After completing my master's degree in communication part-time, I wanted to continue my research trajectory at the PhD level. My career forced me to think otherwise because at the time I was starting to sit in board-level strategic meetings as a member of the company's senior mgmt. I was considering doing another master's degree (MBA) but my supervisor pointed out that there was such a thing as a professional doctorate in business administration (DBA) and my 27-year career in the field was more than enough to prepare me for it, especially since that I already knew how to conduct research, write a thesis and publish my work. Perfect for me, I love the structured format and it has been very useful in my work as dept director!
Thanks so much for the detailed explanations on this somewhat fuzzy issue! From the hiring end, things continue to get more complicated for us and we must now pay closer attention to each candidate’s research profile (which CAN be challenging, especially when we are required by the university to hire candidates from certain demographic groups-who tend not to have established research agendas). Previously, at least in the U.S., most institutions offering professional or industrial doctorates used to have their own designations-like ScD, DEng, EdD, PsyD, DPH, JSD, DFA, etc. But many institutions have consolidated them in the last 20 years or so and are now offering PhDs instead…and/or give doctoral candidates options to pick from different routes (e.g., dissertation vs. project vs. comprehensive paper options). This has caused the PhD market to be saturated with individuals who may not have training in original research. Sure, there have always been PhD programs with little emphasis on research, but those were typically limited to lower-tier programs. These days, even major R1s-like Michigan State and NYU-appear to be offering PhD options for doctoral programs that are strictly professional/industrial.
Excellent video. Thank you for the info. I've wanted to earn my PhD since I was eight years old. After working through my MA, though, I've been very disappointed with academia and its bureaucratic system.
I had a friend that did a PhD in collaboration with an oil company in Spain. It worked out very well. In most cases though I would say a PhD is the most overkill way to secure medium to upper-medium income. Still though, it's a very special kind of experience, and why not :)
@@jenicemckenzie7164I was told the difference is the PhD candidate uses original research whereas the Ed D can use existing research data. The other students in my classes are a mix of Ed D and PhD. Therefore, much of the coursework is the same. Full disclosure, I am in my 11th of 15 classes and have not started my dissertation.
It would be great to include the Creative Practice research as a novelty. I feel it still falls under the "tradition PhD" model, but it is different enough that most "traditional" doctors hace travel understanding it. I am doing mine under this model in RMIT in Melbourne and has been working journey of discovery, evangelising, educating myself and others about what this "new" monster is about.
I really do like this channel. However, I find that most PhD youtubers come from the natural sciences and so they have very little to say about PhDs in the social sciences, and have nothing to say about things like the artefact + exegesis model, creative practice research or the humanities broadly.
In the US and Canada there is considerable overlap between the "traditional Ph.D. and the professional Ph.D. in that most Ph.D. programs include a year or two of advanced courses before the student takes the candidacy exam and then gets going on writing their research proposal defending that proposal and then finally starting research. There is of course, the pure professional doctorate. In addition to the sorts of degrees you mentioned there are combined programs such as MD/Ph.D. programs that include a year or two of research after completing the professional degree. Combined university/industry programs have been around for a while. I was an examiner on a professional Ph.D. that was a collaboration between chemical engineering and the paper industry over 30 years ago. That student split his time between the university and the industrial lab/plant. That sort of program has been around in engineering for quite a while. Of course you could argue that all engineering Ph.D.s are professional degrees.
In Africa, especially Southern Africa p, there is a new PHD known as DTec, Doctor of Technology, instead of philosophy. Normally done by those who do degrees e.g Bachelor of technology in construction management, masters of technology in construction management and then Doctor of technology in construction management. These degrees focus more on industry then theory.
My doctoral program in geology was more akin to the third type of PhD. I conducted research for the state geological survey in conjunction with a state agency involved in nuclear engineering and radioactive waste disposal.. I was employed full time for most of my program. It took me three years to complete the detailed field investigations and another year to complete the data analysis and organize material for the dissertation. There was also the preliminary coursework. From beginning to end, I committed about six years to coursework, research, and writing. It was an intense program, to be sure; as I was away from home for weeks at a time during the three years of field work; but my research was well-funded, and I enjoyed three good years of intense fieldwork in the high deserts and mountains of Trans-Pecos Texas. My wife did not throw me out of the house as a result of my extended absences!
I’m doing a professional PhD in management and really enjoying it. The program requires at least ten years of experience but I would say most of the students are in their 40s (I’m in my 50s). The most interesting thing about doing a PhD after working so many years is that a lot of the intuition I developed as a business professional can be linked back to some research done. It’s academic meets real world in the most amazing way!
There was a PharmD student working as an intern in my office as part of her program training, and I can already see her as "highly employable" after her 4 months with us. She is in her early 20s, not even graduated. I felt like many PhD are just missing that type of 4-6 month exposure industry opportunity and will become greatly valued by companies, i.e. the "Future PhD" model (partnering with industry PhD). I also have met a few Professional PhD from big tech/pharma companies and I really envied their salary as working PhD students and promotion prospects within the company once graduated! Great topic, Andy!
The Physician Assistant concept is really cool. And im planning this as part of my MAsters and Doctor of Health Sciences (DHCs) where you do Rotations and learn hands on...
