"Think of it, Batman. To never again walk on a summer's day with the hot wind in your face and a warm hand to hold. Oh yes, I'd kill for that!" If that line doesn't make this episode, heck, the entire show, one of the G.O.A.T.s of the DCAU, then I don't know what is.
@@JeremyBelpoisX It's not just the line itself, either. Freeze (played brilliantly by Michael Ansara) delivers that line with such pathos despite his emotionally stunted state that it really just drives home the kind of person he's now become. Contrasted with the emotion he expressed in the video (which was a brilliant way of explaining what happened without resorting to flashblack) that in two short scenes we can see the entire breadth of who Freeze was, and who he is, now. It's absolutely brilliant storytelling and delivery.
On a very similar note, my favorite Mr. Freeze story is that in Batman Beyond. Why? Freeze’s tragic character melds nicely with Terry’s naïveté. Freeze has a chance for redemption (via Derek Powers and his associate), and Terry is routing for Freeze. Bruce, however, has serious doubts that it will last. I feel like Terry’s disappointment is palpable when Bruce turns out to be right. Freeze is betrayed by Powers, who tries to kill him, and he reverts to his old vengeful habits. It’s up to Terry (as Batman) to stop Freeze’s rampage. This gives us one of my favorite Mr. Freeze quotes. Mr. Freeze has set up a reaction to bring down the entire Wayne-Powers building around himself. Terry tells Freeze that he will die, to which Freeze replies “Believe me, you’re the only one who cares.” I feel THIS episode better highlights how deeply Mr. Freeze wants to heal.
You know, if I could make another scene for Batman/Mr Freeze: Subzero, it would be an opening credit scene where we in just 2-3 minutes, we get Victor's backstory. From how he became a scientist, to him being underappreciated at times (as Freeze mentions that people have always treated him differently), until he meets Nora, to them going on a date (maybe have them go ice skating and it's snowing, giving off a vibe similar to Victor's music box/snow globe), to them having their moments, to Victor taking Nora to the beach and proposes to her and they share their first kiss (symbolizing Freeze's quote on never walking a summer day again). And this all is shown in a montage, with the music (which when listening to Freeze's theme, has some Edward Scissorhands vibes), and no dialogue, kind of like a mini-short film.
Ace: "I am dying very soon?" Batman: "Yes, I'm sorry." Ace: "Would you stay with me? I am scared." Batman: *sits down with Ace and holds her hand until she passes*
I like how my dad said... "The reason why batman has good villains is because they reflect his character in a way." Its a good template for making villains too.
Yea showing what he potentially could’ve been if additional circumstances were also different, like him being a more lower in the class level, or not having Alfred to keep him sane, and other things.
What? Batman is the most one--dimensional character in comic history. "Boo hoo my parents are dead" isn't interesting or motivating. Yeah nobody but you has ever lost their parents, Bruce. Literally the only additional facet of 'depth' that comes out of that is the fruity obsession with never killing anyway because "boo hoo i'Ll Be A mOnStEr JuSt LiKe ThEm", which is something only shitlib communists think is real.
Except Batman is a one-dimensional, crap character who has literally no arcs despite all the fake forced characterization. "Should I quit?" is literallly always answered "no" and he never quits and he'll be around for another century doing stupid batman shit, so how is that a character dimension when the answer will literally always be "no" forever? He will always be whining about his parents, not actually stopping any crime, and fighting the same villains, forever, until maybe some day a major world catastrophe erases this trash from history forever.
@@fnhatic6694 i think you're missing the point but I can list down some examples. Secret identity or different personas - Two face. Wealth or privilege - Penguin Physical prowess - Bane Isolation or repress emotions - Mr. Freeze Detective skills and intellect - Riddler Activism or change - poison Ivy (or charm, I'm actually not sure about her tbh) Selflessness - Catwoman _Batman does this out of others unlike her, its only for her own_ Embracing or accepting fear - Scare Crow _Overcoming fear of bats and literally becoming batman_ Facade or acting - Clayface _Bruce Wayne is just an act to avoid suspicion_ Outcast and indifference - Killer Croc (dysfunctional or deviant to societal norms) _Batman is a vigilante thats still not acceptable for society_ Corruption of the powerful/Obsession to the cause - Ras Al Gul _Batman wants to make the city better, unlike him, they will purge and renew the city. He can also be obsession since he only care about his goal, to the point that he'll make himself immortal, similar to batmans crusade preventing him to pay attention to others_ And ofcourse, Justice or equality to the system - Joker _Complete Chaos or nihilism to the society_ Each of the villains highly contrast batmans characteristics but it also includes his motives. And not only that each villain is an abuse or even the bastardization of it. Yes he can be one dimensional but this is regarding his villains, which also what the show did, they add more depth to the villains to also elevate batman and even his flaws.
