IDK, but I'll tell you this: that "Mars" at 1:00 or so gives me feelings that make me question my heterosexuality... ...Guess I'm the type to marry a digital piano with weighted and graded keys, but cheat on her with campy WWI-era tech.
The Royal Navy wanted this as only so many magazines per gun were issued (2?) so they wanted to be able to use loose rounds until magazine fire was necessary. In boarding or on service on land the idea was to reserve the magazine for a rush by defenders or assault by cavalry. Officers and Petty Officers would have the pistol in boarding but the sailors had cutlasses or rifles.
I carry revolvers nearly daily and my nephew drew a picture of me in which I was wearing a duster for some reason and his depiction of my gun looked like a Webley autoloading pistol. I keked.
I love the Mars. That insane magazine system. That rotating breech thingy. It's not a big handgun, it's a tiny naval artillery piece. I mean, don't get me wrong, I recognize that that is ridiculous and commercially nonsensical. I'm not saying it should have succeeded. I'm just saying I love it. :)
The Desert Eagle proves that the Mars Pistol could have been successful had Hugo Mars not been so caught up on making his gun so mechanically complicated that it requires a Swiss Watchmaker to clean it.
I've always felt that the Webley automatics never quite got the recognition they deserved. So thanks for shedding further light on this interesting pistol!
I own one of these pistols. It was the property of Lt Col Thistlethwaite who served at Gallipoli. He contracted amoebic dysentery and spent the remainder of the war in a sanitarium, so survived. Excellent presentation, as always
Why a heel release,? So you don't drop the magazine by accident! Stop thinking modern Hollywood and speed shooting. An officer should be directing not fighting, so shouldn't empty the magazine that fast. When it comes to changing the magazine, you have a gaurded release, but still quickly.
Yeah. Mind that those pistols were worn in belt holsters that could take a lot of hits (the officer crawling out of the trenches, artillery craters, under the barbed wire, ecc...) before the weapon was draw. Imagine the guy finally drawing the pistol, and the magazine, that had been already unlocked by the button being pressed at some point, flying out of it.
actually putting the release close to where the mag comes out makes it clear to identify. For someone not familiar with pistols about 1915 might want to push the button to release the slide or to remove savety and boom... magazine falls out.
I notice a recurring theme with British weapons, the small arms committee was a nightmare to deal with, constantly changing it's mind on what it wants and being vague. Plus that obsession over controlling soldiers fire with only allowing one round at a time, I am almost surprised their machine guns were not required to have single shot capability.
Exbiditionary warfare makes you rather reliant on not running out of ammunition. Its not like the world beyond Europe and America was covered in railway lines at the time to deliver more when you needed it. Once you marched away from that ship or rail head you were on your own.
It’s important to remember with the Wembley Automatic is that the Admiralty wanted, so they lead the design (magazine cut off etc.) for the Admiralty’s tactical requirements in the early 1900’s, before the complete change in understanding of requirements that WW1 created. However, the Army had no tactical requirement for an automatic, pistols were really just for officers at the time, who were expected to provide their own, and certain troops who did not require / could not carry a rifle - machine gunners, drivers, MP’s etc. It’s only in the last 10 years that British doctrine has lead to pistols being issued to most troops. In terms of military weapons, the Admiralty were considered to be the experts in large calibration, longe range, big-bang making equipment, sometimes fitted into turrets etc., while the Army were considered to be the experts in weapons that could be carried by a single person. This meant small arms testing tended to be referred to the Brown Jobs.
I just want to thank you guys for all that you do. My whole life I’ve been obsessed with the history of small arms, particularly military small arms, and it makes me happy to see others are as well. For as long as I can remember I’ve wanted your RU-vid channel to exist, I just didn’t know it.
Fantastic job, guys. This is the best historic gun site I have come across on You Tube. Although your videos are lengthy, I really never want them to end. There's a compliment! My Father was in charge of Naval outdoor ranges at (UK) Whale Island/HMS Excellent, which you correctly quoted in the history of this Pistol. I never knew this one existed, so very interesting for me, thanks. Keep up the great work and keep away from too much shooting/penetration.
What is it with RLM fans and guns? Seems like antique guns and Mike Stoklasa are as hand in hand as Filthy Frank and youtube cancer. Just something I've always noticed.
