I ended up pulling the trigger and buying myself an HHKB and I have to save, it is by far my favourite keyboard. Your gripes with it were all similar to mine when I first got it, since I grew up using a UK ISO layout over the ANSI, however since I've been using it for a few weeks now I've grown used to it and I actually struggle using my other keyboards now. From a personally standpoint I'd have to say I think it was well worth it and I would like to thank you for your review, it was partially the reason I ended up buying it. Next for me is to pick up something with blue alps so I can see what all the hype is about.
I personally feel that I could go back to my HHKB Lite2 if I had to, at least if it still worked. Some rubber domes are very, very high quality, especially those ones.
The problem is that it also has the Japanese locations for many symbols which are quite different than the locations most people in the west are used to, e.g. double-quote over the 2, plus over the semicolon, parens shifted over one key etc. [I think the Japanese locations for these keys has a long historical basis, many keyboards in the 70s and 80s had similar layouts, even the ASR33 was similar... but it's a bit unusual (outside of Japan) these days...]
@@MilesBader That doesn't matter since those locations are determined by the computer, not the keyboard. It's only the keycaps that would have the wrong legends on them, and they could aswell be blank so. Only thing you'd notice is the non-split left shift and one unit wide Backspace.
The HHKB PRO2 is THE BEST keyboard I've ever used. And you have access to all kinds of special symbols immediately with certain key combinations. Nothing compares to the famous HHKB/Topre THOCK.
I realize this is now over a year old but... I'd love to see you review a Topre Clone Board which are a little more affordable, I've heard of a few Chinese/Korean companies which make them, and I can appreciate it'd be hard to get your hands on any of them. However if you do manage to pull in one of these I've seen some of decent boards may include: Plum 84 Royal Kludge RC930 ABKO Hacker K945 Hansung CHL8 HappyTypist 50g I've heard the ABKO in particular may has good build quality but can't confirm myself! In anyway, really enjoying the content and find your videos really informative and entertaining!
I have an opinion about the layout: as VIM user i think the UNIX layout (the one used in the HHKB) is meant more for touchtyping and VIM or Emacs users, because we tend to use a lot the control key, and like in the XT layout it's more comfortable than the standard layout. Also the backspace is is in a position that is simpler to reach for the pinky
hey i recently bought a hhkb2 too. but i found the layout switches bit confusing. i cant really tell that what is changing. i also use vim as a main text editor. can you explain little bit?
@@Maraldyn For the meaning of the switches, check the rear of the keyboard. For Vi the position of the esc key is convenient for the pinky, since switching modes is a common operation. Lately I've been using Emacs a lot, and the position of CTRL, Meta, and esc is really convenient, since that this editor heavily relies on modifier keys. So, there is less strain on the hand
Topre 86U user here. Just the sound justifies a lot of the price. I also have a black IBM Model M with trackpoint and a regular Model M from 1988 and surely the last one has the edge in terms of feel for me. BUT, after my colleagues threatened me to throw it away i had to go the Topre route because it is the only tactile keyboard that is widely accepted in a shared office area. I wouldn't mind getting a nice blue Alps but in Germany these things are much rarer than gold nuggets.
The sound and description of the BTC dome with slider key switches reminds me of my HHKB Lite2, which has a very similar sound and feel. I have to agree with the 85% as good statistic, because that is how I felt upgrading from my HHKB Lite2 to my HHKB Pro2. The biggest advantage of the Pro2 is probably the detachable cable more than the key switches themselves, as a broken cable is what caused my HHKB Lite2 to fail. Testing on my HHKB Pro2, I can confirm that your audio sample represent the sound of typing on this pretty well.
That control key placement makes a lot of sense when you consider the HHKB's linage and main target market that they still target to this day and that's Linux and UNIX users that spend a lot of time in a terminal or program as I see a lot of both with them.
Yeah, I have a couple HHKB "lite" models I bought in the early 2000's, I like the minimalism and the control key placement. (Seriously, who even needs caps lock?)
The HHKB is wonderful for typing in LaTex, allowing you to have immediate access to numerous calculus symbols and foreign language special characters with just the right combination.
