Solid plan. I followed a very similar plan about 20 years ago when I ran 2:32. I was hurt with a hanstring injury the day of that race and estimate that I was probably in 2:27-2:28 shape. Now that I'm also 50, I don't think I could handle the milage at the required intesity. When I was younger I had to force myself to slow down on easy day even when my legs felt like crap. Running slow is not a problem today. Like you said, the key is going to be feeling comfortable at that uncomfortable pace. You know you're there when that starts to become your default pace and you have to make a conscience effort to slow yourself down on easy days. Good luck. You're giving inspiration to give the marathon another try.
Thanks for a great comment! It’s a real balancing act isn’t it? I’d love to do more mileage. And maybe I can. But until I get to it, I won’t know how my body feels. So I didn’t want to build it into the plan up front in case I can’t do it and then “fail” as against the plan. But I think I have built some flexibility into there to try it out at least. Fingers crossed!!! Good luck on your goals. Don’t give up on them yet!
I dont know if the plan is the best plan, but I love the energy that you show in your videos. The goal is really complicated but the attitude is perfect to achieve it. I wish you the best.
Fantastic video, looks like a very solid plan with plenty of variety. As long as you’re recovering well you should be flying by the end of the block! Looking forward to following along with your journey 👍
I guess the only concern is how similar is this plan to previous plans? Your incremental gains must be getting smaller, are they getting small enough that it's time to mix things up alittle? I'm still at a stage where just the consistency of training blocks leads to huge (10min gains). But while we keep a similar formula (high easy volume 80/20'ish), we tend to pick my 1 glaring flaw/weakness and make that the focus for the block. Last block it was cadence. Which worked, and is still working...almost too well, CAD on easy runs getting too low. This block is hill work, which I've been hiding from for 2 years due to previous calf injury. You obviously don't want to tinker too much at once. If you were at my stage, 3hrs+, I'd say move to 7days a week, and introduce easy stationary bike (instead of rest days) in Z1/low Z2 to work on aerobic base. But you have a great base fitness, you need speed. But trying to get faster at our age is no easy feat, while balancing risk/reward. You're already in world master major competition bracket, how's your race execution? Maybe that's the missing component, more racing (with more rest for recovery) to fine tune your race day execution. After finishing with my first negative split in my last marathon, we now see I was too conservative in the first 32k, since I was able to push much harder in the last 10k. Which gave me HUGE confidence going into my Chicago build to push harder in the first 32k, and perhaps only hold in the final 10k. I love seeing your training story, it gives me insight into what's potentially possible for me over the next few years, before father time starts to slow me down (Just turned 51).
This is a great comment. It is similar. But the paces will be faster this time. Last time around marathon pace was 6 min/mile. This time it’s 5:40. Which is huge. So all of a sudden a marathon pace session becomes a lot more daunting. At the moment I’m training for the training. Getting used to what’s to come. It’s a balance between tinkering to get gains and trying something new which sets me back. I’d love to do higher mileage for example but I have to be careful for obvious reasons. Ultimately I’m not going to be a slave to it and I’ll see if I have add different elements where possible. Racing will definitely be one of those. Way more races this time of year in Canada!
I have rewatched this video many times and used it for my own plan (with shorter long run distances). Going back and forth between speed and mileage works really well.
To put your goal in perspective - what is your current best marathon time? I have never done a marathon and at 53 and previously only having done parkrun - I gave myself 3 years to train for the marathon. Year 1 - work on my 10k. Year 2 - 21k and year 3 the marathon. I have had injury niggles in the -past so want to stay injury free and do my preparation slowly. You have obviously been a runner for a long time?
Thanks for your comment! That sounds like a sensible plan you have there! My previous marathon best is 2:26 which I ran in 2017. But I’ve always been a runner. I ran track in school and moved up the distances as I got older!
Looks good! I’m certainly no expert, but for some reason I think speed over volume/mileage is what will serve you going into this next race. Keep the legs fresh, focus on recovery for sure.
I like your idea of having an open day on saturday, what I wouldn't do is having it after the rest day, because if you decide to rest it will be two rest days on a row, and that kills me psychologically. The double day I also do it on a workout day, what I don't do is double thresshold, I am afraid of getting injured if I do that. What's missing in the plan is strength training days. How many per week and which days do you do them?
Great comments! I hear you on two rest days in a row. But sometimes I need that reset. I don’t do it often but sometimes I find them really useful. Good point on strength. I usually do those sessions whenever I can but at a minimum I do these on Mondays which are my cross-training days. But usually more than just once a week. I like doing them on days when I have done a hard session in the morning and nothing in the afternoon. That gives me the most time to recover from them.
Did you follow the whole PRE aspect in McMillan's book ? That is, did you start from his template and then make changes ? Curious how you came to decide on this plan. Thanks !
There’s been a lot of trial and error but I liked the overall structure of his plan and the progression under it. Realistically I probably only ever end up running 80% of what is written down but it’s a good overall structure. At the moment I’m training for the training. (But more on that next week..!)