Every time I hear Mr. Freeze say "believe me, you're the only one who cares" in Batman Beyond, I start to get teary eyed. That line always gets to me. Mr. Freeze is another example of justice failing.
Mr Freeze wasn't interested in justice. He wanted revenge. That was the flaw in his character he couldn't get past. Had he not stole and injured others to get Boyle, had he just come forward as a witness to his crimes, then he may have seen justice done. He chose the darker path.
@@bogey780 Would he have been able to get justice though? The incident was already covered up and all the evidence was held by the company. The evidence would never have seen the light of day where it not for Batman illegally rifling through company files and then handing it to the press.
@@ENiceGeo Once Batman got involved, I'd say so. He was given an out by him but declined. It's one of the aspects I like about this version of Batman. He gives some criminals who have a grievance or specific flaws a chance to get out. As Wayne, he helped Harvey Dent get psychotherapy and facial reconstruction surgery. I recall in another episode, he helps out a doctor who was friends with his father after he turns on the mob. That bit of character shows Batman isn't focused on vengeance. He is more about righteousness and protecting/helping the innocent. Which fits in with his response to his parents' murder. When he found out Freeze wasn't a crook doing it for wealth or just to hurt innocents, he genuinely would have helped Freeze take down Boyle. Mr Freeze, fixated on revenge, couldn't accept it and his own callousness is why Batman had to stop him moreso than expose Boyle.
"Snow is beautiful, don't you think? Clean, uncompromising... like the swift hand of vengeance." Man, this level of dialogue sounds too good for a kid's cartoon.
@@bryanmerel and it didn't treat its audience of young people as idiotic kids. They would pull you in on the story and the characters enough that if they said something that went over your head you would actually seek out understanding and get there _on your own_ instead of having it fed to you because "you're too stupid to figure it out and there can't be any ambiguity about what I'm saying".
They didn't treat their audience like idiots. Just told great stories. I grew up with this show and I recognized how good it was even then. I own it in my library today.
This is what the sometimes subtle, but significance between apathy and wounded. Sometimes wounds can be so deep that all you feel is the wound. In time, if the wound is all someone feels, it blots out everything else. It's true of any single sensation. If all you feel is one sensation to an intensity beyond toleration, often a human body will try to shut down all sensory input to survive. So consider this irony -- Mr. Freeze is a man so wound he believes he has no emotions, when in reality he may be the embodiment OF raw emotion.
@@gryffen9608 in psychology if somebody feels an extreme emotion it feels like a lake of emotion, a feeling of nothingness but still a terrible feeling, the feeling is so strong the brain can't really comprehend it.
His whole look is in line with the characterization. Especially in the thick, dark lines of the show. A man entirely of cold blue, black, grey, and purple. The colors of ice and frostbite. But with striking glowing red eyes. Evidence of the passion and burning desire that still lives within that frozen exterior. I also like the soup bit. Alfred's compassion is what kept Batman from becoming cold and walking down the same path as Freeze. In the end that compassion and humanity that was given to him by Alfred (and other loved ones) is the weapon / strength needed to defeat his villains.
Somehow, they reinvented a villain without making him an edge lord or changing his sexuality. It is a lost art that might as well be looked at by the writers of today as pure witchcraft.
They humanized him and gave him a wound anyone could relate to thus making him more complex than some infantile socio-political statement with as much thought behind it as where your bubble gum wrapper ends up.
