I wish they would just rework cards instead of straight nerfing them. For example Innervate. They nerfed it to be just a coin, causing it to only see play in decks that needed it for a combo. They could’ve made it “Refresh 2 Mana Crystals”, and then it wouldn’t be able to ramp while still maintaining a relatively stable power level
I'd be less pissed at blizzard if they just actually communicated. Like, just tell us why your nerf mama wyrm now, of why not nerf branching paths now, or why your not hall of gaming some cards, ya know, just please, explain to us why, that we we can ether understand each other better and stop complaining as much, or better formulate our complaints to counter your claims.
Oh hi there. We’re coming to you from the WoW side of things. Blizzard is communicating with us, and they are STILL failing. I would say no communication has one very shallow good thing: you can imagine what good communication looks like.
Wow I wasn't going to call you a shill for the video, but claiming they communicate well proves you've got your mouth welded firmly there diarrhea ridden asshole. I also have to ask, really fans can't know better than a company on what's good/bad for their game? So you must fully support battlefront 2's original lootbox scheme, if not then you're talking out your arse.
I don't know how you can say "Spreading Plague" is druids only defensive card with a straight face. Naturalize, Jasper Spellstone, Ferocious Howl, Swipe, Starfall, and I would honestly count Malfurion the Pestilent as well because it creates taunt minions. The problem that I see with druid is that there doesn't seem to be a clear strategy to beat them. If you go wide on the board, you get hit with spreading plague or starfall or swipe. If you go tall with, let's just say for example, a mountain giant or a lich king or a flamewreathed faceless (4 mana 7/7), then you get hit with naturalize or spellstone. So the next logical step seems to be controlling them. Well you can't do that because all Druids are combo decks. Malygos, Togwaggle, Taunt, Star Aligner if you're in wild. So if you can't out-value them, and you can't aggro them, might I ask what you're intended to do?
@Mike Gray hs has NOT been like that since gatgetzan. Those days playing as control deck vs jade druid was auto lose pretty much. This continoued with un goro (playing as control deck vs quest rogue was auto lose, but playing as face deck was auto win)
There are still more than a hand full of people that have a problem whit,, the change made forever to a card ,,thing and the fact that people complain for not being able to play whit the og cards blizzard is keeping that in mind reacts acoding to the situation as you want more nerfs other people whould rather that not to happend
a blue moon implies that it is infrequent. but for a while, it has been a very consistent pace: expansion drops, nerf mid expansion, next expansion. Not often, but frequency is consistent. this gives us basically 6 rounds of metas. Now liking that or not is personal preference. I can see why it feels stale fast tho.
More nerfs is inherently problematic because hearthstone is a card game. If you nerf a card, that drastically changes a cards functionality and eliminates the use of said card in particular styles of play. For example, the concept of Patron Warrior back in the day, despite the clear death grip it had on the meta, was a complex, methodical deck and playstyle that it's conceptual existence was definitely worth that level of complexity. By nerfing Commander to a completely different mechanic, they completely eliminated this interesting game play experience, frankly for both the player and the opposition, because some people disliked playing against it. In real world card game, nerfs don't exist not only because the cards are printed physically and cannot be changed, but because most people that play card games irl play the "wild format" more often and really just want to make a fun and interesting deck, and when you nerf cards like this, that removes that level of freedom and complexity.
But Druid decks are mostly combo, which should make them weak to aggro. How in the frick is that possible with the absurd amount of armor Druid gets AND a get out of jail free card for an empty hand/wide enemy board/low health... I mean come on, they use around 20 cards across all archetypes, how is that alright?!
Basically there is only one druid archetype right now: Ramp Druid with WG into Nourrish into UI with BP to temporize and Naturalize and Gem to control board. This archetype is the very best Druid archetype available and allows you to tech your own win con: token, maly, c'thun, ... Imo, the issue is not SP (that just buy you time) but more UI that completely negates the downside of greeding the ramp (loosing card advantage AND tempo)
If you want to solve the issue of meta polarity you don’t solve combo decks by removing their defensive cards; you solve them by making their combo balanced
There aren't enough AOEs in the game. Spreading plage was made because in the ungoro meta only aggro druid was playable. We were still recovering from pirate warrior, everyone hated aggro decks as I (and I think most people) still do. We need more AOEs for all classes, not just some.
@fco.omega if you take out a combo deck’s defensive cards you make the deck even worse against aggro which it was already bad against, and really just as good against control. Little change to the deck’s balance but a further increase in meta polarity is what happens as a result: not what we want
Could make a video about the divergence between the community and the numbers in Hsreplay. For example, Druid is not a big problem on numbers, but the feeling when is playing against is terrible. Great work and continue with the good videos.
I think this is what he missed from the community, ofc druid is not breaking the meta, but just like mana wyrm, combating SP feels disgusting to play against. Small example if you a shaman player you better not press your hero power if they can play plauge or that's a 1/5 taunt for them soon to probably be a 3/5 of 3/7 and that feels particularly horrible.
It is not a problem because every deck is built combat this. Those that can't, e.g. priest with druids armor, just drop to 36% win rate and fade away. It is a lesser kind of evil compared to metas where there is a deck that despite all the hate is unbeatable. Nevertheless, it the current meta pre-and-post nerf is stale, polarised with certain cards that just end games too easily.
Mana Wyrm did need a nerf but not one that deleted it and thus deleted tempo mage. All those hours spent grinding up the dust to craft Aluneth and other cards are _wasted_ because their is no dust refund.
Killing Wyrm opens up design space for a future powerful early game Mage package, too. You can still win games sans Mana Wyrm you just have to work a little bit for them.
You're all answering outside of the concern. I understand that if you spent all your ressources on crafting a deck and suddenly lose it it all, out of nowhere, it's pretty Sickening. Why don't you guys get that ?
@@Yadeehoo I mean, similar things happened with cubelock and controlock when they only decided to nerf lackey and dark pact. Similar things happened with pirate warrior when they nerfed fwa. I don't necessarily agree that 2 mana wyrm is the best way to nerf the card, but I do believe it needed a nerf someway. Who knows, maybe mage gets a good 1 mana minion at the next expansion?
It happened before ? Well that doesn't raise my trust in the company at all. Was mana wyrm the meta breaking card ? Also it's one of the oldest cards. And mage doesn't have any card to replace it. So sure, next patch maybe, still what if you spent all your resources crafting Aluneth and Luna, you go cry until next expansion ? That's pretty terrible not to take that into account. It's also valid for the other cards nerfed. I am the only outraged ?
