Heating Water treatment explained (VDI 2035) and BIG NEWS! 

I love the idea that you anticipated someone coming along and putting in inhibitor so hid the filling loop :)

Thank you Michael!

This is my favourite RU-vid comment.

It's punchy for sure. We need far higher levels of installer education before we could jump fully over to VDI but it should he an option.

and manufacturer education!

Oh for sho

Learned it with you!!!

We found one of our guys was shooting concentrated inhibitor into an empty system, leaving it in for weeks before it was filled, went off like the pipe had been shot full of silicone.

yes that wouldnt be required necessarily. The issue is already there if your trying to collect the dirt in a magnet.

Never had anyone in my lifetime check their Water with a Test Kit annually. In fact if they ever needed a flush then they don't bother to Test the crap they flush out. For obvious reasons 😂

@@macmusica BS7593: 2019 - Moron

Well you've got a source now!

@@HeatGeek looking at doing both courses at some point in the near future too, will need to brush up a little on the basics again first before delving into it though. I kind of get stuck into a rhythm of knowing what works where and know who to ask if I don’t, I usually end up ignoring the advice and it works as intended anyway, think they call that “winging it”

@@b-techheatingltd6690 lol. The course is designed for absolute beginner too!!

Distilled water is about £1 per litre so filling a heating system with it would be a non-trivial cost.

no add PH+ or PH- tablets. yes with conductivity.

@@HeatGeek cheers for the help 👍🙂

not needed if conductivity is low. and would be expesive.. but yes would work

Raises conductivity. Suggest antifreeze valves instead

If you use decent vdi water treatment, never!

I also recently flushed an old system out surprisingly wasnst that dirty. i refilled the system and didn't have any inhibitor on me. Do i go back and "treat" it or tell him tap water should be fine (i can't relay all that science 🤣)

1 year according to manufacturers it should be checked and dosed annually

yes please. Thats what its there for!

some allow vdi and some dont. i say this in the video

Antifreeze valves.

@@HeatGeek The valves are expensive and 2 needed per install... but I'm gradually warming to this idea.

Glycol has had its day with ashps. We're fitting the antifreeze valves everytime now. We've had issues with glycol messing with flow valve at low temperature

@@mikecole4952 I don't know why it was ever a thing tbh

Still an issue, but just greatly greatly reduced

Rads can rust

It's the warm temperature up there.. the inhibitor doesn't create it but gives it food to grow.. systems should be upgraded to sealed systems to be honest so I don't risk about it much.. you could add biocide if concerned.

Any chemical cleaner is fine.. x800 or whatever.. I've never had RO water lower the pH .. ever

@@HeatGeek Sea Water = 8.6 pH Soda = 2.5 pH Mineral Water = 7.4 pH Sports Drink = 2.9 pH Tap Water = 6 -8 pH Coffee = 4 pH RO Water = 5-7 pH Beer = 4.5 pH Reverse osmosis water is nearly pure water with a PH of 7. Reverse osmosis is a filtration method that removes more than 99% of all the contaminants in water. The result is nearly pure water, which has neutral pH of 7. But if it’s exposed to air, RO water drops down to an acidic pH range of 5 - 5.5. Why? Pure water is very hungry. it actually grabs CO2 right out of the air! Within about an hour, a glass of pure RO water can drop from a pH of 7 down to a pH of 5.5 or lower and become acidic water. Alkaline water has a pH of greater than 7, so reverse osmosis water is not alkaline water. To alkalize it, you have to add calcium and other minerals to it.

@@valentinmirauta7059 sealed heating systems aren't in contact with air and don't do as you say. The drunks have all sort of other things in so is irrelevant and...as per the video we use ph+ and ph- pool tabs for ph correction

@@HeatGeek I mean as the article ( most of web articles are similar about RO )say the RO water in contact with the air becomes acidic but if is in sealed system with no contact to air should be all good 👍 On other hand is not required 100% pure RO water in the system so the pH will stabilise The idea an amount of like let’s say the area I live is 400 TDS at the tap 🚰 that’s bad for a heating system. So use of VDI 2035 will work better than use of inhibitors All the best with your work Thanks

@@valentinmirauta7059 yes.. but this is why in the video we recommend to keep conductivity to 80 - 100 ųS to act as a ph stabiliser when using RO.. any lower than 80űS and pH can wonder

Viessmann have. theres an amendment to BS too

oh and many heat pumps manuals request it, all Honeywell valves stipulate to follow VDI. Vaillant used to stipulate it too and have started again.

Not really we've been doing thos for the last 7 years.. takes about 2 minutes of time..

Oh and it's £15 cheaper then adding a bottle of inhibitor

@@HeatGeek yes but you are still going to have a minimum invoice charge I.E £30….. you are not going to do it for free. Look, I’m not a pessimist and actually I am a massive fan of heat geek! (I would love to be an ambassador). I just think your energy and time should be spent trying to ‘prevent rather than cure’ I.E trying to get your courses in to colleges.

@@deanchapple1 don't worry mate open to constructive criticism.. we are working on college courses and these videos are how we market the courses. Your charge would be for what ever you went out there for.. but as per the video tap water is absolutely fine most of the time so this is much cheaper than inhibitor.

Better educated installers are more expensive per hour and rightly so, if they spend their "free time" educating themselves beyond the laughably tiny amount of required compliance for the job they should be rewarded. Don't forget though that "The Bitterness of Poor Quality Remains Long After the Sweetness of Low Price is Forgotten" - Ben Franklin

Evaporation in a sealed system? We talk about 'natural state' too.. did you watch the video?

