really good presentation, informative, and I will be using it, you saved me so much time and research, thank you. you are a tremendous blessing. God bless you...
I just heat treated a blade of 5160. I don't have a heat treat oven so I used the forge. I heated it up to red twice and let it cool. Then I heated it up to where it was non magnetic and quenched in canola oil. It was hard and a file just skipped over it without catching. Then I tempered it in my kitchen oven at 400 for an hour, let it cool and then put it in for another hour. I don't have a way to test hardness. Do you think it's ok or did I screw it up?
kol7117 - it’s hard to say. Chances are you didn’t reach full hardness with that oil. And tempering at 400 for an hour is probably high. You might want to skip the tempering all together or 350F for an hour. Find a machine shop that has a hardness tester and get you blades tested. That way you can fine tune you results. Good luck.
Derick, you do amazing work. Meticulous and accurate. I am following your videos as examples of best work practices for my novice knife making. If you are ever in NM, look me up.
Elizabeth Figueroa 5160 Normalizing :1600*F (870* C) 40 min & Cool in still air 2 Times to room Temp. 5160 Hardening Austentize :1525*F (830* C) And quench in Oil Temp 150*C Move blade forwards backwards in Oil to quench quickly and evenly. Annealing: Heat To 1525*F (830*C) then cool rapidly to 1300*F (705*C) then cool to 1200*F (650*C) at a rate not exceeding 20*F (11*C ) per hour. 5160 Forging Heat To 1525*F (1205*C) Do Not forge after the temperature has dropped below 1600*F (870*C)
Wow, I really enjoyed your videos, thank you! Is there any benefit to spring tempering O1 tool steel to the 52-55 range in 5" - 6" blades? I had no idea O1 could bend so much at 60rc.. Would O1 at around a 54rc still hold a good edge? Thanks.
in regards to your hardness tester. made in china. Might be just the angle of the camera, but the needle looks straight. but numbers plate look off in vertical alignment, might be able to adjust the card with the numbers on it to match the needle
Do you anything about making spring assisted knives? I have been looking for info online but can not find anything useful. Could you please share some info if you have any? Thanks.
At what temp and how long would you recommend tempering 5160? Specs are 1/4" thick, 10" long. I'd like a the hardness to be upper 50s like 57 or even 58. Anyway thanks!
Soak at 1525F for 20 min 1/4", Oil quench and temper ASAP First temper 350 at 1 hour RC 59 - 60 Second temper at 350 at 1 hour RC 57-58 Results may vary with your equipment, good luck.
Rougeau Knives yes, I guess H quenck K is similar to parks 50, a very fast oil for 10XX series steel. I hear that 5160 likes a slightly slower quench, like maybe AAA? I have a pair of extra long channel locks, like at least a foot long, I was planning on using but proper tongs would probably be better.
Thank you Rougeau Knives for the video, which temper did you put the oil? If I'm using normal kitchen oil, which temperature would you recommend ?Thanks a lot
Kitchen oil won't give you full hardness of the steel. You can drag a file over the cutting edge after quenching and listen to the sound it makes. The more it sounds like glass the harder it is. So I would consider not tempering it unless you get a good smooth glass sound. If you do temper it, 375F for 1 hour. Without a hardness tester we are guessing.
Rougeau Knives really... i havent had any trouble getting mone hard with vegetable oil... i just dont heat the oil... everyone says i risk cracks etc... but it hasnt happened yet... and if its a small cutter blade i dip it in the oil cold for 5 seconds... then water until its cool...
(+1 : 10) Very Nice. I'm going to be working with 1095 Blue Tempured Steel from McMaster. I'm going to order 0.025" x 4" x 4' shim stock for making lockpicks. The problem is that I don't want to ruin the temper when I use a dremel with an abrasive cutting disc. How would I go about cutting it without ruining the temper..? Just make sure it doesn't go over 500 degrees? Or make sure it doesn't get too hot right? Awesome video btw, I really like your rockwell hardness tester. Where can I get one of those, if I had the money to get one? You've got some really nice equipment. Thanks for the awesome video.
I pickup my Hardness Tester from Grizzly. I would grind the picks first but leave some extra meat on it. Heat treat and temper, unless you want the picks to be on the hard side don't temper and test bend them. Then finish grinding the rest off and quench in water periodically to keep it cool. Don't go over 300 degrees F or you will draw the temper out. Or you can heat treat it first and do all the grinder afterwards, your call. Good luck.
Thanks for the reply. I don't have a grinder, I'm planning on using the abrasive cutting wheel to cut close to the lines on the template for the picks I designed in InkScape. then I was planning on using the Dremel again to trim very carefully and slowly to the lines, to get a very nice lockpick, exactly how I designed it in Inkscape. I'll definitly quench it in water and when I feel the metal getting hot on my fingers, I'll dip it in the water. If I do ruin the temper it's just a matter of getting the metal red hot, to harden it, then quench, then heatt it up till I see the metal getting blue, to get the temper back in the 1095 Blue Tempered spring steel.. right..? I'm pretty sure I wont have any problems, just never really worked with this much steel before.