I was always under the impression that it wasn’t giggling inventor, aviana, and mana wyrm that were problematic currently, but the fact that this meta has enabled the complete shut down of creativity. Can’t play around C’thun priest unless you win before mana 7, Druid can also c’thun if they want, but they can malygos you down just as easy, and rogue, oh what hasn’t been said about quest rogue? Experimentation is just dead... I used to watch day9 for his Hearthstone, but now that I see Magic and it’s complexity, Hearthsone may very well have lost those players that transitioned permanently.
I can recommend tesspionage from Brian Kibler, it is a strong deck with lots of room for tech choices and matchup considerations, should help you with your experimentation itch:) It IS random, but there is a lot you can control within the random shell.
That is always an option, but I feel the battle may be too lost by this point. Magic is going to eat up Hearthstone in many things: Magic has FAR more deck types, far more flexibility, far more interactivity (responding with instants at ANY point in a match), and far more possibilities. Hearthstone had the advantage because Magic hadn't become mainstream yet, but now that it is out of Closed Beta, it's gonna start gaining traction. it's kinda like wow: it is the biggest and best in terms of MMORPGs, but in this case, it was just in closed beta, and now it it is ready to receive the fanbase it deserves. Hearthstone gonna need to shape up to keep up with all that Magic has to offer.
If you’re upset with the lack of creativity, build your own deck, man. Some dude invented Heal Zoo in Witchwood you could build the next sleeper deck. If you think Magic’s better play that have fun. I like using video game cards way more than mtg cards but if you prefer that that’s awesome have fun
While initially I was upset that blizzard nerfed aviana instead of psychmellon, the more I thought about it, the better the need seemed. 1. The aviana kun combo heavily limits design space for future cards 2. When blizzard designed psychmellon they likely intended it to help druids class identity, specifically that of big minions and drawing cards 3. Making aviana 10 mana doesn't completely ruin the combo if someone wants to still use it, it just requires that a heavy control game plan have to be used in order to complete it It's just too bad that at face value the Nerfs look like blizzard scurried to QA after a little bit of outrage
Why not nerf both tho? Does Melon not limit design space as well? I agree with the Aviana change, it was one of the better changes Blizzard has ever made, but they should've ALSO changed Melon or Infestation
Exantius E because melon was only broken in conjunction with aviana. so unless blizzard releases another high cost minion with super synergy to other high cost minion, psychmellon will read 'draw your late game' minions instead of 'draw your game winning combo'. And while it is true that limits design space, all cards do. Ex. Blizzard cant print a card that reads 'summon all four basic totems' because of windshear stormcaller.
I don't understand why you think not nerfing SP is good. Druid legit doesn't lose to anything but Quest Rogue and other druid decks that counter it. and since Quest Rogue no longer has GI it'll have an answer to every deck in the game because you can't go wide tall or anything. That's is neither fair nor fun for the game at all.
No. Just no. You might not like druid but this is flat out wrong. Deathrattle hunter, resurect preist, even warlock, any warlock that runs deamon project. Im not saying whether or not druid is good for the meta, but lying about how good they are does noone any good
SP isn't the reason for this though, it's multiple other factors like it's insane ramping, armor and card draw. You can easily play around SP until you have a viable answer. If you think it's so powerful just run mossy horror in your deck. SP is definitely a powerful card but if you can play around it properly it can hurt druid hard is you don't consider the other actual issues like the 10 mana turn 4.
The different archetypes of Drood get dumstered by quality Zoo play, some Odd Rogue hands, Hunter as a class, Psychic Scream, Shudderwock, etc. Druid is very beatable if you put good cards in your deck and make sure they play well together.
@@Umamaahoe Oh you're even more wrong. I'm a very experienced deathrattle hunter and every time I play against those druids it's more of a 50/50 situation rather than an instant win.
@@Koce13 well, i never said it was a instant win. I was saying its not an unbeatable god tier deck that has no counters. So for that i was simply putting out decks that have an above 50 percent win rate vs combo druids. Besides, the way you say this is like it should be an instant win, which is not what hearthstone wants. Thats the exact reason i hate playing odd warrior, if you play zoo or odd rogue its insta win but if you play druid or priest its an insta lose.
Thank you for having a less doom and gloom response. I don't even know why I continue to read r/hearthstone when it's clear that anyone who doesn't have an apparent hatred for everything Blizzard does isn't welcome. At least r/competitivehs is more level headed about things.
This overwhelming negativity is absurd. Even an innocent thing like the animated trailer for Hallow's End is mocked for not being a high-budget cinematic spectacle from start to finish. Blizzard's fandom is so bizarre at times; some people seem to hate these games so much, but they stay and complain instead of just playing something else.
Aviana was never the problem, the main problem of the star aligner deck was Psymelon where you would draw 4 of your combo pieces. Before boomsday the Aviana Kun combo you would usually have to draw 80% of your deck before you can pull off Aviana/Kun Malygos Druid and it was extremely inconsistent. I just fear for the future of standard because of blizzard not needing the Melon means Druids just going to get better.
I think that your video makes sense, to some extent. I agree with your judgement on the Aviana nerf: it was a good nerf, making the combo harder to pull off while still allowing it to happen with enough time. However, the other two nerfs were off(mana wyrm is now hardly any better than mana addict, and giggling inventor is dead), and there were other cards that definitely deserved attention. I think some very good points that have been made by the community are the ridiculous power of cards like carnivorous cube and prince keleseth. While I don't condone blindly screaming at game developers who perform lots of testing and do lots of preparation for these balance changes, I also don't think that these nerfs were correctly done.
I think people misunderstand the point of Cube and stuff like it. The card is supposed to be powerful in the long games that now run the meta, so of course it’s seeing a ton of play. Prince is more a symptom of every 2 mana card in the game besides Growth and Visions basically being a shit card than just the card being far too good. Having holes in your curve in a minion deck would not be workable for the Zoos of the world if there were real 2 mana cards that might be worth actually putting in a deck.
@@alecwoodard9464 your statement about Cube makes some sense, but in my opinion, a 5 mana 3/6 or 3/5 would be more balanced, given all the ways to trigger cube (play dead, necrium stuff, reckless experimenter, etc.) I also think that there are other good two drops. Vulgar homunculus, radiant elemental, and crackling razormaw are just naming a few. I used keleseth myself though, and my win rates have exploded ever since. He's way too powerful if you draw him, which as mentioned in this video, reduces decision making and makes the game polar.
