HEAVY ARROWS and DR ASHBY // are you using your Grandpa's arrows?

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HEAVY ARROWS and DR ASHBY // are you using your Grandpa's arrows?.. We dive in on all things heavy arrows and Dr. Ashby. This is part of our deep dive into technical archery this year! #ElkShape #Testing #grandpasarrows
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18 апр 2021

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Комментарии : 496

@ElkShape 3 года назад

Ok couple key takeaways before the comment sections blows up. 1. We've got love for anybody that is a hunter and/or archer 2. Having a perfectly tuned arrow/bow is paramount 3. Accuracy and confidence means everything 4. The supposed "scientists" of the archery world are still basing their studies on old studies done with traditional archery equipment, where FPS, and Kinetic energy are considerably different than a modern compound setup. 5. At the end of the day you should always do what is in your best interest for your setup.. ABT ... Also as a bonus we've got Aron Snyders take on this same subject that video will be coming. Appreciate you all.. - Tim & Dan

@matthewkyle2534 3 года назад

Why are you guys bothering with kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is a terrible unit of measure to describe an arrows lethality. What makes since to me is momentum. The difference being I want an arrow that will take more force to slow down. Arrows are not bullets. Bullets kill by dumping all that kinetic energy creating that huge shock wave that liquifies the internal organs. That’s why most people say you want to maintain over around 1000 foot pounds of energy. The idea is you don’t want to drop below that because you won’t generate enough shock to kill. An arrow will never generate that much kinetic energy right, so it’s pointless. Arrows kill penetration and hemorrhage. Animals bleed to dead. The more momentum an arrow has the more resistant it is to forced trying to sow it down. That’s what we want as bow hunters. An arrow that shoots as flat as we can that generates the most momentum and penetration. Anyways enough of my ramble.

@garrettrowe7917 3 года назад

Structural integrity is paramount. Perfect tuned bow/arrow is 2nd

@garrettrowe7917 3 года назад

Anyone using kinetic energy to talk about penetration loses all credibility, for me. Someone please take a physics class. This is like the bodybuilder bro science, but with archery. 😆Anyone that thinks they can beat the drop of a deer/elk also cracks me up. How about you listen to the difference of a light vs heavy arrow flying through the air. Animals jump the sound of the arrow, not the bow, change my mind. The arrow is way louder than today’s bows.

@RobertWilliams82-22 3 года назад

Im sorry, but I can tell how much josh disagrees with the fairy dust rancher.... but I agree 200% with josh, and I HATE his term “adult arrows” like my arrows are kids arrows... yea he might have a following, but he is a joke... plus his laugh is ANNOYING as F***.....

@ElkShape 3 года назад

@@matthewkyle2534 kinetic energy is simply referenced to show there is a difference between a trad bow that shoots 170 FPS and a compound bow that shoots 280 FPS with over 2X the Kinetic energy, don't take it for more than it is - tC

@alexgrier88 3 года назад

The reason Ashby used lower energy set up’s for a lot of his testing was so he could measure penetration differences. There is no measurable data from a pass through. Also broadhead type is not his number one factor. It’s structural integrity #1 and perfect arrow flight #2. Ashby also says you should shoot the heaviest arrow possible that gives you a trajectory you find acceptable, which I think is what you already do.

@lymanclark5537 3 года назад

Well said Alex and #1 and #2 are on point! They are saying Dr. Ashby is only advising to use 600 plus grain arrows and that is not what he saying. Hope they take the time to read it and understand it someday.

@garrettrowe7917 3 года назад

I tried to tell them this on the last video. Just click bait to get a conversation started and play on the algorithms. I just can’t help myself and comment anyway. He actually follows the report, but he doesn’t understand the report so he thinks he’s against the report. In all reality he’s shooting the heaviest arrow that allows him a trajectory he is comfortable with, cut on contact fixed blade broadhead, tuning properly, decent FOC. He’s just lacking mass. Which is down on the list some. If you follow all the other suggestions then you’ll be ok in most situations. He’s throwing Troy under the bus a lot. Troy just tries to help the majority of people out bow hunting whitetail with a max 30-35 yard shot with possible crazy shot angles. He wants people to be successful.

@colfaxmingo 3 года назад

@@garrettrowe7917 I agree and gathered where this video was going in the first 6 mins. They already made it clear there was a big misunderstanding in Ashby's research & reports

@colfaxmingo 3 года назад

@@lymanclark5537 exactly dude!

@kduffin33 2 года назад

No it’s because it was literally done in the 80s and he was using mainly a recurve. He didn’t have the choice to shoot compounds with anywhere near the KE of today’s bows Apples and oranges

@robertthomas9975 3 года назад

What?!?!? Dr. Ashby did not say broadhead MA was number one, he said it was number 4. Also, arrow mass is number 6 (unless it contacts bone, and in his reports Dr. Ashby makes a pretty compelling argument why we should build our arrows to challenge bone with a reasonable chance of success). Dr. Ashby did not study compound bows? Compound bows were in all of his studies. Gotta ask, did you even read the Dr. Ashby reports before commenting on them? I also have a very short draw length and do not shoot a 600+ grain arrow for elk. However my warning light goes off whenever I see someone be a casual critic of a guy with the initials "Dr." in front of his name that is so passionate about bowhunting that he spent 20+ years of his life on other continents studying how arrows penetrate things. Dan, I love your channel, I am an avid follower, thank you for your channel, it makes me a better bowhunter, but I think you missed it on this one.

@timl8302 Год назад

He also, got bowhunting legalized in Africa. I don't think JJ's read the Report. Whether compound or trad bow. The same rules apply at impact. I tell ya' allot of these people have never seen a slo-mo video of 'Impact Paradox'.

@benjamincooper8531 3 года назад

To be fair to the RU-vidr that you guys are referencing, he harps on the importance of a perfect bow tune and arrow flight for penetration a lot.

@ElkShape 3 года назад

Yeah certainly.. we've got love for anybody that promotes archery 🤘 - TC

@NorthernMNbeard 3 года назад

He also states that it doesn’t need to be 650. He also states for elk he believes 450-550 is a good sweet spot. Also he harps on a trajectory you can handle or feel comfortable shooting. Just like another arrow system maker states he wants to be 450-550 for speed and trajectory.

@tradrodsandcustoms 3 года назад

@@ElkShape you say that in the comments but the video seems to say the opposite, especially since it’s obvious you haven’t looked into the opposing side very far

@DEMartin673 Год назад

RF is shooting hogs at under 20 yards, under a feeder. So that piece of rebar he’s shooting works for him.

