"Good morning gentlemen, the temperature is 110°--" "HOLY SHIT, IT'S VIPER!!!!" You know you're awesome when someone cuts off your weather report at the first sound of your voice
Probably still my favorite line in the entire movie, "The Defense Department regrets to inform that your sons are dead because they were stupid!" I don't care what anyone says, Goose was the best character in the film.
@@GKwan111 Actually no, because as the back seater Goose should have been watching their tail as Maverick engaged Viper. Had he been doing so, he would have see Jester sneaking up on them. So, they were both stupid and failed in their respective roles.
@@ImpendingJoker I understand your point. I placed the emphasis on Maverick not staying with his wingman and dealing with Jester first, then they could go after Viper. Goose was trying to convince him to do this.
I like how this dogfight allowed Viper to cross off a lot of things on his checklist like A. The obvious in teaching Maverick to never leave his wingman. B. Helped Viper get a true gauge of Maverick’s inherent talent. C. Have some fun as it was probably the first time in a hot minute that he had a good dogfight.
So the issue is a lot of this is just kinda wrong, as much as I love the movie. "Don't leave your wingman" is useless. It makes your two ship flight into essentially 1 ship. Viper and Jester flew more like actual wingmen. Hollywood had Jester lined up, should have been a simple kill with Sidewinder or guns. Meanwhile Viper was free to maneuver behind them. If Maverick stayed with Hollywood, all that would happen is Viper would get behind them both as they both chase one target and easily kill both. These kinds of tactics are often pursued in various combat simulators. One pilot can fly entirely defensive as bait, while the other can kill any and all bandits who tunnel vision on the bait. If no one places pressure on the hunter, then they can freely engage. Another thing, the "Targeting" they show in this is complete Hollywood creation. Mav states he selected a "Sidewinder," aka a short range heatseeking missile. He was rear-aspect to the target, meaning the missile seeker would easily find and lock on the hot drive plume from the Skyhawk in front, and almost immediately he would hear "tone" from the growling of the missile seeker confirming it had an effective lock. The "maneuver a crosshair onto the target" bit is only applicable for getting a computer-assisted target lead for guns, and is certainly not what they were trying to depict here. Now, the sequence is cute and fun, but it's hardly a realistic outlook on the realities of dogfighting. Still one of my favorite movies though.
Personally, I see "Don't leave your wingman" more as "Don't abandon your wingman to their fate". Even though Viper and Jester were separated, they weren't truly isolated, those two still had a game plan and a means of helping each other out. Hollywood was left vulnerable when Maverick ran off to do his own thing and neither party communicated afterwards. That's why Maverick got 'shot' here. Maybe if Maverick was more like "Hollywood, I'm gonna go scare off Viper so he can't get behind us.", I'm sure Hollywood and Goose would've been a bit more understanding. He nearly made the same mistake at the end of the movie, briefly disengaging while Iceman was surrounded by 5-6 Migs.
@@godofunity2612 The issue is what I outlined before. If Maverick stays on his wingman, it's the worst possible decision to make short of fully abandoning the fight and fleeing. You say "leaving him to his fate." Staying off his wing is dooming both of them to Viper. Maverick actually does the correct thing here. The issue is Hollywood who apparently can't close out a kill and got reversed, with zero radio communication.
@@Kerenskyz15 In the long term, you're definitely right. But the way Maverick went about it? Eh, not so much. "Who was covering Cougar, while you were showboating with his MiG?" is what sums up the character in this scene, and Goose knows it. He's willing to go off on his own to engage an enemy, at the expense of leaving his wingman to their own devices. Would Cougar end up getting a mid-flight PTSD Attack if Mav didn't split off from him against the two MiGs in the opening scene? As for Hollywood failing to kill Jester? Either he was too focused on Maverick leaving him or Jester did "some of that pilot shit" when it was just the two of them. Maybe a combination of both. The lack of communication between the two didn't help either of them, which you're also right on. "I'm going after Viper" is a bit different from "I don't want Viper getting behind us." Tl;dr Maverick made a smart call for a pretty selfish reason.
@@Kerenskyz15 yeah and I wonder how much NAVAIR and SPAWAR demanded obfuscation of capabilities... it's pretty glaring that in a whole franchise about F-14s the only mention of AIM-54 was the callsign of that one babe in the second film. Tomcats-- Anytime Baby!