It's funny because I face a lot of zoolock and recently got Keleseth'd on 2 twice and won both games. May have to do with the fact I run cubelock cancer 🤔
I’d like to point out that with higher polarity in the meta, players are incentivized to buy more cards to get that hot deck that is temporarily ahead in the meta. Whereas in a lowly polarized meta, players can use whatever deck they happen to have, and there will be little reason to go out of their ways to obtain new decks.
I think one thing you missed in this video is how druid just being relevant in the meta makes some archetypes straight up unplayable, archetypes that otherwise could stomp on aggro. Let’s say for instance spreading plague was nerfed and druid all of a sudden just vanished from the meta. No more druids in ranked. All of a sudden 80% of all these uninteractable combo decks are gone and people can play control decks with decent success again. And i can tell you from experience that decks like control paladin and certain builds of control priest can absolutely shit on aggro decks like zoo and odd rogue. If druid didnt exist there wouldn’t be an overwhelming amount of aggro on the ladder because people would actually be able to build more decks to beat aggro and not just insta lose to druid if they queue into it. It wouldn’t be just odd warrior any more to counter aggro
Well ot always works this way. Less combo, more control. More combo, more aggro. If you nerf spreading plague this game would become like witchwood meta being all control.
Every mechathun deck loses to aggro, and shudderwock shaman is tier 4 right now. Just because Druid is gone doesn’t mean these decks will all of a sudden become good
Blizzard may not be idiots but they sure are liars. They said on the "In the works" that the numbers added up and things were okay, and then they go ahead and change things anyway! I will commend them for realizing they were wrong to not nerf things before, but why even say things were okay before? It was just completely meaningless blather and it just makes me be even more skeptical of anything Blizzards says.
Did you watch the video? The explanation is that they were forced by the community into doing it against their will, caused by the threat of the Magic the Gathering thing
HikariKouno21 >make blog post explaining why you feel a way >community makes valid counterarguments >actually take some of them into consideration and nerf some extremely polarized cards >called liars anyway
I give credit to Blizzard for actually listening and responding positively to community feedback after their “In the Works” post. Criticism like this though is what causes game devs to shut out feedback in general. It’s not constructive, and it makes people feel like shit.
Then if they don't want to feel like shit maybe JUST MAYBE they shouldn't print cards with *REDONKULOUS SYNERGY* OR *BULLSHIT POWER* like Ultimate Infestation - Spreading Plague - Patches - Small TIme Bucaneer - Spirit Claws - Keleseth / Shadow Step - Caverns Below / Shadow Step - Raza /Anduin - Lackey / Dark Pact / Voidlord / Guldan - Jade Idol - Mysterious Challenger - Call To Arms - 1 Mana Execute - Grim Patron - *BARNES FUCK THIS CARD* - Oaken Summons - Biology Project - Melon - Aluneth - DK Malfurion - Corridor Creeper - Carnivorous Cube / Play Dead - Rexxar Build A Beast / AoE Poison - Shudderwock / Chain Gang Interaction - And a lot fucking more, these are just ones that come to mind. Every single one of these cards are either single handily busted AS FUCK or above average and pushed WAY overboard due to the existence of some other broken as fuck card likely in this list. NONE OF WHICH! would have taken more than several hours of card database checking to ensure nothing went to far overboard. BUT OFC they couldn't be bothered. ALL but perhaps! Caverns Below - Execute and funnily enough Patches had ZERO excuse to not see as game breaking and even less of an excuse the tine taken to fucking nerf. The devs SHOULD feel liek shit we pay their fucking wages and ALL of these cards listed and more could have been avoided FACT! People don't mind losing its HOW they lose. Again take your tongue from the developers rear and STOP giving a free pass to LAZY GREEDY POOR game design.
Druids have plenty of anti aggro tools to prevent them from having a "polarized" match-up vs aggro. Double branching paths, Double oaken summons, Double Swipe, Double giggling inventors, and double naturalize and spell stones for single target removals. I think your 100% wrong on this one, and have a conceptual misunderstanding of druids in standard. This is coming from a long time viewer and monthly legend player in standard...
Swipe is pretty useless without spell power, Oaken summons does not do nearly enough because you are already about to be overrun by turn 4 and 5, branching paths only buys one turn unless it is paired with plague, giggling inventors are no longer an option, naturalize is pretty useless and usually counterproductive vs aggro.
Im sorry but i have to assume you either dont play much druid or are lying about your rank. Naturalize woudl simply feed aggro, spell stone is a decent single target removal but only two in the deck and really not so good against big boards. Branching paths buys you a turn at most. Oaken summons is ok but a 4 drop isnt going to stop aggro. Giggling is dead and want even being played in alot of druid decks exept token. The only real good thing druid would have for aggro is star fall which is mediocre at best. Oh, And swipe is not even all that good but is played in so much druid decks because they dont have much other board clears.
@@Umamaahoe yea because I gain what from lying about my rank... OK look up the blizzard tag IPlaypokemon. Being a monthly legend player is not a huge accomplishment...
Well, like you pointed out in the video, nerfing the giggling inventor to 6 mana would be kinda problematic. It could raise some even decks (i imagine even token druid, even pally, probably would include it in even shaman, and even mechhunter). Unfortunally we cant test that theory, but i imagine blizzard did and thats why its 7 mana now.
Even token druid can never work lmao. No savage roar is pretty rough since your only buff options are Power of the Wild and braching paths which in a lot of situations youre going to need to pick the second option
It's actually kind of funny that that's a problem they're facing when balancing cards. Blizzard has rotated cards from the classic set for being restrictive when designing new cards, and then they proceed to give themselves a super restricting card to design around that they have to work with for at least a year.
Its hard to say that something "could never work" if you cant test it. Im not saying it would be the metabreaking deck that made the giggling nerf 7 mana, neither that it would be the same playstile of the current token druid, just some guesses by looking at the current cards. Tendind Tauren, Strongshell Scavenger, Evolving Spores are some of the even buffs that you forgot to mention, and maybe you could get something out of a dendrologist. Another point is that they already have at least 3 expansions kinda ready to go (there is an old video of ben brode saying that when an expansion is released they are already working on other three), so maybe there are other interactions that we don't even know yet (on other classes too).