Roy Andrews You would be better of using small files or jeweler files to do the shaping. Steel needs to be no magnetic before you quench and temper 350F to 400F for 1 hour. that might hit your desired hardness. You can always do another temper if its to hard.
Which set should I get from McMaster Carr..? I see they have quite a few of them here, can you take a look at them, and tell me which ones might be the best? www.mcmaster.com/#jewelers%27-files/=rrle19
dear sir, kany hallo from Greece.I made an hight temp kamin and i d like programm the annealing face of 5160 steel (6mm car spring).Do you know the annealing carve?I mean the time to reach max temp, time remain in max temp,wich is max temp for 5160, and the time to enviromental temp.Sorry for many quastuonsbut i can not found infirnations in Greece.Thank you and many wishes from Greece.
Rougeau Knives thank you, 1500 Celsius you mean?Here we use Celcius scale.Seem to be much 1500 for celcius, maybe you mean farenite ...???I fund the corespoding temp.
I don't use just one form of heat treating. Some blades get an edge quench. Others get a clay pack to create a Hamon. Some get a hard temper and some a soft temper. It all depends on how big the knife is, what it will be used for and the steel it was made from. The heat and times in this video give you a starting point.
My question was more specfic. I understand the heat treat and the first temper -- what I've never seen is re-tempering a steel to be less Rockwell or more springy. That was a very cool video. So how did you do the second tempers?
Rougeau Knives ....thats not bad.i need to upgrade then.the old evenheat pottery kiln im using takes 1.5 hours to get to 1500.. i never had a baseline time before, now i do...Thank you!
I am new to the knife making game, but I recommend putting a larger baking sheet on the bottom rack and the knives in the middle. The bottom rack baking sheet helps to prevent the hotspots directly above the element
why make a heat treat video if youre using a programmable heat treat oven... you can look up detailed recipes for that... smh... where are the videos for those of us who dont have a grand to spend on a kiln.. ive looked and looked for a GOOD instructional video on charcoal forge heat treating... and cant find any
Type in "work with nature" making machete with truck spring...On youtube...The guy is in jungle,think he is german.He has 2 friends work with him and divided into 3 videos ( not long but fun videos).. He does it the manner islanders use,like Chamorro in guam etc..It is where I learned and my blades come out epic..At end he showed how to make a ledge to hang spine over for multi treatments for tempering perfect..Follow everything to a T,,,,EACH STEP....Even dip a hot iron in your quench medium to heat it prior..I finish mine better,but his manner is sure proven PERFECT HOMERUN for 5160 auto springs used.Sequence of videos are fun to watch,crew is funny and they name it the " Ventury Fury" jungle machete.lol.."Work with Nature" on youtube..Guy knows alot of stuff...
Little late, but here's an expert: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9KYb9P9GzVQ.html That's about heat treating in a forge, by a metallurgist that designs steels and heat treatments for a living. Also developed Magnacut steel.
Your heat treat soak time is a tad lower than the data I've read calls for (1,525°F - 1562°F). What advantage do you find using the slightly lower temp? How long do you have to manipulate the straightness of your blades? Does it vary much for different alloys?
wait, you want to straighten the blade while it is at its hardest? Are you not worried of breaking of fracturing? That i how i understood what you were saying at the vice. Could you expand on that? I am concerned about straightening, but I normally try to do that while the blade is annealed before the quench
Even if the blade is perfectly straight, sometimes when you harden carbon alloy steels they will warp a bit and you need to straighten them. After I quench the blade It will cool to about 400F to 600F degrees in around 10 seconds. That's when I straighten the blade and you wont break or crack it, at least I never have. You could straighten it during you first temper as log as the temp is 400F or higher but the chance of cracking might increase.
I'm a novice at knife making and am wondering what the racks you place the knife blanks on in the heat treating kiln are called and where I can get one? Loved the video and learned a lot! THANKS!
New steel is typically in an annealed state so its soft and not hardened. Normalizing is needed when you have forged or hammered the hot steel and need to release the stresses of the steel so it's grain is even. When heat treating hold the steel at it's hardening temp so it becomes nonmagnetic and then immediately quench. A general rule is to hold the temp for 15 minutes for 1/16" thick steel, and 20 minutes for 1/4".
Hello sir, Thanks for the video. I see you used 350f x2 for 1 hour to get 57 hrc. But how mutch more for geting it down to 52? I making two long slim middel age knifes 19" blade 1" widescreen and 3/16 thick, and 57 is probably to britel.
Ive been searching for good info and this video and the comment section answered alot. I currently use 1095 and quenching in canola oil but still getting a more dents in the blades edge not chipping or rolling it just dents lol file skates and did the same process as you (in a forge) oil was preheated to 132° using a temp gun. But only did one cycle of temping at 350° for 1.5 hrs
Canola oil is too slow for water quench simple steels. W2 is water quench, O1 would be an oil quench steel and A2 would be air quench. Plain carbon steels are at least water quench so they need special fast quench oil and thinner cross sections to cool fast enough.
