(Hearthstone) Shudderno Shaman in Whizbang's Workshop! 

In my own words it’s a shutdown counter, if plagues go online your deck is shutdown and the best option is to concede most of the time. That’s an awful play experience and should be prevent at all costs

At the same time, Reno is just so disgustingly powerful that I don’t really have a hard time being ok with such a consistent shutdown. Now the other Highlander payoffs are bad, and don’t deserve the hit, but Reno himself does. It’s an unfortunate circumstance.

@@GingerNinja303 That's fair except Reno is far from the only disgustingly powerful card and still he's the only one with such an unbeatable counter. It would be like there being a card that made all hunter minions cost 2 mana more for the rest of the game. It completely invalidates an archetype if the other is even remotely playable.

If Helya didn't exist, there would be a whole lot more Reno decks running around, which would make the whole game more unpleasant for everyone. I'd rather see Reno players be disappointed occasionally than see everyone else have a bad time all the time.

@@Ninguin I kinda agree. I do think counters need to exist for ultra-powerful cards like Reno though, and they did used to exist. Other powerful cards like Ignis have pretty low-opportunity-cost counters, but they are still good enough to play. They can kill your 10 mana card which required two setups just by playing a single, well-statted, tradeable minion. Like you said, the problem is that Helya is impossible to play around at all. At least with Rustrot Viper, they have to play the counter _after_ you equip the weapon, and you can "play around it" by choosing windfury, battlecry or deathrattle, by choosing cheaper weapons, or by bouncing your Ignis. And I guess you at least get one swing. With Helya vs. Reno, there is no hope. It would be like printing a card with Battlecry: Destroy your opponent's quest. That's why things were fine when Steam Cleaner was in standard, since it was at least possible for Reno to overcome these counters, but now it's just lame. (Also, I would much rather just make Reno weaker than add an unstoppable "counter" to discourage playing him at all. He is, imo, just too good.)

Yes I agree, Kibler taking way too long on a turn lately

He wouldn't have played it even if he did make a 5 cost weapon. He was trying to keep his hand full so he could burn plagues. If he could do that and get down the armor weapon he would have had a shot of winning with fatigue

He wanted a full hand to burn a card which was likely to be a plague, try and keep up boys.

He should not have played a 5 mana weapon right away, but he still should have picked it so he had an opportunity to equip a weapon and also play other cards, possibly filling up his hand again. By picking three ten mana weapons, he made it so the only way he could keep milling cards was if he passed every turn.

​@@TelepoleDonQuixote We saw the DK playing Ignis last turn so looking for HP/armor was the better option there even if it means a chance at drawing some plagues the very next turn...

Paladin is worse. Let one of their minions live a turn and you die. But now that matters less cause you can play a 20 damage Leroy from hand.

Extreme cope

The opponent did not give him a lot of turns where he could go "Yeah I guess I can spend 10 mana this turn to deal 2 damage and get a random effect" Like, long term the hero power would have been helpful, but short temr he was dying and needed to respond to the opponent's board for most of the game

@@ivanspinelli7667 but he used 4 cards for 11 mana to board clear instead of using Reno. Furthermore using tumbleweed instead of reno was int too

the reno wasnt active though, since the double Helya shuffled in duplicate plagues, so Renos battlecry wouldn't have tiggered@@jeppelund112

@@jeppelund112 Reno was disabled at 7 mana (3:19 in the video) when the enemy played Helya a second time, putting permanent duplicates of all three plagues into Kibler's deck. From that point onward, Reno was just an 8 mana, "gain 5 armor and a new hero power" card. No board clear.

@@jeppelund112 did you watch the video? he got double helya like turn 5, reno doesn't work after that