Never really considered the channel "family friendly" and some topics discussed wouldn't always be appropriate to younger viewers. I love this channel personally, though. I have been watching for years now.
I mean, the me who first discovered your channel is what I would call child age and I loved those theory videos. I'd say that the writing videos aren't family friendly, but a lot of other stuff is
The clever choice to call a cockroach a grasshopper to get hundreds of engagement comments correcting you is nearly as brilliant as the rest of the content of your video! Very well done, sir.
Their relationship was wonderful over the trilogy but that one moment truly cemented just how close they actually were. No matter what Frodo did to Sam, Sam loves him and he is going to make sure that Frodo is succeeding
I feel like one massive video on dark and sensitive topics (not just mental illness, more like morality, abuse, cruelty, trauma and the like) and how to write them respectfully and intergrate them into your worldbuilding and characters would be so so wonderful and worthwhile to see
@@ashtonpeterson4618 Yes! Its one of my favorite videos of all time, its so thoughtful and well done. I'd love to see more videos concerning such topics
@@heywhat6676 I'm not sure if you like Avatar the Last Airbender show or not but you'd probably like his video analyzing Azula then. Mental health stuff
@@privateemail9755 One of them's a detritivore, the other is an herbivore. And if words are made up, then I guess you wouldn't mind a Jabberwock showing up on your door and flagellating you with its' tail at your request.
0:25 'The last piece of cake has been eaten, and the cake was a lie anyway.' Dude, you never fail to crack me up while simultaneously remain educational. This is just brilliant.
"Do you have families? Are you friendly?" No, because I'am the protagonist of this universe. My family was killed by the Dark Lord, I was betrayed by those I called friends and all feelings of responsibility to give back to the world have been lost to me. I am no longer friendly. This... this is my darkest hour.
Tired: iT's NoT a GrAsShOpPeR iT's A cOcKrOaCh Wired: Calling it a grasshopper got lots of people to comment, very clever Inspired: *It's a cockroach named "Grasshopper" because Wall-E doesn't have enough context about human culture and language to understand the difference*
To me the version of the mental illness darkest hour is this. It’s not when they decide not to kill themselves but later one when they are trying to get better and they have to choose the hard way to get better instead of relapsing. It’s on the journey up but at the moment when they can either choose to let themselves fall back deeper into depression or do the hard personal work to reach out for help that is required for them to get better
The symmetry in that wall-e scene goes further, as Eve at the beginning is robot-like and the flip of that is heart wrenching. Just compounds the emotion of losing the character that has had such impact on the rest of the cast
Hey just wanted to let you know I really really appreciate your videos. I may not be a writer but i am making a world as a little passion project, and graham the wizard who likes cats many various journeys have been incredibly helpful! Thank you so much! I can’t wait to pick up on writing and world building 2. All praise Momo
I think Sanderson made a great use of a darkest hour for a character with a mental illness in The Rhythm of War, that if done poorly could look like the thing you said shouldn't be done -emerging from a suicide attempt into a glorious climactic victory. But I think the key to make it right were a couple of things. Firstly, the depressed state that drove the character to try to end their life was not just the result of a bad thing that had just happened, but something that had been established throughout the whole book, and even in the previous ones. And second, even though there is a moment of emerging victorious right after, once the climax has passed it is left VERY clear that the character is not out of the woods, and that the progress they made is only the first step on a long road to recovery. So it doesn't become a magical solution that made depression go away instantly. Anyways, Brandon is awesome, so it's not surprising he was able to pull off such an impactful arc =)
Another huge moment of darkest hour, Dalinar in OB. He is destroyed by the knowledge of his past and that's not really resolved when he goes out to the battlefield, he's just pushing on. Its at that climactic confrontation that his arc really comes to a head
Also - another reason Kal works is he doesn't just get power of friendship. There's a profound reveal and discussion with a lost connection that is believable as temporarily adjusting his mindstate.
@@DandDgamer and it affects though closest to him, specifically Syl, negatively when he can't deal with it, which is sad, but realistic. Living with someone struggling with Mental Illness is hard, and it's just a detail I liked.
Oh, wait, Tim! I've asked before, but do you think you'll ever do a video on introducing new characters? (to an established cast). I know that Toph is probably the gold example, but I think Stranger Things does a pretty good job of it as well.
“It’s like in the old stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. Sometimes you didn’t want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened?” … “There’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for!”
