Heroes Don't Have to Be Boring | On Writing 

Go check out my new video talking more about Frodo and Sam as paragon and tragic heroes on Nebula!! go.nebula.tv/hellofutureme Thank you for your support :D

The reason people think Superman and Captain America are boring is because doing the right thing is rarely difficult for them. They're superheroes, of course they're going to do the right thing. And they're strong enough to do the right thing with little effort. But stories that subvert this are fascinating. In the MCU, Captain America, the perfect soldier, frequently breaks rank in order to save his friends. In the Justice League cartoon, Superman struggles with Lex Luthor turning public opinion against him. A morally straightforward hero in a morally complex world has lots of potential for great stories.

Another great example of Captain America being a great hero is how, before he ever got the serum, he jumped over a dummy grenade at boot camp (thinking it was a real, live one) in order to 'save' everyone else. He even waved at others to run and get away, shouting at them to leave him. Paragons are often best shown as Paragons when the character is without power, safety, or ither comforts, yet still fully follow their morals/'duties'.

What made cpt. America work so extremely well in the MCU was that despite being a paragon through and through, he wasn't naive. He understood that there was rationale behind the other perspectives. Him and Iron Man ending up at odds with each other was the perfect culmination of virtue ethics vs consequence ethics, and both could respect the other side but be convinced that their side was the right one. That's one way of describing the paragon btw, the personification of virtue. There's a moral compass, not a moral equation. The consequentialist will do the math, while the paragon will have an instinctual ethic (of course, they're never 100% either or, you need some reasoning to sustain virtue, and you need some baseline virtue assumptions to be able to do consequentialist equations anyway).

Chosen Ones like Percy Jackson,Avatar Aang,Lyra Belacqua actually have personality in the Form of sass,but Hollywood thinks The Chosen One must be bland for self insertion.

I’ve always felt like a bit of a weirdo for liking pure-hearted heroes so much when everyone around me prefers morally ambiguous or antihero protagonists, so thank you for making this video. As an example you didn’t mention, Adora from She-Ra and The Princesses of Power is a paragon who always does what’s right and sees the best in people, but still is an amazing character.

People seem to think that paragons are boring, and I think it's because you rarely see them given interesting challenges. The paragon always does the right thing, so putting them in a situation where they have to choose between right and obvious wrong doesn't work. If you have a character who's perfect in every way, you need to find different ways to challenge them. Give them a loved one with a terminal disease they can't do anything about, or a complex conflict between two parties with no clear good/bad, or whatever else. You don't challenge a character with superhuman strength by asking them to punch even harder this time. Know your heroes, and know their struggles.

Paragons are actually my favorite archetype, particularly paired with extremely amoral characters. Where I went to was the StarTrek episode “In the Pale Moonlight” where Sisko (a paragon character) increasingly becomes dragged into dirtier and dirtier business for a noble goal and has to partner with Garak, who is the most amoral and dirty of heroes. Things do not go well and when Sisko confronts Garak over the complete destruction of his principles for the greater good Garak makes the speech that ends with: “T hat's why you came to me, isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing? Well, it worked. And you'll get what you want: a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant. And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain.” Oof, and the best part, Sisko ends the episode with a journal entry insisting that he can live with himself, when it is clear that he doesn’t think he can. Perfect. Paragons are great archetypes, because it is potent when what is right is stood up for, and they can let us explore the cost of that. Was Garak right leads to a lot of soul searching for the audience, and hopefully growth.

Paragon might be too strong a term - but when you mentioned the Doctor getting literally millions of planets coming to his aid? Reminds me of FMA (well Brotherhood since I haven't read the manga), when we have all the secondary and tertiary characters lending a hand. The protagonist's kindness being paid back by all the people they've helped coming to their aid - I mean, that just sounds like a perfect scene for a paragon. And that's exactly why my favorite bit from any superhero movie is Spiderman 2, when Spidey stops the train, passes out from the strain, and all the people on the train stand up to Doc Ock for him.

When I saw the tittle the first thing that popped into my mind was the few pannels of Superman flying to a girl that is standing on the edge of a building and she just says ,,I am not ready to talk" and you see for the next pannels him just floating next to her without a word as the day ends... Moments like this are how you really do a hero, even Deadpool had a moment like that (there was a comic dub that really gave it justice but I don't remember who made it)

I've got Trigun brainrot right now but Vash is one of the best paragons in media in my opinion. He's a gunslinger who refuses to kill, and his choice to be a pacifist definitely has very negative consequences, innocents still die even when he refuses to kill. In fact at times that causes more to actually suffer. Wolfwood is his antihero foil, who is quite willing to kill, and is changed by Vash's ideals, to a tragic end. Everyone should watch/read Trigun, preferably all versions.

One of the things I liked was actually a scene in this video. After General Ross presents the Avengers with the Sorkovia Accords, most of the heroes immediately take a position on them. Meanwhile, Steve Rogers is reading the entire book, looking at everything there before trying to form an opinion. Team Cap!