I wonder if I would like those more, because although I love my HHKB Pro2, I do actually miss the very snappy and tactile switches on my HHKB Lite2 a bit, despite them being rubber domes.
I'd say the high actuation point is what makes topre rubberdomes so good. BTC does not have this does it, or any other cheap rubberdomes. That justifies the cost, as true typists rely heavily on the ability to type lightly and not bottoming out on every single stroke on a cheap rubberdome. It's basically a hybrid of mechanical and rubberdome, best of both worlds. And no mechanical switch comes close to the smoothness topre has to offer, due to the lack of metal leafs and short sliders.
+LT “John” YV Well I'm no true typist, so I can't say anything for sure on that first point, but the second is just complete bollocks :p . There are many switch types without metal leaves or contact-based mechanisms.
Are you going to do the Leopold FC660M (it''s also a Topre board, small, and with "normal" bottom row. ;) I think it mends your issues with this board.
I have both the white and black version (printed) and I have to say I love the white version but only with the additional keycap set manufactured by PFU. Essentially it includes 4 keycaps and a key puller. One printed red escape key, one blue printed shift key. In additional it includes a non printed version of both keys in the same color. When contacted with the white keycaps there is something oddly attractive about the board. Additionally the two non-printed color keys go well with the not only the non printed hhkb2 but also the black printed version.
4:36: Really? I'm pretty sure these aspects of the layout are half of the entire point. 90% of the reason I bought this keyboard in the first place was ctrl in place of caps lock, which is very ergonomic for Linux terminal use. I also love the delete key closer to enter as it makes it very easy to reach. Why would you want caps lock where ctrl is? I use ctrl all the time, but I hardly ever use caps lock. You're complaining about aspects which at least for me, are some of the main reasons to choose the keyboard in the first place.
I've used topre keyboards before and I think they are perfectly fine(better IMO than a normal rubber dome keyboard, but I like other mechanical keyswitches more). Also, I think an interesting thing about the HHKB is that it has so few keys, I am a programmer, and I use a full size keyboard that has macro keys on the left side. I like having a numpad and macro keys(have them set to computer things, like one doing select all (ctrl+a), task manager, exit application(alt+f4), one to open a text editor, ).
Quick FYI, if you remove the spring from the spacebar's stem, it feels alot more tactile and closer to the other keys on the board. This spring really makes the spacebar feel linear :D
to be honest my dream layouy would be 40% with a numpad on the right. Don't need 2 number clusters. but since this is so rare (basically have to get a 40% and then a numpad) for now I am sticking to 60%
I found a brand new btc 5100c for 20 bucks on ebay and replaced my hhkb with it, I never would have guessed there would be stiffer domes that would have made my hhkb feel better to type on, maybe going to have try that.. Spot on review, thanks for the btc love, I know its not the nicest keyboard but I just love mine and it has that pretty cool retro look from when I was a kid.
Well Thomas made a video not too long ago replacing the Topre rubber domes with redux domes. He said it's as tactile as his BTCs so you might want to give that a try. That is if you're interested in spending more money on an already expensive design.
He kind only suggests the OPTION to use the Caps the way it is right now, if the person likes it, but still been able to change for the classical layout. The removal of the key only eliminates the option. There's no need to argue what is the best layout when u can choose. But of course, the key removal makes it pretty so people dont' complain.
No, you are nuts. The Control key belongs on the bottom left. Adding a function key to enable caps is a good idea though, but don't put control in that spot... it is a weird position for a modifier key.
completely agree. Being able to very easily delete words while typing makes capslock in the middle row 100% worth it. Not to mention being able to use it as a conventional push to talk key for gaming makes it even more practical. The worst part about it is accidentally turning on capslock on school computers.
So I got a month to try the HHKB and the layout for me was pretty easy to get used to. My biggest issue with it was the arrow key layout. Couldn't get used to it. The switches are interesting. I love my tactile switches. I've been using lubed cherry browns and zealios almost exclusively for the last 5 years. The Topre switches were an interesting change. I really like them.
I’ve always shyed away from Topre, but the HHKB really makes me want to try it. I love the tiny form factor and already have a 60% board with Browns that has a similar arrow key layout.