@@RasmusVJS Changing an established character to suit a political stance in which the character is no longer a character lack anything close to three dimensions save for the one trait that was injected for the political goal or belief. You know making a character now female for no other reason than "inclusion and diversity" or race swapping them for no other reason or making a character gay. Skin color, gender and whom you find sexy are not character traits nor do they define a character after all. This has been the trend for far too long these days and it's lazy writing and pathetic attempts by companies to make their products appeal in a more "modern" way. If you need superman to be black, gay or the opposite gender before you can see them as a hero then it's you who has the issue.
@@taliawtf6944 Ok. What's a concrete example, because I conceptually agree that "replacing character by instead making them a minority" is a bad philosophy, but 1. Having a character be gay, black or female doesn't mean they can't have character outside of that, and 2. I can't currently think of a mainstream example of this happening.
You know, when you think about it, that song actually does a job of showcasing Robby Rotten's character, motivations and personality. 1) His motivation is to defeat the Hero 2) His method is traps, deception and cunning 3) He's smart enough to actually do the job, demonstrating his threat level 4) He enjoys being a villain, showing his personality
Another layer of analysis is the malignant application of both hot _and_ cold. Ferris Boyle turns _off_ the freezing machines keeping Nora alive, thus raising the temperature. Even his _name_ sounds like "Boil", or the act of superheating water. To most people, even Batman, extreme cold is a malignant force, but to Nora (and later Victor himself), it's literally life support. It's not about simply _being_ warm or cold, but it's how you _use_ each temperature. This even gets explored further in Batman Beyond, where Mr. Freeze returns (cloning shenanigans), and Batman (now Terry McGinnis) has to stop the collateral damage of the fight between Mr. Freeze and Terry's own alpha rogue, the nuclear-powered Blight (who cloned Freeze in the first place to test whether cloning could reverse _his own_ genetic mutation). As you can imagine, both villains hard-counter one another, and Batman has to step in to stop their fight from getting out of hand. Once more Mr. Freeze is out for revenge against the heat-coded villain for ordering his chief scientist (whom Freeze had actually fallen in love with over the course of the episode) to dispose of him when it became obvious that the cloning wouldn't work. On the bat-side, while Terry is sympathetic to Mr. Freeze and his apparent desire to make up for his past (which Freeze makes good on in both small and large ways), Bruce cynically assumes that there's no way Mr. Freeze could ever change. As Bruce states at the end of the episode: "we were _both_ right." Unsurprisingly, this is considered one of Batman Beyond's best episodes. (EDIT: Including among these very commentators, as it turns out...)
It's interesting how they got it so right. Freeze isn't an evil man. He's more morally deficient. Like most men who do bad things he rationalizes what he favors. He can't stop being that man. That doesn't preclude him from doing good. It's just not something he strives to be. He can't be a hero. And given power... he'll be the villain. In my opinion.
I commented elsewhere that it was a bit risky the decisions made to modulate the voice and have him read it with a flat affect but it paid off. He nailed the character.
The secret. The secret is Paul Dini. I feel like he's one of the few writers who, not only excels at storytelling, but understands the characters he's writing.
@@randomnerd3402 They dropped the ball on that. Why would WB not ask for one of their best writers to keep making projects for them? At least they still have Bruce Timm.
Tragic Villain are the best. Unlike other Villains where you cheer for their defeat, effective tragic Villain, though you still wish for the hero to succeed, the defeat of the tragic Villain will leave you feeling Conflicted at the end of the story, thinking what could have been. Inadvertently making the Villain far more memorable.
Thinking back to it, southpaw laughing so hard about the soup scene is super frustrating. frozen glass (especially sub zero) being rapidly heated causes cracks and can break it. Now imagine an absolute zero glass being heated to what was probably about 165 degrees Fahrenheit would absolute break the glass. Him going “hurr durr the glass can take punches from Batman but soup breaks it.” Was aggravating
Mister Freeze was always one of my favorite villains from the WB animated Batman series. As you masterfully detailed, he is a villain who you can not help but sympathize with, even as you know he must be taken down. What is interesting is, I also always like Harley Quinn as she was portrayed in the animated series because she was a bit of an anomaly. More tragic than evil, you can't help but wonder how she manages to survive in the company she keeps. To me, turning Harley into a self actualized bad ass, as the movies have tried to do, does not improve her but actually destroys the character. She has gone from being a tragic, broken soul to a merciless murderer with fighting skills she never had the discipline or interest to acquire. She has become the female Joker, with one quarter the brains and ten times the fighting skill.