Even if you arent a fan of the backstory to this movie you need to understand this was one of the first movies based on aerial combat that wasn't a bunch of stock footage from the Vietnam Era. They actually had military pilots fly them up for filming. It was very well constructed and believe it or not... They did it all without Final Cut Pro.
Fun fact: Tom Skerritt/Viper was 52, going on 53 at the time of Top Gun's release in 1986. Tom Cruise is 56 and will have just turned 57 upon the supposed release of the sequel next year.
The fact that Viper recognizes Mavericks skills as a pilot when he says "Dam this kid's good" is all that needs to be said about how much of a badass pilot Maverick truly is but none of his Superior Officers except for Viper would ever admit that.
The aggressor were flying A-4 Skyhawks... Those birds are small, fast and nimble, they can pick Tomcats apart in a 1v1 dogfight. Their whole strategy was built around separating the F-14s...
Jester and Viper got way better teamwork. In a rate fight the a-4 would have gotten behind the f-14 in no time. The best chance to win in a dogfight for the f-14s is to stay together but Viper and jester took care of that.
@@KJ-kn8pg Yup, that was their plan. Break when the Tomcats approached, and try to force a head to head fight. Jester knew he could beat Hollywood no problem, as did Viper. The wild card was Maverick, since Mav was very unpredictable. But, if they knew that if they dangled the worm, they'd hook that fish no problem, and that's what they did. On top of the lesson of never leaving your wingman, it's also a lesson in how not to let the enemy dictate the terms of the engagement. If all you're doing is reacting to what the enemy is doing, eventually they'll wear you down, and beat you.
A-4's are fast, light, and maneuverable, great perks in a dogfight. F-14's were never made to dogfight, but to engage at a distance with powerful radar and long-range missles. Viper and Jester had a plan the whole time, and played the plane's strengths and weaknesses.
Viper preyed on all of Maverick's weaknesses, while testing Maverick's skill as a pilot. He knew Maverick was a cowboy, and needed to teach Maverick a lesson about teamwork. Viper understands the Skyhawk's maneuverability, so he bounces all over the place(The A-4's agility and speed earned it the nickname 'Scooter'.) He never moves in a straight line, and by constantly turning and changing his position, the Tomcat can't acquire a lock. By Viper constantly shifting his position, Maverick has to make adjustments in a much heavier plane(The F-14 is over 3x heavier than a Skyhawk) to try to keep the A-4 in sight and give it time to get a tone. All the while, Viper knows that Jester got Hollywood(now corrected from originally Iceman, and thank you to those who provided the helpful corrective comments!), and he is waiting for Jester to come behind Maverick and take him out for abandoning a teammate for the sake of trying to be a hot shot. Musashi once said, "know your man, know his sword." Viper knows the F-14's strengths and weaknessness, and knew the overall mentality of the pilot in it. Those things also contributed to Maverick losing.
All Mav had to do was keep viper on radar, he didn't need to follow his every move. And the tomcat can compete with the Skyhawk maneuverability, the a4 is just squirrely.
"keep Viper on radar"... It is not as simple as that. In Top Gun, pilots use radar only to find each other at a DISTANCE.. when they meet head on, the main radar is turned off and pilots must rely on sight to keep track of their target. The HUD(Heads Up Display), which is used to lock onto a target(using the green target icon), is not part of the AWG-9's radar at all. Also, it is part of RIO's job in the Tomcat to provide a second pair of eyes so the pilot can focus on a target and not have to focus too much on potential threats from behind. That is another reason why the Tomcat has a two man crew, rather than one. Another thing: Maverick wasn't trying to follow Viper's every move... He was trying to get the angle for a gun lock. As Maverick said, "he's too close for missiles, I am switching to Guns." Viper was bouncing around all over the place while being pursued, which is why the radar couldn't acquire a Missile lock in the first place, even at a distance optimal for a Missile lock. By Viper luring Maverick in close, and having him switch to Guns, Viper used the A-4 to outmaneuver Maverick and bide his time for Jester to come up from behind and get a lock on Maverick. If all an F-14 pilot needed was to keep radar on a target, an A-4 would be 'shot down' before even seeing the Tomcat. The movie kept the true power of the Tomcat's AWG-9 Radar secret from most of the public. The AWG-9 radar had a range of over 90 miles, could track 24 targets simultaneously, and engage 6 simultaneously. The Phoenix/Sparrow missile switch was not used in the Top Gun program, since the Tomcat could use a Phoenix or Sparrow to engage an A-4 long before even meeting head on and way out of the A-4's missile range.