I really appreciate the final point of how mental illness doesn't just "go away" after winning through the darkest hour. I'd add that if you want to end a story of mental illness with a character truly putting everything behind them to live happily ever after, the darkest hour is not them in their worst state, but rather them looking back at that state and falsely believing how a return to it would solve all their problems. Then the victory becomes the resolve to never go back
Great video. My one disagreement is with the idea that Batman's Character Failure in the darkest hour of the Dark Knight is realizing that he will have to compromise his ethics. The intrusive surveillance gimmick doesn't conflict with his code in the slightest; as he explicitly states to the Joker, he has ONE rule. His Character Failure is that when given the choice between a character who represents the one chance for his own personal happiness and a character who represents the one chance for Gotham's salvation, he chooses "selfishly" to save Rachel (that the Joker lied about which was which is an extra kick in the teeth that adds to his Plot Failure). Bruce's conflict is whether he can be both a man and a symbol, and this darkest hour causes him to abandon any hope of a life for Bruce Wayne and commit 100% to his mission as Batman. This also functions as the darkest hour for the trilogy as a whole, which is not resolved until he reintegrates his personas and finds happiness as Bruce at the end of Dark Knight Rises.
The Joker technically never lied. He openly tells Batman that he will have to kill either one of them, and that "the act of killing is about making a choice", but Batman misreads the Joker and doesn't listen to his words. Joker gave batman the choice to kill Racheal or Harvey and Batman chooses Racheal. I've watched The Dark Knight 5 times now, and only just picked that up.
@@noah8916 Nice catch that Joker toys with him by obliquely hinting at the game he's playing, but I'm sorry, he very explicitly lies. "He's at 250 52nd Street. And she's at Avenue X at Cicero." That's a lie.
Oh god, I simply HATE stories where mental illness is magically healed by the main character finally getting together with their love interest 🙄🙄 MI isn‘t a switch that can be flipped on and off, yet some writers still think it is :/ Great video! Thanks :)
One of my favourite things about The Stromlight Archive is just this - one of the main characters suffers from depression, and he is in a constant struggle with it throughout the books. He has darkest hours that end with him making good choices and steps on the road to get better, but it's a never ending road - he relapses when tragedy strikes, and he isn't perfectly mentally well in his best moments. He just wakes up every day and chooses to keep going. His average state is slowly getting better, but I don't think he'll even "fully recover". Some people find it very taxing to read but I find it very relatable and cathartic
Darkest hours are probably my favorite parts of stories, and I think whether or not they can pull it off successfully is a true test of an author's skill. Everything that the characters were built up to by all of the pages before lead up to how they handle their darkest hours.
As a reader I find my most common problem with darkest hours is when they finish too quickly or thoroughly. Consider drawing them out, or only resolving them as much as is required to get your characters back in the story. Particularly if you have a series then you can have a lot of things be broken in character at once, and you can resolve them one by one, as needed for various climaxes, without needing to break more stuff every time. Or you can even show that the things that readers thought were fixed maybe weren't as stable as they once believed.
The character not resolving it but having axioms that allow them to continue anyway can work. The character values life as an axiom or freewill as an axiom, the antagonist maybe brings up the fallout to the characters actions or some hypocrisy or paradox with the protagonists actions or world view, darkest hour, protagonist doesn't resolve the internal problem but chooses to continue as he puts his problems in the back burner. Like a damaged flawed protagonist I guess.
I recently had a big thought about the "Good Story Problem" and life not having these kinds of climax and darkest hours. great to see content about it.
There's a lot of darkest hours there just aren't as many resolutions. In stories there will be some big redemption but in the real world redemption isn't one big act that saves humanity, it's small acts over years and years as you become the person you wanted to be. Getting your shit together, volunteering, taking time to reflect on yourself, who you are, who you want to be, accepting yourself for who you are today while acknowledging it can be better and taking steps to make it happen. Learning to love yourself while being able to be critical of yourself too.
Froddo does pass his darkest hour, but afterwards you can feel that mentally he'll never be the same. He's permanently traumatised and can't return to the perfect life he had before. Him leaving for the Undying Lands gives you hope that he's on the road to reaching his happy ending
The Tenth Doctor’s character arc across season 4 and into the special episodes (especially The Waters of Mars) is one of my favourite character arcs written.
Honestly, I never thought that the time on the lion turtle was Aang's darkest hour, as he was doing all he could to sticking to his morals. I think, his darkest hour was in the first episode of season three where he seemed not even to realize that he was about to toss his morals out of the window, where he was not pondering over sticking to his morals, but already made a decision to act.