@MeltedToySoldier Год назад

I used to be on the fence in regards to this heavy arrow concept but, after listening to the both of you, I now believe the heavier arrow is probably better

@VitalyMack 6 месяцев назад

I'm not sure what they are talking about when it comes to arrow drop. They are assuming that a heavy arrow drops as much as a light one at distance. Which is just isn't the case. Heavy arrows are a lot more consistent. Also, I don't understand tuning cams of the bow to match some super light arrow. It would be like bending a barrel of a gun to account for poor bullet flight path...sure it can work, but only at predetermined distances. I guess in real life guys don't bend barrels but they can't their shots, which only works for exact distances.

@matthewkyle6939 5 месяцев назад

@@VitalyMacktheir is a point of diminishing returns.

@Bruderoutdoors 5 месяцев назад

A heavier arrow is better physics prove it I don’t care about anyone else’s thoughts or feelings. Proof had been proven

@matthewkyle6939 5 месяцев назад

@@Bruderoutdoors like I said, their is a point in which an arrow is too heavy and slow. As long as your arrow speed is above 260 fps your in good shape. Personally I like to shoot as heavy an arrow as I can push at or above 270 fps. But that’s just me.

@VitalyMack 5 месяцев назад

@matthewkyle6939 yeah sure. But these light arrows are really best suited for completion level archers with great access to game lands...oh and plenty of free time or access to hunting guides.

@buckfever9049 3 года назад

The Ashby Foundation had 197 consecutive heavy bone breaks with only 3% of those shots coming from a compound bow, and the majority of the shots from a 40# recurve. If you follow their advice, you can shoot through the shoulder.

@timl8302 Год назад

They now have a 2021 Cape Buffalo report with compounds on their website under "Supplemental Reports" - "Case Study - Cape Buffalo" .

@samadkins4122 3 года назад

I don't know if/how much you guys watch other channels, but one of my favorite videos regarding the Ashby studies is from Average Jack where he's actually breaking down the actual report. The most important part (per the actual study) is perfect arrow flight. There is also a line in the actual report which states that the ideal setup is the heaviest arrow that still maintains acceptable trajectory for you. Having F.O.C. is only part of the picture (as I feel like everyone pretty well understands). Anyhow, as someone relatively new to the sport, love the content, especially the educational stuff with MFJJ. Thanks guys!

@timl8302 Год назад

Dr. Ashby put out "12 Factors of Penetration"

@mikeeagan1307 3 года назад

Okay you guys are basically obsessed with disproving Ashby and Ranch Fairy....really?

@tylersweeney22 10 месяцев назад

I mean their obsessed with disproving them, sooooo your point. Why it cool for one group to do something but not the other way around. Although I personally agree with about 90% of what RF and Ashby say, here in North America with a compound bow you don't need it. John Dudley just did a few videos a out this and I dont know about you but a world class archer like legit world class been on team usa and stoped competing when they move the tournament into elk season cause he wasn't going to give up elk hunting, I mean really what team was RF and Ashby on? Yes if your in Africa yes shot a 650gr+ arrow, there's pros and cons to everything. I dont disprove them and either are they saying that, their simply bringing up valid points. How many years have RF ran an archery shop?, MFJJ has worked in on and/or owned one for 90% of his life bud. Yes if your pulling 50# and under with a short draw length Yes shot a 600gr arrow. I listen to a few archers on here and yes RF is even one of them I like everything but the 600+ grain arrow, the perfect arrow flight, structural integrity and so on, the 650+ is step 12 the very last step and means nothing of the other 11 isn't on. Now with those 11 and today's bow capabilities you don't need 650gr. That all their saying, I shot a 436 with a fixed and it will zip through anything here in North America period

@Duane14 2 года назад

Kinetic energy at launch is basically the same no matter what arrow weight you have. Heavy, higher foc arrows will retain more energy downrange and have more momentum built in due to the added mass.

@michaelvstheworld3680 3 года назад

Structural integrity and perfect arrow flight are number 1 and 2, and most important, in Ashby's terminal arrow performance report. A lot of people get hung up on number 3 which is FOC. Josh, love ya dude, but there is no such thing as overkill.

@Grimpla 3 года назад

dead right

@chasewaybright8766 3 года назад

Maybe if you blow through the animal, the earth, and get charged with the Murder of somebody in China When it exits on the other side of the earth but until then yeah you’re right

@chasewaybright8766 3 года назад

By the way I don’t just believe this in archery I hunt deer with a 300 WSM

@coreywallroff 2 года назад

There is such a thing as overkill when you are talking about a situation with multiple factors like desiring a pass through first but also wanting to keep as flat of a trajectory as possible after achieving a pass through. I believe what Josh is saying is that he desires a pass through, and is able to achieve that with an arrow that happens to be around 420 grains. He also desires as flat of a trajectory as possible while still maintaining a pass through. If he can achieve a pass through with a 420 grain arrow, then there is no reason to shoot a heavier arrow but rather take the benefits of the lighter arrow when it comes to trajectory. You can't get a better pass through. It is a yes/no equation. So a pass through with a lighter arrow and flatter trajectory is better than a pass through with a heavier arrow and more arch in the trajectory.

@timl8302 Год назад

@@chasewaybright8766 Cute, maybe you hit a ball joint, Humorous, both scapulas or spine? I want an arrow that would still penetrate 500gr/ 550gr+ RF recommend on Whitetail.

@RiledPassenger 3 года назад

17ms difference at 60# weight 31" draw at 50 yards between 420 and 500 grain arrow. Not worth dropping the weight for that little time. Keep the weight and the momentum if you can manage the amount of drop at your maximum comfortable range, time of flight is almost not worth thinking about within reason.

@zhickman338 3 года назад

Next I want a video on walk back tuning, and why it works.

@IronSharpensIron127 3 года назад

I love waking up to ElkShape Monday mornings it gets me motivated for the week. Now its time for range, and gym time. Gotta get ready to smoke my elk in December!

@interestedmeow 3 года назад

Haven’t watched the whole thing but man, would critics of heavy arrows please stop talking about KE? No one over here is taking about that. We are talking about momentum (the ability of the arrow to keep going despite braking forces) not KE. Momentum is waaaaay more dependant on weight than speed.

