Helping Jordan Peterson Conceptualize Christ | Jordan Peterson & Jonathan Pageau

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Watch the full version:
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - Season 4 Episode 8: Jonathan Pageau: • The Perfect Mode of Be...
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24 мар 2021

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Комментарии : 165

@thebeardedhobbit9675 3 года назад

I cannot help but think of CS Lewis' "Long Conversation" with Professor Tolkien. Bless you for posting this, Jonathan.

@maryann7619 3 года назад

I'll have to look that up. The Tolkien/Lewis relationship struck a real cord with mw

@dwightk.schruteiii8454 3 года назад

Peterson is a modern day Lewis.

@stevenbibby5800 2 года назад

@@dwightk.schruteiii8454 Swap philosophy with psychology and throw some Jung in there and that's about right

@j_real21 3 года назад

Hello Jonathan, I am a Catholic and I have been praying for Peterson's healing and conversion. Thank you for leading him closer to our Lord and helping him as well as people like me in understanding the faith through patterns.

@sillygoose4472 2 года назад

Hey I got a dumb question for you. Do Catholics and Orthodox generally get along? I seriously don't know

@MrBeastthing 2 года назад

@@sillygoose4472 Some of my best friends are Orthodox. We agree on a lot. There isn't much difference between the Catholics and Orthodox other than papacy and regional issues.

@CK-dp6je 2 года назад

@@sillygoose4472 yes

@maloxi1472 2 года назад

@@sillygoose4472 Yup

@alexforget Год назад

I feel a lot of people are following along in this journey. Myself I couldn’t imagine where it’s taking me. I have been following JBP for 4-5 years now and I am now connecting to the way Jonathan speak about those things. I can now see the truth in the christian story (in a similar way than Jordan) and can connect more back to religious thinking, still Catholicism seem so corrupt and disconnected from our modern world, Orthodox seems so archaic. But I can see that our current modern path lead nowhere good, we are bound to destroy ourselves if we continue the current way. I still cannot see a way forward for most people around me. (Catholic from Québec, one of the most christian place to one of the less one, more progressive, atheist, etc)

@jlloydb1of9 3 года назад

Anyone who knows a Toronto Maple Leaf hockey fan understands the concept of unwavering faith in times of oppression.

@daves-c8919 3 года назад

Zing

@Dmoney12346 3 года назад

Try being a Detroit lions fan

@kaybrown4010 3 года назад

@@Dmoney12346 Ikr?! 😄

@johnnie2638 3 года назад

Praying for Jordon Peterson. My own path to Christ was rocky & I was brought low, almost to the point of homelessness. But when I had no where else to turn pride was stripped from me & I prayed & accepted Jesus that night. We all walk our own path.

@XYisnotXX 3 года назад

A persuer of truth and reason in a bewildering world is Dr Jordan Peterson.

@XYisnotXX 3 года назад

@nick m. If you say so friend

@solaveritas2 3 года назад

@nick m. Has it occurred to you that to say, "here is truth" and "probably..." don't go together? Either you know it's true or you are guessing. It can't be both.

@0live0wire0 3 года назад

@nick m. yet Christianity exists, so what's your point? What do you know about most historical figures and how much of it do you think is truthful? History has its own agenda and gives limited perspective on past events. You sacrifice accuracy for scope and vice versa.

@cnote3598 2 года назад

Now that you "possess Christ". What does that do for you ??

@deborahstrickland9845 3 года назад

"A power that transcends your ability to resist it."

@jupiter2448 3 года назад

Pray for him. He seems very close to spiritual awakening

@cnote3598 2 года назад

What does that mean ? "Spiritual awakening " and what comes next ?

@larryjake7783 2 года назад

@@cnote3598 Spirtual Awakening is the door opening to the journey of the union with God. What comes next, the journey, the path...and the ever increasing beauty of reality and learning more about your Union for the small amount of years you have on this planet.

@christophermihaly7029 3 года назад

One thing I enjoyed most about this conversation was that Jonathan didn’t interrupt Peterson. He let him come to his own conclusions. He’s so close to admitting his faith. But he can’t be forced to do so.

