They definitely didn't handle every character in the best way possible, but I do like the idea of a story based around heroes publicly admitting that they need help, too. It's a good message.
I dont like this. I like the idea of Sanctuary but I HATE what they did to Wally West. They could have had Wally West accidentally kill people... BUT having him consciously frame Booster and Harley is so god damn out of character I cant even....
Out of curiosity, why do you like the idea of Sanctuary? I'm genuinely curious because the whole system seems absolutely horrifying to me and sounds like a list of how not to handle patients in need of psychological help.
@@williamharmon4039 I like the idea of a these heroes and even villains having to deal with real shit. Having a neutral place where they are free to process emotionally. It adds an interesting layer to the world. I am always interested in the little things in day to day life with super heroes. Not their secret indenties but their hero identies dealing with stuff beyond 'saving the day'' and leaving.
@@GreatGreenGoo I agree that sounds interesting, but Sanctuary itself is what I have a problem with. That facility practically did everything it could to make the patients' mental states worse. Isolating them from support groups and mental health professionals they could actually talk with, giving them the means to keep reliving their trauma like Lagoon Boy did with no oversight, and basically berating Wally for being unable to get over his trauma. The way the actual facility was run was pretty much the total opposite of how PTSD victims and others with mental health problems should be treated. It served to facilitate a mental breakdown and enable the murder mystery plot rather than help anyone get over their trauma. Also, all the patients' confession videos being released at the end without their knowledge or consent is a major violation of privacy and ethics.
I mean he was literally so "unhinged" per say, that he accidentally killed them, so for him to have so much distress and guilt he'll do something so strange, trust me killing a person fucks you up, and the moments after are what is most important
@@williamharmon4039They probably should've also had you know real doctors and professionals at the facility. And not just some A.I with the minds of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in it's programming. They may be great heroes but they are not experts in phycological trauma and the last time Batman designed a A.I it nearly destroyed the entire Justice League and conquered the earth.
Brother, you definitely put a lot of emotion into Wallys' character for this story!!! I truly felt the sadness and confusion coming through!!! It was Awesome!!!
Maybe, but if you really think about it there is a gigantic amount of pressure on Wally's shoulders. He had the perfect life with a family that he can't ever seem to connect with, trapped in a universe where everyone is similar to him but being a complete stranger, he was completely alone and unable to trust anyone, especially Barry Allen. He was dealt a truly awful hand and broke under the strain which resulted in his erratic behaviour; he wanted to at least show what he felt to the entire world so that they understood his and everyone's pain. I for one can totally believe that even a great person like Wally West could snap completely, and needed a way of stopping Barry Allen interfering long enough to do what he had to do. That was the twist, even a great hero can snap completely under circumstances and need help. The interesting thing for me is how they are going to allow Wally West to become a hero again.
@@davidkosiborod8255 if he won't I will, this story was awesome, except for the Gotham girl part that seemed like it was just kinda tacked on and forgotten about, and I think it humanized Wally so perfectly, he's lost so much, it would weigh heavily on anyone, especially someone that already has the weight of the world (or In his case universe) on his shoulders, (quite literally in fact), and the fact that he didn't completely break, shows the hope that's still left in him.
@@chunky5373 me neither, Im still very pissed off, not to mention Im currently discovering a lot of post crisis stuff and Wally is one of my favorite character at this point
I loved the concept of this story. But wally has had way to much shit happend. Been sidelined for like years then come back to be a liability in multiple different stories. And now this. I would've prefered the killer be booster gold (not harley she deserves to have some good)going through mental issues over being a fake hero and having time travel tech but not being able to save anyone.
Thank you so much for posting this. I have been a Wally West fan for years. I recently suffered a stroke and I'm partially blind making reading difficult. I hate what they did this to Wally but thank you for letting me know what the heck they did. Wally and his fans deserve better than this travesty of a story.
My initial problem with this story (before the character assassination of Wally West) There are no legal ramifications of someone from the press releasing confidential psychiatric treatment of people? Even mentioning their hero identity would seem to be an invasion of privacy.