I've switched the Caps Lock and Control on all my keyboards to how this keyboard layout is. Anyone that says Caps Lock should not be tucked away at the bottom is just plain wrong. How often do you use the Caps Lock compared to Control?
Bear in mind that that Packard Bell would have been worth a lot more when it was new, not to mention that the original Model M's sold upwards of $500 (adjusted for inflation), which makes Topre's seem affordable by comparison. Our legacy keyboards are only cheap because they are old and used, not because they represent a value proposition.
That's true of course, a very valid point. However, it's not indicative of the current market anymore. Back then, computers cost a small fortune, and even a rubber dome keyboard wasn't cheap - almost the same price as a mechanical. Nowadays a crappy keyboard could be had for pennies. The HHKB is much more expensive than anything else on the market - including other mechanicals, and with just 60-odd keys and none of the build quality of a Model M, I just don't see where the money is going.
Chyrosran22 Topre switches are expensive, which in turn makes the keyboards expensive. The CM Novatouch and this HHKB are around £150, Topre's own Realforce series are approaching £200. Unicomps would probably be within the same price bracket if their build quality was the same as the IBM Model M's.
You were obviously bias in your review against the smaller form factor--without taking into account that is the entire purpose of this keyboard. It's targeted to people who want this form factor. Are you saying the build quality is poor? I have heard nothing but good things about it.
Stock keyboards have always been cheap in comparison with the computer with which they shipped. Even in the 60s, when keyboards (converter typewriters) easily ran $1000 (nominal) or more, they were cheap in comparison with the computers and terminals that were the main purchase, several million being quite typical. It's only now that computers have become cheap while the HHKB retains a 60s price tag that makes it peculiar.
y11971alex This is a very valid and true point. I try to take cost into account into my videos, but becuase most of my boards are very old and no longer available, this is a vague point.
The ideal layout you have described is unfortunately not very nice for touch-typing. Short left shift + short enter means more work for both of your pinkies. I do agree that they could have included the keys in bottom row corners. However, while using your keyboard professionally those keys are very hard to use anyway.
@@josboersema1352 Yeah but the Lite doesn't use Topre, it's just a membrane keyboard so of course it's gonna feel different from the one Chyros reviewed
me: sure i'll give topre ago. Keyboard store: that will be 250 pounds with shipping please. me: nope nope nope nope..................................................nope.
Realforce 87U is smoother, quieter, and slightly less expensive, while having TKL layout and several key weight options. The 45g in the HHKB feels a bit heavier than the 87U 45g. The HHKB is very transportable though, being so very light, small, and with a detachable cable.
1:35 - "Bizarrely, although it can handle my phone just fine, it says that it doesn't have enough power for my dissolved USB stick" The phone probably is charging at a lower rate since the port can't provide 500mA. It's a bit surprising about the flash drive - I don't know how much power flash drives typically take but probably the host won't allow devices on that port that need more than 200mA. (Of 500mA from the host, the keyboard probably takes 100mA, and the keyboard's internal hub probably takes 100mA, and each of the two downstream ports is allocated a minimum of 100mA, so a device plugged into one of those ports can probably only take the 100mA allocated to the port plus the 100mA that's extra)
I think you missed the point of the layout, and by extension, the point of the keyboard. All your suggestions were to just change it to ISO, in which case you can just get an ISO Realforce. The point of the HHKB layout is to improve on more traditional layouts by having left shift, enter and backspace all closer to the home row, without losing backslash I'm so in love with the layout that I make my customs of all sizes (75%, 1800, 96) the same, it's a serious improvement once you get used to it
"Improvement" is a highly relative term, especially with regards to keyboard layouts. The extreme vast majority to people don't want to change this. This effect - a high change barrier in exchange for perceived benefits - was actually named after keyboard layouts: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switching_barriers#QWERTY_example In my case, it's more than obvious that I'd try to change it to ISO - none of the supposed benefits of the HHKB layout apply to me, after all ;) .
Man you are a keyboard reviewing God. What are you thoughts on the variable weight torpe keyboards? Are they worth the money I have seen ones for under 70 bucks out in Japan.