@st3v0s 3 года назад

One thing I didn’t enjoy was Peterson interrupted Jonathan TOO much. Keep in mind I’m referring to the entire podcast

@maurice5402 3 года назад

@@st3v0s Same here but it's okay. I don't think Jordan noticed he was doing it because he was so involved in those ideas and following the thread

@M5MSMSMSMSMSMSMSMSMS 3 года назад

@@laurag7565 yup I think his wife mentioned sth bout that in a podcast on their daughter's youtube watta neat lil fam

@pantonal 3 года назад

Given our natural disposition for being deeply affected by myth as a way to understand ourselves, it's not unreasonable to expect a creator to reveal his ultimate truths to us through mythic narratives played out, not in fictional stories, but in actual human history.

@nottelling4876 3 года назад

eh I'm a classical Theist and a Thomist and I think why wouldn't God have various levels of truth interact with each other to express the absolute truth of his being

@rusty159753 3 года назад

Thank you Jonathan for being Jordan’s friend. It’s nice to see how relaxed in your presence he is. Thus, he’s more transparent emotionally about his struggles. I wish I could be a supportive friend to Jordan during this season of his life. I am grateful to both of you for helping me understand this very topic of Heaven on earth. I wish we held more things sacred. Be blessed Jonathan.

@07bmarshall 3 года назад

Why can’t you be a supportive friend to Jordan at this time?

@rusty159753 3 года назад

What does that mean? You are saying that as if I have some sort of personal relationship with Jordan to pull from. Why are you asking that?

@07bmarshall 3 года назад

@@rusty159753 What you meant is that you 'wish' you could be supportive as a personal friend? I only didn't understand why you were 'wishing' that you could be supportive. I apologize if I misunderstood.

@rusty159753 3 года назад

@@07bmarshall I support Jordan and Jonathan’s relationship as I can in posts like this because I wish I could be supportive in a similar manner as Jonathan is. Perhaps some day, I would get the opportunity to shake both their hands with gratitude because I have benefitted greatly from both their content. I apologize if that came across as harsh in my response. I was unsure what you meant, and with trolls in abundance these days, my responses tend to be terse and brief.

@alliemw 3 года назад

@RustyPang I feel the same, I want to let him know everything's going to be ok. At the same time I realize the necessity of what he's going through, not just for him but for everyone watching.

@olgakarpushina492 3 года назад

"The world of facts is saturated with utility, value and, therefore, with morality". Wow

@johnnytass2111 3 года назад

Jordan Peterson ended his magnum opus Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief (which was published in 1999-well before his rise in fame) with a dream he had (pages 460-461) of him unwillingly being lifted up and “trapped in a chandelier” high above a dome with people below him very angry at him, he didn’t want to be there but as he tried escaping a wind swept him back up in the chandelier, all he wanted was to “go home” and then he found himself in a small windowless room in the center of his house that was a furnace but the wind kept sweeping him up towards the chandelier, when he awoke he claims he had a vision of a gothic double door facing him, and he was terrified. This dream itself is a metaphor of what is actually happening to Dr. Peterson today-and it has manifested as his own myth and history meeting ontologically in reality, the very thing he cannot yet bring himself to believe in Christ. Believers can call this the Holy Spirit at work, and the double doors are facing him....which door will he choose for all to witness? Be blessed on your journey, fellow truth seekers.

@XYisnotXX 3 года назад

A persuer of truth and reason in a bewildering world is Dr Jordan Peterson.

@cnote3598 2 года назад

Dreams are nonsense dude. Jonathan speaks of how clergy refer to them as chaos. They are. Dreams are nonsense. Relax

@cnote3598 2 года назад

@@XYisnotXX and me too

@XYisnotXX 2 года назад

@@cnote3598 Perhaps the nonsense comes from some place else!

@cnote3598 2 года назад

@@XYisnotXX it doesn't come from anywhere. It just is. Relax. Stop looking for meaning where there is none

@artura9712 3 года назад

Praise be to our Lord! Anyone who seeks, finds (Luke 11:10). Christ is the ultimate truth, the path and the way!

@patwillsy 3 года назад

I always thought that his understanding of reality and objective truth was fascinating but lacked the beauty of the deepest reality in the totality of Christ as the third Person, our Savior, who has an intimate relationship with humanity. As a Catholic, I prayed for him and am grateful for all the insights he gives with such purity and caring.