I think one of my all time favorite darkest hours was in Words of Radiance. Those who have read Stormlight know what I’m talking about. But I don’t want to spoil anything for those that haven’t.
Kaladin is the person the archetypal protagonist wishes they were. Really, Stormlight is just great for darkest hours, great and small and across multiple character arcs.
The Way of Kings has a very interesting take on the Darkest Hour and story structure. We the audience see it where you'd expect to, right before the climax of the story. For Kaladin though, it happens between chapters 1 and 2, and he spends the rest of the book dealing with it.
more like the rest of the series, but I see your point. I’d argue that that is just his default, and his darkest hours are more like just darker hours. For example, Kaladins darker hour in book one is when he loses Syl, and his climax is when he chooses to defend Elkohar despite hating the guy and realistically having no chance. (At this point he has lost his powers, have a broken leg and is facing two full shardbearers)
I’d argue the true darkest hour is losing Tien, he spends the first book dealing with it, his ‘Tiens’ getting massacred is just the climax of the darkest hour.
I know Tim always jokes about Australia being a mythical land that doesn't exist but he's officially convinced me today when he referred to a cockroach as a grasshopper.
Thanks for always saying something to the effect of "Don't be rigid with your structure. Use these as guidelines to make your story the best it can be." I get so sick of people saying even that story has to follow the 3 act structure. It's just a useful tool. Great vid!
I really, _really_ like point 3, that not every story "needs" a Darkest Hour. People put this trope up on a pedestal as THE ONLY WAY (tm) to write ANY story, but that is just not true. You shouldn't _necessarily_ write any story according to a single formula (Darkest Hours / Hero's Journey included), storycrafting is *art more than science.*
This might be my favorite video from this channel. It made me start thinking about my own writing, and how so much of the darkest hour can be built up before it happens, which can fill a book with more important content! This is literally why I love this channel. I learn so much every video.
8:30 That's actually a cockroach. It's a great thematic companion for Wall-E, since it's the only kind of creature that can survive on this hellscape we've created for ourselves
The problem with AoU, is that there are like seven arcs moving at different speeds. If you took each arc individually it would be more clear. Like if it was a crossover series of comics, with each characters story told in their own book. It's unfortunate that it all kind of gets muddied together.
I’ve just been reading Stephen Fry’s “Troy” (I really recommend it!), and he mentions “aristeia” a couple times, which is the opposite of the darkest hour: the finest hour, the time to shine, the moment in time for which you were born, the culmination of your destiny. Now, hearing this great explanation and break-down of the darkest hour, I think I see why the Iliad can run on for so long: it’s because there are several plot-related and character-related dark hours, and the story combines one character’s darkest hour with another character’s finest hour. Not only that, but in the Iliad, the two sides have their separate finest hours: one army’s advance must be the other’s retreat, so this old epic mastered the use of these two techniques wonderfully. It might be worthwhile to have a video on this antipode though, the finest hour, to see how it’s been integrated in modern literature.
The darkest hour can be a turning point when the hero decides to become the villain because they want to protect someone or a circumstance, usually caused by selfishness. Example, Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.
Funny thing about Infinity War is that it kind of depends in which perspective you’re viewing the story from. It’s true that from the Avengers’ perspective it’s the middle of the darkest hour but when you look at the story from Thanos’s perspective he has actually completed his full arc by that point, his darkest hour in my opinion being when he sacrifices Gamora
Good vid. My wife and I are currently rewatching Angel (one of my favourite shows) and we recently watched Reprise, which is a perfect “Darkest hour” episode, and a culmination of the arc throughout season 2 so far. And the consequences carry on through the rest of the season and into the next.
I was just thinking, would you say there is a darkest hour in "The Godfather?" If I had to say there is one, I would say it is in the middle of the movie when he decides to kill Sollozzo. Instead of redeeming himself and getting out though, he instead falls deeper and deeper into the family business. I guess that's a feature of tragedy, which wasn't really discussed in the video. Instead of getting redemption from the darkest hour, the protagonist falls deeper and deeper into the dark.