@trophyhusbanddiaries2805 3 года назад

They can’t talk about that because then they would have to agree that it works

@samualadams824 3 года назад

Anyone that watches this I recommend watch all of ranch fairy’s videos about penetration and foc after this. And Ashby said multiple things were more important that the shape of the broad head lol

@chasewaybright8766 3 года назад

You are right on that and I have personally ashby‘s suggestions for maximum penetration and honestly I would say that the broad head is probably the most important part along with overall mass weight but you can certainly get away with a relatively low weight arrow shooting these kinds of broad heads at the end of the day everybody’s free to their own opinions I just wish we could all agree that rage also known as the king of the flappers sucks except for the 25% of the time that they work like magic

@matthewkyle2534 3 года назад

Ranch fairy is a clown. No thanks. I will listen to elk hunter about elk hunting, not a pig hunter.

@YonderWizerd 3 года назад

@@matthewkyle2534 exactly!

@timl8302 Год назад

@@chasewaybright8766 I agree.

@chadwoodward2402 Год назад

Excessive energy and over kill are two things that don't exist when you're trying to take something's life with a bow. Accurate, lethal and strong are what I'm looking for. The Doppler radar proved the energy at the bow is useless! When arrows over 600 grains hit with more retained energy at 60 yds then the light arrow left the bow with. Your speed and energy erosion is terrible on the light arrow at distance. Great videos as always. Both very knowledgeable archers.

@timothyhall963 3 года назад

Thank you. Your exactly right. It depends on what your shooting as to your set up I mostly shoot dense woods white tail ,boar so I run a 650 grain 29% foc 28in draw I'm flying at 250 fps. but with that said I will not shoot beyond 40 yds in fact all of my kills are 20 and in from a ground blind ezv ranges for me. But if I'm going to Colorado or Wyoming for mule deer or elk antelope then I'll run 450 grains at 290 fps it's all about perspective on where and what your hunting.

@thehuntingpressure 2 года назад

Fuckin A right this dude gets it.

@justinreynolds3167 Год назад

You’ll regret that decision on elk when you hit bone.

@timl8302 Год назад

@@justinreynolds3167 Possibly. But, Elk & Mule deer seem to be stupid when shot at. Like Whitetail deer & hogs. But, hey look at the range & numbers of Whitetail & pigs. Whitetail can be found way up in Canada to Peru east & western USA & Canada. In many states pigs are at the eradication stage/level. Elk can be found in a few states in the east. Numbers are doing well but, kinda small.

@rileyoneil2978 3 года назад

"I am not convinced that you can shoot an elk through the shoulder with anything” My 300 point weight arrow says otherwise.

@tradrodsandcustoms 3 года назад

Yep happens all the time

@tylerjones1814 3 года назад

Question: Has MFJJ done a video of his exact arrow build? He has the same specs as me, 70lbs at 30”. I build and fletch my own arrows but I have trouble building an arrow with foc in the range you guys promote (13-15%) that is lighter than 500 grains that actually tunes well for me. Love the videos.

@trevorhulsey2659 3 года назад

I’d love to know what arrows he is using, i don’t know of any that are a light enough gpi to give you that weight when he is running 160gr up front and a lighted nock. He has to have an arrow around 7gpi for that and I would think it would then be underspined to add 160 to the front at that point. That’s a video I hope he will do now that he’s growing his channel

@SoDakHorizon 3 года назад

Love this discussion!! Great work guys!

@brokenarrow6491 2 года назад

I shoot a similar set up you guys are describing but on whitetails only not elk but I blow threw everything with it using under a 400 grain arrow. My bow is tuned and it hits hard. Thanks for sharing your experiences with this. Like you said it's not just one thing. It's a combination of things. I've been bow hunting since the early 70s and the setup I have now is the best Ive ever used for whitetails.

@danielbridgford3887 3 года назад

Same basic principles apply to all setups. Momentum gives you penetration not KE. Traditional bows prove that.

@colfaxmingo 3 года назад

Which implies momentum is a product of mass, not speed, right? That is something trad guys just naturally rely on.

@arctolith 3 года назад

@@colfaxmingo momentum in simple terms is mass*velocity. KE in 1/2*mass*velocity^2. So for the KE, velocity is more important. For momentum, both are equally important.

@timl8302 Год назад

@@colfaxmingo Momentum is force vectored.

@jtj1908 3 года назад

These conversations are very helpful. Thanks, guys.

@nmgreg11 3 года назад

Awesome, buddy and I drew 1st bow elk in the Gila, NM. Quitting job Thursday to scout full time (gotta get your priorities right). Friday will be at pro shop for final tuning. Still tweaking arrow and this vid helps so much. Thank You!! Soooo amped!!!

@lymanclark5537 3 года назад

All of Ashby's testing results are based on what the ARROW does after it leaves the bow. Not what bow it was shot from. A couple guys that have killed a few big game animals in comparison to a man that conducted years of studies on the subject of penetration and lethal arrows on hundreds of animals are now trying to debunk his results. Ashby and Troy Fowler both tell you to shoot the best arrow you can for strength, arrow flight and penetration. The over 600 grain arrows are only talked about when the need for breaking bones on large game is of interest or needed. You are not even telling what is correct in Ashby's reports. If a 500 grain arrow or 450 grain arrow is what shoots best for you then shoot it but "follow the steps" for the best arrow build. I guess traditional hunters should only hunt in the East because they can't shoot 70 yards "Out West" or can they with a 250 grain total arrow weight....makes sense right?

@austinhall5933 2 года назад

As per the Ashby site the SUGGESTED arrow weight for white tail is 600, though it says 400 is acceptable.

@joshsherbon1032 3 года назад

Iam just a whitetail hunter here in Iowa. But I love your channel and the information you guys provide. THANK YOU.

@roetru 3 года назад

Thank you guys for this video

@puckdrummer 3 года назад

Love this vids and that y'all are attempting to address the topic. No hate just some points to consider. The first part of your arrow drop video was with arrows that were under spined according to the heavy FOC approach so not exactly a fair test of arrow drop as stiffness is what helps trajectory. In this video most of your points are anecdotal and the points you are attempting to counter are not complete represented accurately. Still enjoyed the vid and convo. Oh also your points for arrow drop were about trajectory at 40 to 60 yards. How often have you taken shots on Elk at those distances? Loving the convo, really hoping y'all get the Ranch Fairy on here for some discussion.

@rrr3r2 3 года назад

My set up is 425 grain set up at 295 feet per second and still had an antelope jump my arrow last year at 60 yards yet drilled a mule deer at 54 yards and had a pass thru. Find what works for you! Also had pass thrus on elk too. Also shoot, shoot, and shoot. I hate seeing people start shooting 2 weeks before hunting season starts. Also be prepared to see more people bow hunting this year because of the lack of ammo.