@fakename3208 2 года назад

As someone pulled back to Catholicism through Peterson I see where he’s coming from. It’s hard to make that leap. It feels like that’s the point where the intellect stops and you just have to “believe.”

@paulet990 2 года назад

I love hearing Jonathan and Jordan talk together.

@bonitabaldwin8336 3 года назад

Tolle lege is my prayer for Jordan Peterson! God will open and speak precisely what Jordan needs! 🙏

@carluyabut1461 3 года назад

This is beautiful. Jordan is starting to see Him, the narrative turned objective, the Word turned Flesh. The search for Wisdom leads one closer to God.

@stefanielorimer9693 Год назад

praying for Jordan continuously .... and again earlier tonight. He is so loved. Oh God, do not let him slip through the cracks.

@Cherub-vl9bc 3 года назад

We cannot produce faith as much as a corpse can raise from the death. Thats why we need God to ask for faith -John Piper

@ddubbull 3 года назад

I can't imagine the difficulty in being so tuned to psychology and battling with its restrictions when it comes to faith and God. Jordan is being hit with the light of Jesus and it's beautiful to watch.

@joolz5747 Год назад

Jordan is honestly searching for truth! Jonathan is wise and brilliant! Jordan keeps interrupting and he hopefully will listen more!

@mikelarrivee5115 2 года назад

After getting pageau into a corner in a conversation about this hierarchy of attention he finally explained that the aspects of things are not equal, but we see first those aspects of things that are most closely tied to their function and then after we see the ones further down on the mountain. He also said we could bring in outside aspects of things to increase the power of the thing, which I cannot help but think is how scientific inventions work

@johncondon4647 3 года назад

10:52 Intelligence and attention are part of how the world lays itself out and it lays itself out in 'modes of being'. Absolutely! Only the few live a life of grace where there is no need for 'modes of being' and that they 'walk with God. For the rest of us mortals, we need to fragment ourselves into various modes of being to be fruitful. .

@twotreasurehunters 3 года назад

I would love to see Peterson's break down of the Tabernacle and it's archtypes of the human body and human mind. Scriptures say... Know you not your body is the Tabernacle of God. Therefore one can assume there is deeper meaning of unseen knowledge in the design and procedures within the Tabernacle.

@GerardFlood 3 года назад

Thank you both for such a powerful confession

@lampwizard4871 3 года назад

It's nice to see him doing better.

@jonathanbarrell82 Год назад

Fascinating conversation

@jrose395 3 года назад

I love what he said about the conscious!

@johnnytass2111 3 года назад

What happens when you fully believe in Christ, in my humble opinion and in my limited way of explaining, is you find the power to abandon your passions to overcome your suffering and face your death in this world with dignity, by freeing your Will from your passions to obey God’s Will, thus accepting wholeheartedly all the events in your life with Love by partaking in the divine nature of creation (Theosis) for eternity. There are excellent videos of Orthodox priest “Fr. Thomas Hopko From Shadow to Reality: The Biblical Foundations for Christian Liturgical Worship” and “Fr. Thomas Hopko at St. Elijah about Christianity and Armageddon” that describe in great detail what it truly means to believe in Christ and live a life of faith.

@Frederer59 3 года назад

You'd chuckle with joy. "His burden is easy, His yoke is light." BTW, Harris is a materialist. Don't waste your energy on him.

@Sojourner24_7 3 года назад

What happens when you believe? You are born again! 😊

@pgranto64 2 года назад

God loves games,that’s why he built me this pleasuredome😊

@awesomeisasawesomedoesyo182 3 года назад

Thank you Jonathan. I love Jordan, hope he finds truth and comfort in Orthodoxy or traditional Roman Catholicism .

@erichmielkethefourth6878 3 года назад

I prayed that Jordan finds hope and truth in Truth alone.

@heatherwhitehead3743 2 года назад

Awe....i never cared about this Jordan character till 16:02. He cries. Now I do. I see.... Thankyou

@twotreasurehunters 3 года назад

It is clear the Aaron in the holy place is an archtype of the human heart. This puts question to mind of what does every other detail point to and our modes of being.

