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Wow, dude was REALLY LUCKY at 13:18 , caster thought it was lethal, but he only had one charge of the doomhammer, that topdeck lightning bolt actually gave him lethal. Surprising they didn't notice this.
If you're not already watching them Six Gamers has a lore of the cards series. The series has filled up the massive toast sized lore hole left in my heart.
I was always kind of bewildered over how powerful the Old Gods seemed compared to previous end-game legendaries, but i never expected Yogg-Saron to be the best one. Yogg is interesting in his rng, because at least with Sylvanas or Ragnaros or good ol' Nat Pagle you could say that the randomness evens out over time and they will give a steady amount of wanted and unwanted outcomes. But Yogg has soo many possibilities and such an astounding variety of outcomes. Blizzard is obviously ok with rng in general, but i wonder if they ever realized Yogg would also be as powerful as he is.
I would've too, you're winning big and then a guy plays Yogg and destroys your board to go on and win next turn, leaving you out of a big championship.
TheLink 99 Yugioh has no rotation system so that's why they have to ban cards and they also have real cards so they can't nerf / buff them ^^ Actually Yogg is just too strong but i don't want that card to be nerf because it's a card made for fun, so just wait 1 year and get your tournaments with 2 aggros fighting each other in the face ^^
Yogg is so broken he played a card that wasn't even legal in the tournament he was played in! While these are funny to watch, they also illustrate how utterly terrible Yogg's existence is for competitive play.
People complain that Yogg Saaron oiis luck based, but Hearthstone has never been totally luck based : A lot of cards are random, and just the mulligan and the draw of cards ... 75% skill, 25% of luck !
But that's true for every card game my friend, tell me one card game where there's absolutely 0 RNG involved, there isn't one because it's impossible, so going from your logic, every card game is bad because there's RNG involved in drawing cards But I don't know many card games with cards like Yogg so yeah
EvryDamnDay sure the games have become faster than it used to be (like 2006-2008) but most of the games do go on for more than 6 turns(which is comparable to 10-12 turns in hearthstone
Sure Yogg might be an unfitting card in the tournaments because of his "randomfactor" but honestly I like it. It gives hope and makes way for some insane entertaining comebacks, and that's what the competitive scene is about: being entertaining.
really, if it entertains you more to watch a world-qualifier coin-flip game than to watch a game that's decided based on player skill, I think blizzard has messed up on hearthstone. It takes a lot of preparation and money to put players there and the fact that the game is not even decided by their skill is really really sad.
Skill? Every Cardgame has some RNG in it. Has nothing to do with Skill if you are unlucky with your draws lol. Cardgames are RNG. And Yogg is Master of RNG. It can win you the Game or Blow up your own face. The USE of said Cards is the only Skillbased thing a Cardgame can offer.
even though it is loaded with rng before yogg the rng was way more healthier. it wasnt fully healthy because of knife juggler, but your opponent winning for doing absolutely nothing the whole game is worse than a few lucky juggles. the game does have alot of rng but yogg pushes this shit way over the edge and should absolutely be banned in tournaments because it rewards the player for doing nothing except using shitty spells.
One of the only legendaries that I've willingly made golden. Unfortunate he shifted out, but now he's coming back. So, we'll see if he has the same presence as he did before.
I was thinking the same thing. When I saw how nervous these guys were over the Yogg plays flashing themselves, and then considering how much money is on the line, it is like all the bells and whistles of that big streak at the gambling house.
This is actually kind of embarassing to watch. Yogg-Saron is single handedly killing Hearthstone for me right now because every game it's played in makes that game feel completely arbitrary. This is the terrible kind of RNG that I wish Hearthstone had less of.
