HMS Agincourt, a ship that went through many hands before ending up in the Royal Navy, is looked at today. Want to support the channel? - / drachinifel Want to talk about ships? / discord
i dont mean to be so offtopic but does someone know of a way to log back into an instagram account?? I stupidly lost my account password. I would love any tricks you can offer me!
The Agincourt's turrets weren't designated "A" "B" "P" "Q" etc but were called (starting at the bow) "Sunday" "Monday", Tuesday", " Wednesday", Thursday", "Friday" and "Saturday" (at the stern).
"Hmm, are you sure we can't squeeze another turret or two in there? There appears to be some deck space without a turret, we can't waste valuable deck space like that."
@@ThatSlowTypingGuy In a word: Absurd. A 21 knot 12 inch gunned ship by 1940 was pretty much worthless in any fleet actions. Note that the only such battleship operated by a major power was Arkansas, and she only did gunfire support missions. And, she was kept away from the Pacific until 1945.
I LOVE the still pic at 2:07. A submachine gun, two pistols, at least three different kinds of grenades, and just because that assortment isn't silly enough, some rifle cartridges that clearly won't fit any of the guns he's carrying.
SMS Goeben is a story about missed opportunity. She survived till 1973 (!) when she was scrapped. Afaik the ship was offered to Germany to be bought back and there was a privately driven campaign to bring it home as a museum ship but the private campaign didn’t secure funding and the government wasn’t interested. So she went to the scrap yards. If I’m correct she would have been the only surviving Battlecruiser of her time today. SMS Seydlitz would go on to survive the Battle of Jutland in the most astonishing way: Sailing in reverse to not sink itself.
The Goeben/yavuz sultan selim was one of those ships I wish they would have preserved as it would have been a great little chunk of naval history as it stands the only dreadnought battleship that exist that is not on the bottom of the ocean is the USS Texas which I'm not complaining about but it would be amazing to have something from the early days of dreadnought battleships
Really sad and pathetic that Germany would decline to preserve its Imperial naval legacy like that, but in the '60s and '70s, Germany had other priorities..
Well the ship that died the first shots of ww1, the austro hungarian river Monitor SMS botrog, is still afloat, but is terible Condition, used as a barge in serbia and none is willing to have her. So much history that none care for it's a shame
The Goeben would be the only battlecruiser in existence period!! (Well, at least above water!) In fact I believe when HMS Renown was scrapped in the late 40's the Goeben/Yavuz was the last battlecruiser in existence until her scrapping!
Fun factoid: when British shipyards built a ship all the hundreds and hundreds of name and instruction plates for the equipment etc were made with English on one side and the language of the ship buyer on the other. This was done because it was easier for the fitters to put the right plates on the first time. Agincourt had all the Portuguese/English plates ripped out and replaced with Turkish/English plates. When the RN took over the ship all the plates were pulled out again and flipped over to English.
@@ZerokillerOppel1 AFAIK, Britain never paid for the Agincourt as it was intended for the Turks. Besides, the Brazilians sold it to the Turks - the Turks would have to complain to Brazil about a refund after the UK seized it. It was a gloriously ridiculous ship.
@@johnlavery3433 If I may quote from Richard Hough's “The Big Battleship” Michael Joseph Ltd., 1966. Page 152 "Day by day the ship began to assume a more familiar, a more British guise. The same plumbers who six months earlier had replaced the Brazilian latrine fittings with the exotic yet somehow indecent “squatters”, were now employed, on overtime and through the night, in wrenching them out again, sealing off the cold taps and securing paper-holders, and re-equipping them with proper Western sanitary equipment, varying from the highest quality decorated water closets for Captain Nicholson, down to the standard service issue for the ratings."
For various reasons, my all time favorite dreadnought. She was described as "a floating magazine with a tremendous volume of fire as her best protection".
If you noticed the odd looking hulk with the cranes and crude shacks covering her main deck (on the left side of the photo) at 8:02, that is the center-battery ironclad, HMS Sultan (1870) which was broken up in 1946.
I had an ancestor who served aboard HMS Agincourt as a petty officer at Jutland, a cousin of my paternal grandmother. My German great grandfather was a Swedish born German who served in the German navy aboard SMS Koenig at Jutland. After the mutiny he emigrated to the southern USA. Agincourt has her own biography: The Big Battleship by Richard Hough. I'd love to obtain the crew lists for these two ships.