@boogernasty4236 3 года назад

I really love this video! lol

@setiem13 3 года назад

I just noticed that both Peterson's and Pageau's channel logos are pretty similar.

@Agaporis12 Год назад

I’m amazed Peterson has such difficulty with it. When I got into comparative mythology and psychoanalysis I had a clear idea of Jesus as a historical figure and couldn’t square Him with any idea of myth. Just reading the ancient myths and then reading the gospels is a completely different experience. How could you confuse the two? So when I got into that area I saw my task as trying to figure out what the hell Jesus is supposed to have to do with all this. He always seemed to me a completely different thing. It was always difficult to fit Him into any mythological narrative. Sure there’s the dying and resurrecting but what do you make of His relationship with His disciples? His personality and mannerisms? His moral teaching? The emphasis on the mythological elements to me always seemed like a bad fit. It’s one of the reasons people have such trouble with the gospels. They are looking for themselves in it as you would in a myth. Instead what you get is someone completely unlike you who makes you ashamed of yourself, who frightens you with visions of destruction, who defies every expectation. This is why it’s so hard to write any fiction about Jesus. The slightest diversion from His actual character is immediately clear. This is why I think C.S. Lewis’ Aslan is one of the greatest literary achievements of all time. Who has ever written a more convincing Jesus? Because the thing is, Jesus will never be saying or doing what you expect. Hence any conception of Him you form will only hinder your expression of Him. How does He defy all expectations and yet remain distinctly himself? Because of His situation. The situation is what makes His actions so unpredictable because it’s our situation as well. It’s everyone’s situation. But it’s not His situation. He chose it, but it did not choose Him. He entered into it, but it did not beget Him. He’s clearly from outside the human condition. And the essence of myth is the human condition. Hence why the Christ-like myths are such a bad fit. They represent only our experiences, our striving, our dreams and desires. This I think is why authors like Jung and Campbell are so unsatisfying when they write of Jesus. As I recall Campbell avoided writing of the gospels but stuck mostly ti pagan rituals. I never felt the comparative mythologists had much to say about Jesus. The Golden Bough was uniquely unconvincing. Not only is is bad analysis but it’s bad scholarship and precipitated an avalanche of more bad scholarship. We’re still digging ourselves out of the mountain of junk literature surrounding the “mystery cults”.

@bachelorlife92 3 года назад

wow

@redquoter Год назад

Saint John of Damascus, pray for us. His "Fount of Knowledge" is a good read, would reccomend for anyone curious about Christianity and philosophy. ☦️

@ezramelchor8421 8 месяцев назад

This is really great attention to detail, but I'm struggling to make the leap from consciousness and the necessity of attention for us and the literally Divine Nature of Christ.

@asloudassound 3 года назад

Everyone says time kinda flows around us. No , time flows through man! As the time that God has allotted us run down we age. That’s why Christ called himself the Alpha and Omega. Because when he died and rose again. He reset all time and now it flows backwards through him. No one can escape him or his gaze because time is and flows through Christ. Dark matter is the substrate that he hung the universe on. If it doesn’t have his essence on it , it won’t stick to dark matter and no creation will rise out of it. He is everything and nothing if he chooses. Because he holds all things together.

@enchantingamerica2100 2 года назад

Jonathan Pageau: wisdom archeologist

@novaimperialis 3 года назад

I urge you to show Jordan Peterson the model of socionics of Ausra Augusta. It tries to portray different aspects of reality as the jungian functions. It's premises are based on a concept from physics about information metabolism. Note:Socionics model G is preferred Also, I will give a link to a more accurate representation of the model that fits more with what Jung meant. While socionics is better than mbty in some aspects, it still has its flaws. But I think that the central thing is the idea of Augusta which has the most potential for bringing some light to the situation. Links for the correct interpretation of both socionics and mbty: Link 1 A representation for the functions actual ordering and strength akhromant.tumblr.com/post/176707440885/the-arrangement-and-interrelation-of-the-functions Link 2: Axis between the opposites and their dynamic akhromant.tumblr.com/post/617723687396950016/the-four-functional-dimensions-this-is-an-attempt

@Azrael454 Год назад

When is someone gonna tell Jordan to read the Church Fathers and tell him about Logos Spermatikos? He could make massive strides in understanding if he'd drop this neo-platonist, high critic view of Christianity.