I somewhat agree. I mean, the self-actualized badass? Yeah, that's not Harley Quinn. That's Mercy Graves. Don't try to force Harley Quinn to be Mercy Graves. It doesn't work. That being said, I do think having Harley eventually managing to break away from the Joker is a perfectly valid path for her to take. It isn't the one she took in the DCAU, at least not until Joker died, but in a different continuity, it could work. But that's just step one. If you're going to write Harley growing as a person enough to break away from the Joker, at some point she has to create her own identity. If Harley is to break away from the Joker for good, she has to stop being Harley Quinn, either intentionally on the writer's part or not. Otherwise, she loses the tragedy that makes her a grey character, and affirms that yes, she really is the evil madwoman she seems to be at first glance.
"Sorry. Guess you were right about Freeze after all." "...We both were." - Terry and Bruce, a student and a mentor, each conceding that the other has a point about a villain and a broken man.
Silly ice puns aside, I'm really digging all these excellent analysis you're giving us, LD! Instead of joining the crowd who chant "lol chicken soup", you're willing to show the essence of what made this episode so good, and do a valid comparison to other stories that follow a similar structure. This is easily the single best example of why Heart of Ice is such a great episode.
The clay face episodes are also really good. They aren’t just great for their stories but also had the best animation of the series with TMS really showing off what they could do
the only thing wrong with Feat of Clay part 2 was the ending. When Teddy wistfully says goodbye to Matt/Clayface in absentia, we get the villainous chuckle on the woman in the background, revealing that she's the surviving Clayface. This is fine, except that it reinforces villainy over humanity. Had the woman turned and said goodbye herself we'd see that Clayface is still human inside and will miss his friend
This was arguably my favorite and most beautiful episode of the series that they ever did. It was enough to even retcon a Silver Age mock villain into a serious threat for Batman. Too bad DC is now a shadow of it's former glory catering to woke bullshit.
Another bit of commentary on Killer Croc is his deformity forced him out of society but his motivation isn't to be accepted back into society. He wants power. Possibly as power dynamics is all his character knew. That it's better to have power over others than to have their admiration. This was made obvious when he meets a sideshow and was accepted into their community. Yet he still turns around and betrays them over money. Even setting them against Batman, with little concern about them.
This and the Arkham games are entirely why I put waylon up with freeze,joker,clayface,two face and bane as the best Bruce’s roster has to offer Croc in my opinion is a great villain in those two mediums,he’s a boy who grew up told and treated like he was the worst,so he developed a desire to use those traits to become the best,but the way he grew up,the only thing he was good at was being the best at being bad But also the way batman goes about dealing with his enemies is the other half of the reason I love them, For freeze he tries to convince him to let go,appealing to grieving victor freeze inside,who is sadly been frozen over and replaced by mister freeze For joker he tries to reason,and make order of the chaos inside him,only to find the chaos and damage can’t be unraveled As for croc,he tries to appeal to the tortured kid inside Waylon,trying to edge him into being a better man but in the end that kid has been consumed by the croc But what are y’all’s thoughts on croc
@@spacetacos7574 To me Killer Croc seems like a street thug but one whose criminal character was formed by how he was treated due to his appearance, somewhat similar to Tim Burton's version of the Penguin.
@@spacetacos7574 Croc is a character I want to like but there feels like too much overlap with my man Bane for me to really like him. One would think him being so similar to my favourite Batman villain and being a cool AF crocodile man (I never outgrew my reptile fan phase as a kid) would make like him but instead the comparison just makes him come off as lacking. I don't dislike the character I just feel like I don't like him as much as I should. I do realize that lack of exposure to good storylines with him may be the problem though so if any fans have recommendations I'll consider adding them to my backlog.