The idea of a professional PhD appeals to me greatly; I have the 4yr Psych degree and a Master of Counselling, working in Out of Home Care and Disabilities, Corrections/JJ for almost a decade. Direct interest in Developmental Psych. Maybe thats what I could look into. However the whole PhD space in Psychology is a bit of a mess, I may have to do the Ma Clinical Psych for the first 2years and then do the other 2 (2.5 at some Unis) of the PhD.
@@todddunn945 Id love to, but Ive recently moved to Country NSW to look after my parents & there is *nothing* out here, nearest is UNE Armidale & Im considering Ma & registration through them. However, few places & most unis dont value experience, just marks for entry & its been a while
The third type of 'PhD' usually isn't called as a 'PhD', but a professional doctorate degree that could be designated as DBA, PsyD, DPharm, EdD, etc in which it has a much bigger component of specialized coursework plus a smaller component of research work almost equivalent to a Master's thesis, and requirement for publication in order to graduate is not always necessary. Also, unlike conventional research degree PhD, professional doctorates usually charge much higher tuition fee and guaranteed funding/scholarship is rare.
From your own perspective, how does a Professional Doctorate compare to a traditional PhD in terms of current market value or job opportunities? Is it currently rewarding and something you will advise someone to embark upon?
I have a DPT doctorate of physical therapy It is deffirent than phd Dpt is clinical degree that teach you how to work as a physiotherapists as optimal as possible They do not focus on research but they focus on how you read research and apply it on your Feild practically You can use the dpt as an equivalent to master or ( more than equilivant) and you can pursue phd after it The jop opportunities are varying For example, in usa DPT is a required to practice . In my country, you will get the tilte and the reputation nothing more . No more opportunity for you in government jops, also universities will not hire you because they do not offer this program and they only recognise master and phds. Also the small companies will not hire you because you are over qualifid. And it is hard to get into a phd program because you did not do a research thesis.( exept usa ) But it is great for people who already have a private business and they are looking to have the dr tilte and more knowledge . If you are a third world citizen, i advise you to go to phd not professional doctorates. If you are a first world citizen, look at people who have those degrees and if it help them or not.
I am planning to do a Doctor of Heath Sciences (DHSc) whats awesome is it gives you lots of flexibility to individually learn your field. And most are online. The pitfall is the conversation with someone off the street "Ohh you are a doctor? Yeah a doctor of Nursing Practice, Blank Face, So a PhD? Well umm, uhh I give up, Yeah a Doctor of Nursing PhD " lol. I understand the need for the differences but it just confuses the general public.
Another pitfall is the Doctor of Health Sciences for Physician Assistants. Theres no plan to integrate them into a Medical Doctor, and even if they got a PhD it wont help them at all. Doctor of Nursing practice thankfully has a individual license but the only thing the DNP gives you is making you a manager of other people. So theres lots of problems to solve with this.
What are your thoughts on dual or joint PhDs where you enroll in two or more universities throughout your candidature? I see it more as a collaborative effort between institutions in different countries but it is quite fascinating.
Most "new" doctoral programmes are just traditional PhD's being re-branded. It is really frustrating to search for cool new approaches since the novelty is very limited. Most Ed.D's still have traditional dissertations that akin to regular PhD's nobody will ever read. However, I did find a few schools offering "executive" cohort based Ed.D's and DBA's, which was refreshing. Unfortunately those are extremely overpriced thus the ROI to do it becomes quite debatable. Professional PhD's still have a huge written component, which is a major turnoff. I did not find yet a reasonably priced, practice based Ed.D or DBA from a reputable university that can be done remotely. I am open to suggestions here. Andy mentioned how challenging yourself by completing a terminal degree would make you a "leader in the field". However, PhD related topics are extremely narrow. Thus, I would argue that any contribution to new knowledge would basically make said person a leader in an obscure topic, which means that only a handful of people will care about its findings unless we are talking "cure for cancer" level findings or epic solutions for real world applications.
Too many people enter university. Oversupply of everything. These problems can be solved by admiting only 10% of what they admit as undergrads. Easier to change direction when at 18-19 than at 30 after getting a post doc but no job in academia.
I'm doing a professional doctorate in counselling psychology in the UK. We don't say "professional PhD though". Definitely prefer this format than straight-up PhD, tho keep in mind many professional doctorates are not funded!
My mom got a PhD in linguistics around that age. She spent the final 15 years of her career in Academia. Before that she just lectured and worked on various projects. She says her income didn't increase much, but it was a good choice, because at that age you can't keep up in other environments, and she enjoyed working with college students.
I'm a mature student, too. I'm well over 50, and I switched programs from the professional doctorate to the research Ph.D. I am the oldest thing in my class. My much younger classmates have a faster recall, which can be intimidating. I, on the other hand, take my time but benefit from life experience, which does account for something. But I don't let that bother me. Barring a few rotten apples, most of my professors have been good. Since I'm doing this for myself, I don't stress like the younger students do. I'm wiser about it. However, I chose to embark on such a journey because it fits very nicely with my current project and personal objectives. But that isn't the answer for everyone. At our age, going back to school for a top credential is a highly personal choice that depends on our curiosity about the subject matter, finances, and its application in our future plans. So, the questions to ask would be 1) what it is that you would like to get out of the program and 2) whether you are willing to put the time, financial resources, and effort into it. Hope this helps.
