A magnificent man. Eloquent, heart felt and a true freeman of our wonderful city. Big shout to the Forest fans for their incredible humility and strength, but also a massive derogation to British justice. Duckenfield will face his maker in time and must live with the truth that he perpetrated the massive injustice that all football fans now endure
Phil Scraton has lived off of that for 30 plus years even though he wasn't at the game. In his book he still managed to have numerous digs at Everton, cheap shots. Hadn't actually been to a game in years. Minimizing Liverpool fans involvement in both the Heysel and Hillsborough disasters. No wonder so many opposing fans sing always the victim it's never their fault.
The day of the tragedy at Hillsborough I called to visit my father,and found him in tears and horrorstruck at the sight of those poor folks dying and the fans-not the cops - trying to get the dying and injured to safety. Dad loved football and loved the whole idea of going to support your besties. We live in Ireland and he didnt go to British league matches because he couldn't afford it but if he had,he might very well have died there,. Or died trying to help somebody else,because that was my Dad. A true football supporter who loved the game and the whole scene. A man who cried for the needless death of people whom he didn't know but who loved the game. In his name I say that I am glad they got justice. But the price was too high. Blessed be all of them and us
got the book mate a while ago it's next in my pile to read , I have a big stack to read to get through, but this is next, I am looking forward to get it going with it. ....
heighwaysonthewing I got the book not long after it first came out and it put in print exactly what I thought about the disaster, that it was not only caused by the police but the police then covered up their involvement and blamed the fans.
He sums a lot up when he says, "...that some how football was more significant than tragedy." The importance of safety was totally disreguared that day. it is so sad to me that human life was such an afterthought. it's haunting really
What an incredible man, the determination to fight for justice for the 96 and hundreds injured from the police failures at Hillsborough is inspirational, Scraton you have definitely not wasted your life - your parents would be extremely proud of you for doing what is right and giving voiceless people a voice.
How Liverpool fans and the families of the deceased and how the city of Liverpool was treated over this, was WORSE than the appalling tragedy itself. I am shocked how the grieving families were treated and how they had to identify their loved ones in the way they did. Absolutely disgraceful. And the vilification of Liverpool fans who actually saved more lives and helped more people than anyone else, is so disgusting It Is beyond words. They turned the hero's into the villains, the grieving into the cattle, and the slandered the whole of Liverpool at a time when Liverpool was crushed and grieving by this tragedy. I am so glad the people of Liverpool kept fighting for justice though. They were treated so badly and worse still people believed what the papers said. I was only a kid when Hillsborough happened, but I remember my brother telling me that the Liverpool fans had robbed and peed over the dead etc. and I was so shocked anyone could do that and I believed what my brother said, and I believed what the media said. But when I found out the truth I was so ashamed of believing the media's lies and I am pretty sure most people who believed the lies also felt awful when they found out the truth. I never knew how to make amends to Liverpool for believing the lies that the media said about Liverpool fans when this tragedy first happened, but I do not buy the Sun paper. I will never buy the Sun either because of their nasty filthy lies on Hillsborough, and even when the Sun found out what really happened, they ignored the truth for years before they were forced to apologise. But a forced apology does not cut it. The then Sun editor should have been sacked and charged with a hate crime.
It was appalling , specially when they had to identify their loved ones from a photo and be interrogated by the police at the most horrific time. This just went on, to be vilified by the press . Thank Goodness for Phil Scraton helping these courageous and dignified families.
How there was no stewards in front of the tunnel to divert the fans still angers me still to this day as I watched disaster happening live on tv in Ireland as a Liverpool fan.
Because hillsborough was planned by the police. why were there hundreds of officers inside the stadium then only came out when they thought there was riots on the pitch etc... scraton is so right in what hes saying.
What baffles me the most up to this day is, that Duckenfield never looked at the place before he took control over it. He didn't know about the anatomy of the place he was in charge of. Never looked at the savety rules of the place either.