You've got a point. The F-14 could've engaged miles out with its radar. But still think there are plenty of moments were he could of used his guns. and made some sort of decent shot. Now, I'm not a tomcat pilot, but I'm still a pilot. And it is also kind of Goose's fault. You're right, the RIO does check behind, but he obviously didn't. And also in that situation, I assume they were on the same freq. as Hollywood, and hearing them go quiet would've been somewhat of a clue.
This beast has an unforgettable place in Iranians heart because of how it has fought and destroyed more than 140 Iraqi fighters and bombers which were used to kill our people for 8 years.
@@TheNefastor His issue is that 20% of F-14s ever built ended up killing themselves in wrecks and costing taxpayers billions, so yeah I guess that could be called taking your lunch money
Maverick: "I'm going after Viper." *Pulls stick and slams the throttle.* 1:45 *Music plays.* I lost it at that part. I really felt how much of a cowboy Maverick was.
"Come on! Come on! Come on! Keep coming! KEEP Coming!" -Viper. I love how Viper pushes the action, even though he is holding back for the sake of trapping Maverick.
And his remarks about Maverick being good, was his realization that Maverick almost got him anyway. But I didn't realize until after enlisting that Viper was merely bait the entire time to see if someone bailed for him (which occured)
@@crazyman7671 exactly, Viper was the bait. But that wasn't maverick's mistake, the mistake was him and Hollywood stopped talking the moment they split. Chasing Viper off was the right move, but getting fixated was the wrong one. Had they kept talking, when Hollywood got in trouble he should have called Maverick back to cover him. Merely sticking on Hollywoods wing would have left Viper to come up behind both of them and engage. You can't cover your wingman if you are also been engaged from the rear. You cover your wingman by proactively preventing threats, not by been a passive sheild. 2v1 sticking together is the right tactic, 2v2 however you need to be aware of both enemy aircraft and be actively preventing them engaging you. Especially if they have the superior dog fighting aircraft as was the case here.
@@cgi2002 yep and especially later. If you noticed after Goose died, their next HOPs had 3 aircraft and we never saw the final one (unless that was it, or merely to get Maverick back mentally), that could have had 4 and then the final conflict that starts with 5 and then 6 aircraft
@@jamesdick2580 but if you ever mentored someone, you know your prodigeè mentee always test you ....always needling you to make you opens all your "cards". And you will get urge to beat them up.😂😂😂
Those Top Guns guys flew a revised Skyhawk so changed that they changed its name, calling it a Martlet. They flew it clean and bolted the slats up (I think). Light and flown clean the Scooter was a good fighter and a ball to fly!
I like how Maverick was like "Leaving your wingman is a technique that I haven't seen in awhile" in topgun 2, flashback 30 years ago when he left hollywood, and hangman is like him, 30 years younger. How Viper beat Maverick is like how Maverick beat Hangman
damn right it was well done! i heard that the Navy actually authorized one launching of a live missile for the film. the crew of the film did such a good job of reusing the footage of the missile launch that the Navy launched a full investigation and found that there were no unauthorized launches.
during close up shots of maverick and goose inside the cockpit, i believe that they used the green screen. but during outside shots, those were really pilots doing stunts with the planes.
What about the scene in the final dogfight? Where they reuse the clip that makes you think (both times) that they're all going to collide Was that legitimate? I'm genuinely interested, I know I sound sarcastic.
@@imadrifter It's not to "keep up", it's to get their airspeed up to where it needs to be in a hurry. Doesn't matter if they're fighting a MiG-29 or a helicopter. Afterburner isn't for going fast, it's for gaining energy.
A veteran F/A/18 Super Hornet pilot once recalled that smaller fighter jets like the F-16 made it an incredibly difficult target due to its high manoeuvrability, agility and agile turning radius. The F-14D Super Tomcat was a real 'beast' according to him when he first faced it in the Hornet. The key to beating the Super Tomcat is to keep up with it in a dogfight because once you take your eyes of him, it will disappear and hit back at you from out of nowhere due to its superior acceleration and upgraded avionics. It was the only time when he acknowledged that the Hornet has finally met its match besides the F-16s and F-15s.