I love my morally complex, deep, flawed characters as much as the next guy, but I can't help but just love paragon characters so much when they're done so well. They inspire me to be a better person, and makes me believe that even in a dark, complicated world they're still can be people that represent the best of humanity, kindling some light in the darkness, no matter how hard it can be.

While I get it's important not to put your characters in boxes, it's also good to know what tropes they fall under so you know what mistakes to avoid.

One of the things I love about Ned Stark is that years after his death, other character still respect his name and the people associated with him. He’s such a paragon that his impact is still felt even after he’s been gone for a long time.

Mob from mob psycho 100 is a paragon who struggles a lot with his feelings, even more than with most adversaries

My favorite Superman movie is called Superman VS The Elite. It's a film about Superman meeting a brand new group of superheroes whom the public favors over Superman, as they can get the job done without worrying about the morality that Superman is "restricted" by. They think he's outdated and not appropriate for the modern era. Superman sticks to who he is and tries to show the world that old fashioned goodness still has a place in the world. I think this is excellent commentary on the effectiveness of the paragon archetype. While many view them as boring and no longer interested enough for modern audiences, this movie shows that they can be. I love how the movie comments on both a thematic level within it's own self-contained narrative and also on a meta one with how they show that paragons are still awesome.

All Star Superman was one of the most fun stories I've read in a long time.

My spin on my paragon protagonist is that he is one under construction. On the novel I'm trying to write (trying is the word, even though I'm progressing), he has all the right morals to instinctively recognize injustice and what should be done... but not necessarily confidence to do so. His arc is not necesarily about learning what he has to change about himself. He is wise beyond his years. But I always wondered how heroes like Superman and Captain America are never afraid of getting in the middle of a situation, nor really question themselves when acting out of fear of misreading a situation. A fear a lot of people in real life have, in something as basic as human interactions. Basically, what I made is a paragon on construction, trying to overcome his shyness.

My newest favorite moment for Captain America was I think in Civil War. The comic. He turns himself in after seeing the chaos caused and as the citizens are giving him a mixture of confused comments, insults, and thrown items, he jumps in front of someone else to save them from getting shot. As he's bleeding out, he still is only concerned with the people. The same people were moments ago rewarded his decades of kindness with thrown tomatoes. I really love paragon characters and people who just wanna help people because they're just good people

Mark from Invincible seems like an interesting take on the paragon hero concept (with the caveat that I've only seen the show, not read the comics). He has a strong moral compass and always wants to do the right thing, but actually _doing_ that ends up being a lot harder than he originally thought. At first, just because the reality of being a superhero involves a lot more death and failure than he'd realized, and then because of the impossible situation his father put him in.

I think what makes The Doctor an interesting Paragon character is he knows what he’s capable and during the Time War he did things that he would’ve never done. And so that’s what makes him a a paragon character. He knows the Darkness in him and so with a smile and a screwdriver her helps people. But don’t forget that his Companions are what keep him as a Paragon character

It's worth noting that the rules change a bit when you're working with lightly dramatized biographies. For example, I'm perfectly happy with the recent Julia Childs and Mr Rogers shows/movies just being wholesome simple characters who are all about the good vibes.

It's an interesting reflection of the personal and social structures people are in When I met people from different parts of the world I realised that people from poor or dangerous backgrounds are drawn to heros who do the right thing and are king but safer people are drawn to darker heros because they've never had to live a constantly threaten life

Ah, this brings to mind my favorites - the Elric brothers and Winry Rockbell. SPOILERS FOR FMAB: Their entire arc revolves around them trying to find a way to regain their bodies with the firm resolve to never kill, not just because they're the "good guys", but because they have been through the horror of human resurrection and its devastating effects. They're always determined to help whomever they can, whilst driven by the firm belief to never kill, even when they're in the direst of situations and even when their enemy is willing to kill them. They inspire others around them, even gain some former bad guys as allies in the process and have never been responsible for the deaths of any of the homunculi; Edward also refuses to use his estranged father as a toll for regaining Alphonse's body despite Hohenheim willing to sacrifice himself, and they ultimately succeed in their quest. Winry herself refuses to kill the very person who was responsible for her parents' murder and even helps heal him, while being clear that she isn't doing this out of a passive will to forgive, rather knowing that it is the right thing to do no matter how painful it is. It's not a simple matter of good guys "not killing" and being morally pure - these characters are traumatized and human, and simply do not want anybody else to suffer what they've suffered.

My Pavlovian response to hearing “a wizard did it” is so ingrained now that I started instinctively bobbing my head exactly on the starting beat 😂

I feel like a lot of writers feel they need to include a paragon hero guy who has all the good personality traits so they have more freedom to make the other heroes flawed, and then...never go back and add interesting character traits to the hero, because they assume that will compromise his paragon-ness. In fairness, sometimes that initial feeling comes from managerial pressure to include a Good Example to soak up the heroism, so Concerned Parents or other "moral guardians" don't cause a shitstorm. (Not all publicity is good publicity.) But that doesn't stop these default-settings heroes from being okay at best.

Pure heroes are awesome, people need to remember that.