One of my favorite scenes was when an old scientist told Freeze he wanted to be like him so he could live for far longer. Freeze then grabs him and angrily states: "You want to live like this? Abandoned and alone? A prisoner in a world you can see, but never touch? Old and infirm as you are, I'd trade a thousand of my frozen years for your worst day."
BTAS is such a Treasure of a series, this made Mr. Freeze an wonderful Tragic Villain to remember. He's also become an favorite to some because of his pain and rage despite his motifs. A cold calculating man with a burning rage an desire for revenge.
I didn't realize how lucky I was that my childhood Saturday morning cartoons were so well written. So much of what kids watch today is so BAD... If you have never seen something beautiful as a kid, never heard a coherent story, how will you recognize it as an adult?
The path to hell, is paved with good intentions" Great break down/ analyses. These videos help me to learn more and more about writing. Keep up the good work.
One of the best allusions to this was someone going to hell and immidiately coming across the 'Good Intentions' paving company where they were working on a road.
Something I love about Josuke (part 4) is that he's given a role as a healer. Not only to physical injuries but to mental wounds of the broken villains in his home town Morioh.
I have to give Paul Dini credit. That man is defiantly one of the best modern artists in the world of writing. Great analysis on my all time favorite villain in the Batman lore. By the way never going to get tired of you deconstructing bad writing of characters like Mary Sues and comparing them to actual well written characters. Keep up the good work.
I'd love to see you break down the final episode where Mr. Freeze appears (in continuity) from Batman Beyond. It would be a great companion peice to this, showing how to use a villain long absent and send them out on a high note. "Believe me Batman, you're the only one who cares." (paraphrased) sticks in my mind as why Mr. Freeze is a great villain.
When he begs for vengeance while choking on warm air, the way he holds his hand toward Boyle... That desperation to harm someone, like its the only air he can breathe... That struck me right to my core.
As a kid, I always thought about this episode being written after the writers found out about frostbite. Where being exposed to extreme cold can induce a sense of burning. In this case where Dr. Fries was exposed to the extreme cold of Boyle's callousness giving rise to the burning hatred driving the villian throughout the episode.
@@LiteratureDevil you mean the video about whether Superman is relevant today? Yea, I saw it Really liked your analysis But I’m kinda curious to see how you’d use such a hero to dissect heroes in general life you did with dr freeze
Batman has always been a hero defined by compassion. Its what makes characters like Damian Wayne and Jason Todd work so well with him. And You did a fantastic job mister Devil. I would love to hear your thoughts on Mr. Freeze's final appearance in Batman Beyond. I always thought that was a really special episode as well.
I absolutely love a tragic villain, and this has always been my favorite episode. Michael Ansara absolutely kills the role, and I doubt he will be topped for many years. I personally love the dichotomy of Freeze, thinking he’s beyond emotion because of his trauma, while being driven love and revenge. So good!
RU-vid happened to suggest your video to me randomly, I have to say I am super glad it did. I loved the Animated Series when I was younger and Freeze and Harley always stood out to me. Thanks for posting this, it was an excellent video and I have a lot to think on now. Definitely subscribing!
Even the voice fit the character so well. Cold as ice. In Batman Beyond when they covered Mr Freeze again, he's cloned but it's a failure, and when he puts on the old suit, he's back to the frozen voice. Good writing.
I wished Marvel would follow this method for their underutilized villains. •Scorpion (a personal vendetta against Spider-Man instead of J.J) •Mad Man (sheer jealousy of Bruce Banner) •Moonstone (the destructive manipulator) •The Living Laser (No one can touch me!) •Tyrant (The forgotten herald of Galactus) •Hank Pym (Yellowjacket would make a really good villain) •Graviton (a threat to S.H.I.E.L.D) •Madame Masque (Stark’s arch-lover)
Micheal Keaton's Vulture is a blue collar man who got fucked over by the system. He played by the rules, and they screwed him for it. So now he does things his way.
That episode also showed a difference between the young and old Bruce. He lost his empathy toward Mr.Freeze in his older years, whereas the young Terry showed empathy towards Mr.Freeze.
@@ENiceGeo Yeah, it showed us why Batman ultimately ended up where he was at the start of the series: a lone, bitter old man indifferent to the suffering going on in the city he once defended. It also showed us why Terry was the right person to take up the mantle, he's one of the few who _would_ care.