Indeed, the F-14D could have been adapted to meet required challenges for the US Navy in the later decades. It might even be the Marine answer to the Air Force's venerable F-15EX.@@Spanishfutbol2010
In the area between Owens Valley and Death Valley is a great place for these aerial war games. The veranda at Panamint Springs Resort is a relaxing viewing stand.
Now the Viper is Maverick in Top Gun 2. Dope scenes the way Maverick entered the fight in the middle of two aircrafts classic maverick move for sure haha
One thing I really like about these shots, filmed with real A-4s and F-14s, is that when they show the two together chasing Viper's tail, you really get a good look at just what an absolute chonker the F-14 really is.
The F-14 is a fucking huge plane. The only planes to rival it in size are the Thunderchief, Blackbird/Oxcart, and Delta Dart. The Skyhawk is a relatively tiny plane, yet very light and nimble. Fun fact: The Skyhawks used here are A-4F Mongooses, which are heavily modified and stripped down A-4Fs. The Blue Angels used similar planes. On a low fuel load, the Mongoose would have a near 1:1 thrust to weight ratio, and that's WITHOUT afterburners. I have seen pictures of A-4Ms in aggressor liveries as well, which is cool.
@@Tigershark_3082 well because Scooters never had afterburners. They lacked the internal fuel load, even without burner they were very short legged.. a Mongoose without bags and with burner, would be flaming out pretty soon and those stubby little wings make for a really shitty glider
@@starga-fr7qx I still remember the F111 if only because of it being used for the bombing of Libya the year this movie came out. Wasn't it supposed to be a true fighter-bomber and wasn't really good at either?
@@Darling137 It has the F designation, so Fighter.. and it was intended to be an Intercepter Carrier plane in the F111B with Phoenix missiles, except for the part that it was terrible behind the boat, poor performance all around, over weight.. the F111 really wasn't as succesful as a plane if you ask me.. it had fatal defects that killed many crews in the Low level flying over Vietnam, Just nose dived into the water till they found a fix for it. In my opinion, it didn't really do anything uniquely better then anything else.. It wasn't the fastest, the biggest payload, the best at LGB's , sure as he ll wasn't stealthy and it wasn't multirole anything It had good looks but it really was just a bomb truck.. in USAF designation it should have been a B-111 but they never did call it that because it would have caused a budget conflict and would have been axed before going into service
VIPER's voice matches the emblem on his helmet...Bloodthirsty and villanous the way hes luring Maverick in his trap like a true predator.. i love it ..!
The one thing that I really loved about this scene and even though it was a kid when I watched it in the early 90s and such, I didn’t really understand what was going on. But as an adult, I have to say that viper was absolutely brilliant in his strategy. Firstly, he knew that Maverick always wanted to find the top dog and go up against him. So he intentionally used himself basically his bait because he knew that Maverick wouldn’t be able to resist going against him. This actually added into a second thing. He knew that Maverick was a hotshot and he needed to be knock down a couple of pegs to learn about proper teamwork. You can also tell that viper understood the intricacies of his aircraft extremely well. The A4 Skyhawk was an extremely light aircraft and our correctly. The ones used at the actual airbase were especially modified. I believe they were given more powerful engines and they were stripped down of certain components that they , didn’t really need to make them more agile. One thing you notice in this sequence is he’s using the lightness of his aircraft to his advantage over the much heavier tomcat. The F11 tomcat is an extremely good or I should say was an extremely good jet. However, it was an extremely heavy jet as well. Using World War II terminology it would’ve been known as a “heavy fighter“. With its twin engines versus only the single one of the Skyhawk along with the fact that it had the extremely heavy swing wing assembly. With viper constantly, Jen left and right and never staying in one spot. He basically made it impossible for the F-14s target seeking unit to gain a proper lock. Because every time he moved, he knew that Maverick would have to move the tomcat and again the tomcat being much heavier was a lot more sluggish in this regard. Some people might point out how they find it kind of dumb that at the end jester chastised Maverick for leaving his wingman, and then they will probably point out that he and viper did the same. One thing that people should take in consideration though is this was done on purpose with jester and viper. Not to mention this wasn’t really that uncommon of a tactic, especially following Vietnam. The north of Vietnamese were well known for having flights split up and they would do ambush tactics and such. Especially the ones, who flew the MIG 21s. And we have to remember that Viper is a Vietnam veteran. So unlike the majority of the other instructors, it’s likely that he is the only one with actual combat experience which he uses to his advantage.