A great example of a paragon character in fiction is George Bailey in It's a Wonderful Life, with the central conflict being that he's so willing to do good to help others, he sacrifices his own hopes and dreams to do so. It's the price of him doing the right thing, and ultimately causes him to snap. It's also a great example of another way to deal with paragon characters - to have them go through a crisis of faith. How do they react if everything they've done has been (seemingly or in reality) for naught.

I, for some reason, love Paragons. They are such an interesting type of character that needs good writing, but when it's good, it's hella good

I feel like something else needs to be added here: paragons work best when they are facing tyrants, because it creates an unstoppable force/immovable object problem. Neither the paragon nor the tyrant have any flexibility: which basically means you can increase the tension in the story as much as you want. Unlike other good characters, the paragon won't compromise with the baddies. When the goal of the baddies is "force everyone to follow our rules": this means the paragon provokes the villainous forces to becoming more angry and violent out of sheer frustration. Whereas other heroes might instead work within the system the villain has set up, or subvert it in ways that the villains don't really notice. But the paragon's blatant refusal to engage with the villain's system at all will make them and anyone associated with them into a target. If you want to drive your villain to do truly unspeakable things, matching them with a paragon hero is a good way to get them there. But, that will typically mean that other characters around the paragon suffer... at least in the short term (since it's also true that frustrated villains tend to make mistakes). This is actually how a lot of the early Superman stories worked: because the villain was usually someone with a tyrannical disposition and good PR. Supes had to first expose and provoke the villain, usually through his alternate Clark Kent persona. But exposing the villain's dastardly deeds usually put people at risk: the villain's underlings, random civilians, or indeed his friends. Much of the tention was then derived from whether Superman would be able to protect the people that *he had himself put in danger*.

Professor Geek made an interesting video about how characters like Superman are aspirational because they are want we want to become but can't though we ought to try. Meanwhile characters like Batman and Spiderman are inspirational in that they are flawed like us but they keep fighting the good fight. Basically one is the end goal and the other is like the road we walk.

I am tried seeing heroes in fiction be edgelords or jerks.

I recently read the book Captain Blood by Rafael Sabatini. The book is nearly a hundred years old by this point and for some reason the main character, Peter Blood, really struck a chord with me. Blood is nearly too perfect, he is a doctor, a experienced soldier, a cultured gentleman and smart as a whip. But the thing that gets him into trouble is his good heart. He gets arrested and convicted to indentured servitude in the Caribbean because he took care of wounded rebels in England during a rebelling against the king. He throws away his chance for a pardon, later in the story in order to save his crew and deserts his service as a privateer for the French navy when he realises that the French commanders are using their commission to plunder Spanish settlements and enrich themselves instead of actually pursuing strategic goals. Blood’s problem is that he is a good man in a corrupt world. He doesn’t need to be riddled with character flaws, because most of his conflicts are a direct result of him trying to do the moral thing in a setting where those in power don’t play by moral guidelines.

The Elric brothers from Full metal alchemist brotherhood are a perfect example of paragon characters. They stay true to their morals and abstain from taking or using human lives for their own personal reasons, even if it costs them a lot.

YES. This is what I love to see! Heroes being heroes!

A really interesting example of a compelling character arc for a paragon is Adora from Shera and the princesses of power. Her entire character arc is about valuing her own needs and wants in addition to those around her. While she is pretty much always morally right, she actively hurts people she loves with her actions (namely catra and glimmer). Great paragon character with a compelling arc too!

Superman will always be my fave paragon, but that's mostly because his struggle with being part of diaspora is deeply relatable

I love All Might and Deku from MHA. While they are clearly flawed individuals, and their chronic hero syndrome is very much depicted as a flaw, they are also both paragons through and through. In the 6th season, resident jackass-with-a-point Bakugo actually points out how they're a horrible duo to leave alone, because they won't put the breaks on each other's relentles selflessness. Deku in particular is an inspiration to the people around him, owing to his compassion and determination. As early as S2, he forgoes doing the smart thing (winning the sports festival for the publicity boost) in favour of beating sense into his classmate. The brilliant thing is that while his status as a real hero often causes issues (at one point he almost irreparably damages his arms), it also has positive pay offs. A great example is in late s6 (therefor spoilers) Basically, in the first half of the season, EVERYTHING goes to shit. Due to Shigaraki escaping from the hospital raid, and subsequently doing a sevenfold jailbreak, releasing thousands of villains into Japan, many heroes are quitting their jobs, civilians are forming mobs to defend themselves, and it's total anarchy. In the midst of this, Deku leaves the school and goes on the hunt for Shigaraki, running himself ragged trying to stop every crime he comes across and fighting off multiple hitmen sent by AFO. Eventually, his classmates catch up, and a fight breaks out, his class trying to stop his self-destructive behaviour. Ironically, his heroism has both put him in a difficult position AND has a positive pay-off. In general, the show portrays quite well how, even with prodigeous power, you can't save everyone, and this helps humanize Deku and All Might.

An interesting example of a moral paragon is Job in The Book of Job. Confusing read, but in the end you find that Job is a paragon perhaps moreso than even God in that story. He comes to the terrible realization that doing morally good things gives no tangible rewards in this or the next world. And yet, he refuses to do moral evils, presumably because doing good is still desirable over doing evil. We’ve been creating paragons for thousands of years and I think we will continue to do so because it helps us understand the human condition.