My grandfather was on SMS König as well!!! People don't believe me usually for the simple reason of age...but he was very young when he volunteered in 1914 and he was a fairly old man when he became a dad for the last time. I'm in my 40s now. If you want crew lists...I suggest the Federal German Archive as a starting point. A lot of the German Army archive was lost in WW2 in some senseless last minute terror bombing. I do have a rare book with a crew list of a few submarines. Also you could ask the German "Marinebund" for help. Further there are active and retired Naval officers in the Naval Amateur Radio Club ... So there are multiple avenues....hope this helps
I recently bought a copy of that book on eBay. A long time ago I owned it, but that copy has disappeared. It is both fascinating and enlightening. A very good read.
Very interesting. I served on HMS Agincourt, a battle class destroyer in 1956, She was equipped with two turrets of twin 4.5" and we had been alerted urgently and proceeded at speed south from Beruit where we briefly experienced an issue with an Algerian sweeper owned by the Egyptians. I was a Leading Seaman QA2 breech worker on B turret, The CPO in charge has strings linking left and right gun breech operators by string so that we could all observe the stop-loading order. In the middle of the night, an unidentified ship was encountered. We fired star shell but because the tiffys had been messing with the fire control system the star shell hit the sweeper in the funnel. It was never recorded and what happened afterwards when we returned to Cyprus.
I love the bit about how the Agincourt looked as her entire main battery fired. I can imagine It was an awesome site to see her firing. The Agincourt is close to how I would imagine my dream dreadnaught. Two turrets forward, 4 turrets aft, 2 facing forward and 2 facing aft with the middle two super firing. A compact superstructure that concentrates the armor to ensure max protection.
At the 7:01 mark "This resulted in a ship that looked more like a turret farm than a battleship in the traditional sense." had me howling with laughter. So many guns, and in such an odd configuration.
It wasnt the biggest battleship in the world. But its freakish layout of seven primary turrets gave it the heaviest broadside weight of any warship when it was built, if I am not mistaken. More than 13.5 inch gun ships of the day. It wasnt until mid First World War when the Brits came out with the 15 inch Queen Elizabeth class were there normal ships with a heavier broadside weight.
Well, turret farms were certainly a big piece of battleship history, that's why we need to preserve the last of the turret farms (which is a official designation if I'm not mistaken), the long living Texas.
8:04 that vessel on the left is fascinating. looks like an old "ship of the line" with a new bow bolted on and a whole lot of shacks nailed on top and on the sides to make it a floating workshop.
There was a lot of "repurposing" of older out if date warships back then... Notable one that comes to mind was the USS Kearsarge, which became a crane ship, and helped service other battleships and assist in damage repair/ new construction into the mid 1950s.
English: The British battleship HMS Erin in a floating dry dock, circa in 1918. The location may be Invergordon, Scotland (UK). In the left foreground are several old warships employed as barracks and for other stationary support duties. The one furthest right may be HMS Algiers (formerly HMS Triumph of 1873). That at the far left, with two smokestacks closely spaced side-by-side, may be HMS Mars of 1897. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Erin_in_floating_dry_dock_WWI_IWM_SP_2106.jpg Note that the British battleship in that picture is the Erin, and not the Agincourt. However, Erin was the other battleship that was built in the UK for Turkey and was requisitioned by the RN, along with Agincourt, at the start of the First World War.
I saw it in 1945, but it had been converted into a floating platform for a large crane. The ram bow with its molded US coat of arms shield were striking to my 8 year old eyes. It was scrapped later. What a loss of history as was the loss of the USS Oregon BB-3 which was commissioned in 1898 and scrapped in 1956 and the Kearsarge in 1955 !
I don't remember if it was mentioned on here, but, as there were 7 turrets, they were called Sunday, Monday, Tuesday etc to Saturday. I saw an old chap years ago in his waterside garden, there was a dinghy alongside his frontage, called "The Gin Palace". I asked him if he had served on HMS Agincourt, he was amazed and VERY pleased that I had sussed that from his dinghy as I was quite young at the time!. He was a chap who had been an Equerry to the Queen.
There was a time when the history of HMS Agincourt could have been my Mastermind Specialist Subject! It was fascinating being reminded of it. I was sufficiently fired up that I went on eBay and found copies of two of Richard Hough's books. "The Big Battleship" his biography of Agincourt; and "Dreadnought: A history of the modern battleship" a fascinating book with some great background on ship design. It has a forward by C.S.Forester no less! "The Big Battleship" is a great read, not only for the Agincourt information, but also because he goes into the background of some of the characters and the history of the participating countries. There are lots of quotes from first hand records. A must have book not just for the Agincourt afficionado, but anyone interested in Dreadnoughts in general.