He went to a game a week or so before the semi final. Sheffield Wednesday v Millwall. Millwall brought about 1,000 fans who were at the Leppings Lane end. It was no sufficient preparation for Duckenfield to take charge of the semi final.
im half way through ,and its pretty tough going, but I really appreciate this guys honesty , im glad the record is being set straight though. I really feel for the families of those liverpool supporters...it must have been very hard for them seeing their loved ones treated in that way.
Newcastle fans experienced problems with crushing in the Leppings Lane lower stand just recently, January 2023. 34 years after the disaster!! Unbelievable!! I was astonished when I heard about it. That stand is all seater and has been for years and years, yet that still didn't stop problems happening.
The fans on the day were entirely innocent, but football fans in general, over decades, had put up with appalling conditions and appalling behaviour - we were ALL complicit in this happening
That man is somehow making me stronger to accept the trauma , the pictures and acount of the peoples who where there that i recently discovered (i was only 14 at the time of the tragedy)
And how hard would it have been for Sheffield Wednesday to get some white cardboard or something similar and black marker pens or paint and make some big signs, temporary signs, showing the way to the 2 side pens. It would have been easy to do, only have cost pennies but it might have saved some lives. The fans, on seeing those signs, might have not gone down the tunnel because they would have known how to get to the side pens. The central tunnel still should have been shut off though and should have been closed at 2:30pm because they were full then. That was 20 minutes before gate c was opened properly.
I think the crush was so sudden from what i can gather...things were fine in the ground until that stupid dickhead duckenfield ordered the big gate opened....then fans poored in fast... nobody had time to read anything even if signs were up... once that gate is opened there's no going back
When they first introduced the pens, my Dad (a lifelong Liverpool fan ironically) was really angry. He said there would be deaths and that the people on the terraces had to be allowed to move like waves. He was used to standing on the Kop I the 50s and 60s and told me how sometimes his feet wouldn't be on the ground. I know that they were introduced to combat pitch invasions but even if there was crowd trouble there would be no escape for anyone. YNWA RIP97
I’m a coventry lad and this could have happened 2 years earlier. It would have been Coventry fans being casualties. 1987 was a very happy year in Coventry. A bright light into what for many was a dark decade. Would Coventrians have been treated with as much contempt by the media as Liverpool at the time? And to a degree Sheffield too by the Thatcher government and the London based press!
Leeds fans you mean?? As Leeds fans were at the Leppings Lane end in 1987. I've watched the highlights of that semi final a few times and every time I do, I'm always struck by how packed that terrace is and how uncomfortable and dangerous it looks. Mind you, that was how it was back then. I loved being on a packed terrace in the 1980's, going crazy when your team scored a goal.
I was 18 and naive when this disaster happened. The aftermath was my first insight into how the full machinery of the British state can be used to demonise sections of our 'society' and the impact and influence that the right wing press had, and still has, in the UK.
Not to take anything away from this but has there been any mention of the people at home in Liverpool At 4pm I was working as taxi driver on the Wirral when I was stopped in Cleveland St Birkenhead by a Police spot check on Taxi Drivers and the officer asked me what the score was he didn’t know anything about what was happening I was also fined/charged for not wearing my taxi badge and had 48 hours to produce them Many taxi firms ran people free of charge to Sheffield but many of my fares that afternoon around 5pm comprised of people travelling round contacting families That was the day for me and it continued to about 2am Sunday morning before I could take no more after allowing a police car through a traffic light who then stopped and charged me £50 for going through a red traffic light
The people you and others helped will remember your kindness. I’ve seen interviews with survivors, one remembers a lady letting fans use her phone to ring home. As for the police, no comment 🤦🏻♀️
John smith the chairman of Liverpool made the comment about putting the reentry into Europe back because of the disaster. Bad taste comment I thought that at the time and still do
A thought on his crass statement. With it being in the early evening, he would have still been under the deceitful impression, thanks to Duckenfield and Kelly that it was the "ticketless and drunken fans who had broken into the stadium" and caused the disaster - in other words hooliganism. I'm sure over the preceding hours, days, and weeks, he would have become aware of the bullshit lies of the police.