They put themselves in this position by printing cards like Baku or Genn. Sometimes, the nerf makes sense AND solves the problem (CtA from 4 to 5 Mana), and sometimes, you need to murder the card so that the other "half" of the odd/even deck doesn't take advantage of the card (GI, from 5 to 7 Mana). They'll have that problem for another year and a half.
Getting rid of spreading plague would leave druid weak to aggro? That's a weak excuse, druid should not have an answer to every deck out there which it currently does.
Exactly right. I don't think he realizes why druid is currently the most popular deck on ladder and after these nerfs will probably be even more. Having a match be decided by did he draw spreading plague or not is a problem.
Uhm...druid is a class, not a type. EVERY class should have an answer, multiple in fact, to EVERY playstyle. It's specific decks that shouldn't be able to respond to every strategy.
If you knew anything about hs and looked at the numbers you'll realise druid isn't that overpower right now. Just because it frustrates you to play against them it doesn't mean they are op
Ahh this rebuttal just because it frustrates you doesn't mean they're op. But what about mana wyrm the lucky chance that you got it by turn 1 and it snowballed the gamed and it felt very bad to play against and ppl revolted so much that now its unplayable. But for druid its kinda the same way: really high power level card that's improved with other cards, except they are more likely to have that card when they need it b/c of all the sustain removal card draw, ramp(geez that's insane). Its card that literally punishes you for playing anything weaker than the tokens but Blizz lets this slides when they said before they don't want those types of things while playing. I reckon more ppl are annoyed about how druid has access to op cards (and run similar shells) but Blizz does nothing about it.
I would like to see your opinions about hearthstone being too much of a luck based game rather than a skilled based game with meta polarity being a part of if you have a lucky matchup you win the vice versa is also true and it does t feel good losing a game before you play it the same is also true with card draw if you don't have a good card draw you feel powerless. Do you think this is bad and how could it be changed?
I cannot think of any card that would interact with a shuffle your deck card. Meaning a card that puts something at a specific spot in your deck. This might be wrong though. If they ever decide to print cards that put cards in specific spots in your deck (say a leyline strider that puts 5 spiders at the bottom), then shuffle would mean something
People issue with Druid is more that meta polarity meets Druid having the same 20? core cards which lead to a lot of the same play style. In other word Druid has seriously outstay is welcome at top tier play. I think changes to their core card are necessary for is long term health. So even if Odd rouge is more linear and can be more oppressive that any Druid deck is easier to counter and still have chance with any other deck in the meta. The same cannot be said with most Druid deck. So while I agree that people underestimate this nerfs impact. I do think their concern is justified to degree. That even taunt druid has seen in top tier play that doesn't run spreading plague show that is not just that card that is the issue. As I have said elsewhere Malygos will enter the hall of fame. Based that it ridiculous limited card design and that this expansion show an interesting on exploring card design with spell power(Unexpected result) and large minion cheating cards(Eureka) which can't be playable as long as Malygos is on the evergreen set. So that should remove the Malygos Druid as deck in standard. That should ease some of people concern with Druid if at least for a while.
Really love your logical approach to hearthstone politics n changes. Breath of fresh air opposed to your usual hearthstone video, wish people saw content like this more often.
I'm disappointed that you're a Spreading Plague apologist. The scarabs should've been 1/4 since day one. Not just for this card but for all cards that create them, especially Malfurion the Pestilent. Then maybe both choices for him would be equal. I don't even care if SP is 5 or 6 mana, I just want the scarabs to be less immortal.
I believe that blizzard could rework spreading plague so that it reads "Summon a 1/5 scarab with taunt, if your opponent has 3 or more minions, summon 2 more 1/5 scarabs" that way it is a flat amount of taunts that are way easier to deal with, especially if you play some sort of aggressive deck. You could even discount the card by one mana and I think it would still be balanced and a viable option for druids.
The only thing that can be done to generate more viable decks and allow for reasonably OP cards to exist but not be present in every deck, is this: Limit Legendary Cards in each deck to 2, epic cards to 4 and rare cards to 8. Make sure that each tier of rarity gives a card +1 on its value consistently so that Legendary > Epic > Rare > Common is always a thing. Conduct a series of balance changes that generally buff many cards that previously couldn't be buffed, so that we have more "good" cards. This instantly creates another requirement on including good cards in your deck, that balances their effectiveness out and essentially forces players to choose their deck power based on their legendary cards. Specifically, it forces to choose between one good card over another. Then you may find yourself thinking if it is preferable to include an incredible card such as Psychic Scream in your deck, or if you want to add something that has more synergy. This will also limit the viability of a lot of crazy combo decks (which is a good thing) and allow Blizzard to make even crazier cards since they can manage the potential combos and their viability. If card value is also maintained as suggested, a new player that has managed to find a few legendary and epic cards will eventually make a deck that is the same value as that of a veteran player since the "value" of a deck has a reasonable cap. So very early on, it all becomes a matter of skill and not money. This would also ensure that legendary cards are indeed GOOD since you can't have them all in your deck, so (with the exception of a few meme cards which are fine) opening a Legendary will not be a constant let down as it is today. Also, WILD would still be viable. I can state a lot more reasons why this is the only reasonable thing that should happen to Hearthstone, but it would take a waaay deeper analysis.
It's worth mentioning that the Aviana combo could also just use Emperor Thaurissan as well as Innervate, and that Juicy Psychmeleon is still strong in Wild as a 4 mana tutor 3. This video seems to be created too early since it's acting like Blizzard has been proven right when we haven't even seen the effect the nerfs have yet.
It's worth noting that a card taking place later in the game, and having some options to "play around," still has potential to be polarizing. A druid WITH current strength spreading plague has a higher base win percentage against certain decks. I'm not saying I disagree with your statements; it probably should not be nerfed. I just think that the particular argument you made for it is weak. Any card can contribute to polarization, and spreading plague is definitely one of them. If you don't have a bigger minion to play instead of smaller ones, your only option is to play fewer smaller ones than you would normally. This, of course, lets the druid control the board with only the THREAT of spreading plague, and leaves the pilots of certain decks with no recourse (i.e, you can play around spreading plague by building your board tall instead of wide, UNLESS your deck is focused around wide boards, in which case, the matchup decides the outcome of the game and contributes to meta polarization). It is impossible to not have any polarization, though. The card is good where it's at. It is worth noting, though, that while Blizzard can craft pretty polished games and definitely have the manpower and resources and skill, they are woefully unconnected with their community. People don't complain just to complain. Blizzard needs to be more transparent -- they could actually be testing plenty of nerfs and changes based on player complaints right now, but we have no way of knowing. You can't fault anyone for thinking that Blizzard ignored these cards when they aren't making an indication one way or the other. Maybe they actually DID run the numbers on a spreading plague nerf, and came up with that it wasn't good. We as players have no idea what Blizzard is thinking (across all of their games tbh). I don't think I could develop Hearthstone better than they can, but it isn't unreasonable to say they have no idea how to come across like they're on top of things.