Its weird that Booster Gold managed to realize Wally's body was five days older but not Batman, Flash. Srsly, so much for the world's greatest detective
I enjoyed the story this story is about a man who's lost everything and has a mental and physical breakdown who was forgotten and then remembered and told how important he was but struggled to believe it himself because his family didn't come back weren't they important so yes he's a beloved character u couldn't do this story with some one who wasn't and yes he acted out of character but that's part of having a breakdown and so is the gulit when u snap back which again can be just as overwhelming and cause u to try and hide it which is what wally did overall great story wonderfully written
There are two types of breakdowns: Physiological and Mental The one Wally is suffering (At least from what I can tell) is a mental breakdown and one of it’s effects is that it essentially make the persons mind not work normally but if this is the case chances are Wally wouldn’t thought of such a plan even when he has worked alongside The Flash and if he did thought of it Wally would still not be sure if this is even a good idea regardless if he killed those people because that is exactly what a villain would think of and yet Tom King decides to write Wally this way because he wrote himself into a corner
ant allen The problem there is that this scenario is contrived. Wally is acting like his family is dead, which completely contradicts the entire reason he went to Sanctuary which was to find a way to locate them. And then because of a retcon he randomly explodes and accidentally kills people. And worse in order to hide this he DEFILES THE BODIES OF DEAD SUPERHEROES AND FRAMES PEOPLE, I’m sorry but the idea that a breakdown would make him act out of character is bullshit, no Wally is acting out of character because Tom King wrote him that way. And I’m sorry but this is not a good story on any level, the mystery aspect sucks, all clues are either red herrings or don’t matter, many early story implications aren’t brought up and disappear, characters are just colossal idiots and the message is executed in such an asinine way that it’s more a disservice to the idea of seeking help. The people who are seeking help gets murdered by one of the patients, they’re isolated and alone in VR rooms and there are no therapists, just a verbally abusive A.I. And this wouldn’t be an issue if A. The story actually acknowledged these faults and have the characters realize they messed up and fixed things and B. It wasn’t made b the TRINITY, the three biggest heroes thought this was the best idea, this is why DC fans want this story to be retconned out of existence and I can’t blame them.
Dan Didio gave explicit instructions to King to shit on Wally hard throughout the story. The knee to the balls from Harley I imagine was in large bold letters on the editors notes.....penned by Dan of course.
Kopaka808 I remember someone said he “didn’t get them” essentially I guess at least for Nightwing commenting on how he is not Batman nor Robin which doesn’t make any sense
This is so New 52, it hurts. Yeah no. Wally is unsympathetic in this story. The killing a bunch of people by accident doesn't even make me that mad. It's the tricking of the whole superhero community, pinning it on 2 innocent peers in a Death Note/moving pieces on a chessboard-kind of way so that he can reveal all their secrets to the public that's got me a little, tiny bit miffed. Wally assassinating himself is icing on the cake because I don't think anyone involved in this story saw the irony.
Tom King is the M. Night of comic writing. An interesting premise that draws you in, but when the twist comes you're left wanting to forget the whole thing. Because forgetting the entire thing is easier than imagining what it could have been. Word of the wise, Tom. Don't ruin perfect characters for shock value. It's never a worthwhile investment.
I really enjoyed the story as a hole, it explores sides of everyone, yes the wally the you knew and love would never do this but this wally is different, he's lost so much and given all he had, he was broken and in despair. If you just sit back and see the story for that it is, as story about sadness, pain, grief it really is good writing
Fuckin love it. Brilliant. Edit: not the story. Hated that. Wally West aint a murderer, accidental or otherwise. Love the video. Great voice actin. Great work man.
I... I... I don't know how to feel about this story at all. On one hand, I'm absolutely furious they did Wally and Roy dirty like that and ruined DC Rebirth, which I was really happy about since we got back Impulse, but on the other, damn man this shit made me cry more than I've ever cried before with some of those confessions, especially Booster's, so like yeah I'm mad and I hate the story, it's got some objectively good writing and deep emotional conflicts in it.
Tom King is a garbage writer on Heroes In Crisis and on Batman. But what pissed me off the most was Tom King wasting the beautiful artwork in both comics.
Bro I am obsessed with these long stories, my favorites are injustice 1 and 2 and the batman series, you did them so good and the voices are amazing. Also the deadpool ones are dope
This was unnecessarily convoluted....like wally went from sad, to depressed, to insane out of nowhere. Seriously he killed everyone by accident, but set up a fake crime scene framing two inncocent people then killed a alternate version of himself....like WHAT?!