I think a good example of this episode's staying power is the fact Freeze was actually dead at the time in the comics. He was resurrected by DC after this episode and rose to a recurring A-List rogue.
There is some good symbolism in Mr.Freeze's character design. All cool colors like blue, grey, black. Except his eyes (or goggles), which are red. It is like his vision is blinded by bloody revenge, like that is his only human desire left. He lets his anger cloud his vision, and becomes cold to the rest of the world. His design is basically showing that he only contains a tiny bit of his human side, and it is painful and rage filled. The rest is a cold shadow, a sad villain who lost so much. Very much a good character design.
God, most of this channel's videos are in my favorites. Such good analysis of stories, their structure, their individual elements, and great advice on how to mix everything together in a compelling manner. As a would-be writer myself, I think this is one of my favorite channels.
From "A World of Gothic Horror: The Problem With Modern Batman Stories" by In praise of shadows. "Each of them (villans) are funhouse mirror representation of a diffrent aspect of his (Batman) personality. [...] to Mr Freeze acting as an example of somebody who isn't capable of moving on after losing a family. Each of his older villans are constant reminder of his inner demons and personal tragedies. And how easily he could become evil from any given aspect of his personality. Batman is the capacity of great evil that is used for good. And the villans are each individual parodies of an aspect of that ..." Villain Succumbs Hero Overcomes "Can A Racist Character Be Heroic?" by Literature Devil
Thanks for the great video, LD! I would like to express one thought - figuratively speaking, Bruce Wayne died then in Crime Alley with his parents. After that night, he's just a mask for Batman. The empty-headed rich man does not arouse suspicion and goes into places where real criminals with ice hearts can be found (like Boyle, for example). In addition, Wayne helps people - opens schools, hospitals, orphanages and - importantly - provides jobs, recruiting even ex-criminals.
I still love that Mr. Freeze got a bittersweet ending in the Batman Arkham games. Him and his wife reunited and both spending time together as they both pass away because of their respective conditions.
Dangit, even breaking him down like this, you still feel for Mr. Freeze. I mean, I can see him and Batman coming to an agreement of some sort, for Wayne Enterprises to boost Victor's work on Bruce's dime directly. At the same time, I can't help but think sidelong to something like Force Awakens, and I'm struggling to remember Rey's first line... all I'm getting is twenty minutes of silence? Which actually reflects her character fairly well...?
This explaines why Nox, the first Villain in the series Wakfu is such a great antagonist. Noximillian was a clock maker. He had a loving family that was taken from him. Whispers he heard from a strange glowing cube fueled him with determination to go against the will of the gods and do what no one managed to do before. He wanted to change the past. Temporal magic was in theory capable of doing just that, but the amount of rew energy required to do that was just impossible for one man or even an entire nation to accumulate. The chance to make his wound go away let him to forsake his sanity to believe in his chance to do the impossible and drove him to annihilate anything in his path in order to collect the Wakfu (essence of life and chaos) he would need for a chance to change the flow of time. I'm pretty sure anyone who saw the show will remember one specific line of his, which perfectly describes the embers of sanity left in Nox's utter insanity: "The end of the world? Does it really matter anymore? If I succeed, no-one will care because the world will have begun again. If I fail, I don’t care whether this world survives or not."
That was one of the best and most memorable episodes of any medium I've ever read or watched. You can understand Freeze and see his POV. He's as focused as a laser. He's got no interest in hurting people just to hurt them like Joker. He's not out for power and prestige like Penguin. He wants revenge. Period. I can understand Victor. He's Batman turned cold.
Batman's got one of the greatest rogues galleries in all of fiction, in no small part because he's a detective. Moreover, he's a detective in a superhero universe, with access to vast resources, super computers, the most state-of-the-art forensics tech there is. Which means the puzzle usually isn't "how did they do it", but "why". He gets inside the heads of his targets, learns what motivates and drives them, to predict their objective and next target. The change this episode made to Mr.Freeze's character and motive made him iconic even among other Batman rogues.