Maybe you just forgot to mention it or used the wrong words, but nerfing a card does not always just delete it from the game. Making the minions that Plague summons 1/3s with taunt or increasing the cost to 7 wouldn't kill the card, it would definitely see play. If nerfed, it might become similar to Starfall, which is another defensive Druid card. It's not great, and definitely can be played around, but it's decent enough to see play in some scenarios and metas, and keeps the mindgame aspect.
Spreading Plague that makes 1/3’s is unplayable at 5 mana, much less 6. Starfall in optimal metas is the 30th card in Shit Meme Druid, and the current meta is extremely health-dependent.
@@alecwoodard9464 Do you think that spreading plague is balanced now? because you lose to druid if you don't have mossy horror in hand the turn they plague you. Remember when everyone said that the nerf to Rogue quest would kill the card dead?
The card is definitely above curve in power level, but is also Druid's only out to aggro decks. Killing the card means Druid drops 20+% in multiple matchups and increases the polarity of the metagame even further.
I wasn't going to say anything. But then I remembered this is youtube so I want to make sure you know: Thank you! Great video, I think you make very valid and insightful points. I'm just a causal player on a budget so I greatly value and appreciate your analysis and point of view of the different aspects of the game. And I think you make an important point players can sometimes forget. At the end of the day if you really can't say anything positive about a game why play. We should do a better job acknowledging the parts we do like and not become OCD about the parts we don't like & and end up constantly complaining. So thanks again keep up the great work.
goddamn you just reminded me that spreading plague used to be 5 mana also I definetly wish mana wyrm, practically defining tempo mage would have been given a better nerf
I think the only problem I have with spreading plague is instead of it being polarizing by turn 1 like other cards, its completely polarizing by turn 6/7, like the entire game up until that point was useless instead of the entire game after that point being so. I know it is difficult to change the card because without it druid would die turn 8 to every aggro deck drawing above or subpar, but with it, it just puts up such an impenetrable wall that some decks just cant deal with, whether it be they pour too much steam into it to get rid of it, or they dont have any steam left, and usually both of those circumstances result in a loss a majority of the time
Nerfing Spreading Plague increases polarity against Druid specifically, but reduces it in the game as a whole. Most Druid takes are extremely polarizing in one direction or another. You have four primary archetypes:Token, Malygos, Togwaggle (or "triple threat"), and Taunt. Malygos loses to aggro, and basically auto-wins against control. Spreading Plague mitigates the losing to aggro issue, which is a point for you; it decreases polarity by making in game decisions matter. Token Druid is one of the bigger issues. It's an aggro deck that basically just eats other aggro decks for breakfast, and control decks as a light snack afterward (having a positive winrate against most control decks, with the exception of other Druids, and all Warlocks). It has a positive winrate against almost every single aggro deck in the meta right now, with the exceptions of Aggro priest and Tempo Mage (which don't give a care about taunts, and the latter is going to be severely weakened if not deleted from the meta). Naturally, being an aggro deck it also has an inherent advantage over combo decks. Spreading Plague is an enormous enabler of this deck, since it's a defensive tool that punishes all aggro decks and sets up for OTK levels of damage the turn after. A lot of decks are basically DOA because Token Druid is so popular. It is one of THE meta defining, hyper polarized decks in no small part due to Plague's power. Taunt Druid doesn't run it for obvious reasons. Triple Threat I don't think is very reliant on it, it's a weird deck.
"The only defensive card for Druid" in a deck that can consistently get 10+ armor per turn is an odd statement to me. Oaken summons, Ferocious howl, the DK hero power, even without counting jasper and naturalize, I think druid would do just fine with a weaker Plague. Or have the choices in Branching Paths only pickable once each. Or have Nourish give you either two empty mana crystals or two cards. Druid is dominant, those nerfs affect directly or indirectly cards that it had difficulty against so it will only get worse, if your main argument to protecting them is "but then agro decks would get strong", it is a pretty weak statement in my opinion. One problem at a time. The nerfs were good but the job feels unfinished and I fear the impact of that on the upcoming meta.
Found the “tempo” Mage player Armor is not good against aggro decks if you get beaten by Druid’s armor gain either you are Mage and did this to yourself by playing a terrible deck in a terrible class or you are bad and don’t understand how the board works. Every current aggro deck is a board deck and as a result cannot lose to life gain if played correctly
"Every current aggro deck is a board deck and as a result cannot lose to life gain if played correctly" There is literally no aggro deck other then tempo mage.
@@C3l3bi1 Its not the only card but it is an important card. Thats like getting rid of aluneth in burn mage. Ofc its going to hurt the class in a large way but it wont kill it.
See what people don't realize is that there is a trifecta that goes on in Hearthstone, Control beats Aggro, Aggro beats combo, and Combe beats control. The only problem is that with spreading plague it gives said combo deck the ability to beat aggro. Not saying you should always lose to aggro as combo, but it shouldn't be efficient enough to stop you for 2 full turns for 6 mana.
Giggling inventor: Goo change, that card was good in both aggro and control, that's never a good indicator. Aviana: It's wild, so who cares. Mana wyrm: I honestly don't see the point. Yes it's strong, yes it can snowball, so what? Aggro cards are supposed to come into play early and be immediate threats. Spreading plague: Doesn't need to be nerfed further as far as I'm concerned. However it should probably have never been printed, but oh well. However, keep in mind this card also raises polarity because it's a "6-mana win the game" card against aggro Ultimate infestation: Has been needing a nerf since KFT came out, yet somehow dodged every nerf round and was left untouched.
One card I am annoyed that Blizzard didn't look into was Keleseth. While the matchups it is in aren't that polarizing, The card itself basically say whether you win turn 2 or not. It also removes the usage of many 2-drops. For me, I see it as worse than Mana Wyrm in the early game. That annoyed me alot.