Thanks for the info. Btw, there is now an outstanding 1:700 scale model kit of AGINCOURT by Flyhawk Models. There are 2 editions of it- standard & deluxe- with metal barrels, photo etch upgrades, ect. 🚬😎👍
The first time I read about HMS Agincourt was before I had internet access in an old squadron signals publication in action which you could buy at any hobby shop on the Wyoming class and I had to find out what this ship looked like and thankfully when we did get internet access there were a couple of websites that had a few pictures of HMS Agincourt and I was not disappointed It was every bit crazy looking as I expected. I read one description of firing a full 14-gun brideside and they said there were some pop rivets and the kitchen what's the greatest casualty as there was a lot of things that got shattered. I'm glad there was a guide on this made
What from what I've read in a book, the turrets were named (bow to stern), Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thersday, Friday, Saturday, and of course Sunday!!!...
#138 HMS Agincourt had a checkered career. She was a Lucky Ship. Lightly armored she could have blown up in battle. Very unusual design, and not the best! Thanks for your presentation.
Happy Highway Given that no battleship justified her cost and most of them never actually fought other big-gun ships, the fact she fought at all means she’s more combat-effective than nearly all other battleships. Which really shows how useless these things were.
@@bkjeong4302 The british battleships justified their cost in that Germany was never able to invade britain and remained under blockade for the duration of both world wars,
ACED In WWII the battleship was obsolete thanks to naval aviation having just become the new arbiter of sea control, and in WWI geographic realities meant that the blockade was largely enforced by cruisers with the Grand Fleet serving more as a deterrent. Note that the High Seas Fleet never actually planned to engage the Grand Fleet and outright defeat it; their plan was to take it out a few isolated elements at a time.
@@bkjeong4302 Carrier warfare was much less relevant than heavy surface ship engagements in the atlantic theatre in ww2. As for ww1, sure the cruisers enforced the blockade but the High seas fleet could have broken it were it not for the grand fleets dreadnoughts. The point stands, britains vast fleet of battleships kept the germans at bay and under immense economic pressure in both wars. I can see Germany victorious in both world wars were it not for the Royal navies battleships.
**As the narrator said, the Agincourt was able to evade the torpedoes, while the Marlboro was hit as it steamed beside it's sister ships, the Newport, and the Winston. The long, skinny battlecruiser HMS Virginia Slim was also hit, as were the smaller cruisers Salem Light and Doral Light.** Two other cruisers were late to the battle, they were the Benson & Hedges.... Parliament was none too happy to hear that these and other ships were late to show up. There was a meeting about it on the Pall Mall. Admiral Chesterfield received most of the blame, and he was demoted to captain of the Kent. He had always been somewhat of a Maverick, way back from his days serving on the Dunhill, the Mayfair and the Richmond. Lord Phillip Morris saw Merit in the performance of this ship. After the war, many of the veteran officers got good jobs in the Embassy, while sailors received Basic jobs. One officer eventually became Viceroy of Tareyton. The immediate post-war years were very Kool times indeed...
@@waynevreeland3141 Yeah, me too, at least until i quit smoking menthols after 28 years. Its funny how much you end up LOATHING the thought of being a smoker, AFTER you quit being a smoker!
I seem to recall the turrets were named after the days of the week as opposed to the more common practice of A, B, X, Y, etc.; am I remembering this right?
I Enjoyed this Video re a ship c/w complicated story. He mentions the South American situation (natural resource sales, bigger government defense budgets, and regional rivalries lead to a naval build up), considering ordering different ships & gun size/number, things change, then the Turks urgent interest, WW 1, Don't Sell this battleship to our Turkish enemy and the Royal Navy takeover. I remember: 14 x 12" guns (7 twin turrets nicknamed Monday to Sunday). I still think armour is more important than speed in the end. Good job by this video's author!
Agincourt and Erin: 2 ships that cost British Empire more than a million soldiers. There's no way Young Turks could sway the public opinion to Germans had the British delivered our ships. Great video and thank you for converting these old videos to human voice. Waiting for Goeben to become humanized too! :D
Furthermore, if the Ottomans remained neutral, the Russians could have kept exporting grain and importing arms through the straits, with the possibility the war wouldn't have gone so badly for them, which might have meant no February Revolution and no October Revolution-good job, Winnie!