@@gary1961 maybe, but he was aware of the state of that end of the ground. He complained to the FA after Hillsborough was chosen as the venue for the semi final and Liverpool were given the Leppings lane end. So I would have thought that he would have had a fair idea of the cause of the disaster very soon afterwards.
People have to remember this happened at the tail end of an horrendous era of football hooliganism of the 1980s. Yes the police were sometimes heavy handed at games back then but let’s not forget that there was a hardcore of fans at all clubs that did not give a toss about the safety of the vast majority of football fans. Hooliganism played no part in Hillsborough at all, it was the culmination of decades of slip shod crowd management, zero H&S, minimal ground investment and the erecting of parameter fencing at grounds. You have to look at this disaster through the lens of football as it was in 1989 not 2018 to fully understand why the tragedy happened. The warning signs had been there since 1981.
@paul smith It happened because football fans had to be caged like animals to stop them invading the pitch. Putting a crowd in a cage was bound to lead to fatalities eventually.
but dont you think if football hooliganism wasnt so rife back in them days , then supporters would not have been put in pens , there fore the crush would of been less severe ? . not that i agree supporters should be put in pens in the first place . the police mentality was hooligans due to previous altercations , therefore that mentality created time of helping people halted for a short time . hate to think how many would of been lost if supporters were in pens when the bradford city
We've seen, that earning money by overcrowding a place that does not have the capacity or savety-exits can leed to catastrophy again at the Love Parade at Duisburg in Germany. Again, no one was held responsible for it.
Why didn’t the ordinary policemen and policewoman report the alterations at the time? Self interest I suspect. This tragedy is rotten from top to bottom.
The 'Police Force' is basically like a cult, if one of the cult-members starts speaking out they get threatened and bullied into silence. Of course some of them are happy to be corrupt and soulless.
There was a culture of bullying and corruption. Prior to the disaster there was an incident where a young officer was ‘pranked’ being held up at gun point. The former senior officer was ‘moved’ thanks to this event and inexperienced Dukinfield put in charge. Apparently he never even recced the ground and had no idea of the potential crush points.
Absolutely disgusts me how the families were treated on arriving and identifying their loved ones at the make shift mortuary. Not to mention the lies and falsehoods invented by the authorities. Shame on the lot of you.
Phil's summation is insightful and for the most part accurate and on-point. It's also possible, as uncomfortable as it may be - that the disaster was a combination of multiple causes including the actions of supporters at the back of the fray. You purchase tickets and gain entry to the ground. If you arrive and find a huge crowd - it's clear you're not getting in. To move forward or to push around those not moving forward is to act recklessly and this created a scenario in which woefully-inadequate safety and negligence on the part of the police played out in a tragedy. Those supporters already in the stadium were valiant in their efforts, but supporters outside the stadium should not have been trying to move forward. And enough of them were.
Which part of 'the actions of the Liverpool supporters on that day played no part in the cause of the disaster' do you not understand? Countless hours by many investigators spent studying CCTV of inside and outside the stadium in the hours building up to and beyond 3pm. Thousands of witness statements scrutinised. Many people in a far better position than one Steve Smith were able to come to the same conclusion as the inquests and the Hillsborough Independent Panel report that 'the actions of the Liverpool supporters on that day played no part in the cause of the disaster.' The opinion of one Steve Smith is but like a fart in the wind ...... pooof, and gone. Expecting an arriving crowd of many thousands to not move forward towards the entrance points is a complete nonsense. You do realise that people were getting in through the turnstiles but nowhere near fast enough, therefore the crowd was able to move forward very slowly so there was forward momentum of the crowd outside, it was NOT senseless 'pushing, shoving, and jostling' or whatever term idiots use.
