HMS Indefatigable - Guide 182 

Pinned post for Q&A :)

Ah yes, the three Indefatigable Class: HMS "I screwed up everything then detonated twice at Jutland" Indefatigable, HMS "I ram things" Australia, and HMS "Divine Protection 101" New Zealand.

Closed flash doors❌ Not stacking ammo in the turrets❌ Good quality shells❌ Well trained gunners❌ Maori skirt and pendant✅

HMS Indefatigable- "I tire of this mortal existence, I shall now distribute myself across the water in spectacular fashion" Meanwhile HMS New Zealand is doing it's dead level best to challenge each ship in the High Seas fleet to single combat. With the Captain doing a Maori war dance on the bridge wing. And HMS Australia is in the hospital for warships with a desire to ram things.

The virgin steel armor plating vs *the Chad Maori pendant and warrior's skirt divine protection*

The hei-tiki and piupiu (The Maori terms for the pendent and skirt) are available for public viewing at the Torpedo Bay Navy Museum in Davenport, Auckland along with other items from HMS New Zealand like the ships bell and the chunk of armour that was knocked off at Jutland.

7:46 "A collision between Australia and New Zealand during anti-submarine manoeuvres..." I'm betting they both pegged that sub as a rugby ball, and just went for it... 🏉😂🇦🇺🇳🇿

I have some photos from the Scuttling of HMAS Australia and HMS Hood in Sydney Harbor on the day. These photos are not in the National Archives as they were take by a relative

I have been looking forwards to this video for a VERY long time, as a Kiwi. I don't know if our national anthem was sung when HMS New Zealand set sail from our country, but the final line (in English) is "God Defend New Zealand." Apparently, he did.

Sprig 1919, Grand fleet dispatched en masse to Auckland for "armour" upgrades. New RN captain's uniform regulations issued.

"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today"- Adm. Beatty seeing his own fleet going up in flames

My great uncle Albert served on New Zealand, when I was a kid he used to tell me about his experiences ..he was at all the major engagements with New Zealand and told me they were classed as a lucky ship, having only one hit on the turret ring of a turret that jammed it at the time. He told me how he had witnessed the other battle cruisers exploding, one them was astern of them and he saw the keel come out the water and then the ship basically disappear. ...he said he was in the crows nest at Jutland listening to the shells fly by .....he was a great old gent, I was fortunate to meet him. My grandmother had 4 brothers, Albert in the navy, and three who joined the army. Two had emigrated to America, but came back to join up, and fortunately they all survived the war.

Imagine how doomed Hipper's I Scouting Group would've been had HMS New Zealand been that proto-Lion design yet still carried the Maori gear.

I never knew HMS New Zealand existed, and now I do, I'm pleased to hear that she was the most successful out of the three.

On todays video: Fischer speedruns the battleship history on paper

For those of us in Oz with a naval history bent, the fact that HMAS Australia missed Jutland because of a “bingle” with HMS NZ is a source of intense chagrin for the last 104 years. Made even worse by our intense rivalry in all things sporting!! Thanks again for another great Guide 👍

Ahhh, warships. Part of this balanced breakfast.

The brits sure knew a lot of adjectives for ship names.

Fisher: Speed will be their armor! Beatty: There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today. Fisher was brilliant, up until the point that he was non-brilliant enough to give Beatty a good quote.

A bio special on Fisher might be interesting...

The last time I was this early there were Japanese torpedo boats.

The battle cruiser worked just fine against armored cruisers (just ask Admiral von Spee). Unfortunately, putting them up against other battle cruisers or (gasp) dreadnaught battleships was basically suicidal.

So the X designs would have been nice, if money was available.

Opened youtube at the best time

Fisher needs more medals.

Like New Zealand's divine pendant and skirt, the Admiralty should have provided Idefatigable with Sir Edward Pellew's Cocked Hat and Sword, like relics from a saint, since he had great fortune with the sailing frigate of the same name. Of course, It also wouldn't have hurt if they had kept the magazine doors shut during battle.

Horatio Hornblower as captain of course! What a brilliant name

"It's alright, he's wearing it!"

