My other Civic is a 91 HB with a ZC. The driveline I replaced the ZC with has over 223,000 miles on it and is still running in a friend's CRX. All I've done is a few basic mods, LSD, IHE, high flow cat and an ECU reflash. The car easily keeps up with the older Cobalt SS and the whole thing cost me less than $5K, including the cost of the car. I can't imagine what a B18C or even a B16 is like in that car. Honda engines are amazing, that's all there is to it.
@madjimms How would you recommend harvesting the fuel? Many street cars use EGR to lower emissions but in F1 the amount of unburned fuel leaving the exhaust is small enough that it isn't worth it.
I was comparing this with Renault. I think I figured out why the Renault blows more flames. They run it rich when it's off throttle to keep the valves cool. Which is why they've done well.
@sebapeluca I agree with you about the lifters, but I thought vtec (at least early models like the CR-X and Integra) uses just two cam profiles? So essentially you'd feel it "kick in" when the engine switches to the high speed cams at above 7000rpm? I don't know whether they've gotten advanced enough to have progressive cams (rather than just two profiles) nowadays though...
@madjimms it would all come down to a large number of factors, but one of them would be that the hot air from the exhaust is far less dense then the cold air going in, colder air produces more power has there is more oxygen in the same volume. Not to mention you would gain no power advantage even if you ignored the heat issue, you'd just save on petrol, and I doubt thats high concern for F1 :)
@lokinhosk7 Because that's what racing engines are like, they have very thin pistons, rev very high, and need a lot of maintenance. They need to be rebuilt or replaced often.
Honda still holds the WR for most powerful F1 engine set in the Turbo era. Now that Turbo V6s are coming back, they should just re entere and just update the materials.
F&F has nothing to do with anything. I've never seen the movies and absolutely never will. Honda engines got a reputation for being such well built engines because they are. I have a '93 Civic CX with 309,000 miles on it that I drive everyday. It has never had any major problems, it gets 42+ mpg, is pretty nice to drive and shows absolutely no sign of ever having any kind of problem. Honda's amazing reliability is one place the enthusiasm for Honda engines comes from.
@Warblade118 Yes, THAT is what I have been advocating, and THAT IS a peaky power band. Oh, and it's not Flat at the top btw, it has minor rises and falls. A wide or flat curve, has a STEADY increase, right from the start....through to its peak...there's a bit of a change in the slope of the line...but not much....a peaky power band has a GRADUAL increase from the start, then a sudden jump (i.e. extreme change in the slope of the line) to its peak power.
@Warblade118 It is largely due to the Civic's superior chassis....but a LOT of it has to do with the peaky powerband, which allows the Civic to enter turns even faster, gaining it enough distance that the Mustang's power advantage isn't enough for it to catch up to and pass the Civic's on the straight stretches. Bottom line: a peakier power band allows for more effective engine braking into corners....which means faster entry speeds. Hopefully you're finally starting to grasp this...if not...
You have to look at the total engine and drivetrain package. The rear end gearing acts as a multiplier as HP is Work over a specific amount of time (RPM)
@mageac also i noticed that they aren't using turbos to produce those 800hp. I don't know what that thing is on the intake ports...i'm thinking itbs or possibly a supercharger?
@themuzer Actually, Fiat was the pioneer of Variable Valve Timing "the muzer" But the V-Tech system on Honda is bullet proof. The Europeans make it, the Japanese improve it. And LMF5000 i believe you are right about the early Honda CR-X. No mater what anyone says, at 18 3/4 thousand rpm, this Honda motor sounds superb.
@fourOHtwo This video is old, they run 2.4L V8s now, all motor. Aside from the balancing It's the smaller displacement that allows for such high revs. These engines don't have valve springs either, they have a pneumatic system. Formula One cars run on petrol, the specification of which is not that far removed from that used in regular road cars. The engines make around 780hp. Rumors are that after the engine development freeze is lifted, the next engines will be 1.5L twin turboed 4 cylinders.
HP is just a measurement of work done. HP is a function of "torque" and RPM. The more of either torque or rpm, means more HP. Now torque can be viewed as the "exploding" force upon a piston (and thus crankshaft), and given they're both running on pump fuel the amount of torque you get from a "street" V8 is about the same as an F1 engine. So given the torque is the same (almost), then obviously they need to generate HP by increasing RPM. And they do - 18k rpm in f1 this yr. Wiki pneumatic valves"
It would be fun to drop something like this in an S2000. I don't know if the engine bay would be large enought tho. But still, it's like a 2.4 liter V8. Stick a Rev limiter on that thing and then the S2000 would be a total rocket.
You would have to do fairly regular overhauls yes. But if the HP/RPM are reduced, say 500HP @ 10,000 RPM, longevity is greatly increased. It's the CONSTANT run up to 18k that kills em. Georg Plasa figured this out, and built a 320 E36 chassis with a Judd V8. reliable, and FAST
That engine is 100% made with magnetic enhanced charged allow metal for less vibration force against each part making it a huge magnetized engine box kept secret: I think?