+Rafael Azevedo Thanks so much! :) I haven't tried the variable force ones, but from what I've seen of the weight layout it wouldn't work better for me. Most keys are the same weight or even lighter, which it doesn't need, and the spacebar isn't heavier either. Topre is pretty great, I'd definitely recommend it if you can get it for a reasonable price :) .
+Rafael Azevedo variable weights include 30g 45g and 55g on the esc key, the 30g keys can feel mushy and "linear" compared to the 45g, this is fine if you are a typist but if you like to play games the uniform weight would be a better option due to the A key being 30g and the WSD 45g which may feel odd. I am a student so I type and game and the uniform seems better.
Saying that a torpre board is the worlds best and most expensive rubber dome board is.. pretty damn accurate :D They feel very much different than any actual mechanical keys, not in a bad way tho. I still like my Novatouch and use it most often as my daily board, but I do switch is out from time to time for a cherry or alps board, just to get that mech feel. Also you can get topre boards in a number of different layouts: 60% like the HHKB, modified 60% like the fc660c, TKL like the Novatouch and full like the Realforce 104 boards for example. On a side note, you can also get a bunch of topre clone boards now, like the Royal Kludge RC930-87, which sells for about 100$, give or take. Cheers!
+darkholyPL Oh Topre is great, I really like using it, no question about that. If you want tactile, that is non-clicky non-linear switches, this is definitely kind of what comes to mind, at least for me. I'd actually really like to try out a RealForce 104, I think they'd agree with me very well :) . No money for it though xD .
I actually quite like the clacking sound of the keys on that keyboard. Have you ever used any of the Apple USB keyboards that they've been making since around 2007 or so? I wonder what you'd think of the keyboards on the new MacBook laptop computers.
I've tried most Apple keyboards, from M0110A to AEKII and then the AppleDesign, Apple Aluminium keyboards and that awful thing made out of translucent plastic, but I'm not sure which one you're referring to =o .
I'm referring to the USB keyboard they currently make, it has flat chicklet styled keys, the keyboard is very flat and doesn't have any flip out feet and has the USB ports on either end. I have one because I'm an iMac user and I'm typing on it now, I can't read the model number or part number on the bottom of my keyboard because of my poor eyesight, the text is tiny and even with my magnifier I can't read it. The keys don't have very much travel on them, but I actually really like typing on this keyboard, it's nice and quiet and I can type pretty accurately and quickly on it, and I'm generally not a very accurate or quick typist.
Lachlant1984 Yeah, I've tried them, some people at work have them. They're kind of a love/hate thing. I don't like them personally, the short travel quickly starts to hurt my fingertips.
I don't have that problem and I've been using one of these things since late 2010, you probably need to try typing with a light touch rather than really thumping the keys hard. The short travel does take some getting used to, but I'm pretty used to it now I guess. By the way, I think here in Australia we use the US English keyboard layout, I could be wrong, the / key isn't to the left of the letter Z, it's the the immediate left of the right shift key, and we don't have that back to front and upside down Enter key either as far as I know. I think it's the US English keyboard layout, I could be wrong though, I don't know too much about keyboard layouts. I don't know what type of switches the Apple keyboards have, I presume they're rubber dome switches.
Lachlant1984 They're scissor-switch rubber domes, yes. Apple stopped making mechanical keyboards way back in the 90s; it's generally agreed that Apple stopped making great keyboards after the AEK.
You had me at "cost a fucking fortune." lol Nice comprehensive review! (Typing this from Topre RealForce 87u 45g) :D Did you have any difficulties adjusting to Happy Hacking Pro 2's keyboard layout? I am considering picking one up for work.. :)
+Kevin Chong Thanks :) . Yeah, it took me a while, and frankly I'm still not sold. I just prefer fullsize layouts, I don't see the advantage of leaving things out.
+Chyrosran22 I see. If you want to grab HHKB Pro 2 for cheap, make sure to keep your eyes on Amazon. 3rd Party Seller last month around mid April sold HHKB Pro 2 for $100 USD plus shipping (not sure if it was actually honored), so I'm gonna do the same. For $100, I'd just throw my money at Amazon lol
No the logo is not the price tag, since all Topre boards are in the same price range. I am lucky to own and use 12h/day a realforce 55g and I love that board. I use it for 2 years now and there is something to it, it just feels right. I might prefer cherry mx red because they are even lighter, but the default topre keycaps are good. I got my Realforce half price so I think I am lucky. If that board breaks on me, would I replace it with the same one? Yeah, even at full price if I have to. You don't change your daily driver that easily...