Infinity War is definitely my favorite MCU movie. These darkest hour moments in the franchise often feel less satisfying because they just get brushed over so quickly. Having this massive world ending threat looming over the characters for years at that point, everyone truly giving their best effort to win this fight, then loose anyway and letting them (and the audience) sit with this failure for a long time was a brilliant move. Also, I was so happy for the shoutout to Beartown, one of my favorite books I read last year. It juggled multiple heavy topics with respect and even though it has sequels now, if you read it as a standalone it has the perfect balance of closing character arcs but still feeling open-ended enough to give it just an extra sprinkle of realism. I usually hate these '10 years from now' type of sequences, but there's one instance when Backman pulled it off. He talks about the three best players of the new team stepping out to the rink together and mentions '10 years from now, one of them is going to be pro, the other a family man back home, the third one dead.' (Not a direct quote, I haven't read the book in English.) I have my guess to which one refers to which boy, but it honestly could go almost either way and that's just makes it so much more intrigueing.
So, surprisingly, Frozen 2 has an amazing darkest hour for Anna. She is literally and figuratively in a dark place and questions who she is without Elsa and whether she can continue on. Probably the best darkest hour in modern Disney princess movies.
That joke about Brad Pitt's wife was a war crime And you said DOOBLY-DOO I understood that reference. You have excellent taste Final amendment, your channel is suitably family friendly and I like it
About the Tenth Doctor's darkest hour in The Waters of Mars: I'd seen that episode before I watched David Tennant's run all the way through, but when I got to that point I was screaming "NO DOCTOR, NO!"
Always with perfect timing. These videos always help me in my writing for my many projects. One day I’ll support this channel via patreon but until then good work as always
I've got five kids, two stepkids, and sometimes they watch your videos with me. Two of my girls are into writing, so they are taking notes and love your videos as much as I do. So yeah, mate, you're a family friendly channel. :D
Thank you. You're truly inspiring. I just finished a three-months-hanging chapter because of your impassioned speech about non-canon structures being okay.
The mental illness bit reminds me of Kiki Kallira Breaks a Kingdom by Sangu Mandanna, a middle-grade fantasy I picked for the Indian mythology, not expecting it to also be one of the best depictions of OCD I've seen. In it, Kiki overcomes her darkest moment not by 'beating' her OCD, but by realizing it's an illness instead of a personal or moral failing. And the person who helps Kiki see this... well, this moment of connection gives a lot more impact to a later scene with that person.
Thanks Tim. I've been struggling to get in to writing and having people tell me that there's a structure that you don't necessarily have to follow helps!
Oh you bastard you, that's not fair springing "I can carry you!" on me like that. Now I'm sitting here crying over my morning coffee; that's my favourite scene in all of media.
the one version of this trope i am an absolute sucker for, that will rip out my heartstrings every time, is the "you're not alone" moment. when the character is at their weakest, ready to give up, and in most cases, either has become isolated, or has pushed their companions away because of their giving up...and yet everyone comes back to help them and bring them back. funny enough, i've noticed this a lot more in video games than other mediums. FF9, undertale, and to a lesser degree, mass effect.
Maybe it’s because games are longer than films. You have more time with those characters to connect with them, which makes that moment more meaningful. Interactive media also gives control to the player which can strengthen connections. Games like Undertale only give you that ending if you went out of your way to seek friendship out and it would mean something.
I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts on The Green Knight! It has one of my favorite Darkest Hours in film and Dev Patel certainly restores his own honor
This came in just in time! I'm in the middle of planning my fantasy story and my main character has a huuuge traumatic setback about the middle of the story. This video is gonna help me structure it better and i thank you good sir!💕💕👏🏽👏🏽
This video came out at the perfect time for me! I've been struggling with the midpoint of my story that should be the lowest point of the whole thing, but I just could not figure out how to make it as such. So this was fantastic, I took a bunch of notes and believe I've got a pretty good idea about the direction from which I can tackle writing this now! The concepts of reaction, dilemma, decision, were particularly helpful, especially since I already had an external force coming in right after to steer the character away from the hate and anger that they were spiralling into, so I think I've got a better idea of how to make it all work together now. Thank you!
It is uncanny how suitable this video is for me right now. Just a couple of hours ago I wrote the first draft of a chapter that turned out bad because I had no idea what exactly is its point. I just knew something like that needs to happen. Now I know that must be about the main character's mental troubles beginning to heal. It fits perfectly to what happens in the chapter and the theme of the book.
I haven't watched your vids in a while. I'll say it straight up I missed your insights, you taught me allot of stuff I know I about writing. Happy to be back.