@jeremywheeler8902 Год назад

Please read Owen Barfield’s _Saving the Appearances_, Dr. Peterson. His discussion of logomorphism and idolatry is a path out of being epistemologically stuck in Jung’s Kant.

@NoName-xc6cg 2 года назад

What was the book???

@jd-jw8hm 3 года назад

It's fascinating to witness.😳.the hounds of Heaven (Holy Spirit)..hunt J. Peterson down..😁..GOD is hunting him down..HIS grace is irresistible..🤗..HIS love..unstoppable.. YESHUA is on a rescue mission..and HE NEVER FAILS..🤗🤗🤗

@notloki3377 Год назад

this is a very very good conversation. i've never understood why christians prohibit things like archetypes and astrology, because the bible is full of blatantly astroligical symbolism, and it gives one a practical and mathematical sense of where the narrative and material worlds touch. not only that, it doesn't just give a "how" but a "when." even christ came into being around the shift from the age of aries to the age of pisces, and his symbol is the fish. the sign of pisces is related to the space between life and death, and rules spiritual teachers and prophets as well. the symbols of the bull, the man, the lion, and the eagle are the four fixed signs of the zodiac, and they're the four seraphim circling the throne of god if i remember correctly. the 144,000 chosen is relevant because 144,000 is kabalistically the number 9. the number 144,000 shows up all over ancient cosmology, especially in the great pyramid of cheops. new jerusalem, which you reference in antithesis to the city of enoch, is 144 million square roman miles, or square stadia. in the vision of daniel, the ascension of materials in the dream statue from clay to gold is a true alchemical metaphor. like seriously, astrological symbols are all over the bible, new and old testament, and it just makes no sense that it's forbid in the book of moses. moses would have probably been trained in egyptian magic, being raised in the pharoah's household, and we know the ancient egyptians used this kind of knowledge because they encoded the proportions into their monuments.

@kristariebel4737 2 года назад

And I hate the violence of sports

@experiencemystique4982 3 года назад

That's funny, I told my child YOU Dr. Peterson is the IDEAL REPRESENTATION OF THE FATHER FIGURE!!!!!!

@marymelnyk3678 2 года назад

I agree C S Lewis expounds this on a level Peterson will understand… Jordan just read C S Lewis regarded as one of the greatest 20th century writers 🙏🙏🙏

@Cherub-vl9bc 3 года назад

Jordan ive been praying for you for 3 months now, everyday, and seeing you do care about my Father im ready to keep doing it

@howtonanaba 3 года назад

Where does Noah fit in to the narrative?

@howtonanaba 3 года назад

when I saw Mr. Maloney's video, and when I saw the flood of fiat, that's what I thought of. Noah's Ark.

@dellamonk6792 3 года назад

I wanna hear what Pageau has to say! Too much interrupting. 🤔

@solaveritas2 3 года назад

You are watching a real life conversion in progress, I hope you can appreciate the urge to vocalize it as understanding pops up in Jordan's mind and/or spirit. There are tons of Pageau videos to listen to, so personally I feel that some interruption is a minor issue.

@Adaerus 3 года назад

Beware! Reality is often different from the narratives we hold onto so dearly. And the fact that we often confuse the image about reality (the narrative) with reality itself (that which is) creates lots of confusion - including Jordan's. Religious narrative holds lots of behavioral formulas. Archetypes are basically formulas of behavior. In othe words, Jesus, the myth, is a behavioral formula that if applied correctly, based on the religious narrative, will ensure that lots of problems that plague currently humanity will stop (Heaven on Earth).

@pathofbelisarius9709 3 года назад

Kyrie Eleison!

@kynismos 19 дней назад

Too intellectual😊

@kimobush2287 3 года назад

Right and wrong, clean and unclean,

@leoraannenauta7980 3 года назад

The title of this video is condescending.

@hossskul544 Год назад

5:54 this is the point in all of their conversations where they start to lose me and probably a lot of other people, did someone rot in a cave for three days and then pop back up to life and literally get drawn up into the sky in the physical world or did it not? Our experience in this world and science says no.