@@HeatGeek I have had to refill a few Combi Boilers annually and same for the expansion vessel. I watched it all and it was not a great way to spend our time. Way too deep. Nobody is gonna measure semen levels nor pH. Installers don't care for all that. Just renegades with figures to impress and add to the job for the Chemistry Lesson. Let's face it, dirty water gunks up valves and corrodes Seals. I had to replace 2 Manifold Return Valves after just 5yrs use which had inhibiter. The water is black and I'm in the lowest Soft water area in all UK. Basically the cost of installing Air Source Heat Pumps is diminished by Council Regs for size of a Compressor in a Conservation Area (noise likely) as they are not up to date on new tech. Plus the one they allow only is the size for a tiny 2 bedroom house. Mine is 2 floor 3 bedroom. I could have gone with one for my new fit UHF if not for that. BUT an insider tells me Hydrogen is indeed coming as they have found ways around the cost to convert it... via the Carbon Capture to bury it in Gas wells they drilled already. It's "genius". Yes, I watched your vid on the BAXI. It's said they will supply up to 30% of the Grid in a few years!

@@macmusica I think you Mean Siemens as Semens has a totally different meaning.

@@knowitall6677 yeah it seemed to be the reason for the vid hehe. Putin has saved us. The US are not happy about this ;)

@@macmusica well they are going to measure pH and uS. 1000s of us have been doing it for years lol

Thanks for your comment. I totally understand what your saying. But firmly disagree. The lesson here is, it's much easier to fill with tap water (in most cases) and leave it and never really need to touch again then buying unnecessary inhibitor and testing it every year.

@@HeatGeek you could do that but you will, without question, run into corrosion of iron and scaling of heat exchange surfaces. You could throw in some alkalinity buffer (pH plus tablets as you say) to drive the pH up beyond 8.3-8.5 to allow iron to form its natural passivation layer (magnetite), but this would not inhibit scale formation and kind of goes against the whole chemical-less ethos you're going for here. I would like to think maintenance (and therefore efficiency) is high up on the list of priorities for organisations such as yours - and this mentality is fundamentally the opposite of that. I admit there is a lot of marketing misinformation and relatively high cost to these products, but the chemistry works - it just does. The price of a unit necessary for dosing a typical domestic circuit is not much at all. When you're advising people on such a stage, you've got to ensure your facts are right and preferably validated by professionals. Bad advice is worse than no advice at all. I'm not saying the pre-treatment approach is wrong - I'm well aware of the mechanisms as they've been used for decades - I'm saying that the complexity and "faff" involved in applying them is not for Mr & Mrs Smith in the domestic space. The approach is also less forgiving, making it more unsuitable for the application. If you're not convinced about chemical inhibitors, just do a simple jar test and you'll quickly see - get two pieces of clean steel (a steel (not zinc plated!) bolt will work) and add one to a jar of

@@otw5974 as per the video, if below 1200 us no need for demin.. tap water is 7.4 pH but self alkihanises at 8.4 ish.. perfect ph

@@HeatGeek I say this with respect, but I urge you to do your research and gain real world experience if you want to give expert advice in this field. BSRIA is a good place to start, and the jar test like I suggested and see things with your own eyes - chemistry is not a black and white set of parameters and things don't always work as expected.

@@otw5974 My jar test shows pure tap is better, and my experience of draining a 50-year old boiler in Italy in a soft water area makes me think Heat Geek has a point somewhere. Still waiting for a reply from the OP to my question of December, so I'm not holding my breath now, however.

Not at all, first of all, it only voids the warranty if it's a water quality issue which there shouldnt be... Secondly Viessmann's instructions (which we fit) literally specifically say "fill with potable water" and refer to VDI, Vaillant also reffered to it for years, it was removed from vaillants instructions for a year, then recently readded as acceptable. I assume you dont fit Viessmann or vaillant as you must not have read their manuals. Thirdly, many heat pump manuals reffer to vdi.. fouthly all honewell valves specify that water quality should be to VDI standard.

We had a gas valve related issue on a very well known appliance, their chap turned up, took a bit of loo roll and vented the nearest rad, found some black marks on his loo roll and decided the water within the system was dirty, refused to carry on with the works. 1, That is not the correct test method to find out if the system is contaminated, 2, What does that have to do with a failed gas valve? Eventually got them back to carry out the correct test method, which proved the system was clean, and they eventually changed their failed valve.

@@marksmith5237 eventually did the right thing then. You won't have any black if following vdi

@@marksmith5237 poor practices like that are symptomatic of the long warranties that the market has been fed in the last decade or so, loads of boiler manufacturers will do anything to wriggle out of their responsibility after selling the warranty as an additional commodity.

@@patrickwheeler2646 agree with you completely, sell a long warranty and walk away at the first opportunity.

😭😭😭

It was recorded on two different cameras across two different years and in two different counties so I'm not surprised 🤣

Depends on your customers, our commercial customers do and have done for years. Once you learn the information in here it's easy to follow so you shouldn't need to charge a lot more to make a big difference to the longevity of the install.

Pay for what? It's a 2 min test, costs nothing.. infact it's £15 cheaper than adding a bottle of inhibitor and we've been doing this for 7 years

@@HeatGeekwhat you mean pay for what? Purotap leader £1800?

@@aj7303 as per the video tap water is fine most of the time... if you fill more than 120 systems up in your working life (we do double that a year) then an £1800 puto tap is cheaper.. or you can use the £111 micro which will fill a system 10 x over.. to fill a system 10x over with inhibitor would cost £150.

@@HeatGeek nah mate sounds like a scam drop me out