+Speedbird7771 Someday, someone somewhere will start issuing a cooler fighter than the F-14 to their air forces. But whatever that fighter turns out to be, it'll sure be one hell of a plane.
As much as I loved seeing the F-14 Tomcat growing up, the F-18 has become a favorite of mine as well. Also can not forget the F-16. Whoooo sure were some nice planes.
The F-35 is a joke of an aircraft. Even the defense analysts have said that is a bad plane, and the money spent on its development was completely wasted. It would have been better to not retire the F-14D, and give it thrust vectoring capability with super cruise, redesign the air frame to use a high percentage of carbon composites to significantly lighten its weight(possibly cut its weight in half) and make its body stronger, keep the radar which gave its legendary multi-targeting/multi-engagement capability, overhaul the cockpit with modern and more intuitive avionics, and create a lighter weight, more advanced missile near or 3/4 the range of the Phoenix but with a higher degree of accuracy.
What makes me giggle, after learning more about these aircraft over the years, is that the F-14 were so fuel-hungry that the A-4 could have beaten the F-14 on fuel alone just by being evasive and using the terrain. As a fan though, I love these scenes. The noise, music and images are like nothing else.
Two things I love about this scene: 1. Viper's A-4 moves like its dancing, completely in its element. 2. Off-screen Jester must have flipped the script on Hollywood. Would have been something to see.
"Voodoo one, Viper's on station. Your journey ends here, pilots, the skies belong to me. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide." "Beautiful Kill." "Viper's got you in the pipe, five by five." - A Legend
I was a USAF kid, but damn the F-14 was an amazing aircraft. I grew up in 80s on an AFB and it was a sacrilege to admit you liked the F-14 over the F-15!
USAF moved heaven and earth not to be forced by DOD to use yet another NAVY plane like they had been with the F4. They even got John Boyd back from Vietnam Combat command duty to unscrew the F-X program from becoming another turd fighter like the F111 had been . USAF brass was ademant they had to rescue the FX/15 and Boyd did so by running the numbers with the EM Theory data he had accumulated over the years. Boyd and everybody else at the USAF really hated the idea of the F14 that was already well ahead and despite the shitty TF30 engines, which were a stop gap measure untill the real engines were ready, the F14 almost became a twin service plane. To be honest, I don't think that would have been a bad outcome. Because then the F14 would have gotten its GE engines much sooner and with a single type the airframe would have been evolving much better cheaper. it would have gotten its precision bomb role sooner (it was designed from the start for iron bomb capability). it would have gotten amraam and aim9X the cost of the F14 program to its per plane price would have been much lower. And the USAF would neverhave had to spend money turning the F15 into the F15 strike eagle, because they would have had that from the start. All it would have taken was more avionics evolutions which well that had to be done anyway, but now instead of 2 birds evolving, it would have been just the 1 type, with the big engines, the huge loiter, the AIM 54 Running cost of the Tomcat off the carrier would have been much lower anyway so the US really wasted a lot of money because of intra service rivalry.
Well, everyone knows that you need to be a superior pilot to land on a navy CVN vs an Airforce land-based runway anyways, so, who cares about who's got the sexier fighter.
1:56 to 2:15 has to be one of the coolest sequences in movie history. My favourite part of the entire film. The shot of the F14 at 2:03 is a work of art.
Lol I used to wonder why he kept saying that since he was being chased. But now I realize he was just trying to bait Maverick so he wouldn't notice Jester get behind him.
When I was flying fighters I talked to the airplane all of the time. If flying an instrument approach I'd talk to the airplane as it lined up with the radial, or when it approached its level off altitude.
Too expensive for mentaince... Stupid decision, f 15 for bvr, f/a-18 for navy, f16 for close dogfights and f 22 and f 35 for stealth. No need of f14s....