@Lucas-jy7cv 3 года назад

That's why I'm getting my second bow today. I can shoot shoot shoot

@timl8302 Год назад

Yeah, Elk & Mule deer seem to stand there & watch the arrow hit them. I guess Pronghorn are like Whitetails & & pigs.

@rrr3r2 Год назад

@@timl8302 antelope will jump your string. They also have really good eye sight. They also usually live in wide open areas. Getting close to an antelope is hard, getting close is usually 30-40 yards. I’ve been archery hunting in Wyoming for 9 years still haven’t gotten one

@donovanstockton44 2 года назад

Very good video. My own experience moving from 430 grains to 500 was that my bow was quieter and more importantly my arrows stopped breaking and taking hook turns in whitetail deer. I’m only drawing 29” on a Mathews VXR 31.5 @70# so I guess im sacrificing some speed. But all I hear these days is speed is overrated.

@theincredible9168 Год назад

Your arrow was taking hook turns because you fail to bare shaft tune your arrows.

@craighunt1628 3 года назад

For me between 644 and 444 grain arrow there is 7 inches difference at 40 yards

@craigpepper4779 3 года назад

Thanks Guys. Really good talk, I enjoyed how Josh breaks the Subject of FoC down. Makes one think differently, thanks.

@dannyb7847 3 года назад

Was waiting for this one!!

@josephdipietro8367 3 года назад

yes! find what works for you. all this is knowledge and advice, ABT. thank you fellas.

@ElkShape 3 года назад

ABT

@jacobbrazell8684 3 года назад

Awesome video guys!

@outdoorsmustbe 3 года назад

Totally agree with you guys! I'm in the 430 range this year.

@bretheckenberger6044 3 года назад

Thank you for this video!!

@greggaston6906 3 года назад

Love the breakdown- In our neck of the woods A BALANCED approach is the best solution. 420gr to 460gr total package will get pass thru on all, provided I dont hit offside shoulder on Elk. Offside on deer and bear, Blowin thru!! Finding best all around performance for you, your bow, and application is most important. I hunt same species, same general areas as Elk Shape and Podium and SVA has never steered me wrong- So, Im goin with these guys cuz it works (well)!!

@redbeard_outdoors 3 года назад

Great info!!!!

@everythingballistic8812 Год назад

The market/media makes it seem like you need a super bow I’m 15 have a 27in draw length with a cheap 45lb bow. Got a clean pass through on a whitetail with a 350gr arrow.

@singlestringstruggler1988 3 года назад

I’m currently shooting 712 grains out of my longbow. I have a max of 30 yards for a shot that I’ll take on a live animal.

@loopmtz 3 года назад

Sweet.. Thanks for sharing...

@stevenpritchard4427 Год назад

You guys are awesome I get so much information from you. I'm 61 years I shoot a Mathews z7 at 65lbs. With vap tko. 400 grains.

@zachwright397 3 года назад

I feel like you haven’t watched much of the ranch fairy’s videos, he preaches proper arrow flight first before heavy arrows. I totally get the trajectory argument though, I’m building a lighter arrow for antelope this fall.

@ElkShape 3 года назад

Yes.. you bet. This is just practical in the field experience talk for elk hunting. - TC

@tradrodsandcustoms 3 года назад

@@ElkShape obviously you don’t know Shannon mobs or Corey Ford....

@terrymccleery3497 6 месяцев назад

Great info. Thank you.

@robbiewilson7907 3 года назад

I love this video!! I killed my bull with a 420 grain arrow at 25 yards last year with a 70# bow and had a complete pass through. this year I've decided to go a little heavier since I'm pulling more weight so we will see if I keep it that way or not. Love starting my week of with your videos!!

@vancejohnson1778 3 года назад

I agree!! I shot 425 grain and I'm shooting deer, bear moose and elk and always get a pass through unless I hit off side shoulder! Even on the moose

@jonbrown9490 Год назад

Good video. One thing, with regard to the Ashby stuff, that never seems to get talked about is shaft diameter. I'm pretty sure most of the research was done with a tapered 23/64th hardwood shaft. That's a wholly different animal than a micro diameter carbon with a ballistic collar when it comes to penetration. There is a major difference in the surface area of a larger shaft and the amount of drag that it puts on the arrow. Yes, tapering helps on bone but not really on soft tissue. Personally, I'm a trad guy, and I shoot both wood and carbon arrows. I can say for a fact that to get the level of penetration I see with something like a blackeagle instinct shaft at 550-580gr, I need to shoot a 650gr + woodshaft, and even then it's iffy. Of course, you don't shoot wood shafts because they work better, but that's a different discussion. All that being said, I think if the discussion about FOC and weight gets more people to actually think about tuning their gear, then it's a good thing.

@timl8302 Год назад

Shaft profile is rule #8: Yes, tapered =1, Parallel = 2nd .Barrel =3rd... I understand. I haven't gone out of my way to find a tapered shaft either. Ashby's Rule #5 "There is a substantial INCREASE in penetration when the shaft of an arrow is at least 5% smaller in diameter than the back of the broadhead’s ferrule. Likewise, there is a substantial LOSS in penetration when the shaft diameter is larger than the back of the broadhead’s ferrule."...... Which really appeals to those that shoot the .166s & .204s. I can see that. Try reading his 12 Rule of Penetration. Many/maybe 1/2 you might agree with. His reports are sometimes long & physics heavy. They go into the 2000s years (Not just the 1998 Natal Study). His foundation has a 2021 Cape Buffalo Report [Using Compound Bows]. It's under 'Supplemental Reports'.. www.ashbybowhunting.org/ashby-reports www.ashbybowhunting.org/12-arrow-penetration-factors (DSC Links don't work: Correct link: www.biggame.org/?s=ashby)

@shepherd8203 3 года назад

Am glad you guys are still doing this. I seen one with a different shop and I thought you guy divorced. Always good info.

@ElkShape 3 года назад

More to come!

@patrickhaney7540 3 года назад

Neither one of you are what I would consider average. Josh has a longer than average draw. Dan is short however shoots a higher draw weight than average. I like to listen to everyone's opinions. Personally I think the Ranch Fairy has done a ton for modern day bow hunters. If nothing else he has made people think about their arrow set ups and how well tuned the bow is. What about Structural integrity? Lighter arrows also shed velocity faster than a heavy arrow. Shooting inside of 40 yards the trajectory is not that dramatic. There is substitute for keeping shots ethical. 90% of bow hunters have no business shooting beyond 40 yards.