The Ottomans had already signed a pact with the Germans prior to 1914 so seizing the Agincourt would have made no difference. It did however get used as an excuse for purely propaganda purposes. Edit: Your statement is based on a myth. I now have a copy of Richard Hough's "The Big Battleship", essentially a biography or the ship. He has quotes from both British and German sources that were written at the time. To summarise, the Turks had two factions, and "Old Guard" led by the Sultan (equivalent to King) and the Grand Vizier (equivalent to Prime Minister) who wanted to remain neutral, and a set of younger politicians and more importantly Army officers who called themselves "The Young Turks", who favoured siding with Germany. Nobody favoured siding with Britain. The YT's had been pressuring the government to side with Germany. They had mostly done their training in Germany. The Turkish Army had been equipped by Germany, while Britain had equipped the Navy. However the RN detachment helping train the Turks was not well supported from Britain, and was at a disadvantage. The Germans were being very forceful with their support. As a result early in 1914 it became clear that the Young Turks had gained the upper hand. This was re-enforced when SMS Goeben and SMS Breslau managed to evade the RN and make it into Constantinople at the beginning of August. The Germans made a big public show of handing these ships over to the Turks. The point that is continually ignored about the situation is that by the end of July 1914 the Turks had ALREADY negotiated a Treaty of Alliance with Germany, and a signed draft was in the hands of the German government. The arrival of Goeben and the seizing of Agincourt were used as PR to camouflage the reality. And the contract with Armstrong's included a clause allowing the RN to seize the ship "in critical circumstances". All ships being built in British yards for foreign navies had this clause, and I believe still do.
While reading a PDF of Courier magazine which was a miniatures wargame magazine there is a Battle of Jutland HMS Agincourt after action report printed in it in its entirety. The author of the article was on a trip to England when he purchased a book. Inside it he found a folded piece of paper which contained the report.
Again a illustrious vid .... this leads to my proposal to produce a vid about the best british seaman ever, the Scotsman Lord Cochrane, who freed South-America with nearly nothing. Most south-american navies called a warship "Almirante Cochrane". Ok, i have to commit, that after the Spaniards were out, South-America is ruled by anglo-american corporates till our days, not so much difference to the Spaniards, but Cochrane's performance is still outstanding and let Nelson look like a dwarf.
My thanks for this video. I have the book on this ship and a 1/700 scale resin model that I was planning to construct. However, a new model maker has turned up with a plastic offering. There are three models available for HMS Agincourt, 2 in 1/700 scale and 1 in 1/350 scale. Combrig offer a 1/700 scale resin waterline version of how she looked in 1918. The rear tripod tower had been removed at this time. Flyhawk have just released a 1/700 scale version in plastic as she looked at Jutland. They also have a delux version with brass gun barrels and photoetch. The 1/350 scale is by Ironshipwrights in the US. Resin and photoetch so expensive in postage.
The Agincourt was not the reason for the Ottomen Empire to switch to the German's. The German's convinced the Turks to open a new frontline against Russia. Therefore they gave the 2 ships (you mentioned) to the Ottoman Empire. The first year or so the Yavuz (ex Goeben) was driven by German soldiers. Sorry for my bad English, thanks for you contribution, it's very helpfull...
The sultan was not aware of the agreement and thus Cemal Pasha (one of the three pashas) was against the alliance with Germany before this event (he was more interested on an alliance with the French).
HMS Agincourt: A slightly British ship with South American flair and a very British history. It was reclaimed from legitimate ownersby means of planting the White Ensign on it. Somebody somewhere in the Royal NAvy then became very happy with the number of guns they had just aquired.
Is it just me or is the guy at 2:10 a Soviet? He seems to have a PPSh-41, two Nagant M1895s, three F1 grenades, two RGD-33 grenades (one with and one without the fragmentation sleeve), and an RPG-40.
I am so happy that finally someone is doing good stuff about Naval history :D pls do a Video about the IJN Tosa it would be a pretty interesting Video I think
Drachinifel: I know there was some type of limit, from Brazil, on the ship that eventually became the HMS Agincourt. I can remember if it was her beam or draft. I do know that it had something to do with her home port, or another Brazilian port that she may be sent to in "times of trouble." Could you please let me know which measurement, and exactly the why?
I remember reading that there was some controversy when American shipyards built the "Minas Geraes" with more guns then the USS Michigan. But the US Navy had rejected the design because the side turrets weakened the strength girder of the ship plus the space for the barbettes took up valuable engine room space. The US Navy also stopped putting turrets in between engine rooms at this time as cooling the magazines was a problem. The difference in temperature of the shells resulted in a large dispersion of salvos. The New York and Wyoming classes were notorious for their poor accuracy so much, that the midship guns were directed separately from the fore and aft guns.