Man it's been a while since I've seen my beloved Doctor Who in a video essay. I miss that show being good. It's been such a long while.

I think Steven from Steven Universe is set up to be a paragon character too, but he's that way because he's a literal child. It's a really interesting take on the paragon, as someone who does right out of childish innocence and then must *choose* to do right as they mature and discover the dark truths of their world.

This makes me think of Vash from Trigun. Not exactly sure if he'd classify as a paragon, but he's got to be close at least. He starts out making you laugh, and as time goes on, he warms your heart. His pacifist approach to helping and saving people takes a large toll on him, but he refuses to kill anyone. Even though it's like the wild west where death and violence are everywhere.

4:08 I don't know why but Elijah's shit eating grin at Mount Doom when he puts on the Ring ALWAYS gets me. ALWAYS.

I do like Paragons (Cap was my favourite MCU Avenger). I just hate when they're boring, OR when on top of being a Paragon, they're also so OP that there is no struggle to do good, and everything is just a minor inconvenience to them (ie, a lot of Superman stuff) Basically, I like Cap because he's good, but has to work for his wins. He has to struggle against forces that are stronger than him, and put himself at risk, and seek allies who can help carry him across the finish line. Wheras I tend to find Superman boring because most of the time it's just "oh hey, the invincible super-speed flying brick saved the day again because he can just super-speed his way to the problem and tank everything, easy peasy." There's no drama, no struggle, no question of how he's going to manage the task, no question of if he'll do the right thing, or manage the task. We already know how he's going to manage the task. Outside of a few well-done superman stories, everything about him is so obvious as to leave no uncertainty. Unless they leverage the fact that there's only one of him and he can't be everywhere at once, meaning that we're worrying about how other squishier people are going to cope *without* superman. THAT'S when it's interesting, and not because of him, but because of his absence.

I love the Paragon character type so much. Captain America has always been one of my favorite characters and people always question that/kinda make fun of me for it. But to me the idea of whats right/wrong is more elementary and childish (depending on the story). The idea of how to do good despite everything the story throws at you is such an interesting story and is much more relatable in my life than the basic what's good/wrong.

An amazing example of the "paragons influencing the characters around them", The Expanse's James Holden (as paragon) affecting Amos is a beautiful example of this. Holden is usually a paragon (with exceptions), and Amos struggles with telling right from wrong at all, and their combined arcs are some of the best i've seen in sci-fi

Captain Carrot of Discworld fame is a fun paragon character. I heard Pratchett planned for him to be the main character of the City Watch books, but then realized they would work better with Vimes at the center, leaving Carrot free to be as paragony as he likes.

The funny thing is, you can see the difference in both of these writing approaches in Captain America. Markus and Mcfeely (Cap trilogy, Infinity War, Endgame) said that when Joss Whedon wrote Cap in the first two Avengers movies, he made him too much of agoody-two-shoes who always follows the rules instead of the guy that lied to the government 4 times and straight up disobeys direct orders in the first half of his first movie

Looking around at some of my fandom merch, I’ve come to realize that one of my favorite types of characters is the naive paragon who slowly comes to learn about the darker, more painful and morally complex parts of the world, but instead of losing their drive to do good, they have to come to better understand what “good” is and might struggle with that, but manage to keep their genuinely kind nature throughout. Sometimes these characters even up up switching sides along the way and it’s amazing. Another type I really like is the paragon who faces the horrors of the world, does completely break, but is pulled back to themselves by the more cynical people who they impacted in the past have come to believe in them. I’m not sure they still count as paragons at that point if they have a brief period of completely turning away from their morals, but to see the others they impacted willing to help and see them regain their values and hope is also super satisfying. There are certainly morally gray characters I love, but sometimes a darker story needs someone who can either push their way through the pain or get back up again when they fall.

Regarding the paragon hero, I really like that you present the Doctor as a paragon. Regarding character arcs, every Doctor (except 13th, which isn't weel written. :/ I really hope they'll fix that in future Big Finish audio dramas) has one. One of the most compelling to me was the character arc of the Ninth Doctor, played by Christopher Eccleston. He goes from a complete journey, from a war survivor who struggles with his PTSD and has a very cynical view of the world, and can feel a bit cold and harsh, but his relationship with Rose seems to humanize him, and in the last episode, when he is faced with the same choice he had to make at the end of the time war : killing everyone to defeat the daleks, he can't do the same choice anymore, and states that he prefers to be a coward than a killer.

I think paragon heroes tend to be more interesting than antiheroes myself. I love stories that explore the idea of what it means to be good. I really love when the paragon is being tested by the events of the plot-can their light persist against the darkness of the world around them? I think my favorite paragon hero is Sora from Kingdom Hearts-particularly KHII. He’s thrown into this dilemma where defeating the monsters, and saving people helps the villains get closer to their goal, and that is really cool.

i loved the fight of superman and darkseid on the animated cartoon. At one point, darkseid thinks he has the upper hand, when superman says something along the lines of how everyone is so frail to him, and how he has to remain vigilant every waking hour to not break people or use excessive force. That fighting against darkseid was that once in a lifetime chance of cutting lose for once. It's just so fun that, after a paragon having to be thoughtful and restrained for the longest time, the star aligns to allow him to fight unabated. And often we associate a paragon character to privation, and denying temptations, a lot of passing up opportunities for pleasure because they conflict with goodness, so to make 'pleasure' and 'good' align for once is so cathartic. For those that played final fantasy xiv, its that last fight of endwalker, the duel against your rival at the end of the universe, one opportunity to explore pleasure and not have to worry about anything else.