This looks more like a half marathon plan. It depends on your mileage before this training plan starts. Running in M pace is supposed to feel very easy. And if you’re struggling with a 10k run in 36min then the plan is a bit to hard. It’s more likely a 2:38-2:40 marathon.
To be fair, my 36 minute 10k was on a very hilly course at 4,000 feet of elevation. I think my 16:22 5k I did a few days before (flat course at sea level) is a better indicator of my current fitness. Plus I have 12 weeks to turn it up. I’m going to do my best to prove you wrong. :). (In the nicest way possible!). :) Thanks for your comment - really appreciate it.
@@global-runneryeah it’s a bit harder with running on 4000f. 😂 I really hope you make it! Have been training runners for many years and a marathon is a really hard distance. But experience runners don’t need the same speed to make it. They have better endurance. Usually most runners need a 10k at 33:30 to be comfortable with 3:30km pace. But i’m sure you will prove me wrong.
I don’t think I’m far off 33:30 pace. But it’s tough to be sure when you’re at altitude. I’m hoping to have some sea level races in a few weeks and that will be a real test of where I’m at. Interested to hear what you’d change about the plan - more tempo runs? My idea was to push my speed first so that 5:20-5:20/mile is achievable which will hopefully make 5:40/mile feel easier… So speed first, endurance later was the plan. But interested in your thoughts.
Plan looks good. You went buy me late in Carmel marathon (I went out a bit too fast). A little younger and slower than you - early 40s and trying to break 2.35. Have you done double threshold in the past? I have thought about it in the past but not sure if my body could handle that consistently.
Thanks for your comment! I do remember a couple of guys I went by towards the end in Carmel so I’m sure I’d recognize you! Sorry to hear it didn’t work out for you but there’s always the next one! :) I started using double thresholds in my last build-up. I was worried about them too so I started very cautiously. Never went full-out and did maybe 60% of a full session in the morning and the same in the afternoon. I found that they actually gave me more recovery because I’d recognize them as hard days and would take more recovery afterwards than if I’d just done one session. You have to be very careful with them but I found them useful.
Great channel and the scenery is 100%! Canmore and Banff I'm guessing... IMHO, if you are doing workouts of some kind Tue and Thu, then do hills/speed on Sat then 30 Miles or FF LR on Sunday, that sounds like a 30-40 year old's plan LOL. Maybe a tad too much but what do I know??... Just a note of caution 🙂It would be great if you could ask Greg Mcmillan for his thoughts.
Thanks for your comment! Really appreciate it. Yes that’s Canmore and Banff. They are stunning places to train alright. I’m very lucky to have that scenery to run by. You are exactly right that it might be too much. I’m leaving Saturdays as flex so if I’m feeling good I’ll go for it but if I’m feeling beaten up I’ll rest or cross train. Got to be guided by the body for sure…!
Great plan, I found this video maybe at the perfect moment. I have trained very ambitiously to get a sub 3 for the last 2 years, also finally sneaked one in. But I have really been struggling with injuries whenever I increase my training volume, so much that I decided last Friday to quit running for good. But then I saw this video, and you address cross training and taking care of your body a lot. I guess there is something I do wrong. Now I wonder. Is there a way I could get in contact with you for a few tips? :-D In any case, great video and best of luck with the sub 2:30!
Thanks for your comment! What a great story. Thanks for sharing it. It’s definitely all very individual. But I bet if you backed off running and worked on some core strength and other types of exercise for a while, you may come back even stronger and able to withstand the rigours of marathon training. I did some strength videos a few weeks ago (check those out!) and they should give you some ideas. I would also recommend buying a foam roller or lacrosse ball and working through those tight muscles. But I’m happy to help if you have further questions! I’m not an expert but I do have 40 years’ worth of experience (mistakes!). :)
@@global-runner Hi, thank you so much for your answer, it is highly appreciated. I have been implementing strength-, flexibility- and agility-training as well as massage (foam roller, stick, massage gun) for the last two years. Since I started getting injured I tried fixing these possible deficits but somehow I don’t get it right. For now I have backed off and switched to daily cycling, elliptical and strength training. Maybe I just overdid it. I would be happy to book a session for a short talk over video conference if you offer that, just to lay out what I do and get your invaluable opinion on it. Would be fantastic if that would be an option. Please let me know, many thanks for your advice!
So I really don’t consider myself an expert! If I were you, I’d find a local physio or strength coach who can pi point your own individual weaknesses and tell you how to strengthen them (like Tyson for me!). Well worth the $100 I spent on him to be honest and I’d have had no clue on my own…!
@@global-runner Okay, I would have loved to get a crazy fast runner’s opinion like yours. :-D The solution of my physios is always more and more physio and less and less running. But maybe I haven’t found the right person. Thank you for your advice and best of luck for the 2:30 project, I will be following it closely!
I’m sorry about that! But I’m definitely not the right person. I went to an expert who showed me what to do for me. Definitely take a look at that video though - there may be some tips in there! Thanks for your support. Fingers crossed!!