@Cherub-vl9bc 3 года назад

Jordan dont be afraid, my Father is waiting for you

@KWillyzz1 3 года назад

You think Jordan would accept Christ if he can't speak of him without almost crying

@cnote3598 3 года назад

Hes in a bad place.. dont forget.. regardless.. the veil that's pulled over our eyes is immense

@solaveritas2 3 года назад

Do not underestimate the battle in one's heart. The eventual surrender will be much deeper. There is value in it, especially since it's open for all of us to see. I'm continually amazed to watch this struggle that most of us go through privately. In my estimation this is far superior to seeing someone thoughtlessly repeat a prayer and declaring that they're saved now.

@cnote3598 3 года назад

@@solaveritas2 yes it's hard to know what's authentic when it comes to matters such as theology

@MephiticMiasma 3 года назад

You can weep at the beauty of something without believing in it... but if you are open enough to see that, perhaps you need to see more.

@CSwift-vr1qg Год назад

@@solaveritas2 it does seem to be an immensely private thing. It’s so strange. I seriously would battle with Christianity in my head every night for 4 years straight without speaking a single word on it. I imagine a lot of people do this, but I could be wrong. Don’t think I am though

@klausehrhardt4481 3 года назад

I just can´t help imaging those antique pagans having an smile in their face if they came to hear some modern phenomenologist trying to make the point that all that is are things, come from things and go back to things. The primeval reality is that of someone. That is one of the reasons I refuse to call our age pagan, as C.S. Lewis did before. Our imagination has been fully dominated by the pre-socratic philosophers´s imagery. A litle less of Democritus, a litle more of Hesiod.

@JAMWITCH 2 года назад

The fact that psychologists break down crying when attempting to talk about religion shows what a pseudo science their profession really is.

@BrotherLaymanPaul Год назад

Man, old-me would’ve said them’s fighting words, but after having been a hardcore “Jungian” for years and having finally left the world of psychology for Orthodoxy, I agree with you entirely. Lol

@lifewasgiventous1614 Год назад

Professions don't cry lol talk about mistaking the person for their profession.

@kristariebel4737 2 года назад

Sports should b outlawed for money and winning. Yes and winning is addictive and serves nothing great.

@kristariebel4737 2 года назад

I don't believe in a one God and the bible. We have never seen this person. And I dont say this to dismiss people's beliefs. But if we all listen to each others ideas. It would be more productive. But as an unbeliever I have asked many people that vote leaving God and Jesus and I really want to hear what they have to say and I still can't fully say that I accept that for myself but I also don't criticize them at all. I find all people interesting all different beliefs interesting and would it be interesting if we could just I'll talk about our thoughts and beliefs and kind of be like oh my God that's kind of cool like I like how you think about that and I like how you think about that but I don't know what people's problems are their controlled by the the Brain Police

@Mpetridis07 2 года назад

No way does the narrative and the real world sync up only with Christ.... everything syncs up at one point or another...it's noted that in a mechanical universe.. things eventually sync up...even our inner world with our outer...I ain't going crazy again...it's sad to see such a smart man confused about this..a true Jungian I suppose...

@zacharymartin5629 2 года назад

You didn’t listen to what he said, did you?

@UserName-mn5rx 8 месяцев назад

Beanbags and stumps lol

@ramblincapuchin9075 3 года назад

I suspect that Jordan is attempting to reconcile the cognitive dissonance of the prodigal son story There is enough of the secular world to garner a person's 'attention' whereby they can draw their own conclusions about the shape of the world, but the exceptions that manifest themselves will always draw them back in to a place of virtue. To a certain extent I would say knowledge, since you are older than the person you were yesterday Peterson says himself that if he were confronted to accept some of the terrifying realities that exist, it might be too much to bear. Pageau sums it up nicely by illustrating how those two worlds (the nature of good and evil) overlap in the position of the Son of man It would have to be that way, otherwise we would be forced to accept a nihilistic view of the world. A reality where goodness is fleeting and death is absolute