What Happened to Wednesdays Rum Ration!?!?!? "You can't get rid of the rum ration! There in lies mutany and madness" -Drachinifel Drydock 083

"... colision between New Zealand and Australia..." oh the irony...

Should be standard practice for all RN, RNZN & RAN ships to be blessed by a Tohunga and provided with Maori Hei-tiki [Maori pendant] & Piupiu [Maori skirt] for protection. Powerful medicine..!

HMS Unpronounceable

As a Kiwi, I approve of this video. Good job!

loved the back story, thanks, and the reappearance of admiral fisher

Thank you for posting up this class, especially HMS New Zealand. Much appreciated.

Fisher to parliament. Oh come on. Just one little tiny battleship. Please, please please please please. Parliament. All right. But just the one. Fisher. Just popping out to see the Australians and New Zealanders.

Interesting to see photos of the battlecruisers in Vancouver harbour. I would hazard a guess that very few Vancouver residents have seen those pictures or are even aware that any of these ships paid a visit.

IIRC, the good people of New Zealand only paid the debt for that ship off in 1952.

I believe for New Zealand as well she had a special jewel encrusted wheel that replaced the normal wheel in battle further adding to her invincibility.

I was reading a book about the USS Marblehead in World War II. It may be interesting to review what happened to this ship in World War II. I enjoy all your posts and look forward to them.

Finally, my favourite battlecruisers have their video

In•de•fat•ig•ab•le. The name is as long as the ship.

Great video!

When I hear “indefatigable “ at that time period, I tend to add on “...at work upon the machines they were making”

Your dry sense of humour is much appreciated by me. Personally, I think ALL British battlecruisers were almost useless (I call the Hood a 'fast battleship'). The Germans did them right in that they armored them well enough to stand up to big guns for a at least a little while. I think it complete madness to build a major warship with armor that could not even begin to stand up to their own guns.

@Drachinifel: A suggestion, my grandfather served on the R-Class destroyer HMS Romola in WW1. All we know of his service was that he was at Scarpa Flow when the German fleet was scuttled. It would great to find out more about this and the role of similar smaller warships in WW1.

Great videos. Very much enjoy them. Always wondered what are the , what looks like pipes at a 45 degree angle a;ong the sides of ships of this period.

More like HMS, "Wait, are those the boilers, and why are they flying over the crow's nest?"

Drachinifel, Just subscribed but enjoying for a long time. Thanks!!! Know about the "Terrible Twins"? The "Flores" and "Soemba" make up a nice story, I think. Keep up the good thing and don't burn out!, dimitri

I feel like this class needs a guide for each ship

I was hoping to see a video on the aircraft carrier indefatigable as my grandfather served on that. During midway he was a petit officer on her

Very informative, thanks,

Well, those charms worked effectively, can our next capital ship come equipped with a _patu_ and _korowai?_

I remember finding a photo of HMS Indefatigable alongside RMS Olympic and boy oh boy Indefatigable is small but still a sight

Indefatigable’s spare screw is on display in a quirk of history at the War Memorial in Canberra. I wrote an article about it which may interest folks here: www.awm.gov.au/articles/blog/HMAS-Australia-Screw

I think the British battlecruisers of WW1 are just beautiful looking ships.

Wow Drach, way to burst our bubble in Aus. I'd always thought of HMAS Australia as a tier 1 capital ship, the terror of the Pacific, whose existence scared all but the most badass Kriegsmarine cruiser ever away. While I knew it liked to ram things, didn't realise the design was a kludge.

Oh heck yes!!

That must have been one big skirt.

Maori divine protection works... Hey, another franchise product with potential Drach! ^.^

I'm not convinced that the collision was an accident. I can easily see our kiwi boys say hold my beer and watch this.

Pronounce Blucher like 'Blusher ' named after the Prussian General at battle Waterloo 👍 great videos 👊

Many years ago on a Haze Grey forum I asked why did some ships have a reputation for running into things. One of the responses was from an Australian who said both times the Australia was not at fault, and that the maneuvers were new and complicated. He also noted that the lack of any underwater protection meant a lot of flooding occurred and this was corrected during repairs. He did not elaborate. Basically these ships were true "tinclads" and should never had been built as they were not even armored against the 6-to-9in guns of the very ships they were designed to hunt down. The supposed advantage of longer range meant nothing as the Battle of the Falklands showed, they couldn't hit the German ships until they closed the range.