Superman has and always will be my favourite paragon character. What breaks my heart about the Snyder films is they had something there… they had the ingredients of a paragon facing a world that does not want him to be one. And they got Captain America so right in the other side of the DC/Marvel world. Someone who doesn’t change because the world is bad, but forces the world to change. “Sometimes you have to plant your feet and tell the world, no, you move!”

Another good example of a Paragon to me is Steven from Steven Universe. Especially in Steven Universe Future when they really explore the psychological cost of everything he's been through and how much his self-worth is tied to living up to that legacy/expectation. It's something about him that gets tested time and time again as the show goes on, and you watch him get more and more drained by the things that seemingly came easy to him. Like you said, it explores how difficult it is to keep choosing good. Both when facing seemingly insurmountable odds that The Good Way will work, and also the straight-up stress of being a paragon. Because he is The Guy Who Saves Everyone, someone who can "always find a way," as the opening says, he needs to maintain that identity to keep the good he's done stable. For many characters in the show, Steven's way only works because Steven doesn't fail. It's a heartbreaking expectation to carry because any mistakes he makes or how guilty he feels or how tied he is to the problems in the first place, he has to remain a paragon. And he's just a kid, at his oldest in the show he's 16, shouldering the weight of the universe on his shoulders. I think it's an excellent examination/exploration of this archetype, and worth mentioning, so behold this comment :P

My favorite paragon character is Sailor Moon. The series was a formative one for me, coming along when I was 11 and hasn't aged too badly. All of the characters have their own virtues, but she is the axis that they revolve around.

Wildbow's web serials do this a lot--Ward and Pale feature characters that are absolutely trying to do good, or are abiding by their moral codes, but they're limited by their own traumas or restrictions. They're constantly challenged by the temptation to 'make the easy choice' by sacrificing their ideals.

The Doctor is an interesting case because how Paragon he is varies across regenerations. The third happily continued working together with and being friends with UNIT after they committed genocide in his third episode, because it would help in his essentially selfish goal to get his Tardis working, and stuck with them long after he achieved it. Admittedly he did also make the Brig better over the course of their relationship, but still he's a lot more grey than say the 10th.

One of my favorite series growing up was the Prydain Chronicles. Taran always strives to be good and do the right thing, but he still has a reasonably compelling arc over the series, from naïve foolhardiness to tempered maturity, from ignorance to wisdom. Heck, despite its simplicity Taran Wanderer is still one of my favorite books. There's something relatable about soneone struggling to find themselves and do right by those around them, even when it's hard

A lot of the struggle with writing a paragon style hero is that it is difficult to believe in their struggles against the enemy. The fact of the matter is that when you do good, real good, people appreciate and reciprocate that. If you do good at work, you get raises. And if you don't, then you punish the wrong of your higher ups by leaving, and then they will be more likely to appreciate the next person who goes above and beyond. If you do good for a neighbor,they will generally return the favor. When you do good, good is generally returned, and that helps make up for the harder times in life. If it didn't work this way then life would be a lot harder than it already is. By extension, when a character is the embodiment of some ideal of good, it feels contrived when someone is set against them. My favorite paragon character is Vash from trigun. the guy wouldn't hurt a fly, but he is constantly trying to find a way to foil his brother who is equally evil and actively trying to do him harm. And the people hate him because he has done terrible things because of who and what he is in spite of his intent. This is the same struggle that is mirrored in captain America. The sakovia (sp) accords were made because of the damage heros do when trying to save people. In the Incredibles it is the lawsuit of a guy being saved that didn't want to be saved, which then brought out resentment for the pain and trauma not properly compensated as a result of heros being involved. If you are going to have a paragon, the situation of the consequences of well intended actions is often a better foil than the actual antagonist. Syndrome is a bit part who brings a face to the situation, but isn't the problem himself. Tony was the face of the accords,but the accords were the struggle not cap v iron man. Vash has his confrontation with knives, but the issue is how people react to unregulated power regardless if it takes the form of Vash or knives. But when you have superman vs a cartoon villin who can't really cause harm to Clark, and when we know how it has to end... Yeah, it isn't compelling. And when the villin gets a win against the paragon, we often equally write it off as being unrealistic. But take a literal cartoon character as ridiculous as Vash and put him against a situation rather than a person? That becomes compelling drama. The hero can't be beaten by a person, because the paragon is undefeatable, and we want to believe that. But fighting against natural boundaries, limits and laws... That is compelling because we have all faced that moment of moral judgement where doing wrong is the easier path sometimes. Or if you can't win, why not take what joy you can from the situation before it destroys you anyways? These are the human questions that paragons can explore best. not good vs evil, but perfect vs good, or good vs mediocrity, or finding good in a universe that simply doesn't play by social rules and doesn't care about your human story.