I think this story could have been one of the best if they'd just cut the murder mystery out of it. Just have the tapes leak out somehow, and center the plot around the fear that if the tapes are released, the public might lose faith in their heroes when they realize they're not infallible, and the shit they've seen has messed them up. Then round it off with the heroes deciding to be open about it, and have the public react positively, realizing that everything they do for them has caused them a lot of psychological trauma but they _still_ always fight for them. But having Wally kill them due to his trauma would just re-affirms any worries people would have if the tapes came out. That whole speech Superman gives "to acknowledge those who fight are vulnerable, afraid, does that mean you should all be afraid" falls a little flat when one of their heroes literally murdered a bunch of other heroes specifically because of his trauma. Personally Id be thinking that If he could do that to his _friends_ what could he do to everyone else? The murder plot just ruined it, I think
I actually like this crossover series even though it was a fill-in. Seeing each hero/antihero interview was one my favorite parts of it. Either they made you laugh a little or down right felt sorry for the pain and stress they were going through. Especially Wally West which is understandable he been through and lost a lot and it was showing through various comics how it was affecting him I really felt his breakdown in this. I also love Harley's and Ivy's panels showing them trying to comfort each other even though Harley was trying her best to be Ivy's emotional rock. Ivy seems to always be Harley's emotional rock (even though before 52/rebirth she wasn't so BFF with benefits like she is now). Seeing them and also Bat-Girl and Harley comforting each other was really emotional I really like those panels. I do have a problem with them killing off characters again that is getting a little old makes me feel like they are trying to clean house sometimes and 5 years later they are reborn out of no where lol.
I don’t like how Wally framed Booster and Harley. Just doesn’t seem like something Wally West would do cuz it’s a bit reckless to do it for 5 whole days. Idek what he’d want to do for 5 days or why he’d wait to confess if he doesn’t have anything in particular to do.
This is just a DC laymens pov. I thought it was good. Making a hero the villian by accident. Thanks Benny for doin this. I'm a Marvel guy but I like DC also. So, anyways, good job.
The conclusion to this story line is so stupid. They could have done so much more with it, why make Wally the culprit why not bane or Gotham girl, or have a scenario where sanctuary it's self killed the heroes out of a missed placed sense of mercy, or that solitary guy from the red hood and the outlaws.
Harley is literally just a crazy person and Booster is a superhero with energy blasts and bulletproof armor and you can just look at both of them and see Booster is stronger so why is he having trouble?
After reading Heroes in Crisis, I can see why a lot of people hate it. Wally West lead an entire generation of comic book readers, so him going nuts would definably piss off a lot of people. That being said I think the main problem with H.I.C is the character assassination's. Believe it or not I don't blame Wally for killing everyone at Sanctuary, mainly because it was an accident. The stress finally got to him and his powers went out of control. No the problem was him covering his tracks and framing Booster and Harley. To me Wally should have just curled up into a ball and cried until Superman came to investigate, then explain what happen before taken into custody and getting the help he needs. Heroes in Crisis should have been about Wally dealing with his trauma and talking to an actual therapist, instead of robots. Now that is just one example of mistreated characters. Later in the story when superheroes go to sanctuary after seeing it's not bad, Hal Jordon goes there and asks that he has willpower, but what does that mean? When I read that I was like, really? Not want to talk about how you became possessed by a space bug, destroyed the Green Lantern Corps, and became a supervillain for a few years? Stuff like that is what I'm talking about and there are other examples like that as well. Now there's a lot to unpack with Heroes in Crisis and I feel that other people who know more about these characters then me can talk about it more in-depth about. I'm just saying that I can see why people hate the book so much. On a more positive side I do like how we learn about the trauma of some of the characters before they died. My favorite was Gnarrk. He's a caveman frozen and thawed out in present times and his time in sanctuary is about him missing and reflecting on his old world and comparing it to this new one and wonders if one is truly better then the other. That's really interesting, I wouldn't classify that as trauma, more like an existential crisis, it's stuff like that I really enjoyed. I have no idea if he went through something like this in the past, but if he didn't then makes then this is really interesting. Plus, even though Wally killed everyone then hid his tracks was not good, we at least see his thought process while he did so. It wasn't like a switch was flipped and he went supervillain, no it showed that all the stress and paranoia finally go to him and then he snapped, which I feel is very human. I'm not saying what he did was good or even defending his actions, I'm just saying I like that we saw him get to where he was at end of the story.
SPOILERS FOR YOUNG JUSTICE S4. This is the concept of what I think is going to happen in s5 based on the conversation Black Canary has with the rest of the team at the wedding.