I also want to return to the days when Warrior was the "gain armor to win" class instead of Druid getting that plus all of its other unbalanced cards like UI, SP, branching paths, gem, etc. Class identity? Blizzard forgot it existed.
psychmelon is not necessarily dead for anyone who still want to run the deck. The deck still need to get BOTH 10 mana LEGENDARY into hand, which is hell difficult via draw. (Due to, you know, you can only have one copy of each legendary) However, it is MUCH easier to draw one of the two, then play the melon for the other. Essentially, if you run one melon, you only need to draw two of the three cards, on average in the first 20 cards. If you run two melons, you need to draw two of the four, on average the first half of the deck (which you generally need to go through anyway). I still feel that while the deck is certainly much weaker, slower and less consistent, it is better w/ melon than w/o, regardless of whether the deck survives as a whole.
Wait, I don't think people want to nerf spreading plague in order to decrease meta polarity, I think they do because it's extremely powerful, and sometimes hard to play around. People don't like the fact that Druid's ONLY defensive option is such a powerful option. Give Druid more, less powerful defensive options.
ubadman1 how is spreading plague skill, all you do its play it when your opponent goes wide...spawning a bunch of 1/5’s with one card definitely isn’t skill to me.
my frustration with druid is that all its archetypes use the same 20/25 cards. blizzard in the past has say that's a problem worth nerfing or sending cards to the shadow realm, but i guess not this time for some reason.
I think saying that spreading plague is the only Druid defensive card is wrong. They have UI (drawing 5 cards as control is huge, a 5/5 on board is a threat, and 5 armor is 5 armor) malf DK, Furious howl, branching (I know he mentioned it), Oaken Summons, spellstone, naturalize, and of course spreading plague. Those cards alone are about half the deck and are all arguably defensive cards. That being said, control Druid is gonna lose A LOT after a set rotation between cobalds, and Frozen Throne
The real problem is odd and even decks are, in a few cases, seriously overpowered making up half of the top 10 win rate decks in the game. There is no good way to nerf them so we're stuck with a polar meta until they leave standard.
I don't think nerfing spreading plague would increase meta polarity much. I think there are two types of decks that really lead to the polarity in the meta: 1. Anti-control decks (quest rogue) these decks almost automatically beat control decks but usually lose to agressive decks. Kingsbane and OTK shudderwok also fall into this category but are less problematic due to the Azalina change 2. Anti-aggro decks (Odd Warrior) Similarly beat aggro consistently but often lose to control or otk combos. I don't think the aggressive decks are a big factor in polarity. We've seen aggro vs control for most of hearthstone's lifetime and this was never a huge problem.
The nerf to Aviana was ridiculous. Wild is on a much higher power level than standard, so a strong combo deck shouldn't be a problem. The main part of the problem was juicy psychmelon anyways. I don't understand why wouldn't they just nerf that card instead.
The main issue with Druid is actually that are way too much polarize around combo which are influence by card like Spreading Plague and wild growth. Druid all feel the same and uninspired because of it, if blizz really want to make druid fun they need to stop creating card that influence this kind of gameplay.
I mostly hate that Blizzard said "Giggling Inventor is important to a diverse metagame" and then decided to kill it outright. I would rather them either stick to their guns or be more transparent about why they changed decisions.
They changed their mind because the hs community is extremely impulsive and when they whine about something, blizzard listens so that they keep making money.
Thank you for fainlly saying the right things! If I can add to it the reason for the polarity is mostly odd warrior and quest rouge, in addition maybe but less shudderwork. Those 3 decks shift the meta polarity by being good in very specific matchups and very bad in others. If they should nerf more cards is giving those deck more chanses vs other decks!
I feel Blizzard is extremely bad with how much they nerf cards. They either go too hard or not hard enough. Some times it's obviously unavoidable like with Inventor but a lot of the time they end up basically removing cards from the game instead of giving them a proper nerf. I always think back to Warsong Commander and why they just didn't make her a 2 mana card instead of 3 mana post nerf or make Patches charge a battlecry (Shudderwock probably was the reason why there.)
I agree the blizzard nerf method of making a card unplayable really sucks expecially when they are basic set cards which if they where atleast mediocre cards new players could use them in budget decks. P.S. also alternatively to lowers it's cost they could make it a 3 mana 3/4 with it's current text
Defensive cards for Druid should either be straight up defensive like Ferocious Howl or more versatile like Nourish. I think that the armor gain from Branching Paths needs to be changed from 6 to 5. While Spreading Plague is annoying, feels bad to play against, and punishes you for trying to win, it's more like an Ice Barrier than an Ice Block, and it has counterplay.
The community doesn't consist entirely of idiots either... and even if Blizzard aren't idiots they are regularly displaying idiotic behaviour, the best example for this right now is how they handle BfA.
What i kept saying before boomsday comes out is that druid needs to be balanced not killed just so spreading pleague is not a 2 turn card to deal with bc for each minnion consider the value to 5 health leading up to 35 health for 6 mana and the fact that it has a 3/15 repsawn on turn 5 most of the times is a problem,what i am saying is,one decrease the value it generates when played or two decrease the value of mana generating cards so spreading is a threat on the turn it is supposed to be played. Mana wyrm tho was easy to nerf it without killing it that way...
No idea who you are, this video popped up in my reccomendeds. I'm very happy I clicked and watched though. I'm a long time ccg player, Magic, Star Wars, L5R, Budokai, Pokemon early on, Yugioh early on, Hearthstone obviously. I really enjoy the strategic element, and I think hearthstone definitely has problems both in current meta, and just overall as a general platform and trending shifts that other games have in part improved on or handled better. This video though, and your critique of these nerfs is spot on, and the additional commentary i think is really insightful and well founded. I watch Toast and Kripp, and Kiebler, Trump occasionally, and a few other high level players and do my best to learn from them and elevate my own level of play, when I'm trying to ladder climb and not just complete quests anyway. +1 subscriber to you sir.
They should change the text of spreading plague to: "give your charge minions +1 attack". And boom. Problem solved eith Druid, just like with Patron Warrior
I'm just gonna wait for the next expansion. If nothing changes-druid retains or improves its Tier A decks, then I will complain. For now I'll take these nerfs in stride and see what happens.