Southpaw is very .... special. I have the distinct suspicion I could show him the Ghent screens and he'd say something like "there's too many panels" as a critique.
m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nDxeA1xu2yU.html He goes in depth on Heart of Ice on this stream, but in short he found most episodes of Batman the Animated series to be overrated/poorly written in terms of consistent writing, and among them he lists some of the acclaimed episodes like Heart of Ice or Almost Got Em. I believe among the episodes he liked he listed stuff like Perchance to Dream.
@@michaeldorsey9231 I'm not sure I believe him but he could very well be correct. I haven't watched his Spiderman 2 video yet but some of the points he's made on streams have made my opinion of it change a bit.
It's pretty fun. Characters are a lot more than their surface traits, identities, or sexuality. They're very human and they share in the human experience which is why a writer in Japan can still write characters and stories that appeal to a man in America.
@@LiteratureDevil Here in Brazil, japanese stories and character are well know too. As I see, the Art of storytelling is dying in the west, it is becoming a kind of fast food entertainment, need to feat a checklist and be fast developed, don't given a chance to mature an idea. And here on west people have a fear of innovation and risks, because of the new norms tyranny, make us go back to find inspiration to the classics
Hey, if you want to teach writers what NOT to do, then be willing to show them examples of what they SHOULD do. I think this is one more reason why SJW characters fail miserably: They aren't permitted to have that core wound; without that wound, how can the reader ever hope to relate, let alone sympathize with them?
Even to this day I feel for this version of Mr. Freeze. He reminds me of the pain that comes from lost and how one wounded longs to heal.bthabks for this
Probably the episode of Batman the animated series I love and remember the most. (I do like the Clayface ones too.) and you know who could also fit the mold of tragic villain who never really changed or got better even by the end? Azula.
@@LiteratureDevil guess I sorta wish she could change completely for the better, more than almost any other villain, but I guess that may never happen…
@@jacobshore5115 In the follow-up comics she does change to some extent. She doesn't grow into a good person, not even close, but she does discard a good deal of her arrogance, and by the end starts to show indications that she *might* change for the better in the future. Whether it sticks is up to speculation.
at the end of the day its Batmans diverse rogues gallery that helps elevate him above all others. we have variety of motivation and backstory to create unique stories to read, watch and enjoy.
Dude, I've been telling people about the impirtance of plot structure, character, and theme recently, so it's cool to see someone agree and have reasons behind it!
additional comment, one of the most magical things this episode did came up in The Batman. For someone like me, who only knew of Mr. Freeze from Batman: The Animated Series previously, it made the more traditional villain portrayal they gave him then stand out more.
This...really tackles some things I honestly couldn't make sense of when it came to writing a villain in a fanfiction I've held off writing again for years now. I knew the details of his tragedy...but I didn't know how to tie them all together and sort them correctly. This definitely helped me to understand how to go about this and tackle some of the worldbuilding I struggled with for so long until now.
I also like that one bit from the comics (not sure which one), where Freeze breaks out of Arkham and makes it snow on Christmas. Batman at first thinks he's up tp no good, but finds him at Nora's gravestone commenting on how she loved the snow at Christmastime, and instead of stopping him, Batman let's Freeze mourn before quietly taking him back to Arkham. Just a little bit of kindness that I think shows a lot.
What I loved about this series is how it shows Batman's compassion: trying to get help for Harley because he recognizes the difference between a criminal and someone struggling with mental issues or sitting with Ace until it's her time. An aspect all live action adaptations seem to disregard.
I love villains. A good villain contrasts a good hero and only makes both better. How one held onto their humanity and how the other lost it. Villains are redeemable, it’s appealing to their humanity in the face of their pain and giving them the one they lost that costs nothing for us to give.
And this is why BTAS is one of my favorite cartoons of all time. They gave real nuance and empathy towards the villains. They took Mr. Freeze, a guy who drives around in an ice cream truck and really make you feel for him.
What a great analyses👍if they can re-created that glimpse of BTAS excellent writing, monologue, care & love we will definitely got a much more memorable DCU🤐
A man, covered in ice to shield his flaming, broken heart. A man, feigning warmth to hide his icy heart. A dark knight, stepping in to protect them from each other and themselves. Heart of Ice is so good.