@royhoglund1322 3 года назад

Great info! And good job putting MFJJ on the spot! So, now at 64 years old I can no longer shoot a 70lb bow comfortably and consistently. I shoot a 60lb bow and a draw length of 27 inches. My arrow set up is an Easton Axis Match with 50gr HIT insert and a 100gr Iron Will with an impact collar. Your thoughts?

@richarddean3154 3 года назад

thank you for the great video. In your opinion, what is the threshold for minimum arrow weight, wherein the arrow is less likely to fail because it is too light? Is it 420 grains or somewhere less than that?

@njd624 3 года назад

Awesome info guys! Really appreciate the logical and scientific based explanation!

@papaschuette 8 месяцев назад

I just have to point to the 3:21 mark of the video. Dan's face when hearing "2 inch mechanical" is priceless. Now back to the subject of the video. I've been watching a lot of videos on what, people smarter than me suggest, the "Proper" arrow setup is. From super light (under 400gr) to super heavy (over 600gr). And I've come to the conclusion that, being somewhere around the middle 400's, is probably the best. For me. Provided you have a bow that is in spec and in tune. With the correct broadhead, arrow stiffness, and around 15% FOC. I'm at a 30 inch draw length and around 60lb draw weight on my Bear Legit. And a GT Hunter XT 340 cut to 28.25 inches coming in at 469gr is a sweet spot for me. 125gr Stinger Buzzcut 4 blade broadhead with a 50gr insert up front. With Blazer vanes in a 3 fletch max left helical and a Nocturnal lighted nock on the back end. This is for whitetail deer only. I may be switching to a .204 diameter arrow after this season. Shoot for about 450gr with 18 ish FOC.

@JS-ji5bl 2 года назад

Josh knows about archery glad I found you guys on the tube ...Josh aka Archery wizard..,

@ElkShape 2 года назад

he's the G

@brendans5179 3 года назад

One thing people sometime forget is that some bows will have sweet spots for arrow weight and noise. Some bows need heavier arrows than others to be quieter. Also a slower arrow means less noise from vanes and broadhead etc. It's just all about where you draw the line. I do like speed though.

@nateboulter804 3 года назад

Absolutely agree! I have had this argument so many times it's mind numbing. It's funny how you can see how important the arrow actually is and it also shows how much hype is in bows we shoot today. If ur gonna shoot a 600 grain arrow like all the aluminum arrows we shot when I was a kid, you will still only shoot as fast as we did 20+ years ago and you negate the advancement in arrow materials which allow you to shoot lighter, faster and yes- stronger! Flat trajectory wins! I'm in AZ and I dont even run a 20 yard pin cuz everything is at distance. Nice video guys! Love the content!

@1989inception 3 года назад

I also live in AZ I have a 20 yard pin but only because of rabbits lol

@timl8302 Год назад

You do know lighter faster arrows shed velocity & energy faster than heavier arrows ( physics of Drag). Also, the difference between the impact of a 400gr arrow & a 600gr arrow at 60yrs is .1 seconds. In Radar testing A 388gr arrow lost -35fps & 616gr arrow lost -17fps. / KE 388gr went from around 74 -58ft-lbs & 610gr= -78 to 68ft-lbs . Those aluminum arrows also got more pass troughs & penetration too.

@frankbowne4667 3 года назад

Great video!!!

@montuckyman4982 3 года назад

# 1 is shot placement,( we use rangefinders when possible right? If we don't have get a range at certain distances, maybe we don't have a shot?) But, yeah, flatter trajectory helps here for sure. #2 is arrow system that won't break, including a solid broadhead, arrow interface. #3 is perfect arrow flight. (.has much more affect on penetration than even weight, within reason) #4 is use the highest weight arrow that gives you arrow flight trajectory that you can live with. ( You already figured that out) Further down the list is efoc and broadhead design but these are what everyone gets focused on first. I guess they are kinda sexy. But tuning efoc ( for perfect flight, see #2) can bring major headaches . Its tough to tune out tail high bareshaft flight. The measurement of momentum is the best one for getting an idea of penetration ability. KE gives speed wayyy too much credit. Bottom line is , a moderate weight arrow, that won't break, with a sharp,tough broadhead, placed in the lungs will kill any elk. Everything has tradeoffs and if you go too far in either extreme, I'm willing to bet you find yourself swinging back towards the middle. But I like that the middle seems to have gotten a bit heavier and stronger👍😁

@ElkShape 3 года назад

What up archers? Dan Staton here from ElkShape - I don't have a ton of time to comb through all the comments, but we always appreciate the support and thoughtful CONVERSATION ... This was not a DISSERTATION on our part. All my "anecdotal" narrative is just from my experience killing a lot of bulls in the last 14 seasons, I have been bowhunting for 19 seasons. That's not to impress you, but to impress upon you that I have a lot of reps elk hunting with bow tackle. I don't care what you shoot or what arrow you use. You don't have to care what I use or shoot. If you want a public platform to showcase your opinions, make your own RU-vid Channel - it's free to do! I respect MFJJ's opinions and RF's opinions, it doesn't matter if we all agree either...cuz we don't! Lastly, key takeaways are - do what's best for you and your style of hunting... choose what gives you the most confidence. Accuracy is supreme, but we don't live in a perfect world. Heavy is good, expansive arrow trajectory is challenging for out West applications like elk hunting. I prefer FIXED broadheads based on experience but you do you! On the last video (Part 1) - we said on the video that we understood that spine could make the results vary but remember my arrows are stiff as I cut them ridiculously short. Again, thanks for tuning in and stay tuned for an Aron Snyder interview that will address this topic from a guy who kills more animals than anyone else I know. -Dan

@ThatJamesGuy88 3 года назад

Kudos to both you and MFJJ for putting yourselves out there. The one point I wish y’all would have addressed is structural integrity. Since Josh shoots light weight arrows, I’d love to know how they hold up on impact. Here’s hoping he puts out a hunting arrow build this year.

@AZHighlandHomestead 3 года назад

Appreciate you Dan. I disagree with others, but want to hear their opinions so I don’t just sit in an echo chamber. Shooting 70lbs, 27.5” DL, 28.5” shaft, 550gr TAW, 200gr VPA COC fixed 3 blade, and 50gr insert. 18% FOC and shooting great out of my bow. Not planning to shoot deer/elk/pronghorn here in AZ past 35yds. Animals move at the last second even at short distances, I’d like a good chance of killing them still if they move right when I release.