One of the most preciuos resources of Chile, Peru and Bolivia had been saltpeter. Thus their war for the control of the saltpeter mines in the borderregion between them in 1879-1884 was also called "Saltpeter War". Alfred Thayer Mahan had been there to represent the US economy interests. In that time he developed his theory of the war winning effect of a strong sea power. His theory lead to the naval arms race of many countries, that continued into WWI and is still in effect to this day, looking at the US sea power.
They were small coast defense ships. The Eidsvold class was a class of coastal defence ships, two of which were built for the Royal Norwegian Navy in 1899 by Armstrong Whitworth. The class consisted of two ships, HNoMS Eidsvold and HNoMS Norge. Locally they were referred to as panserskip (lit.: armoured ship).
@@Drachinifel Well it shouldn't, the Argentine claim to the Falklands is BS, and based on a usurpation involving a murder and a rape. And they even call South Georgia 'Georgia del Sur', showing that they can't even borrow and hispanicise a French name, but have to refer to King George.
Really appreciate these I just found this channel and have been enjoying greatly there used to be another guy but he wasn’t as good only showed a static view of the ship keep it up
When I was in the Andrew, HMS Bellerophon was pronounced Bell-er-off-on and not as it is pronounced at 11:34. I believe that it was an "umbrella" name for ships in reserve at Portsmouth, often used for accommodation. I don't know which pronunciation is correct because we often mangled the names of Greek and Roman deities, a popular source for ship's names.
Hey, you should do major naval action commentary, such as Jutland, or Leyte Gulf, or possibly Battle of the Coral Sea (and the like) Also could you do HMCS Haida? (Royal Canadian Tribal class DD)
Could you do a review of the U.S. Navy AR (Auxiliary Repair) Class built during WWII and including ships such as the USS Jason, USS Hector, USS Achilles, etc. I served aboard the Jason and it was a fascinating ship built upon an ocean liner hull.
Were the Turks ever compensatedd for what many individuals had subscribed? I remember reading a monograph on this vessel in the '60s. Its designer was Sir Hugh Tennyson d'Eyncourt. (and I can't remember peoples' names!).
Seems to be a good place ask for some clarification. ISTR reading that the Turkish ships were not only retained but that the money was also not returned to Turkey and that this is what really miffed Johnny Turk. Later I recall reading about a plan to use the Turkish money to bribe some Turkish officials to stay out of the war but Winston put the kibosh to that plan. So, he developed the plan to seize the ships, retain the funds, and then not return the funds as a bribe to keep that front from opening. How close to a cigar are my memory banks functioning? Seems like something that would make a fascinating special on some history channel if for nothing but clarification.
I have 30 waterline or (mainly) full hull models in various scales from HMS Dreadnought to HMS Vanguard, though my current favourite is the Heller 1/400th scale model of the French battleship Richelieu.
Lovely; a small point you don't say "The" HMS Agincourt, just HMS Agincourt; otherwise you are saying "The Her Majesty's Ship Agincourt" which is, of course, ungrammatical...
As the ship was being refit for the Turks, some of the construction people noticed that all of the labeling for the ship had writing on both sides of the plates. One was Turkish, the other, English. The contractors were told to say nothing.
It was standard practice among most or all British yards building ships for export to have the plates labeled in English on one side. How else were English-speaking yard personnel supposed to know which plate went where?
Turns out Wargaming has a distinct reluctance to put premiums at tier 4. If they can do enough with the soft stats to make a ship tolerable at tier 5, it's a lot easier to sell a ship that qualifies to play daily missions and events in.
Those corked up German ships were crewed by Germans, so they were't really Turkish ships at all. BTW is there a review on pagoda mast battleships? The forecastle's on those blighters got jolly high.
the turks were really pissed when their ships were seased by the brits, one reason more for joining the german side after the Goeben and Breslau were send to Turkey. well done GB :)
@@tomriley5790 without this insult Turkey had maybe stayed neutral or joined the Brits side Many lives lost and britain had messed the whole Region up with Sykes Picot Treatm. and Balfour decl. Nothing lost, say that to an ANZAC ;)
Did you miss the part about the secret Ottoman-German treaty that had been signed? The treaty that stipulated that the Ottomans would join the war on Germany's side? Sure the seizure of the ships drummed up public support for the war but the brits were gonna have to fight the Ottomans anyway so why the hell would they give them shiny new battleships that they could then use to kill british merchantmen?