Hmm ok, but you are reviewing a board that is meant for people who type with 10 fingers (hence the size of the board, only the keys you can reach), and which is mostly targeted to Unix with the Control in the right position, none of which seems to match your use. Since this board is not a numpad but leaves room on the desk for it, maybe it is fairer to review it with a separate numpad on the table. I cannot imagine someone wants to page through receits with one hand, and then needs to press a modifier to reach a numpad layout. It is not a mouse either, but can you fault it for not being a good mouse. If you want arrow keys, it has a version with them so you cannot fault it for that either. If these topre switches are so expensive to make and a little better, the money is perhaps going toward that rather than purely branding. Maybe we cannot settle this dispute here, and we need to take this to the street ;-P. After up to 20 years on this thing, it is still a great keyboard and if the OS did not stop recognizing it somehow on the ps2 port, I would be on it for another 20 (all HHKBs now use USB). That does not mean other boards today are bad though (I will be buying something else now). That leaves price, which indeed is high. Your remarks about caps-lock seem strange. We do not need that key, we need to be free from it because it only gets accidentally pressed.
9:23 - does any new rubber dome keyboard (and in rubber dome keyboard price range) are made and feels like this? In late 90' I bought with my last money cheapo no-name rubber dome keyboard that feels smooth and snappy (something between mx red and mx blacks). Why they don't make rubber dome keyboards like that today?
easy fix, get two USB splitters, allows me to use the USB ports with everything with no power issues on my Mac, only problem is that the ones I have sometimes get hot
It's weird, they are bit overpriced, but they just click (ugh) with some people once they experience the oneness with cup rubber. I was a total alps snob, then got a RF 55g as part swap and that was that... can't explain - I feel like a heroin addict trying to defend my habit; it costs me too much money - but it feels so good...
expensive? not if you live in romania for instance, where you can't get a packard bell from US on ebay without a total of up to 120-150$, which is not far from the price of an HHKB, so the maths incline towards an HHKB.
I don't get the 60% layout at all. I use numpad extensively as well as the arrow keys and function keys. Yes, they may look cool, but it's not worth the effort to just enjoy the look as using it is just painful for me.
Capacitive buckling springs are far better then the keytronic rubber done feel of topre switches. It also boggles the mind that a 60% layout keyboard like the HHKB is so much more expensive then a full 104 or 101 key keyboard.
It's the last point especially that annoys me most of all. I think it's a fairly obvious ripoff, they only get away with it because they're the only ones doing it.
Yes, but what was the cost of capacitive buckling springs then? A modern capacitive buckling spring board is a few hundred dollars these days... Any decent mechanical keyboard today is priced well over 100dlloars and if you include additional cost of topre switch and higher finish quality the price does not seem that overblown
Oh, yesterday saw that packard bell keyboard on a printer repair store. I dont know how much it did cost, but I glad I didn't pick up anyways. BTW, I came to say this: Aliexpress has a Unix layout/HHKB keyboard clone made with Cherry MX/Cherry clones, anodized aluminum case, backligth for 95 dollars with gaterons. I agree that HHKB and Topre in general are way overpriced.
my favorite overall board for typing and gaming. Honestly I learend to play CS on a high quality rubber dome and learned to type on a model m but this is the best of both worlds. Love the size. I have the black with Blank keycaps.. Cause I'm a gangsta.
Why do they remove the left control key completely. It would be such a better keyboard if they have just swapped them or allowed you to program it. Now there is just an empty space where you could have a perfectly functional key.
You have to remember that they didn't "remove" anything, the HHKB (which dates from the mid-90s) is essentially a continuation of a much, much, older keyboard tradition where the control key was next to the 'a' key, and has long been favored by unix and other programming communities. This keyboard was aimed at them. [The "two control keys on the bottom" layout is actually newer.]