Yogg is not a coin flip, it chooses spells randomly from the entire catalog of Hearthstone. So if you're losing every time someone plays a Yogg, you're suffering from some lousy luck.
no, it's not a coin flip, it's a DnD player's dice collection thrown in a blender to determine the game. neither player has any control over the outcome, and 7ish times out of 10 it *will* determine the game. this, and cards like this are why I haven't really played HS since WotG came out. and I thought the shredder meta was toxic. good grief.
yog is fun. the fact competitive players feel comfortable even putting it in their deck speaks more to the state of the game than the card itself. if the game itself was more consistent a card that could just as easily kill you or do nothing wouldn't even be played. people are angry that yog helped win a couple games. it's literally a 10 mana card. it's supposed to be powerful, and yog isn't even consistently that. people are so hellbent on hating yog that they'll completely ignore the fact that in game 1 it beat a zoo deck. which is consistently cancer. tldr: yog isn't the problem. it's the state of the game as a whole. also hearthstone isn't a competitive game anyway. not every game has to be. it's not even a negative
I agree with that. but I find early game rng swings way more problematic like knife juggler, flamewaker, tuskar, flame juggler, etc. also so many of the spells have become completely random as well. again not an issue with yog. I think yog itself is an absolute blast. but the games next expansion needs to be more consistent to start lessening the prominence of rng ( not remove it) just like how gvg was basically rng the expac. we need an expac that is very rng lite. imo
You miss the crux of the argument. In fact, most competitive players DO NOT feel comfortable with putting Yogg in and are, in fact, almost forced into doing it because it is such a ridiculous card. That's why there are a lot of pro players are now pushing for card bans for competitive. There are literally no other cards that can cause a swing from certain-loss to certain-win. Name me a 10 mana card that swings you as hard as Yogg? For 10 mana it plays x amount of rnd-mana spells which is worth as an aggregate a whole fucking lot more than 10 mana. Your argument about it being a 10 mana card and therefore an alright state of 'powerful' is pretty invalid. You can be outplayed the whole game and win only because of Yogg RNG. You can't counter Yogg when it's played and the only realistic option to counter Yogg is to win before it's played, i.e. aggro decks, the other cancer of card games. Zoo decks are fine to play against. That deck has to trade and maintain board control. What people REALLY have a problem with are FACE decks - Shaman and pre-Whispers Hunter. What's the common factor between these decks and Yogg? They're both uninteractive. You know that even the best players with the highest win% on ladder in the world now struggle to qualify for PRELIMINARIES in tournaments because the win% probability is so low? Viewer ratings for HS games are dropping and fewer higher ranked players actually even bother to qualify for tournaments. Someone did the maths that removing Yogg (and other similar RNG swing cards) would improve chances to win by almost 3 times as much (check the TempoStorm site for the article). Yogg IS the Hearthstone problem personified as a card. Some RNG is good to keep the game interesting (take Sylvanas, for example), but too much RNG just makes the game uninteresting because it's uninteractive. You aren't doing anything. tl;dr: Yogg has huge swings that renders all the skilled play before it down to a coin flip and people hate uninteractive shit.
Totally agree with you, how many games i lost in ladder, outplaying the opponent from turn 1 to 9, even with arcane "BS" giant, then Dr10 turn, man, equality consecration, flame strike, call of the wild etc etc. Really annoying. It doesn't matter what deck you play, zoo, malyrogue, priest resurrect (my ladders decks), if i don't won by turn9, all the moves before (ten turns, that's time and reflexions) are completely worthless, because of yogg. Even if it's not winning the game, Yogg puts the game in kind of neutral position, impossible to counter, unilaterally choose, and that's not fair. Kind of a "Diktat"
VIDEO SUGGESTION: Enter the Coliseum Enter the Coliseum merely says highest attack value. But how does it specifically work when two or more have the same attack value? Does it go in play order? By health? By mana cost? And what then if these are the same. The heirachi between these leaves a lot of possibilities!
So to all the people who don't see the problem with Yogg, allow me to draw a parallel. Say you're watching american football. The entire season, the Giants and the Patriots have had this back and forth, neck and neck series. It all comes down to them at the Superbowl. The players stride out to take the field. They've trained their entire season for this. Countless hours of practice. They crowd around the referees to see who will go first. The coin is tossed, landing heads. It comes over the loudspeakers that the Giants have won the Superbowl. The end. Neither the skill of the Giants or the Patriots mattered. All their preparation, dedication, and years of work have been rendered completely meaningless. The Giants have a hollow win because they didn't actually do anything to affect the outcome, and the Patriots have a bitter defeat because there was absolutely nothing they could do to change the result. And yeah, sure, the coin was shiny. But you've also been robbed of actually watching what you came to see.