Why the heel rlease? Cause those pistols were worn in belt holsters that could take a lot of hits (the officer crawling out of the trenches, artillery craters, under the barbed wire, ecc...) before the weapon was draw. Imagine the guy finally drawing the pistol, and the magazine, that had been already unlocked by the button being pressed at some point, flying out of it.
One more reason - an old digger once told me that back then, the brass generally didn't want mags dumped onto the ground where they could get trampled and possibly destroyed, and a heel release means it pops out directly into your off-hand (which is operating the release) so you can quickly and easily pop it into a pocket for reloading later.
Regarding Webley's ergonomics; while not the big .455, my M&P .32 model I found surprisingly to be one of the most comfortable AND accurate pistols in my collection, especially on moving targets (and I have a couple of hundred 20th century pocket pistols)! I can't explain it, it just feels GOOD! Incidentally, it's a shame you don't do a moving target test, as men didn't always stand still in WW1.
Unbelievable as usual. You guys rock. Thank you for always doing a super fabulous job. I not only collect WW1 and WW2 firearms for the shooting but also the history and you guys always do a fantastic job with the history of each firearm.
It really is a shame the British Army didn’t adopt this. Coming from Webley & Scott, (The UK’s Colt, essentially,) it could’ve easily been Britain’s contender to the M1911 and P08 Luger. But nope, they stuck with the Webley revolver, EVEN into WWII... -I can understand why they kept the Webley revolver for service in the Great War since it was still relevant, I absolutely cannot understand why they still chose to keep it in their army by 1940. They technically even downgraded it to a smaller caliber thanks to Enfield. Sigh...
I've just come across this site. It came out of watching the Great War channel. I'm Canadian and love that period of our history, so ended up here curious about the Ross rifle and loved your historical as well as technical review of the rifle and you gave me a better insight as to what was going on with the rifle at the time. You guys do a wonderful job of reviewing these historical fire arms
The mag release is on the heel because soldiers weren't just dumping empty mags all over the place. You would grab, stow the empty and then insert a freshy.
I can't understand why the British wanted the ability to single load a pistol. I understand that there was a (dated) school of thought with rifles that advocated that rifles should be fired at once, loaded singularly so that the unit could fire again as a whole. (The good old musket days.). Was there some corresponding theory for pistols? I've always thought that they were self defense weapons and not anything you'd be firing on command in a group like a rifle. It's so weird, it's driving me nuts. Any theories on this?
The powers that be were paranoid about soldiers wasting ammo, it was the same with the rifles, i guess it boils down to the fact that most of the higher ranks were old single shot trained.
In practice, "dum-dum" is simply an archaic name for hollow-point slugs, or alternatively, for soft-point slugs. There's nothing "explosive" about it, unless you mean frangible ammunition, which is virtually never used in combat scenarios because it simply doesn't offer any real advantage over either hollow/soft-points or FMJ.
We apply Rule .303 , quote from Breacker Morant, Aussie film, book is called Scapegoats of Empire, and was the reason Colonial Troops were not Court Martiled by British Authorties in either world war.
I'm well aware how the colloquialism developed. That's pretty unrelated to the argument except when you consider that the Dum Dum arsenal was only notable for the first iterations of both SJP and JHP ammunition used by the British.
As an even further aside, it is alleged that the author William S. Burroughs shot and killed his late Wife, Joan Vollmer. With this very pistol.doubt me? Read ‘Naked Lunch .’
I had a Webley ,455 sa 1913 pistol, 8000 were made but failed the mud test for the trenches and were issued to the RN instead. Mine was a mint specimen very slick and smooth in its action vulcanite grips one of the first composites Sold it after 5 years a mistake I regret See Webley story for more Info
When will we get a video about the U.S. Springfield? I heard it was basically a copy of the mauser , but didn't surpass it.(I heard it is not as good as the Mauser) I also heard there was a legal battle Mauser had with Springfield where they wanted royalties for the copy. I want to see how it fairs against a Mauser and listen to the... drama behind the U.S. company had about paying money to Germany, during Ww1 was going on. I think that would make a fascinating story to hear about it all regarding this gun. (It would be ironic if the p-17 rifle (American Lee Enfield) turns out to be better than the Springfield, according to you guys haha)
If a Glock and a Mars got drunk at senior prom, 9 months later the orphanage would find a Webley self loader in a basket on the doorstep. It really is the Australopithecus of self loader, lol.