You know, I've never seen Mr. Freeze as a villain. For the most part, even his crimes are resource gathering for trying to cure his wife, or diamond dust to literally not die. He even goes out of his way to make sure his attacks are less than lethal and solely to buy him time to escape while the heroes are busy defrosting people.
Amazing work. B:TAS has interesting variety in villains. Aside from the tragic villains you mention (and are so popular), you have Batman's opposite in the Joker - what Batman is, the Joker is not. The Joker seems to exist to challenge Batman - his personality is secondary. Then you have Ra's Al Ghul - the visionary villain. Ra's believes firmly that he is the hero and is doing what is right for the world. He's not broken, he's just completely wrong. You can see he has a point, but his solution is far worse than problem. (Poison Ivy has some of this as well) Last but not least, you have more classic villains like Bane or various mafia bosses. Fundamentally, they are sane and act on reasonable motivations like becoming rich and powerful. It's useful to have them simply to provide a contrast to the tragic villains.
I especially loved that they included the Silver Age ice puns in its speech, but made Mr. Freeze completely emotionless on delivery. The contrast of ultra-corny puns that should make you laugh-gag with the completely toneless delivery actually makes him MORE sinister, helping to highlight that even child-like jokes have no effect on his cold, dead heart, and could perhaps even be part of his broken attempt to keep his humanity, with jokes being the only vestige of "warmth" that was left to him at the end causing him to cling to them subconsciously long after they'd stopped working to make him smile. Compare this to Mr. Freeze from the live theatrical movie, where he seemed to be delighting in the puns themselves (admittedly as a form of bitter self-deprecation, but that's not how it comes off first-watch), causing the movie to have a surreal atmosphere that simply doesn't have any real gravity to anything - Mr. Freeze may as well have no background at all for what we care about it, back to d-list Rogue status from the Silver Age.
I'd love to hear your take on Bondrewd from Made in Abyss. He's one of the best villains i've ever seen, yet i think his character is somehwere in between a tragic villain like Mr. Freeze and manipulative mastermind like the Joker or Moriaty. would be realy interesting to see you analyze him. ^^
I always thought I was unique in my enjoyment of this episode. Watched it so many times as a kid, made Freeze my favorite Batman Villain, and as a kid I rooted for him to reform.
You have to give mad props to Michael Ansara. Nobody could deliver those lines with that level of gravitas. Funny thing is how many Universal actors are in this show. Bob Hastings, Lloyd Bochner, Mari Devon, to name a few. So many guest stars on shows like The Rockford Files lent their voices on this amazing show.
That episode always gave me chills pun intended it was so well writing and mister freeze then and there became one of the most interesting and deep villages of the rouge gallery that for after long enough you started to route for him to win and finally find a cure for nora.
Man I remember this, iconic. The best example of how this change in his character redefined him forever is arguably in the game Batman Arkhamn Games. He is a villain but one we really dont want to fight because he isnt evil, just misguided. Heck we go out of our way to help him (albeit there are personal motives for doing so) in City and Knight because he really he just wants to save him wife. He is a villain, but he isnt a bad person.
2:40 Or rather, what INSPIRATION these villains then took from these writers. Giving them traits that made them human. There's actually a twist on that with Darkseid. In one version of his backstory, he killed Kalibak's mother himself, when Darkseid realized Darkseid was OPENING UP TO HER!
One line can summarize characters like mr. Freeze; "hurt people hurt people ". Mr. Freeze was a deeply hurt man who did the only thing he could think of, which was lash out against the person who made him, and he did it in such a way that he caused lasting damage to Boyle. Now he could have gone the more civilised route and sued him, however men like Boyle most likely have elements of the law and courts in their pocket, so Freeze couldn't attack him civilly. No he had to lash out in a way that only men like Boyle understand, power, and the willingness to use that power to hurt people which is what happens in the episode.
One of the few good things about the Batman & Robin movie was the ending. Bruce (as Bruce, not Batman) arranges for Nora Fries' chamber to be sent to Arkham so Fries can be with her. Plus, he even promises to help fund further research since Fries has become the best expert on a rare disease and his cause is worthy if not the method.