Meh my point still stands. They're adopting an archaic layout that is functionally missing a key compared to modern keyboards. Swap the keys all you want but removing one is a big no in my eyes. There is no advantage to this and that reason alone is why the Leopold FC660C will always be the superior keyboard to me. It even has hardware dipswitches on the back for this exact purpose (swapping the control and caps lock)
So you did get around to getting topre for a review :) I've heard people who own these say they're good for typists, they help you type faster and make less mistakes. Did you notice any of that? Or are they just trying to justify the absurd cost?
+Celso Soares Probably a bit of both ;) . I notice that some boards make me type faster than others for sure, although the difference isn't gargantuan or anything. The Topre one is one of the faster ones, though not the fastest one I've tried so far.
I have a Topre Realforce 104 in my pantheon of keyboards - I often use it on-site at client sites (it's quieter than Cherry for instance). I'm curious to know if anyone has tried the HHKB Topre keyboards and the Realforce one - which is supposed to have the same switching system; is it the same key feel and sound? Mine is a uniform 45g layout and configuration with the ever-irritating black lettering on black keycaps. The space bar does develop shine which was disappointing.
actually this does not have NKRO! it only has 6 key roll over as per the spec on it's page on elite keyboards, which is honestly quite disappointing as I play rhythm games and NKRO is a must have ;_;
It is limited by the USB interface, however the mechanism itself has inherent NKRO. Some keyboards emulate NKRO over USB by making the keyboard appear as several keyboards and sending the scancodes over that, although this can sometimes cause compatibility issues.
It's one of the downsides of USB. Although PS/2 is considered a legacy port by many, it's actually superior in several ways - USB is just more convenient.
After doing a bit more research (and actually getting one) I've found that the BTC 5130 isn't actually a rubber dome keyboard, it's foam and foil. Are you certain the keyboard you show off in the review isn't another 5100 series Packard Bell?
I can't check because I'm away from home atm, but I noted the same model number in my dome with slider megareview. Tbh BTC were a bit weird with their numbers anyway.
They're really not dome switches in that they have internal springs, so should last much longer. That keyboard looks like a nightmare though. I really do like the sound, but it's a lot of money to commit for a keyboard without trying one. I just revived an old Apple wireless keyboard from my basement. It has a 104-style layout, and looks great, but my god are the keys mushy, and I've apparently lost the habit of pressing all the way to the bottom. (There's an old XT keyboard down there someplace too.) Apple is a bit like a dog breeder. They've simplified their keyboards and mice to the point where the current versions are nearly useless for production work. I don't know of any heavy user that hasn't had to buy 3rd party peripherals.
Of course they're dome switches, they have domes in them :p . The internal spring is not for return for or for any resistive force at all, in fact it's extremely light and wouldn't be able to bear the weight even of just the keycap. The spring is the variable capacitive element in the switch. Also, springs don't make a difference in lifetime of a switch, nor is that their purpose.
Good to know. I've watched dozens of vids now, but there are sizeable gaps. Getting tired of all the information and choice, frankly. I *think* I'm looking for Cherry MX browns with double-shot PBT caps, in a 104 layout, preferably with white LED backlight, but it'll be a while before I can justify buying one. Also considering Matias Quick Click switches.
I finally got a chance to try out some keyboards, and I like the blues. The browns weren't as tactile as I'd been lead to believe, though I wonder if that might change over time. The Matias look interesting, and are made locally.
One thing to note: double-shot PBT keycaps are almost impossible to find (PBT shrinks when it cools), so you're proabably looking for dye-sub PBT or double shot ABS...
+Chyrosran22 Me either. I am going to soon try Topre with a HHKB US Tour. Also I agree with some SKCM Alps feeling like Topre (I imagine) my SGI swapped w/ grey plate SKCM Orange is quite thocky actually.
Not at all. Topre are a tactile switch that come in various weightings and have very soft bottom-out. Gateron reds are a linear switch available in one very light weighting and the bottom-out is plastic on plastic and a good deal louder.
It can handle your phone but not you flash memory because the power nedeed for the phone is provided by the phone's battery. The flash memory has no source of power.