There is a paragon character in Spanish literature - El Cid Campeador, the example for all Spanish knights - and he fights with the Moors for three years, guerrilla-style, against the will of his king, cheats the money-changers to get the money for his raid, extremely brutal fighter and killed his father-in-law on a petty duel. And still, he is a paragon because he is completely honest and noble. He is so honest and noble, even the Moors acknowledge that and offer help when El Cid's daughters were kidnapped. So paragon could be not even a good and nice person.

Except Frodo wasn't the paragon, Sam was. Sam never fell to the ring and never gave up, not for a lofty purpose but because helping his friend was the right thing to do. That said great video. Personally I like the paragon best as a measuring stick. Not the protagonist but a force in the world to show what the ideal would be to see how the rest of the world measures up to this person. Superman needs to be the best of the heroes so the other heroes have a comparison, not in power but in action. Actively choosing to do what Superman wouldn't is a choice that means something in the setting. All-Might in My Hero Academia is another great deconstruction that doesn't undermine his Paragon status but rather shows how it can negatively impact the world around him in spite of him doing only good and working to save everyone he could.

A fav paragon character for me is Sun from Black Summer. I appreciate the difficulties she goes through as being very morally good while surrounded by amoral people, and how it gets her hurt but her faith in other people and value in their life isn’t shaken

I think my favourite paragon hero is James Holden from the EXPANSE series. His inflexible morality is treated both as a good and a bad thing, as he refuses to let the world turn him into a bad person. And yet, he still changes over the course of the story, when he sees the consequences of his choices. Great balanced writing for a great character.

A hero archetype I personally love is the hero their friends can’t respect. Those who sacrifice themselves, but end up hurting those they love. Which sometimes ends in a betrayal in order to save the hero. Sacrifices shouldn’t be a norm.

Just cause a character has a pure heart or stands for stellar morals doesn’t mean they don’t experience conflicts or don’t have room to grow. Good morals doesn’t mean they are perfect. A paragon can always learn from their friends and their own failures, mistakes, and hardships. Which makes for great internal conflict and character arcs. The possibilities are endless.

Hm, its interesting thinking about the paragons role. I've read two book serieses where the paragon character was a veiwpoint character, but actually had more impact by how they influenced their anti-hero best friend than by what they actually did themselves. But one story where that isn't true is Rise of Phoenixes. Ning Yi is a paragon, and while he does transform some people around him, one of his great struggles is that he can't transform the world enough to keep those people safe (and often by being close to him, they are endangered). That, right there, is what he wants more than anything: to at least make the world safe for the people he cares about, but even more than that, to be able to have a family, again. That drama does such a good job of making Ning Yi relatable because doing the right thing always, always costs him. I think that might be a key with paragons. Make doing the right thing cost something, at least some of the time.

I like the use of My Hero Academia here. Deku is very much a paragon inspired by a paragon and goes into one of his character flaws; he never thinks of himself or his own safety. It's also shown that he takes it to extremes and gets criticized for it in-story alot. Bakugo's growth is shown in him see in wanting to save Deku from himself. Also What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way? is one of the best examinations of Superman.

Loved this one! My favorite stories center around heroic characters, and I've kinda gotten burned out on "gritty reimaginings." Sometimes life is hard enough as it is. Sometimes what I want from a story is to be inspired and feel like the world could be a better place. In my own novel, I've really enjoyed the experience of exploring a group of different "good" characters all dealing with the fallout of a significant event, and how they each process their emotions and responses differently. Also, extra thrumbs-up for the return of "A Wizard Did It", been missing that. ;) Also, also, makes my nerdy-soul happy to see all the board games behind you!

Another thing I do to make my own paragon characters make mistakes and have flaws not related to the values they champion. Like being hot headed, lacking in caution, etc. They still choose to do the right things every time but they don’t always go about it in the right ways. HelloFutureMe brings up Ned Stark and he’s a great example of this. Robb is also similar.

Something I'd love to see an episode on is writing in a way that leaves things open. I play a lot of Destiny and they have a particular writing method that allows them to give the illusion that things are planned out much better than they actually are. I think they've even got a name for it, though googling that name hasn't turned up anything. Open door writing or something like that? Writing in a way that leaves things open and vague.

"You abandoned me Clark, and for what? To save some random people who "needed" you!? Why Clark?" Lois's voice trembled yet she retained an air of authority in her voice "Why?!" I lashed out in rage "Tell me this Lois, If I had never decided to go down this path, If I decide to not use my powers for good then how many more people would have died horrific deaths at the hands of Darksied? You think this is easy??? What's to say you wouldn't have died if I didn't decide to become super man". I don't really know much about Dc but I thought this was an interesting little interaction between Lois and Clark that uses the principles in this video

Bold of you not to mention Sam Vimes! My favourite moment of his is in Thud! when he's describing reading his son his favourite book, every night, at 6 o'clock, and goes on to talk about how, maybe, he could be two minutes late. Maybe five. But if you'd go to five, you'd go to ten, then half an hour, so he can't make any compromises or any excuses. It extends to pretty much everything he does, and that's what makes him the hero. On another note, I'm an enjoyer of Arknights, which features the heroine, Amiya. She starts off as more of a person with ideology but little power of her own. Sure, she's a powerful caster, but that means little in the face of societally and socially instituted cruelty and hatred that pervades her world, and for a long time, she feels she can't save anyone. Everyone she tries to help dies anyway and she's unable to do anything about the people causing it. Still, she persists, people start believing in her as the story goes on, her cause becomes a movement, and eventually, after many battles and sacrifices, they start to get some wins.