I think that yes there are issues with druid, but I think Spreading plague isn't the target. Ideally it should be branching paths. The armor gain from it is far higher than comparison. I read somewhere that if we do combos. draw 2 = arcane intellect but since choice it is 1 mana more. For +2 attack it is like Savage Roar, but again with choice. But on the other hand + 12armor is close to the +10 armor from Bring it on! (Hard to compare to), however we can compare to shield block if one choice is draw, however this is still above the value for shield block. (In other words it is the same as if shield block is 6 armor instead of 5). At 5 armor shield block is played. So, although this is different class and all that, it still means that it is too much armor.
Closes comparison to the armor gain is greater healing potion at 4 mana heal 14 heath. or shield block 3 mana 5 armor draw an card, for 1 more mana you get 1 more armor. you can also look at iron skin were we can see blizzard think 1 mana=5 armor. so basically 12 armor is about 2,5 mans
@@near3d945 the thing is armor is better than health and bring it on! Kind of upgrades the average or armor right? If gain 10 armor at 2 is so tough that they had to add such a huge debuff ( i would argue that this is like it costing 4 mana). Also there was that card that costs 5 or 6 that is a random effect and occasionally gets 15 armor. I stick by saying shield block is closest comparison and that is 1 armor less. I think best way to fix it is make it gain 5 armor instead of 6 and i would be happy
Bur in warrior its already been established that T5 value 1 mana =5 armor so 12 armor is 2.4 mana. So you are in fact over playing for the armor. draw 2 is 3 mana so your also over playing. the plus attack is in my opinion cost 3 for savage roar so it 4 mana the only one i think your not overplaying on. I think the problem with the card is less its effects and how they implemented it. You should have picked both option before the action. in this way you cant draw the card you want then stop or draw spellstone then upgrade it or double upgrade spellstone one in your hand.
The problem is that there are new decks that want to rise but the same old archetypes of druid and warlock keep pushing them down if they just kill branching paths and ultimate infestation along with the void lord the game would not have the need for quest rogue and the meta would really shift. I would say that a nerf to spreading plague would be that it spawns three/four? 1/5 taunt
I know this is off topic but I have a prediction for the next expansion. I predict the theme is going to be centered about the horde vs the alliance. The wooden hint looked like it had a banner, witchwood fit in for orcs.
I just wish that they’d buff some cards, like Emeriss for example, all they need to do is give her taunt, and then she goes from being too slow to be a great card.
I started a duo class arena run with a 5 mana giggling inventor and which i got out by turn 5 by the second game it turned into a (red as in debuffed) 7 mana giggling inventor
I just wish they nerfed prep to only work on spells that cost 3 or less, that keleseth only gave +1 attack, that mana wyrm became a 1/2, and that giggling inventor costed 6, not 7. That way valeera couldn't double it in quest rogue, and shadowstepping it costs all your mana if you want to play it twice. It would also take it out of odd rogue and make it more of a defensive tool. It's a shame blizzard was so rash in these decisions, but I understand the general intent. One thing I had hoped blizzard would start to do since Brode left would be to look at buffing/reworking unusable cards or reverting nerfs if they were too powerful. (Looking at you, warsong commander). I understand that would probably cause them to lose a bit of revenue, but I think it would also cause more players to keep wanting to play the game. I had 2 friends just stop playing until next expansion due to the nerfs, and the worry about zoolock being overpowered. For spreading plague to be nerfed, a similar defensive tool like poison seeds needs to be introduced. I hate the card with a passion, but I see its necessity. The same goes for mana wyrm. I would prefer if blizzard left cards playable, just not as good.
People were fine with running Mossy horror/Blood knight just to counter Giggling inventor so I don't see why people are complaining about spreading plague, just run a counter card to it or play around it. It's literally that simple.
The Problem i have with Druid is that Druid is one of the few Classes left with Gameplay Decisions, other Classes like Paladin or Warrior all have the same Gameplan without having to many Decisions they can do, besides to not use the Button as Paladin against Druid or trying to Outarmor The Druid as Warrior ( to just get Togwaggled anyway ) While the Meta is diverse, it feels like only Druid gets to play Hearthstone while the other Classes play Curvestone or Combostone... I don't like Druid, I cannot play them as a f2p Player and it feels frustrating to have had a 10% Winrate against Druid ( it got better, but I still don't like to play against Druid, it gives me PTSD )
I think they should ask for community feed back instead of taking time to make the nerfs, then announcing them after its already happened. Even open up a Test Server so that they can have the community test the nerfed/buffed cards before they make it solid state in the game, and make sure the majority is happy with it. In this case, all the buffs/nerfs were fine, but they came two months after the expansion came out. A test server could also be place for blizzard to try new things, like the taverns of time arena bunch which i enjoyed, but on a more regular basis keeping the game fresh
Honestly I have long lost my faith in the HS community on Reddit/Twitter. We have too many doomsayers especially with MtG:A on the rise. Basically every argument seems to go "Hearthstone bad" then "MtG is better >:(". They rarely now what they are talking about and solutions from those people are often very short-sighted. However due to the fact that the HS subreddit is basically an echo chamber, people feel validated in their outrage and will then lash out at everyone who has a different opinion than them.
5:19 lolwhat? 4 mana: 6 armor + pull 6health taunt out of your deck 4 mana: gain 12 armor (or aggressive/combo options) 1 mana: deal 6 damage to a minion 7 mana: DK no comments on top of traditional swipe and naturalize
Spreading plague would make sense if Druid didn't have the best and cheapest and most flexible single target removal cards. Wrath, Swipe, Naturalize, Spellstone (I think towagle runs starfall wich is a powercreep to blizzard). Spreading Plague is an Iceblock for Druids, it stalls the game 1 more turn for free and can be comboed into a free 4/4 or a million 2/2.
Also the main problems are not only that half the carss in a druids deck in this meta are the same but also that every Druids playstile is literally playing a game of solitaire
I have a idea to how to deal with spreading plauge. You dont nerf the spell, you nerf the scarab. Make the scarab a 1/4. That way druid become a bit weaker to other decks.
"Blizzard aren't idiots" That is a DEBATABLE stance given the recent Diablo Immortal reveal controversy, and the general downward slide in quality of writing since their merger with activision (see diablo 1+2 writing with diablo 3, starcraft 1 being a space opera about revenge and power hunger vs starcraft 2 being a bog standard prophecy love story, and world of warcraft actively ignoring various parts of WC1-3 just to maintain faction based gameplay, and overwatches overall lack of characterization of its heros.)