I believe everyone involved in football should watch this podcast every year "lest we forget". Knowing that a "cover-up" had been agreed by those in power was offensive that the prime minister and prince of wales visited the scene of this tragedy at the time it. The sad thing is that the government, establishment. police and those in power still share the same views about football supporters and especially those from Merseyside. The one thing that ordinary people can do is never buy the Sun newspaper!
Yes, Samuel Rowbotham, Liverpool supporters DO remember Heysel, but this video is about HILLSBOROUGH. It's a shame that you come across as too fucking thick to realise this.
@@Dessienewshoes They also can't get over things that happened over 30 years ago. Bradford City doesn't hold onto their stadium disaster in 1985 and Rangers don't bitch nonstop about the Ibrox disaster in 1971. They remember and commemorate but don't act like they're victims of some convoluted Tory/police conspiracy.
Phil Scraton has lived off of that for 30 plus years even though he wasn't at the game. In his book he still managed to have numerous digs at Everton, cheap shots. Hadn't actually been to a game in years. Minimizing Liverpool fans involvement in both the Heysel and Hillsborough disasters. No wonder so many opposing fans sing always the victim it's never their fault.
Through football hooligans this is why the Hillsborough disaster took 96 lives in 1989- nothing to do with the bad policing or the football ground- pure fans out of order, carrying on like lunatics - Had fans behaved in an orderable and respectful manner - NO football ground would have had to put up fences to keep these idiots from surround the pitch - so all 96 people would have an escape and never had their lives were taken short - So you have to blame football fans only.
You have a point with regards to the hooligan element prevalent within English football culture at that time.But the majority of fans that attend matches are true football fans.Each team has,had and always will have ‘a firm’ that orchestrates violence.You’re correct in your assumptions with this being the reason why football fans were treated in a certain way.Particularly within grounds. What aggrieves and angers the victims families is the original narrative used by police and media directly blaming THEIR FAMILIES for their own death.Also the resulting ‘cover up’ is truly appalling.So the ‘counter narrative’ from the #JFT96 movement was about seeking truth and justice for the victims.I believe Phil Scratton succeeded with this against almost insurmountable odds.Although sadly no criminal convictions will ever be made.I think that’s been the final ruling by the courts. Just my thoughts on the matter 🙏🙏✌️✌️
That end had been a known death trap for years. Many Spurs fans were injured at the 1981 semi final. There were no pens in 1981. Then pens were introduced and by 1985 there were 4 pens on the leppings lane terrace. Yet the capacity of that terrace wasn’t adjusted to take that into account. Plus it hadn’t had a valid safety certificate since 1979. Police incompetence and club negligence caused the disaster. The fans were innocent. Even the hooligans. The days of fighting in the ground, apart from 1 isolated incident at Crystal Palace, had long ceased by the time of the disaster. Those fences were redundant by then in my opinion.
Shanks said it's not a matter of of life and death football is more important than that ..how wrong you were Bill , how wrong , yes I'm glad he said about Arsenal celebrated that league win , was disrespectful and lacked class , a mouth before we buried our dead and they carry on like that. and yes their memories is buried by the machine of money making by the FA ... Liverpool FC has not done enough ...he is right , but the more they deride Merseyside , the more I'm proud to be from there ....
John Aldridge was interviewed later that year and was asked what his worst moment has been in his footballing career. He answered losing the league to Arsenal!
What a horrible tragedy. Wondering how the survivors are. These victims were killed horribly and was preventable but all the lies post tragedy. The poor victims family and survivors. The aftermath is hard to comprehend. Idk how the families dealt with this
There was no money Geoff. Some people look back on the 70s and 80s all dewy eyed simply on the basis of it being cheap to go and there was none of the commercialisation as there is today. Facilities were woeful, hooliganism was rife - you certainly ran the risk if you ventured to an away game and sadly the police treated every fan as a potential hooligan.