I've scored them on the following system: -1 killed the player from a decent position, -0.5 left the player in a significantly worse position, 0 didn't change the board state much or killed player from a position of already being dead on board, +0.25 slightly better board state, +0.5 much better board state, +1 completely saved from lethal or much better game position. Yogg is a 10 drop that requires the deck to be partially built around him so I would expect around +0.4 or +0.5 on average. My average score across the 20 games is +0.4 so Yogg typically gives a great outcome, but no more than you would expect for such an expensive card.
No he was crying because he got knocked out of a chance to win a large part of the $100,000 prize pool, on the back of a fucking stupid card interaction. Yogg is just dumb
Luck based game explains why before Yogg was introduced we saw the same familiar faces and how after he was introduced we see a bunch of randoms no one knows. I guess before Yogg came those same few professional players were just lucky over and over again. No skill at all. Kappa.
the thing is: card draw is essential to cardgames but yogg doesnt even have to play spells from your class. that is just stupid for a competitive environment
Yup. And while we're at it, ban all card games. Too much potential for lucky or unlucky draws. Henceforth, all tournaments are now a judged deck building competition. And Yogg will always be counted as a loss, instead of being a gamble that will sometimes win, sometimes kill you, and most of the time be distinctly mediocre.
What do you define that as though? Would you ban sylvannas? As that can have more than a 50/50 to "win" with her effect. What about ragnaros? You need to define your meaning better.
alright yea, cards that are printed to either dratsically benefit the turn player or fuck them over yogg for example to much rng, i think cards like sylvanas are alright
PLEASE why can't you show us how these games end? The most interesting thing is not the yogg himself but how the games play out after. I really wanted to know if that one guy killed himself with the eye for an eye for example. Would have been much better if you showed the rest of the interesting games.
The video is titled "All Yoggs in the championship". Not "Full championship games footage". Just go find a video that is actually titled "Championship games footage". That's like telling McDonalds that their menu would be better if they put Tacos and Quesadillas on it, when there is a Taco bell next door. Honestly.
No need to go that far. A simple "Game winning Yogg / Not a game winning Yogg" stamp used for transition between clips would've been giving the information quickly without breaking the rythm or giving loads of extra work.
+Evan Huizenga No. You're metaphor is like if the original guy wanted him to put every old god clip in the video. What he's saying is basically going to McDonald's and saying that their burger would be better with ketchup or lettuce on it
It can be fun in constructed, but yogg saron have to be banned. There is already too much Rng in the game, it's killing all the competivity that is left.
yogg is such a bullshit card, it has no counter play and you just drop it when you're losing and hope you get a board clear. should be tournament banned
I agree. Kripparian even said this is why hearthstones ratings are tanking. When "pros" win 5/100 tournaments (1/20) then it really isn't a professional game. It's just RNG. Poker players probably have better odds of winning than hearthstone players.
Ok, what i saw here is this : Won/save the game : 3 Advantage : 9 50/50 : 5 Disadvantage : 1 Lost the game : 2 So, what's a big deal for a 10 mana card, which is supposed ton won the game, like N'zoth or C'thun ? You are a way too focused on the "random" effect, but in fact, there is nothing wrong with yogg.
That card should be banned from tournaments, or at least the big ones, such as World Championships or Qualifiers. I know Hearthstone has a large RNG component to it ... but come on. Stealing games on ladder with a Yogg is one thing. A Thing I am totally fine with. Stealing games in a World Championship Qualifier with a Yogg is just downright cheating and shouldn't be allowed : we're watching these games to see pros play and show their skill, not to see yet another game stolen by a Yogg. In that context it just sickens me.
Tywin Lannister I myself use yogg, and he has killed me more than saved me. There is the chance of pyroblast to your own face. This also counts for all damage-dealing-can-be-used-on-all-characters cards. Yogg is a risk you have to take, since he can(and probably will) kill you. Yogg can also kill you with draw "x" cards if you don't have any cards left, so he is a risk you have to take. I myself don't think he is overpowered and thus disagree with you. So to sum it up real fast, Yogg can also kill your own hero, and I disagree with you since I get killed by my Yogg more than saved.
one time I had game completely won, I was playing freeze mage with yogg, I played it just for the lolz, since I had iceblock I didnt cared much, and had 14 spells on it. I had 3 cards left, that shit draw me like 15 cards.... and I lost with 30hp and a iceblock, because of the fatigue
![[Hearthstone] 20 Yogg-Sarons from the Americas Summer Championship](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