Batman: we can just use the batradio Flash: I'm faster than the batradio Batman: I'm not sure that's true Meanwhile Barry running to other countries and back in a couple seconds: you sure?
wow this is extremely good you voiced it very well man this is the type of stories DC needs to put to animation and stop doing stories no one really cares for they keep taking these side stories and make them into animated movies but stories like this should be the ones being made not ones that features bat sex
Okay. First off, benny. I love you. Second, my wife recently committed a very long suicide arch. She was in multiple organ failure and was hurting and never shared it with anyone. She hurt, lonely cause I worked alot of hours, her friends didn't really talk to her too much. She had quit taking her meds to help, began drinking heavily, ignored doctors appointments. She gave up and wanted to go home. I do too. I miss my best friend. My soulmate. My everything. My wife. My valerie. This helped me. Showed that everyone hurts. We all need that time to heal. It's been almost 2months since she died and I'm no where near healed. I never will be. But, I want help so I can live on through her and try to make the life I live be hers.
Wait, what? How does that work in the first place. I thought someone else was leaking the heroes' confessions, causing Wally to go back to find this out only to make things MUCH worse by accident. If it was all Wally's doing in the end, then why would he have gone back in the first place? If Wally had gone back in time to find the one leaking the recordings, only to panic and kill everyone by mistake, then this could still make sense, but how they did it leaves no reason for Wally to travel back anyways.
Didn't you hear? He said he doesn't want to go back in time because Barry did the same mistake which messed the timeline, probably referencing Flashpoint.
I don't understand why Batman having Kryptonite on him would be offensive to anyone, especially Superman. If I were Superman I absolutely would require Batman to keep some on him just in case something goes wrong. Harley Quinn: "See Supes?! Batman Has Kryptonite on him!" Supes:"Yeah? And?" HQ: "Doesn't that upset you?" Supes:"Not really." HQ: " . _ . "
Everyone talking about wally and i do agree, but they also made barry and iris really unlikeable. Along with harley and batgirl and ivy. Outside of wally the flash family just seemed to have it out for batman with very flimsy justification, barry with his "another robin" dagger, giving batman full justification to bring up wally, then barry lashed out at Bruce even though he started the altercation. And i feel like the writers hate batman the way they made everyone treat him.
If you would like to see the truly unfettered rage of a DC fan that properly defines how much this event, or whatever you may call it, sucks, I’d highly recommend looking it up on Linkara’s Atop the Fourth Wall. Seriously, he expresses my own outrageous fury this story presented better than I ever could. What’s more, you’d at least manage to get a laugh. At least DC has recently retconned this. Admittedly, the damage is still done, but it more than I can say for Marvel and One More Day.
@@littlebitsofterror5788 that's the theory, but it's never been confirmed in the comics. At any rate, the name "Jai" usually rhymes with "tie" or "buy", especially if it's of east-Asian origin.
I don't like how they killed all these characters and then not bring them back like Arsenal who I thought would be brought back after the storyline after which will probably happen in a month or something but still I thought they wasted a perfectly great premise for a marmite story
I really liked this story. A lot of people are saying they ruined Wally, but I felt it was very interesting to see him suffering because of the changes that made DC Rebirth. I'm a fan!
Smallville has been confirmed to be crossing over with the CWverse shows for the Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover. This is starting to feel like a hollow fanservice cash grab with no real thought behind it. Of course that's how the crossovers have been lately. No real plot just fanservice. Guggenheim even said it himself that the crossovers all about the fans. Implying they are just for "fun" with no real thought or meaning behind them. Probably why they end up so campy and cheesy. Black Lightning's inclusion is probably the biggest proof of this given how much of a mismatch the show is with the other shows given it's tone and willingness to stay grounded and personal and intimate and go places the other CWverse shows aren't willing to go. It's almost like Law and Order crossing over with Barney and Friends. Or the MCU crossing over with the Netflix shows. But people can't see beyond the fanservice and shiny suits and action to realize that certain things don't mesh well together.
Dude, I see where you’re coming from, but Black Lightning and Smallville being in the crossover isn’t pure fan service. Its a crossover event about the multiverse of this universe (DC), so theyre trying to include as much of this mass multiverse as they can to make it as perfect and somewhat comic accurate as possible. Yes, of course that part is to please the fans, whos views and clicks give them their pay grade, so why would they not want to be satisfied? I’m not trying to argue or hell even begin a debate, but I just wanna show a different perspective to your point.
@@Chris-xc1hm Yeah but of all the shows Black Lightning takes place in a very serious and grounded relatable universe where problems actually exist. They focus on things like that and in the community. It's got more real life than the other shows and the science fictional stuff just compliments that stuff. So basically it's too realistic for the crossover and just throwing it in there will disrupt the tone and narrative that it needs to adhere to.