Yeah...these Topres seem fine keyboards but i think all the zealous defenders have buyer's remorse and therefore need to convince themselves (and all of us) that they're good value. They're definitely not. Especially when someone like you can buy great mechanical boards at you recycling center for £0,50; why on earth buy a keyboard that costs, literally, 300x as much?
The real force 55g boards are a bit more reasonably priced by contrast IMO. That said even though I love Topre and even with loads of Cherry MX boards I own and have reviewed I prefer my Topre real force...I also know I can admit without hesitation it's definitely over priced.
Yeah, cheeky koala bear, the most zealos of the bunch pull the Apple excuse of superior built quality - dysub PBT etc. - which ostensibly makes them just a little more expensive than highend Cherry MX boards but even if that was true, what does it matter? It is a premium noneseless.
He said that the original keycaps were black on black, making them look blank. Also, I think the colors match well regardless. My Unicomp Model M has gray keycaps with a black case and I think it looks nice.
That layout looks like one of the most infuriating things in the world. I wouldn't want to use it based on that alone, no matter how nice the keys themselves felt. D:
You get used to it really fast, and it's actually really intuitive. The function layer is really fast to use, and the backspace being one row below is faster when I make mistakes. Typed on the HHKB Pro 2
I'm not sure effective the backspace thing would be to me, since I use UK layout boards which already have the backspace right above the enter key, but I can see that being an improvement over the US type layouts. Looking at that function layer again though, that seems to be all things a more normal board has without functions? It's just my preference, but I don't really like having a function key at all. ...The backspace isn't pressed via this function + delete though is it...?
I have the delete key as backspace by enabling dip switch 3 so I don't need to press function and I haven't really noticed losing the dedicated keys. All the keys on the function layer save for Delete, arrow keys and the F keys aren't often used, and all those common keys are the easiest to access in the function layer.
That's fair enough I guess, though I'm pretty sure it'd still not be for me. I get annoyed at laptops that tuck page up and down away under the function layer xD
Couldn't agree any more with the conclusion. Topre keyboards are absolutely horribly overpriced, especially considering what they are. I wouldn't recommend buying one to anyone I know or will ever know until the price goes down significantly.
+Crazy Canadian They are great boards and like you said they are overpriced, maybe if more companies produced them, the price would go down. Also "considering what they are", what the hell does that mean? If you mean they are rubber domes remember there is nothing inherently wrong with rubber domes, also change your profile picture, it comes off as very snobby and yes I go on the sub.
RetardedAsianGuy Well, considering what they are, the rubber domes will probably wear out faster than a fully mechanical switch, and they're also almost certainly less expensive to manufacture than, say, cherry MX switches (hence the overpriced point).
So this is the topre switches.hmm,i'm not that impress,i think i will stick with my cherry mx black keyboard.(also the price of these things are wayy too steep )Ohh and btw i actually have a keyboard like the one you showcased as a comparison to the topre one.My uncles friend gave it to him a year ago.And yes they are dirt cheap,you can find them for around 15 to 25 bucks.
+Heseth I have to say in my opinion Topre is infinitely better than MX Black. Topre is a very nice switch to be honest, it's just that such a tiny, light board like this shouldn't cost anywhere near this much xD . The BTC should be readily available for free just lying around btw, $15-25 is very expensive for one.
Well,i looked around,and the Topre switches keyboards are quite expensive around here,especially the Nova switches(which are topre but with a cherry stem on it)those bloody things cost 2 to almost 3 times more than a standard mechanical keyboard.I paid 70 bucks for my Durandal G1N,and i ;m seeing the prices for these things ranging from 150$ to 200$.Wayy to expensive in my opinion.As for that BTC keyboard i have,I'lll try to clean it tommorow,i kinda feel sorry for the thing.(its full of dust under the keycaps and yellow with some wierd redish stuff on it)
+Heseth The Novatouch is a keyboard developed from very specific demand. Nothing else on the market like that exists, so the controlling price is monopolised. I'd like to give one a go sometime but I definitely can't afford one.
So in other words we need someone la Gateron(who were able to make Cherry MX clones that don't have the scratchy feeling of the originals)around here,for the prices of these things to go down.