I love this one, idk why, but I just love characters who always strive to do good and positively influence others. I also like seeing the interesting stories that can be made with them involved Edit: Learning about Lyra makes me want to check out that story. Good showcase of paragon having inner conflict

3:13 I want to see Paragons grapple more with what what IS good. I want to write a story about two paragons with different moral beliefs but both paragons.

I just finished rereading Elantris so Raoden is the top paragon on my mind as I watch this. I have heard people call him boring. I love him! The whole, he does the right thing but it costs seems to be the most played up one with him. As always thanks for the excellent content!

What I love about the Doctor as a paragon, is how his values are confronted against the amorality of others. Some of my favourites episodes are the ones were he's faced with the intolerance or cruelty of humans beings, and just loose is temper because he cannot stand anymore the suffering and lack of empathy around him. Like in the Rebel Flesh / The Almost People, in which Eleven is faced with the horrible treatment given by humans to synthetic live forms with their consciousness. Or The Beast Below, with the torture of an innocent space creature. He has such peaceful ideals that it is almost painful to see him confronted with the worst of humanity. But it is also because he's so moved by it all that he's inspiring others. Even when he act "bad", like in the "The Waters of Mars" scenario evoked here, it's because he cannot stand more deaths, more suffering. Ten decides that he can choose to change time and became a sort of God at that moment because he's not able to just live and let's all those people die, just because Time says they did. All the bad decisions of the Doctor are guided by his will to save and help others more than anything, or his incapacity to stand more of a cruel and unjust situation. I just love him so much as a character ...

i was rewatching merphy's avatar series yesterday and this reminds me of how aang was constantly finding ways he can do his duty as the avatar without crossing his morals and believes as an airbender.

I'm just thinking of Rengoku Kyojuro from Demon Slayer, and how his compassion and morals is what spurs the main character's progression as a person and his journey, largely due to Rengoku's death because he kept those principles and that kindness.

Sora is absolutely my favorite paragon of all time. His story leans into two things, the first is your point #5, the way he affects everyone around him is a large part of the moral message of the story. He's there for people when they need him. The second thing they do is shape his personal arc around his maturity and self esteem. The Kingdom Hearts story is one about growing up and all the hardships with it. The author doesn't want kids to grow and become hardened so he shows how Sora is able to grow while still being a paragon.

Thats why I love fanfiction, giving character development to the paragon

One of my favourite stories is How to Train Your Dragon 2, which I now realise puts Hiccup in the paragon role. His outlook and approach to peace isn't wrong, but he learns that leadership isn't as simple as having positive ideals. It feels like an incorporating-the-shadow type of story more than anything

The point about the Doctor's role in changing the people around him reminds me of Luffy from One Piece (Spoilers for approx the end of Dressrosa below) One of the running themes of the show is how Luffy, through his singleminded determination and strange insightfulness and charisma draws in those around him. There's a moment where fleet after fleet of pirate crews that Luffy and the Strawhats befriended pledge themselves to the crew, against the will of Luffy, making him the unintentional leader of a giant armada.

I think my favorite paragon character from TV is Jack from LOST. It was a smart writing choice to make him a doctor because embedded in his core traits is that medical ethos of "first, do no harm." He's always wanting to make the right decisions (it was his job as a surgeon) and do good, but as the person all the castaways looked to as a leader, he felt a responsibility towards them, and it gives him a "savior complex." That, along with the intrinsic challenges of surviving all the crazy on that show made him a hero who was flawed and not boring.

I was literally wondering how long it would be till you would just onto Nebula after your debut video essay. Glad to see you've joined up with them!!

As far as I understand it there is significant overlap between a paragon character and a mentor character (influencing the other characters rather than having their own arc, seeing through the Lie that others believe). It would be interesting to know where they differ, in your opinion, given that you haven’t mentioned it yet. And again, a very insightful and helpful video, kudos!

Favourite paragon would be Tenma from Naoki Urasawa's Monster, a 74 episode show of someone doing the "right thing" and suffering the consequences almost every time.

Sometimes, you gotta show what the Hero would do without powers as well. "What would you do if no one was looking" applies to this as well.