@WilliamAM43 3 года назад

From what I have heard from the other guy you are referencing your opinions are actually not all that different. He even tells people to shoot a lighter arrow if it flies better. I think he even did a video telling people not to get caught up on the 600 grain arrow saga, maybe reach out to him and just have a discussion video. I think balance is where it is at myself.

@ElkShape 3 года назад

@@ThatJamesGuy88 I know what ya mean - one year I tried some lighter stuff (relative) on spring bear, they got the job done but they broke ... I had 2 bear tags filled and 2 broken arrows.

@kevinfox2370 3 года назад

I’ve been going down this exact rabbit hole for weeks. This helps tremendously. Thank you team Elk Shape.

@myronriggs9613 Год назад

Wonderful video! What brand and model of arrow would you recommend or suggest? Thank you. And can I order from you

@BWB-vb9xb 3 года назад

"Over kill" and bow hunting, not really sure those two terms can be used together accurately. And no one promotes building a heavy arrow "blindly". You two actually promote the same principles as the RF. Your mixing up the message between heavy arrows and high FOC. You both have high FOC arrows ~15%. The Extreme and Ultra FOC builds are different. This would have been better if you talked about treestand/whitetail hunters having arrow builds for out west and how to get high FOC builds with lower TAW and the trajectory benefits.

@westurney110 Год назад

I feel like people like to forget that once the arrow is in flight (perfect flight) it doesn’t know what type of bow shot it. It has its speed and it’s weight and that’s it. You can calculate the kinetic energy with those numbers or the momentum and it’s doesn’t matter which. When the arrow hits the animal, it will do the job or it won’t. Light/fast arrow people always say the same thing…” it works IF you hit what you’re aiming at, accuracy is key.” And, heavy/slow arrow people always say, “animals move, you need an arrow that will perform if it hits something unplanned (i.e., a heavy bone)”. The Ranch Fairy puts it best. If you can put that arrow through soft tissue every time, shoot whatever you want. If you think the animal has a vote, think about an arrow set up that will perform under pan B scenarios. So what’s your skill level/philosophy? Are you a frickin’ laser that hits exactly what you’re aiming at every time? Or do you think the animal can change your shot every time? P.S. - FMJJ sounds like he could use a refreshing on the rankings of Ashby’s 12 factors. Also, Ashby’s data on penetration of heavy bones is pretty thoroughly documented. I don’t think we have to “believe” in whether arrows can penetrate elk shoulders or not. They can, if you have a 12 factor arrow. It’s been documented.

@caleb6048 2 года назад

I love how your buddy starts talking about how he doesn’t think anything is shooting through an elk shoulder no matter how heavy, and then a few minutes later you recount how you shot through an elk shoulder. 🤦‍♂️ I also love how this guy keeps misquoting Ashby and mis-representing all of his views throughout the entire video. Quite entertaining lol

@paulg.gerard4804 2 года назад

nice work!

@allanjohansen9870 3 года назад

Could you test the same by increasing arrow weight without changing the FOC? Will the trajectory drop as much with same FOC across different weights

@alexfabian4244 2 года назад

the way i see it, around 280fps is about the max speed that fixed blades fly well at, so i'm aiming for that speed for trajectory. By drawing 75lbs at 29.5 inch draw length, the arrow setup that got me the closest to that speed is 560grns @275fps.

@itsmisterbojangles 3 года назад

Last bull... 50 yards, expandable broadhead, clean pass through plus 20-30 more feet of arrow flight, 375 grain arrow. 70 lbs, 29”

@christianmullins435 3 года назад

The other day I saw one of your videos where you ask MFJJ if he nock tunes his arrows and neither if you knew what nock tuning was. nock tuning is synonymous with spine indexing so that the stiff side of the arrow is lined up with the nock, do ya’ll worry with spine indexing or do you just throw the nock in the arrow, fletch it, and send it

@dubstylee444 3 года назад

Thanks for making this video guys. RU-vid has blown up with heavy arrow vids and its good to see the other side. of the coin. Im in the process of building a lighter arrow setup. Im currently shooting a 535 gr arrow and I'm building an arrow closer to 440 gr. This gives me confidence in what I'm doing because I'm trying to get that flatter trajectory. Im only shooting 60 lbs and with a 30" draw length it hard to keep my arrow weight low enough to maintain speed.

@JW-uj3we 2 года назад

Well, I wonder how Chuck Adams was so successful with such slow recurves and early compounds then? Must have been the ultimate Ninja, yeah baby!

@joshuaramirez7193 2 года назад

Awsome video, I think it’s just preference and what your strong points as a hunter are.. I shoot a 80 pound pse, my arrow weight is 580 grain flying at 265, my bow is quiet and tuning is a breeze. My draw length is only 27 inches. I can shoot out to a 100 yards really accurate with vpa broadheads and Daysix and iron wills.I am not saying a 400 grain arrow won’t get the job done, but if I am happy with my speed, and the arrow tunes awesome why not shoot a heavy arrow. I have shot mule deer in Az and broke the knuckle and the onside shoulder and never found the arrow. Not saying I 400 grain arrow won’t do that, but I don’t want to chance it..

@yle8708 2 года назад

So, I'm a newbie bow hunter. When putting together an arrow is there a significant difference in broadhead weight vs using a weighted insert in regards to achieving your FOC percentage?

@RobertKearl-Outdoor-Adventures 3 года назад

Arrows for this year for me are 682 grains with a 125 grain single bevel broad head 17% foc spine aligned to the nock and cock vane 3 fletched right helical to match the bevel on the broad head as well . My bow this year is a Prime Nexus 2 set at 80lbs 28.5 inch draw length

@commoncorysense1809 Год назад

Sweet, should have no issue getting complete pass throughs on any hybrids including those quartering to or away

@timharrelson7797 3 года назад

I've been playing around with the foc thing. And have decided an Easton axis 340 with 50 grains of brass and 125 head . My draw at 26.5 and around 60 pounds of draw currently. Tried a 500 grain arrow in comparison with the axis. Surprisingly the axis out penetrate the heavier one . Used a new block target. Finshed weight of the axis was close to 450. So alot of what ur saying i find to be true

@ngiovanni13 2 года назад

i'm trying to figure out how 420g arrows are safe to shoot on a 30" draw and 15% FOC. Whats that combo? I felt using axis 340s was underspined with 10% FOC and weighed in at 410g

@tonyezolt4560 Год назад

Everybody is trying to figure that out. Wonder why they don't show this arrow build? After all, what Ashby and Todd emphasize way more than overall arrow mass, is FOC, weight up front.