Everyone involved, family, bystanders, friends, concerned individuals, watching this right now, are responsible to ethically call out the abtrosity of this event, it is a duty and it was so right that the issue keep going until resolved. Human life is number one, just that simple, and now safety is demanded and must be insured . This guy is so right on.
I feel the same way. I shared this and told the real story. I remember seeing this. Iam an american and was 9 years old and can remember my grandmother saying it was caused by drunk fans.so I grew up thinking that.. To find out it was cops not doing their job and sometimes pushing ppl back into tge pen doesnt surprise me though.
This is the best account of the tragedy I have heard and understood so well. I remember watching the news and seeing the horrors unfold…. too young to understand fully what was going on and how the narrative of the events was controlled by SYP and the subsequent media reports. I’m no fan of football but I can never forget what happened that day. 💔
Only partial justice has been done. And that was after the Hillsborough independent panel report in 2012 which exonerated the Liverpool supporters of any blame concerning the day of the disaster & that The South Yorkshire Police were to blame as were Sheffield Wednesday FC who never renued the safety licence after the 81 semi final where Tottenham fans were crushed And injured. And also the verdict that overturned the deaths as accident to unlawful killing as of 2021 to 97 people (Andrew Devine died after being on life support for over 30 years in July 2021) becoming the 97th victim. But still knowbody has ever been charged and help accountable for there actions on the day Super Intendant Duckenfield. Bernard Murray. SWFC club safety officer Mackrell. The list goes on. Oh and the sanitization of Police statements on what they did on the day. Many of the normal PC's were forced to change there statements of what they did that day or it was done without there knowledge and a lot of normal Bobbies did help on that day and suffered PTSD just like the Fans. Right from the start of the story of Liverpool fans breaking down Gate C when it was Duckenfield who ordered it to be opened was the beginning of the lie. And story's of drunken tickitless fans arriving at the ground late. Also the media reaction from the Camera men turning there cameras around from photographing the game to taking pictures of dead & dying people crushed up against the perimeter fences ignoring there cries & screams for help ,watching while people's faces turned white and lips And nostrils turned blue. And also in particularly The Sun Newspapers front page headlines about Liverpool fans pocketing the dead ,and assaulting Police officers and urinating on officers trying to help .An absolutely abhorrent and downright lies to smear the fans reputation and to sway public opinions on what they called " The Truth" What the Liverpool fans ,victims & family's got was only that the deaths were unlawful killings and that they were not to blame. This as well as being the longest running legal case in British history is also the BIGGEST cover up and injustice of the highest order. Superintendent Duckenfield should have gone to prison for this as quite a few other high ranking officers should of too. Duckenfield just escaped in the Private prosecution when the jury was hung (that's a 50/50 guilty/not guilty decision made by the dury) and has again I think in 2019 got off again. Please read the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report. It's available online to the public. I am not a Liverpool fan I support Carlisle United. And was 11 years old when the Hillsborough Disaster happened. It was my first year of watching Football and at the time being so young you know it's bad but are too young to understand it. And have your childhood to live. But ever since the 20th anniversary I've taken a real interest and watched just about ever documentary ,footage available. And also read Phil Scratons book "The Truth" and read the entire Independent Panel Report. As well as the survivors story's on the Hillsborough Disaster website that are more horrific than this video and harrowing to read. Without the shear determination of Professor Phil Scraton & later culture Secretary Andy Burnham (On the 20th anniversary) when Liverpool fans erupted into "Justice For tge 96" I doubt we would have had the Hillsborough Independent Panel..so huge respect to both men who fraught for the victims & family's justice. A lot of comments on this video like others are bigated , ignorant or darn right offensive. So before posting your comments do some proper research. And post something of value out of respect for the 97 dead. The victims family's who have fought tirelessly for justice. And those people who have died because of suicide or early deaths due to stress as there are many attributed to the worst sporting disaster in the UK and the BIGGEST misscarage of justice or injustice not only in England but in the entire world in sporting terms. It has nothing realy to do with Football anymore as times have changed and Hillsborough legacy is that we got safe all seated stadiums for the top two Leagues in English Football. But its about human lives ,normal , honest & hard working people who have loved ,lost ,suffered and fought tirelessly for JUSTICE For the 97.