I quite enjoyed how they used the paragon theme in Once Upon a Time through the Saviour. Firstly we have Emma Swan who had ended up in jail and had a criminal past, giving birth to her son Henry in Jail. Her paragon-ness shines through in Storybrooke because she has this sense of righting an injustice in protecting Henry from Regina and then by the end of the season and into season 2 has to come to terms with being a literal magical embodiment of goodness and love. By season 4 we learn that she had all of her potential for darkness displaced into Maleficent's child and ironically it is this knowledge, coupled with her innate goodness that actually drives her to turn dark, killing Cruella in a scene that should be a straightforward disney-hero-killing-villain, but since Cruella can't actually kill anyone she is at Emma's mercy and is defenceless when she dies. Emma also kills her with magic which in world this a sure fire way to turn it dark and blacken her heart. Then by the season finale she embraces the Darkness to become The Dark One so that Regina won't fall again, but because of her extra-goodness she becomes this strange utilitarian character who does have a dark plan but never really becomes evil. It's only through the eyes of the other characters expecting her to be evil now that she is particularly dark and her worst crime is turning her love interest into a second Dark One which makes him lose the internal battle with the darkness he had been wrestling with from his former villainous ways. In Season 6 they make Emma even more interesting by comparing her to other saviours, Aladdin and Rumpelstiltskin, both of whom were severed from their fate: Aladdin did so by choice because the burden of being the Saviour was too much for him and had started to take the physical toll that Emma also began to suffer, and Rumpel being severed as a baby by his mother because his destiny was to die saving the lives of children, sending him on a spiral to become one of the darkest souls in all the realms. Emma now sees the consequences of both fulfilling her destiny and being severed from it and it's very clear throughout the season that she has just about had enough of "never getting a day off". Twice that season she has an opportunity to escape her destiny but both times she does not because doing so would have let her son commit murder or meant the permanent erasure of all the realms of story. She also realized that the only way to win the final battle is not to kill her opponent because that would darken her soul which is the only way to snuff out the light. In fact the final battle is won moreso by Rumpelstiltskin doing the right thing than by Emma being triumphant in a physical conflict with a dark antagonist. What's also interesting about Emma is that she is the daughter of the ultimate paragons of true Love, Snow White and Prince Charming but we learn through their backstories that both have done the wrong thing, especially Snow who had murdered Regina's mother and deviously tricked Regina into being an instrument of that murder. There is a great scene where Snow asks Regina, The Evil Queen to kill her, and in examining Snow's heart, Regina learns with glee that the murder has created a spot of darkness on it. The moral victory here is actually Regina's and in one of the most powerful scenes in the show, she delights in relating to Snow how she will only grow darker and ultimately bring down her own family without Regina having to do a thing. This adds a new dimension to the conflict between good and evil in the show because evil doesn't have to actively conquer good, light can snuff itself out by doing dark things, which puts a much greater burden on the paragons of good in the show because they have to actively do good instead of just not being bad.

Love a paragon character like Professor X and the contrast he presents against his longtime friend-foe Magneto. Constantly inspiring mutants/humans/himself with hope for future harmony, but the lengths that hatred goes makes the viewer sometimes question if his way always works, which is interesting. Also, I think Logan explores how to make a paragon character like that tragic by having him unintentionally committing a heinous act and living a destitute, isolated life despite all the good he's done.

Your videos are always so good to watch I love that you can take a step back and calmly prove your point without having millions of flashy things (dont get me wrong the editing (and jokes) are great I enjoy the way you look at things from an emotional, relatable level pls keep making more videos

I think another thing that makes paragon characters interesting is that they don't always do what's right, they always do what they *think* is right. A paragon character fiercely loyal to the "wrong" side, or one that realizes they haven't been a very good person, are both ways to use this to create paragons either from a different perspective or to give paragon characters an arc. That said, I love the paragon archetype in its standard form too.

The Batman is an excellent example of how the "unrelenting good" can be handled and showed in a compelling and interesting way without coming across as cheesy or corny

My favourite paragon character is The Doctor I really like how he inspires people to do the right thing and that he sometimes struggles with doing the right when things aren’t always black and white and he always tries to do the right thing even know he never gets a reward or recognition for it

I'm waiting so hard for your on writing 3 book, it will be so useful

You talked a lot about how other heroes and supporting characters react to paragons, but I feel like it is just as narratively satisfying to watch the villains react. Having a paragon completely surprise the villain because the villain can't comprehend how someone would be so selfless, so resilient, is just such an epic moment. Alternatively, a villain who DOES understand the paragon can take the story in a very different direction - either a tragedy for the hero (they know the villain is playing them but they can't not do the right thing) or a tragedy for the villain (who sees the paragon stand strong, but can't bring themself to overcome their own flaws).

I don't know if Lyra is a true paragon hero. Like, she have no problems to lie to get what she wants, and in the second book when she encounters Will and ask the alethiometer who he is, she's relieved to know that he's a murderer. She's a paragon, but of her own moral code that is, anything is permitted to let me and my friends survive ^^

Favourite Paragon characters, probably Superman, Naruto and All Might. If ever I hear people say that characters like Superman are boring or uninterested I tell them to watch/read All Star Superman and Superman vs the Elite to help give them a different perspective

I'm ALWAYS pumped to get back to reading/writing after your videos

That's why I like Sword & Sorcery stories There's no thinking and pondering involved if a maiden need saving the mc saves her if a monster needs slaying the mc slays it end of story.