Think about it like this. Some decks like zoo can’t beat spreading plague unless they add mossy horror to their deck. However most zoo players get punished when doing that. I would argue that too many stats come out from spreading plague. Like are you telling me I’m not supposed to play doubling imp on turn 3 when I’m playing zoo?I would say make the scarabs 0/4. This would allow Druids to maintain the defense of stalling for a turn but would get rid of awkward trades with the scarabs. With this you could trade your 1 health minion into the scarabs.In addition 4 is VERY different than 5.Soul infusion+doubling imp would mean something. True silver champion would kill a scary.There’s loads of scenarios in which 5 health is a lot stronger than 4 health. Also nerfs token Druid(one of the strogenst decks in the meta) which would shake up the meta in itself. I don’t believe spreading plague is a card you can play around for the decks it’s giod against. Sure with shaman maybe you skip totem turn 2. But with decks like zoo you can’t afford to not play your stuff. You need that early pressure. This means you have to play into it hoping they don’t have it. With all the draw Druid has this is a pipe dream most of the time. Now this may increase meta polarity but how would it make it worse? I mean I don’t know how Blizzard would fix meta polarity with the cards they printed. It’s like this could make a game-breaking combo but shudderwock exists so it’s ok. This could make the meta more polarized ,but it’s already so polarized that nobody gives a damn. People are just tired of losing to spreading plague.
People hate Spreading Plague because it's such an unfun card to play against. It can be played around, but so many matchups are won or lost off the back of Spreading Plague. It's akin to Deathstalker Rexaar for Hunter; the card has such a ridiculous win percentage when drawn it's honestly nonsense.
How is Spreading Plague "the ONLY defensive card Druid has aside from Branching paths"? If it was true, then taunt druid wouldn't exist, it doesn't use Spreading plague like some other druids decks too, and let's not forget about Ferocious howl, spellstone, oaken summons -ironwood golem combo, Druid DK, some decks even use crypt lord, druid of the swarm\ of the claw even. Seems like plenty of defensive tools to me.
Aw man.... I just started playing again 2 days ago and immediately saw the strength of giggling inventor. Just crafted 2 of them, now I gotta dust em :(
Increasing giggling inventor to 6 mana is not a nerf its a buff. Even paladin would become so powerful. Mana wrym should have been nerfed years and years ago. Aviana nerf is so obvious to it needs mana cheat and should occupy a important space in pschy juicemelon. After all there is so many cards that should be nerfed but spreading plague is not one of them. If we start to nerf every card we encounter and call them op there would be another power level that is very very down below. The core cards should be stay. Like druids ramp cards. Rogues miracles. Warriors ultimate board clears. Priests early game boars presents and card generstions. These classes are very weak without them and at this point if you nerf spreading plague once more. You will not see a class called druid in the matches. You said caverns below undernerfed, you are right. I think there is 2 card that breaks the game in other ways. Shudderwock and caverns below. Shudder breaks it by making its game style very different and complicated in different ways. A matchup with shudderwock is just a race against time And that shouldnt work like in shudder decks it should work like exodia mages. I know you guys didnt get it what im trying to say but you will. And caverns below here you are you little cheeky rogue. This cards and shudders problem is similar. Have you ever played against a controll deck. What was your winrate? %
I noticed this "meta polarity" asap 3 monts ago when i turned from wild player to standard (cause the stupid same druid decks), and i talked this with people and call me stupid. Sure, a balanced meta is great but having 3 totally different archetypes per class its ridiculous because it leaves to missplays in the mulligan just because you are GUESSING what your opponent deck can be. Thats not cool at all and less in ranks 5 to 1 and legend being a "guess game". A few examples:odd rogue,kingsbane rogue, quest rogue; deathrattle hunter, spell hunter, beast hunter, control warlock, zoo warlock,etc....
Spreading Plague already makes you underplay your hand. Just the threat of spreading plague gives druids far too much time. Allowing them all the time to ramp and draw into victory.
Wild Growth is a pretty bad offender to me. Spiteful was just about the only deck I can think of that had a legitimate reason to play the Druid class without running Wild Growth. Ramp is supposed to come at the expense of card advantage in my opinion. It's a little crazy to me that the two main ramp spells, WG and Nourish, both allow you to choose between ramp and draw. It essentially makes both cards just a little too good. For instance, in MTG you have Rampant Growth which does almost the same thing as Wild Growth. But imagine if Rampant Growth also let you cycle it for 2 if you had enough lands already. Having the ability to draw a card off of a spell that has become useless in the late game is a HUGE upside. I think any mana cost nerf to Wild Growth would be too extreme, and you can't change the effect because it's simple and meant to explain the Druid class. But why not eliminate the Excess Mana upside? The deckbuilding risk/reward for Wild Growth is that early game ramp is balanced by late game ineffectiveness. If you are desperate for Wild Growth on 10 to have an effect, maybe it can give you a coin instead -- that keeps with the mana theme, which makes more sense than drawing a card anyway. Nourish is an offender just because it's never bad to cast. Since you get the two mana crystals immediately, it's kinda like 3 mana gain two empty mana crystals, or 5 mana draw 3 cards. I don't really see a good nerf for this card, though. If you make it 6 mana, I think it's nigh unplayable because by the time it's ramping you it doesn't impact the game enough and if it's only a card draw spell there are better options. You might be able to make it gain two empty mana crystals instead of filled, but that's effectively a two mana nerf which could just kill the card. And you might consider dropping it to draw two cards, but that's a two mana nerf on Arcane Intellect. Of these options, I don't know that I would be able to justify a nerf to Nourish, but it does feel like it's too good to be an eternally-present fixture of the Druid class. It takes a special deck to not want to run Nourish. Also, since I'm ranting, from a game design perspective, I hate how easy armor is for Druids these days. I liked the logic of Druids gaining armor specifically in the context of the hero going in to fight (hero power, Bite, Gnash, Claw, etc). With that design philosophy, Jasper Spellstone is a fair card. But Branching Paths, Ferocious Howl, and (to a lesser extent from a meta standpoint) Earthen Scales gain armor in a different way, and it's way too easy for that to be a huge amount of armor. Hell, Branching Paths ITSELF gets you a fully upgraded Greater Jasper Spellstone. Compare that to the work Rogues or Mages have to put in to complete their spellstones. And my last point is that Ultimate Infestation should not deal five damage, it should grant your hero +5 attack. Not exactly the power level nerf that card might need from a balance perspective, but it is definitely a flavor change I want.