That's an interesting name which would give the French a good laugh. In French "Indefatigable" means something like "unable to recover from fatigue": "in" followed by "de" forms a double negative. 😉

Is anyone going to discuss the vegemite vs. marmite dispute that may nor may not have been the real reason for the two ships colliding?

Horatio Hornblower fans might recognize the name.. the earlier HMS Indefatigable was an unusually large frigate that was a cut-down ship of the line that made quite a name for herself during the Napoleonic Wars. She was the first one of the name I'd come across.

My 3x great uncle was onboard this when it went down at Jutland, Francis (or Francisco if you use the maltese spelling) Mamo B. 1889-1916.

Any Chance that you could make a video on some of the other Royal Australian Navy ships? like HMAS Sydney's sister ships or a video on the infamous steam powered K-Boats of the Royal Navy?

Man, Australia was a bruiser of a warship. I imagine when she joined a formation the rest of the ships shied away just a bit!

is there a jump in Audio for anyone else at 4:29 ? love the video and the work!

scuttling Australia was a cock up of major proportions.

According to the crews some of the crews are still alive i heard their comments on the battle of okinawa

The USS Indianapolis would be an interesting study.

Thanks for another guide Drach While many criticize these ships compared to Von Der Tann, they ignore tha fact they were designed before the German ship was even a gleam in the ship builders eye. Germany had tha massive advantage of seeing what the British had built and designing to counter that. And they were only meant for short duration deployments meaning they were uncomfortable to seve in long term but acceptable for limited voyages.

I wonder what it been like if they went with the proto-lion design proposed by fisher instead of the Indefatigable-class

Hello , Kindly look into doing a Guide on the Crown Colony Class Cruiser HMS Nigeria penant number 60...........she is named for Nigeria who gained independence on October 1st 1960 and we are 60 years old this year. So a lot of 60s.......... and she was part of a team that captured an Enigma Machine and code books........Thanks in advance

Have you ever thought about doing a ship’s guide to the RN’s proposed Incomparable class BCs-That was the proposed class name, wasn’t it? The plan I remember was for a huge (almost 300 meter long) lightly armored battle cruiser with a top speed of around 35 knots & six 20” guns.

Dear Dr Drach do you have any detailed plans or views of torpedo installations in cruisers and battleships?

Poor Australia. She would have been a nice museum. At least she wasn’t scrapped I suppose.

Fisher trying to rush the battlecruiser tech-tree

Around 1909 there was a public debate in Canada over a proposal that Canada would contribute to the defense of the Empire by paying the cost to build and operate one battleship.

There seems to be some debate regarding the photo of her sinking. Apparently the debate centres around the angle of sight and apparent retouching of the photo. Still an interesting presentation, thanks.