Absolutely brilliant comment, you summed it up perfectly. I've been saying exactly the same thing for years. I stood on the Leppings Lane terrace about 2 months before the disaster, to watch my team Manchester United, play Sheffield Wednesday in a league game. My Dad and I were directed to the corner pen, the one by the banked terrace in the corner, because the central pens and tunnel was closed off around 2.45pm. Stewards and police were in front of the tunnel, directing people to the side pens. Which I now know to be the ' freeman tactic '. Luckily, Brian Mole was the officer in charge on the day I went, I presume. Especially as we took a large away following and the whole terrace was full.
@@andyclohessy5840 Had Brian Mole not been demoted the disaster may never of happened. Although even now with seating I read a report recently about fans being crushed at leppings lane. Glad you're ok it could have easily been anybody visiting leppings lane
@@alderaanic1042 spot on mate. Although it would have probably been played elsewhere, there's a slight possibility that we may have played Liverpool at Hillsborough if we'd beaten Forest in the quarter final in 1989. My Dad said to me that he couldn't believe how cramped that Terrace was, especially for a so called Premier ground in England at the time. It was known for years that the Leppings Lane terrace was a problem, a bottleneck and a potential death trap. Great comment again.
@@andyclohessy5840 it could do simply been avoided had they had stewards on the tunnel and folk directing people to the side pens. Outside was bad but knowbody died at least.
@@alderaanic1042 agreed mate. It was known as the ' freeman tactic ', the process of putting stewards and police at the entrance of the central tunnel and closing the doors when the central pens were full. Those stewards and police would also direct people to the outer pens. Although Brian Mole was transferred to Barnsley, why couldn't he have been transferred after the semi final?? Although there were crushing problems in 1987 and 88 on the Leppings Lane terrace, at least he knew what he was doing.
Wow. What an articulate version of events. Very hard to argue against and an absolute travesty that to this day the families haven't got justice. Utterly disgraceful.
Ive always wondered why fans were penned in. The fences at the front i could understand because of the hooligan element in the 70s and 80s but why have all the penning? That day when the Liverpool fans came in when Gate C was opened they could have moved sideways and a tragedy could have been avoided. Just shows the mentality of the government at the time Thatcher hated football fans
Sorry Mr Scraton, But why did I personally, witness fans surging and jostling at the turnstiles in an urgent bid to get into the ground. I went to the game as a total neutral. It was NOT a myth about the fans surging and jostling !!!
"But why did I personally, witness fans surging and jostling at the turnstiles in an urgent bid to get into the ground." 1) Jostling and surging happened at every big game football match back then. But football fans are not psychic. How could they know that the stadium section they were going into was already overpacked? How could the fans know that there was a huge crush ahead of them? They had no idea. 2) The bottle neck at the turnstiles was why the police opened the turnstile barriers to begin with. The police should not have done this as that stadium section was already over packed and letting in huge numbers of fans into a space where there was no space is one of the main causes of this tragedy. 3) Trying to blame the Liverpool fans for what happened is shameful. Show some respect.
The fans were men, women and children who went to watch a football match and were acting normally. Yes, some of the crowd had been for a drink or two before the game and yes, maybe a few fans didn’t have a ticket and either looked for a tout or even tried to slip the turnstile operator a tenner to get in but there was no mass drunkenness and no mass of ticketless fans. Those were the two biggest myths of hillsborough. Put out by the senior police officers who lost control on the day and were trying to save their jobs afterwards.