@anaglyphx 3 года назад

I feel sorry for lunatics trapped in an ideological prison which that can't get out of...go travel and live in the world a bit before latching onto superstition to explain reality

@unclekerr4369 3 года назад

Jordan is compelled to complicate everything in order to seek glory and appear smart to other men. He is going mad, this is what happens, life is not complicated we complicate it so we look smarter. Academia is the place where they put labels on mysteries and wander off into a fantasy land of sophistry and nonsense with massive extrapolation from anything in reality. Sophistry survives and thrives based on a discrepancy of understanding between the talker and the listener and you can tell a sophist because they never bother to check that the listener understands what they are saying. Jordan is a sophist, very little of what he says has any basis in reality if you really test the foundations of what he is saying. He is popular because his audience do not understand and subsequently consider him brilliant, it is all smoke and mirrors. He lacks wisdom because the fruit of wisdom is tranquility and the fruit of folly is madness and his life has been negotiations with madness, he thinks deeply but he can not think clearly and this is very common in man kind and what happens is people think deeply to avoid what is clearly true but unpleasant. Jordan is atypical because his style of sophistry goes from complexity towards simplicity and he loses people in the complexities and then gets them back when he draws everything together in a simple conclusion, the problem is the conclusion is always wrong but a falsehood that many people want to be truth- his who philosophy is basically work hard towards your goals and they will fulfil you the problem is this hasn't worked for him and it won't work for me or you but we wish it would.

@unclekerr4369 3 года назад

Jordan is a man of information not understanding, a man of theoretical ideas which fail in reality. He has spend his life on trying to help mentally ill people but has failed to confront the fact his ideas do not work in his life. Information is very cheap but people are impressed easily by it and people collect it to impress others, Jordan is an impresario not a teacher or helper, it's all about his glorification not about tangible sustainable help for his audience. It's an extremely subtle deception for him to contend with because the feed back he gets is massively distorted because he deals with desperate people who want to believe what he is selling. The problem is that all his advice is based on what a person knows, what a person owns and what a person can do- no of these things change what a person is which is to say all the work he does and suggest others do is on the superficialities of life not the deeper "being" of people. As Christ said he is a blind man leading the blind, he is trying to lead and teach people to attain something he himself knows nothing about- Tranquility.

@jaxwhyland 3 года назад

@@unclekerr4369 What? Thousands of people have written to and told him how much he has bettered their lives. There goes your whole idea

@unclekerr4369 3 года назад

@@jaxwhyland This is the case with Charles Mansons following. You reasoning is very weak people want to believe that what they are involved in is helping them, the whole feminist movement amd the social justice warrior movement believe that what they are involved with is helping them. Jordan himself thinks his idea help him but then he has a break down. Do you understand what I am saying? I am not trying to mock you but I think your argument is a bit flawed.

@unclekerr4369 3 года назад

@@jaxwhyland Don't you agree that when you achieve a goal you life is bettered for a short time then it normally goes back to how it was before? So it depends over what time frame you take the data and the people writing to him, I would suggest, have had a temporary improvement in their circumstances due his ideas but not a permanent sustainable development in who they really are. Does it make any sense or correlate to you experience if I say "what we do does not change who we are"? I suggest our problems are at a deeper level and to support that I would point to the fact that many humans have it all in terms of achievement but are still very unhappy and struggling bad, Jordan himself is in the category and this supports my hypothesis that " achieving our goals doesn't change us" and explains why so many people write to him- they are experiencing a temporary feeling of satisfaction from achieving something. Good luck.

@jaxwhyland 3 года назад

@@unclekerr4369 Yeah nah, as soon as you try compare a collectivist ideology to the individual you lose your credibility. You also don't get to say that the thousands of men whose lives have been greatly improved "just believe it is". That's fucked up and speaks only to who YOU are as a person. I AM mocking you when I say that you're an immature since incapable of rational though. No one takes you seriously.

@dariofromthefuture3075 3 года назад

Why can’t Christ be a great man- ones who's selfless deeds caused a transformational wave through out the land. But none the less- still a man? Isn’t it at least plausible that the details of the resurrection have been muddied and exaggerated over time and in the countless edits to the current Bible? -I’m not denying that he may have in fact been an Avatar as the Hindu’s recognize - a truly high level soul. But isnt the above ^ at least plausible and fulfilling of what JP layed out?