It really it cool to me how sincerely you talk about writing and worldbuilding and mental health, and the way you express that is really admirable. I've been working on a variety of writing projects since highschool and your videos have helped me slowly reform my ideas into better works, and as someone autism and Adhd, and is prone to being anxious, it's cool how much you care. Really hope goods things come your way Hellofutureme
Point number 3 is why I'm so excited to explore the darkest hour in my current writing project. Sometimes going through a darkest hour or rather several of them, especially in our teenage years marks the point where we have a lasting change in ourselves because we're forced to see things in a new light and/or because what we lost has hurt us so deeply that we change in many ways to prevent getting hurt in the same way again. I'm personally am excited to explore how the death of a relationship is going to affect my protag. It's going to cause a somewhat major tone shift to the story wich makes me wonder what are some examples of some successful major tone shifts in a story you've read/seen that happened more than half way through the story?
I really love that talking about it is the moment when you realize the character is on the path of healing in your story. I've run out of too many therapy offices to not know how hard that one step is XD And yes, you can bribe me with the adorable Emperor Momo This is an amazing video, thank you so much.
The fact that you didn't use the movie "Seven" as an example for your point seven, was disappointing. Still, one of the best channels on RU-vid, and a great episode! Thanks Tim!
Your channel is incredibly wholesome. I watch it to relax. I really like To Kill a Mockingbird's darkest hour. It's not when they lose the trial. That hurt like hell and it's hard to be hopeful considering how the odds are stacked against them, but Scout makes you want to anyway. Can they really condemn a good, innocent man to death even if he is black? There has to be a way out. Then he's dead. There's nothing else to do except clean up the mess left behind. Care for his widow and children and try not to hate the world. I suppose that's the victory. Atticus doesn't stop fighting for justice and Scout becomes passionate about making the country better.
The Darkest hour for the main character of the story I've been writing on and off for quite a while isn't taking away something. Rather it's giving him what he "wanted". But due to the nature of what he wanted(Or I should say, in this case "wanted to be"), it is the darkest hour for everyone. Including himself, but he doesn't really realize this which is half the problem. For that arc he will be an Antagonist to the rest of the cast due to his course of action. What's kind of interesting to me is I really need to think hard about what will pull him out of this. The way I've developed him, just to snap him out of it initially is going to take something drastic. And obviously, blunt force trauma or Love aren't going to fix it when the latter is part of the reason this situation even took place. Even when he's pulled out of it, it's still going to be a process as this mindset of his is very deep seeded. Then it's a question of how do the people who care about him help prevent this from happening again. Sorry, I'm being vague to shorten my comment. Great video!
Your work is amazing. I could just listen to you talk for hours on different literary topics and just never get bored. Thank you for creating this content.
Thank you so much for touching on the mental health aspect. As someone who's been trying to deal with depression and anxiety (and god-knows what else), seeing movies and shows where depression is 'cured' by some trite is super disheartening and damaging to people struggling. I love that you brought that up and I hope this reaches a lot of authors to help them change that practice
I did kind of one of these in my story. My main character was victimized in an attack, and he had to learn how to be vulnerable and get the mental health help he needed. (as you can tell it's a realistic fiction and not a fantasy story lol)
I think one of my favorite examples of a darkest hour is in Metal gear rising's dlc for Jetstream sam. During the main story Sam is an antagonist you kill before the final boss, but his dlc paints him as against the same person you were. His "darkest hour" is when he loses. He fails resulting in a loss of his arm and his honor. It doesn't help him ever take down the big baddie, but it makes it all the more satisfying that we did all while reinforcing the danger of this villain.
I think next to a mental darkest hour, many stories within fantasy or adventure (also) have a "physical" darkest hour. The characters gave what they thought was the big end fight their best go. It failed. Your protagonist only narrowly escaped with their life, but lost not just their good spirits: they might be physically injured, sometimes permanently. They might have revealed their plan, have the place they stayed destroyed or (some) are captured or are on the run. They now have to do that same fight they lost, but in way worse conditions, with an enemy that knows they are coming. They don't feel down in the dumps, they feel scared shitless.
I recently discovered this channel Dude ... I'm in love with your mind. For real. You're so eloquent and smart, you work hard and I can not wait to read your book when it comes out because boy oh boy, it's gonna be good if it comes from that beautiful brain of yours !
I am so happy I found this channel through your collaboration with Overly Sarcastic Productions. Your media analysis helps put much into words I couldn't quite reach on my own and teaches me more every day about not only how fantastic stories help reach audiences with their use of literary techniques and creative exposition, but also puts into perspective things like mental illness as a trope and how, if handled incorrectly, can harm a community and misrepresent proper identification and care. I am so excited to engage with all of your content!!!!
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