Now that's what i call some potent juju! !:-) 🖖

The Imperial Conferences themselves were generally rather interesting. Canada and Australia both originally desired to build relatively small fleets of torpedo boats and destroyers for local trade and coastal protection however once they arrived at the conferences, Britain pitched their "fleet unit concept to the Dominions. The Admiralty would state, "A dominion government desirous of creating a navy should aim at forming a distinct fleet unit; and the smallest unit is one which, while manageable in time of peace, is capable of being used in it’s component parts in time of war. The advantage of a unit of this kind if that it is capable of rapid combination with other similar fleet units. We have now, as you know, in the far east, the eastern fleet. There are three divisions, the Australian division, the China division, and the East Indies division. In the case of Canada also we think that the fleet unit might in the future form an acceptable system, particularly with regards to the Pacific. If we had another fleet unit of this kind on the Pacific coast of Canada we should have, under circumstances under which they could be easily united, no less than four of these divisions, and they would together constitute a very powerful fleet." The fleet units themselves were to consist of a 1 Invincible class battlecruiser, 3 Town class cruisers, 6 destroyers, 3 submarine and the necessary auxiliary support ships. It was projected this unit would require upwards of 2,300 personnel and would require an initial overall cost of £3,700,000 plus another £600,000 for annual operations. The Admiralty wished to have Australia and Canada adopt this scheme and for New Zealand, it wasn't clear as they could not actually man any of these ships effectively. Regardless though, the point of these fleet units was to allow the Admiralty to focus their fast capital ships at home to deal with German instead of having to "waste" these ships to defend trade routes and keep Japan in line. While Australia eventually funded and operated a full fleet unit plus New Zealand funding a battlecruiser, Canada never would. The main reason why this never happened was politically motivated. Prime Minister Wilfred Laurier had been very gradually building support for a self defense orientated navy however, this fleet plan blew the doors wide open. Firstly, the scheme was rather expensive and very personnel intensive. Secondly, all of the warships would likely be built in Britain, something that for anybody familiar with Canadian politics, is a big no no. Depriving local industry of work was a major political concern. Third and most of all, procuring such a massive fleet unit only to station it "out in the sticks" of the West Coast would have been political suicide as almost all of Canada's population resides on the East Coast or in central Canada. Building such a large navy and having the general public never see it would be disastrous and at the same time, splitting the unit between both coasts would diminish it's effectiveness. Having a fleet unit for each coast was proposed but quickly throw out as impossible. Fourth and finally, the original fleet of destroyers and torpedo boats was chosen for a political reason. French Canadians were very much worried about the Canadian Navy being used to help imperial war efforts overseas and drag Canada into any British wars, these parties had immense sway in Canadian politics. In the end, Laurier moved to upgrade his plans to a fleet unit, although the Canadian fleet unit was to consist of 6 Acorn-class destroyers, 4 Weymouth-class cruisers and 2 older cruisers to be used as training platforms. All of these ships besides the pair of old surplus Royal Navy cruisers would be built domestically in Canada. In the end though, this plan completely doomed the Royal Canadian Navy. A fleet of cruisers angered the French Canadians due to their long range that could be used to assist the Empire aboard. The Imperialists/Contributionists lampooned this scheme as not being enough to properly assist the Empire itself, calling for a fleet unit or massive cash donation to the Royal Navy. The only party happy with this solution was the figures pushing for an independent Royal Canadian Navy. In the end, the Conservatives (Imperialists/Contributionists) joined forces with the French Canadians to eventually kick Laurier out of power in the next election and completely scrapped any plans for the Royal Canadian Navy until they would later unsuccessfully attempt to provide the funds for the trio of Queen Elizabeth class battleships, ironically because Laurier's tenure in power still meant he had effectively complete control over the Canadian Senate.

hey drach, this video appears twice in the battlecruisers playlist, just a heads up to add to a to-do list somewhere ;)

There was quite a dose of hubris baked into these ships.

I feel like Indefatigable is THE quintessential name for a Royal Navy warship.

One of the best RN ship names ever! (watches video) SO, what's the Latin for "I came, I fought, I exploded"?

The German gun crews where too busy trying to work out what New Zealand's captain was wearing, that they forgot to fire.

And the New Zealand Government, finished paying for, HMS New Zealand in 1945.

Have you done any published work on Railways use in Warfare? Perhaps supply chain management?

I wonder if the stretching & skimping on armor was common knowledge or kept hush hush so enemy wouldn't know where to aim ?

For a brief moment I was thinking about Hornblower. Then Maori parafernalia appear!

@drachinifel As a relative newbie to this water bourne tank thing, could you explain this cross-deck firing term you use. I've looked in a couple of places, it mentions the use of cross-deck firing, but not what it actually means

Some say hms new Zealand fired up to 430 shells during the battle of jutland. Truly astonishing.

Minor pronunciation note, remember that V in German is almost always pronounced like F. Exceptions are mostly only loandwords like 'Pulver'.

Wow! Other than referring to a ship as "it" instead of "she", which would cause Nelson as much anguish as it does, me, this was an excellent video... as always. Question: I typically carry a Smith and Wesson 442 revolver for personal protection. Where can I obtain Maori protection gear to replace, or at least supplement my little snub nose .38?

I think Fisher's preference for lightly armoured battlecruisers was a symptom, not of the under appreciation of the usefulness of armour, but of his priorities that commerce frigate warfare was what was of most concern, not the German battle fleet.

Arrrra! My old school TS Indifatagable. The school was shit too.

Make a video about NMS Mărășești