Why the complaint about the number of rounds? Colt 1911 also carried 7 rounds in its magazine and its grip is not that much smaller.... Its not a small round.
48' in - Churchill liked the concept of the self-loading pistol. He selected a Mauser '96 when he served in South Africa in the 2nd. Boer War, and he insisted his detective during WW2 carried a US Government .45. Winston WAS half-American, after all!
Peter Baxter Churchill used a 45 cal commercial Colt Government Model when he served as a brigadier on the western front after he left the Cabinet following Gallipoli
Is the 1895 becoming the next lee enfield/m1911 in that people will ask for it and you might tease us about it but it's not coming for a while but will be beautiful production quality?
PPK418 To be honest we end up holding off on those episodes most of the time because a lot of pieces get sent to us from viewers and those we want to get out the door, back to the owners as soon as possible.
Othais - as frustrating as the melting down of the parts is to hear about, it's not without reason. As I'm sure you're aware scrap was, figuratively speaking, worth its weight in gold in the dark early days of WWII.
The Webley fosberry I would love to have one of those what a strange idea for a semi auto pistol sounds good on paper ,the reliability of a webley with semi auto fire looks very complex though a nightmare for trench conditions
I dont know why Europe seems to love the heal magazine release on pistols I think even most self loading hand guns form Europe still have heal releases.
and in all this piffle im terribly afraid ive made the unpardonable sin of loosing track of my rounds. unforgivable i know. so i say old chap. does fortune shine down upon you this day? what say you old boy? favor a go and all that?
umm hadnt seen your mk6 episode but I do have one made by enfield! rare only about 22k made, and after conversions to 45acp who knows how many are left and in 455.
That is an Office's gun it isn't going to get dirty. The Americans had was the Colt 1911 and that was worse in the mud. it is simple to field strip with no loose small parts. At the time butt magazine catches were common in Europe. The single-shot mod was asked for by the customer I think William Whitting's cure is elegant. I think any criticisms are coloured by more modern firearms just remember this gun was competing with the Colt 1905 and the W not, the 1911.
Churchill's love and obsession for anything automatic has to do with what he experienced in the Boer Wars. He was involved in the 2nd one and he was a journalist if I remember and he got cornered by the Boers and he only managed to escape being captured with his Mauser C96 Bolo variant and when he got back to Britain he lauded the weapon heavily in front of the press too. That's also how the Mauser C96 got so popular across the globe and most importantly China on how did they even arm and copy the pistol magnificently into what became China's most used pistol during WWI, Interwar, Second Sino-Japanese War, WWII and beyond.
Using a pound sterling inflation calculator and currency conversion, that 4 pound 6 shillings comes out to about $750 in today's money. A bit expensive, sure, but not an outrageous price for such a thing.
A pity the British never took on this pistol. It was put through extensive trials by the Royal Navy and they really liked it. This pistol was ahead of its time.
This is the Wembley fosberry for sure the cartridge couldn’t be beefed up to operate the mechanism which led to an inadequate cycle of the mechanism it was a job to cycle it by hand
That really shows how uncharted the territory of self-loading pistols was at the time. All these random, unnecessary mechanics and wanton complexity make this period so interesting.
We have to remember that the idea of wrapping the recoil spring around the barrel only showed itself with the Browning 1910 (and knowing Browning, he probably had a patent on the idea anyway.) Since this gun's inception would have been prior to that, it's understandable. Everything looks obvious in hindsight...but it's seeing it with foresight that made Browning's innovations so successful. PS: At least the V-spring keeps the barrel down low to minimize muzzle flip (even if they did still manage to get the balance wrong in the end) - something a lot of its contemporaries weren't too successful with. And...it certainly is interesting from the perspective of today.
I wish modern autoloaders we're all boring ass browning designs. As great as the basic tilting barrel wonder-nines are, there is something sexy about an exposed barrel on an autoloader.
Im not the only one whos kind of weirded out at how the Webley company managed to design a revolver with glorious lines and a unique profile, only to then make a brick with a pipe stuck on it, right?
yeah, it is very odd. Looking at their revolvers vs. the SL, you wouldn't necessarily think they were made by the same company. Except that all are really beefy.