Out of intetest on your double threshold day whats the pace difference between the 15x1min and 20mins? I tried double threshold once 6x1km then 10x400m in the evening and found doing 10x1km easier but my paces on the 400s and 1ks were the same so a bit dubious i did it correctly or with enough volume.
In the 400s I’ll do 5:00/mile pace and in the tempo I’ll do 5:30-5:45 pace. (Let me know if you need km). So they are definitely different paces. I tend to do about 60% of a session on each run when I start DTs. And I never go all-out on either. Always controlled.
Plans are very individual , what works for you might not work for me , and maybe another time it could be better to do things different. One thing is certain, it is time consuming and it has to fit with what orher things you do in life , availibility to train at certain places, the weather, etc , etc. etc when you can handle them i thing double Threshold, or double workouts are a grreat idea , maybe not everu week. I usualy take tevery fourth week a downweek with a bit more recovery and crosstraining, also trie to keep some harder paces/track so mp feels a bit easier . Having fun and keep injuries out of the door is key , maybe do a few races in different paces ( progressive half marathon is my favoriite ) or just race a 10 k or a half . Good luck . Sure you do well
Thanks for your comment! I agree with your thoughts there! It’s definitely not one-size-fits-all and I definitely plan to be flexible and pivot where I have to!
Thanks for your comment! The day before the long run is a bonus day. I choose what I’m lacking and I focus on that. It might be speed, it might be distance, it might be rest. And I’m definitely hoping to avoid the dreaded “I” word!! :)
Good question. If I’m (say) half way through the plan and I’m still 2 weeks ahead then I take a week to work on what I feel I need. Maybe rest, speed or mileage. And then the same about 3 or 4 weeks before the end. But something usually comes up…
Interesting. You didn’t mention a ‘race’ in any of the 14 weeks. How are you going to gauge if your fitness is improving from 2.38? I’d suggest a half marathon or 10 mile race 4 to 6 weeks out from marathon day. Good luck.
Good comment! I agree. I think races are key for gauging fitness but also for other things like pushing yourself and learning how to hurt. I plan on doing a few - watch this space!! :)
Thanks for sharing, best of luck. How much of the long runs will be at goal MP, and do you start the 12 weeks using the MP or build up to it? I'm 50 this thinking and this inspiring me to attempt a sun 2:50
Thank you! And thanks for commenting! Previously I have not done many long runs at marathon pace. But this time around I’m thinking I need to practice that a bit more. I usually start with the mileage at any old pace and then try and get faster but this time I might try and get more longer runs at marathon pace. Again, I’ll have to see how the body holds up…
@@global-runner yeah it stunning, I ran it 3 years ago as my first marathon (sub 4 only just started running then) this will be my 4th marathon. I'm going start the Hanson marathon plan but I think the over marathon distance is a great idea and double threshold. Hanson longest run is 16 mile only
Great breakdown of your training plan. What does your overall volume look like? I'm over 50 too and reckon in my last build I focused on mileage too much ( for me )
Thanks for the comment! Overall mileage will vary but in the bigger weeks I’ll be aiming for about 80 miles (130k?). I do think the 100 mile (160k) week has value but there’s serious injury risk that comes with a week that big. Sometimes I do a mini block of 4-5 days at 14 miles/day and you definitely feel the fitness with way less risk…
There’s always someone better. And that’s ok! My best friend ran 2:09 - but we both have the same level of love for the sport! Hope you get your goals!!
Do you find it helpful to run longer than marathon distance in training. I usually run up to 36-38k in the log run. I have started doing double threshold runs, first time doing these (currently they are not fun).
It’s definitely not for everyone. But I come from a track background so I find the overdistance runs really helpful both physically and mentally. Maybe back off on the double threshold? I tend to start these with about 60% of a normal session in the morning and the same in the afternoon. You can definitely overdo these so introducing them gently is what I did. You have to be so careful with these!
@@global-runner used to run track myself (hurdles); but it’s been a hot minute since I’ve done those. I’ve amended my plan to take a cross training day after the doubles to recover. Just seeing how my body reacts to the stress.
Hey Global Runner, cool you are sharing your plan, really helps me too! You said you wanted to practice with the pain. Apart from the races you want to do, do you envision pain in some of the trainings of this plan? If so, in which one of them and how often? I'm quite a pain seeker myself, doing 2-3 quite hard to hard sessions a week in my search for speed. I wonder if I have to push extra to get quicker, because I have no muscle memory from a running history, or maybe I am overdoing it 🤔.
I think you can overdo the pain. I think most sessions you want to be in control and finish strong. But I think you have to practice hurting too so I plan on throwing in some “hurt” sessions either on Saturdays or maybe during long runs picking it up at the end and really pushing. But three times a week sounds like a lot of pain! If you kept two of them under control and really pushed on the third one, that might give bigger gains? Might be worth a try for a few weeks and see how it works out?