@dimitrispeiraias 3 года назад

Because... Jesus Christ, the incarnated Word of God, by uniting man and God in His own one person, reopened the path for all people to have union with God, Who is the Ultimate Love and the Absolute Life. Jesus Christ the eternally begotten Word of God became one of us to heal our trauma(=our alienation from God Who is Love and Life) by his loving sacrifice(=the ultimate offering of Love). In this way, He conquered death(=seperation from God Who is Life) by His death(=the ultimate offering of Love) and since then He became our Resurrection! Our ultimate trauma needed that ultimate act of Iove in order to be healed! Our trauma was our alienation from God who is the Ultimate Love and the Absolute Life! The voluntary sacrifice of the absolutely innocent Christ is the ultimate act of love, which humanity needed to commit in order to get out of the egocentric tendency of sin which caused death as a result of alienation from God Who is Life and Love! No man except for the incarnated Son of God could ever commit such a perfectly innocent self-sacrificing act of love! However we needed to freely respond to God's Love because freedom is a prerequisite for love! You could neither love by force nor be loved forcibly! Christ responded to God's Love and gave himself as a ransom for all people! Ransom is paid for the release of the captives! By accepting Christ to be formed in us, we respond to God's Love, through His Son's Grace in His Spirit Communion! Jesus Christ the incarnated Son of God is risen and the human race is risen! Christ is literally alive! Christ is risen, and for this very reason we expect the Resurrection of the dead and the Life of the age to come! No one will be excluded from the gift of our common Resurrection! However, our inclination towards such a gift and its Giver will make a really huge difference! After all, Joy is an inside matter! Christ is risen and the human race is risen! Our day shall come. Until then Christ is in our midst! He was and is and ever shall be. Living the Orthodox Church is about experiencing the Divinity and humanity of Jesus Christ by joining His mystical body where He feed us on His own Flesh and we quench our thirst for life with His precious Blood! By participating in His Mystical Supper which is called Liturgy, our bodies are literally implanted with His resurrected body! His precious Blood is literally transfused to our veins! Our souls are literally united with His soul! His Divinity is literally infused into us! This way we partake of His Uncreated Divine Energy that is of His Father and of His Spirit! Thus we may experience the Uncreatedness of the Eternal Life by God's Will, through His Son's Grace, in His Spirit Communion! Of course, we could never commune with God's Essence but we may commune with God's Uncreated Energies! May God's Life be your Life, so that you may experience Life that is Life to the full! God bless you and Live for real, my friend!

@dariofromthefuture3075 3 года назад

@@dimitrispeiraias Thank you for the blessing and for such a long and thorough response. I don't buy many of your axioms- but I also don't want to start a gigantic flame war here in the comments. I am a spiritual person myself - and I believe blessings are real- and even that Christ was a great soul that showed people a new way of life. But he was hardly the first person to ever sacrifice himself willingly. But a great leader none the less. God bless.

@dimitrispeiraias 3 года назад

We'll just agree to disagree. However I truly respect your freedom to make the false choise. After all, my God is Love! Love is about freely respecting the freedom of others! Love is never forced! Love is never about forcing the others! Love is not an egocentric force! Love is always ecstatic! God Wills to respect the freedom of people, because God is The Perfect and Absolute Love! Nevertheless, our inclination towards such an Absolute Love makes a really huge difference! Ultimately, Joy is an inside matter! Such an inside matter is up to us until our final choice on the threshold between life and death. Until then, we need to freely respond to God's Love because freedom is a prerequisite for love! You could neither love by force nor be loved forcibly! We may experience the Uncreatedness of the Eternal Love by God's Will, through His Son's Grace, in His Spirit Communion! May God's Love be your Life, so that you may experience Life that is Life to the full! God bless you and Live for real, my friend!

@dariofromthefuture3075 3 года назад

@@dimitrispeiraias Thank you sir!

@Denis461997 3 года назад

I was a buddhist person before turning Christian (Catholic), i know it's kinda hard to accept that God himself (The very structure of being itself) bow so low before us so he could lift us high above due to the Love He has for each one of us.