@andysmith8295 3 года назад

When i started bow hunting and finally drew a bull tag- i got lucky and shot one. This goes back to 2009 and no one really talking about arrows back then nor did i have the most experience with compounds or arrows. I shot my 2007 hoyt vulcan at 27" DL, 65 lbs with a Gold tip XT hunter/400 spine with a Slick Trick standard 100g/ i had a FOB on the end of the arrow.. that arrow weighs 376 grains and foc is 11.7%. I shot broadside into the elk at 18 yds and the arrow went completely thru and another 10 yds.. i couldnt believe where the arrow went. The industry went wild with expandables and alot of people started failing. This is the reason for the RF popularity.. What he hunts is done best with his set up. I agree with Elk Shape- meet in the middle and keep tinkering.

@05Dmax_LLY 3 года назад

I think a lot of people dont understand the context of the Ashby studies as well. Not only was it conducted with traditional archery equipment, but it was done to prove large African dangerous game could be taken with that equipment and essentially legalize traditional archery hunting in Africa. All that combined, of course they're going to use heavy arrows with high FOC. Here in North America, we don't need those crazy arrow setups. Still good information but it's not the end all for a perfect setup.

@clintwalker7690 Год назад

I watch you channel and the ranch fairy. I am comfortable with 40 years of watching animals die in sight. There are points I love about the ranch fairy. Sharp broad heads are a must. I don't enjoy tracking game. I love knowing I made a good shot. I love knowing that I did everything possible to insure an animal I put a broad head through finds the best demise possible. I shoot a two blade broad head. Don't be lazy, sharpen your broad head.

@clintwalker7690 Год назад

Are we talking quarting to or quartering away?

@clintwalker7690 Год назад

I agree! Animals move.

@clintwalker7690 Год назад

Computer generated sight tape does not match my setup.

@clintwalker7690 Год назад

It is not about broad heads, it is about each hunter and his or her desire. Each hunter can not agree with everything you believe..

@clintwalker7690 Год назад

I agree about spine. I tested it too many years with a longbow.

@C-23_ 3 года назад

Edit-typo I agree I wouldn't want to sacrifice much trajectory while elk hunting. But the physics behind arrow weight and penetration is true. Josh keeps mentioning energy. Energy isn't the best measurement for arrow penetration, it works well with bullets but not arrows. Momentum is what you want to be looking at and weight increases momentum by alot. Just because Ashby used a traditional bow doesn't change the physics of penetration when changing to a compound bow. I'm not saying everyone needs a 650 grain arrow I'm just saying the physics isn't wrong

@matthewkyle2534 3 года назад

The physics isn’t wrong no, and your spot on about kinetic energy being a silly representation of lethality. Momentum is where it’s at. And traditional bows are terribly inefficient. So while a traditional bow might need to shoot a 650 grain arrow to get the momentum, a more efficient bow might not need the weight to generate the momentum.

@C-23_ 3 года назад

@@matthewkyle2534 agreed 👍

@waynemorris1999 3 года назад

I agree that the physics are the same no matter what bow slings the arrow. Once it leaves the barrel....Sorry, string. The arrow no longer cares what launched it. I have found one arrow ballistics calculator online and many of the arrow setups I’ve been reading don’t reach the minimum “recommended” momentum for elk. Do you know if any arrow ballistics calculators? And why do states have a minimum rifle caliber for elk but nothing for arrows?

@theNadeFace 2 года назад

Hearing about the 3-1 broadhead ratio reminds me of the Cutthroat broadheads. The shop I go to is Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear in Denver and they designed those heads. I would love to hear both of you pick their brain sometime. Especially because Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear is heavy recurve but also compound. Most of the guys there hunt both but prefer to recurve. Thank you for the breakdown! Brain sponged it all.

@RobertWilliams82-22 3 года назад

I can’t remember my exact weight but I shoot a 300 spine gold tip Airstrike with an extra 20 grains behind the factory components with 100 grain tip... cut 27.75” .... I think it’s around 440 with the nocturnal... that was out my prime at 65#’s with 27.5 draw... flys like a dart and very strong arrows... little lighter shaft then your axis

@RobertWilliams82-22 3 года назад

Just try those arrows one day, I’m pretty sure that you would be impressed Dan

@timgruver5932 Год назад

Use the flattest trajectory arrow with at least 14-15% FOC. Use a fixed head ( with smaller bleeders?) . It’s simple. The more draw weight the higher finished arrow weight. If you can only pull 60#’ @ 28” the FINISHED arrow weight will be lighter. AND AND! You have got to know your arrows trajectory drop at various distances, especially with a single pin.

@matthewchown8576 3 года назад

What is MFJJ's arrow length and spine on a 420 set up?

@bobbylewis1966 3 года назад

Is your FOC measurement the AMO standard or the gold tip calculator? I think there’s about 2% difference between the two FOC measuring formulas. I’m curious because I want to try mfjj’s 15% FOC recommendation because that sounds like a good medium between light and heavy arrows for my long draw length.

@caninphx 3 года назад

That's the same FOC I strive for. Currently launching 595grains arrows, although I may take the lighted nocks out to bring it down to 570 grains. As I really like the flight characteristics of 550 grain arrows. I shot 450grains and that was like a laser beam out to 100yds. Was crazy how fast it was and flatter trajectory. Kind of miss that setup.

@Angel.Custodio 3 года назад

I like to cut my arrows to 28 inches. I have a hard time getting 14-15 percent FOC and not having an arrow over 500 grains. Any recommendations?

@whitetailtherapy7908 3 года назад

Maybe look into 300 spine pure carbon arrow with 50 grain insert and 100 grain broadhead. You should be more in that 440 grain area and get into that % range or close to it

@salbattaglia4591 3 года назад

BRING ELK SHAPE TO LOUISIANA/MISSISSIPPI/ALABAMA/FLORIDA! The good ole boys will travel for elk. For someone like myself not knowing anything about elk hunting, I’d get a lot out of your camp. Hope to see y’all down here one day!

@user-ec2gc6fo9i 8 месяцев назад

Great video i always enjoy hearing the wide range of opinions on this topic. I wish more people would focus on being proficient with whatever set up they choose. Keep in mind were all trying to find the perfect arrow cocktail for our game but in reality none of that matters if you suck and cant execute a controlled shot when it matters.

@300blackout4 3 месяца назад

Yes the Ashby reports were studied with the majority of longbows, and early compound bows. So the extra speed of the modern bows is only going to add to the effectiveness of an arrow that follows all 12 factors of the Ashby report

@timgruver5932 3 года назад

I'm doing like you-short DL. 456 grain Black Eagle Carnivores and Magnus Black Hornet serrated. 271 fps. Blows through hogs like butter at 24-28 yards max. Being honest I have never passed through BOTH shield plates. Never had the correct angle for that hit. One-yea! Good video and some excellent information. Used to 360 grain arrow at 289 fps. with higher DL but getting old (70) and don't like 65#s any more

@jlapp 3 года назад

I've been watching a ton of Ranch Fairy videos and I really like his personality and have been thinking hard about what he's saying. I also watch a ton of Elk Shape and Podium archery videos because like y'all I'm more about Elk than Blacktail, but I enjoy hunting both. I'm new to the Archery game, so I'm trying to get all the information I can. Based on some of my reading the GPP number for an arrow goes up based on your draw weight. I think you touch on that when you mention Ashby shooting a traditional bow (I think RF shoots at 63#). So, my impression is there is some validity to the heavy arrow thing if you are not able to shoot 70-80#. I've been thinking about this because I've recently dislocated my shoulder as well as turning 50, so I'm not sure I'll be able to shoot 70# this year or even going forwards, so I think to that point if I'm shooting a 55-60# setup, I would need to shoot a heavier arrow to compensate. Do you agree with that? I probably have to come to terms with I'm giving up yardage either way.

@matthewkyle2534 3 года назад

You are missing the point that Ashby was using an inefficient traditional bow. If you shoot a a compound bow you will still generate more momentum. Who gives a shit about kinetic energy, useless value when talking about archery and arrows. Depending how far you shoot will determine how much trajectory your willing to sacrifice. Pig ranch guy isn’t shooting very far so he doesn’t mind an arrow that drops like a rock. Out west we want something that shoots a little flatter.

@jlapp 3 года назад

No, I understand the points being made and the trajectory argument makes a ton of sense, what I'm asking is what if you are pulling less weight? What I've read about GPP is that as the weight goes down the GPP goes up. Is that also "outdated" or does that still apply to a lesser degree with modern bows? At the moment I'm leaning towards mid to high 400 grain arrows with my V3 31 setup at about 57lbs. Hopefully, my shoulder continues to improve and I can get back up to 70lb mods, but for this year's Elk Season I'm going to stick with this setup.

@zanenewton6946 3 года назад

I believe in heavier arrows with lighter draw weight. . . . Dr Ashby’s and the Ranch Fairy speak of perfect arrow flight, arrow structural integrity, and shoot the heaviest arrow you can build that gives you an acceptable trajectory. As much of the arrow weight as you can manage should come from the point as possible (high FOC). This is a formula for an efficient arrow. Over kill is the goal in my mind.

@matthewkyle2534 3 года назад

I think too many people get hung up on this Ashby report. People need to keep in mind he was trying to provide a study to convince countries to allow archery for their big game. We’re talking elephants, giraffes, hippos, and all the other big and moderate sized game. Keep in mind this was also with traditional equipment. So you might only get like 180 feet per second. So yeah your going to have to figure out how to get some momentum. Today’s bows are a little different. You don’t need to shoot such a heavy projectile to get the momentum you need. Your shooting like 280 feet per second. Just my opinion. You can kill an animal just as dead shooting a 440 grain arrow or a 410 grain arrow as a 600 grain arrow. Will the heavier arrow have more momentum, yeah. But when a 410-440 arrow will blow through an elk and you can use one pin for 0-30 yards,,,, yeah buddy. I like that.

@waynemorris1999 3 года назад

@@zanenewton6946 there is an article on line about speed vs weight. They actually use math and measurements to gain data. Not anecdotal accounts. Also, look up the hunting public. They go through an arrow build. He then gets a pass through (frontal shot, front to back) on a bull. 60# draw and under 30” draw. Their arrow journey is what convinced me to rethink my arrow setup.

@JohnLee-vj9lh 2 года назад

Question, how would these arrows handle bigger and tougher game animals?? In my experience heavier arrows and fixed blade heads I’ve had no trouble losing game’ from soft game animals such as deer, goats, foxes, hares, rabbits etc, and same with thicker skin animals such as pigs etc, but it comes with a well tuned bow and the right arrow shot placement and most of important is practicing with broadheads

@Z33Garage Год назад

The Fairy is correct. Heavy is key.

@saxophone_mockingbird6480 3 года назад

I was so excited for this one!!

@colincampbell-bussier1018 Год назад

Thank you for a very reasonable rebuttal to ranch fairy. I’ve definitely drank his kool-Aid but I’m strictly north east deer hunter. My set up is just over 600 grains. But My longest shot I’ve ever taken was 35 yards and my goal is to keep my shots distance to 20 yard and in. I know my arrow build is over kill but it was nice to hear y’all affirm my choice considering my short ranges. If I ever get a chance to hunt out west I will definitely shave 100+ grains off. Thank you for all the amazing archery content it pushes me to be better

@1yanny1 2 месяца назад

I have shot elk and moose with 355 grain arrows with pass throughs (70 lbs, 28.5” draw, 315 fps). The biggest moose was shot at 50 yards with a Shuttle T broadhead . I pushed it through the off side scapula (I still have the scapula). 450 grains seems crazy to me… 550 grain pin gap would be insane.

@clintwalker7690 2 года назад

TAC shooting looks incredibly fun! I may shoot a couple of shoots in 2023. I love a challenge. I don't disagree with any part of this video. I shot traditional archery for over 25 years. I shot high mass, high FOC arrows. I still shoot 600 plus grains off of my compound. I can sight 90+ yards. I am not going to shoot a living animal that far. That is not why I bow hunt. My bow is quieter wit heavier arrows. With a high FOC(17-22%) and a well tuned bow and arrow, I have very few animals get out of sight. I bow hunt to challenge myself to be a better hunter. I practice shooting 50-90 yards to be a better shooter. I will keep my 190 grain broad head. I just have to resharpen. Y'all sheep buying mechanicals. I am not mad either way. My freezers are full every year. I might lighten up a little to come shoot foam with you fellows.

@gsnicholas8522 3 года назад

Bow hunting is about how close you can get, not how far you can shoot. Also, archery is getting your arrow to the intended target. The hunting part begins when the arrow reaches the animal. It sounds to me like you’re advocating using an inferior arrow to compensate for inadequate archery skills. Lastly, you’re spewing false information from the Ashby report. Maybe take the time to actually read the report and understand the information before trying to use it.