Yeah, its just the nature of machines in general. As the stresses increase, the amount of life cycles decreases. These engines are under a lot of stress and thats why the amount of cycles is so much lower. I would, however, like to see how many cycles the engine goes through at max revs and compare it to a normal engine at say 2500 revs and compare the life of the engines then. Food for thought.
Honda/Acura have a low displacement V8 coming out soon. Now THAT is what they should offer on the S2000! A small-block, low displacement, high compression, DOHC, VTEC, V8! Maybe something essentially similar to having 2 v-mounted K24a2's! ~410 HP, ~330 TQ On a car weighing about 2900 pounds, which I think they should lighten... Sounds better than the ~240 HP, ~160TQ they offer now!
@wrp247 they have itbs, but superchargers are banned, at the time they had to be a 2.4, v8 n/a, for the 800hp part, you would have a hard time finding any 2+ liter engine at 18k rpm that had less then 800 hp... basically if you can make it spin that fast it will make power, the trick would be to make it reliable
@Warblade118 No, I understand it perfectly fine, what you're not understanding is that torque is only part of what creates horsepower (the ONLY thing that makes you go), with a peakier powerband, you have full control over both acceleration and deceleration. A wider torque band isn't the same as a smoother torque band....you can have a peaky powerband while maintaining a smoother torque band. You are apparently having issues differentiating between a smooth torque band, and a wide torque band...
actually turbines are a lot more efficient in the power to weight ratio for engines area, and they can burn almost any volatile fuel too and are more fuel efficient than piston engines. Lotus ran a turbine engined F1 car in 1971, the Lotus-Pratt&Whitney
@kylelab333221 how much did the shop charge? any idea how much the motor was? what mods had to be done? any info you can give me on this at all would be wonderful i mean ANY info at all
@numin0us True, everyone does have a civic especially here in California and only a hand full of them are actual tuners knows whats best about honda, running their civics 10seconds and under. Those are the people who knows the power to weight ratio. Not everyday you see a J32 swap civic or if possible a civic with the honda f1 race engine. Its unique. but either way, its whatever. If you build a car and not race it, then there i have a problem. Btw, i like the first gen Celica and corolla too =D
It is sad to lose the old v10's, but given the new tech they use now, they had to for safety issues. if they had 3.5 liters to work with today, I wouldn't be shocked to see f1 cars with over 1300hp.
@mikeb1444 I could just imagine, The NSX was already a ferrari 348 355 beater. Not to mention, NSX forced alot of car companies to step up there game because, for the price you couldn't argue with a car like the NSX. Such quality and passion devoted into these F1 engines. Its ashame when people actually have a team of devoted engineers promise does show. Too bad honda's today are nothing like those hard 80's n 90's days.
@CasterTown LOL I'd like to see someone using an SSC Ultimate Aero as a daily driver. LOL I don't understand why people get so butt-hurt and threatened over the fact that someone prefers a Japanese make or model. Good engineering is good engineering,no matter WHERE it comes from and credit should be given where it is due.
I like your bumblebee comment, you should enhance it to your (Angry Bumble bee) Well, I have a 97 Civic Coupe with a B18C-5 TypeR swap. Gas mileage would be 28/34 and thats being modest. Runs the quarter in 13.8 Im sure your SS makes more torque and midrange power. I happen to like the feeling of boost my self. But my Civic NA walks away from the SS during acceleration. Took an engine swap to get there, but the final product created was well worth the time and money. Drive what you like:)
quick question: what's the difference between a "street" V8 and an f1 V8? theres at least twice the horsepower in the f1 but also around half the displacement it doesnt add up in my head. ahhaha sorry, im a newb to f1
@numin0us i own a crx, which is in the same family as the civic. it would take a lot of modifying to make this work in all hondas. not to mention my car is real, i don't need to buy another car when mine works just fine.
@TheYoungTurds1 What about it? My statement about the aero is that it's hardly a daily driver. Yes, it IS faster than the Nissan and it IS impressive. What impresses me more however is that I can see someone using the Nissan on a daily basis. It has all the features you would find on a "non-track car", and yet it still outperforms just about anything you can throw at it. These are also the same reasons I'm impressed by the Veyron, not just because of it's top speed.
Any engine design has its trade offs. An F1 engine has a very narrow optimal powerband from about 16k rpm to 19k rpm. That is what they are tuned for. Lots of hp, but low on torque. Please don't freak out and say that you see rpm's dip down to 6k on some tracks or corners when they're racing.
@designer1240 Not only because of that, valve train contains pneumatic valve springs, that's the reason why they can pass magical 12,500 rpm than conventional engine without breaking.
How much do you wanna bet that that engine blew shortly after that test? Not a single engine failure in IndyCar competition, yet they blew up on an almost weekly basis at one point in F1, sometimes before the race even bagan.
First off a Stealth is a Mitsubishi re-badged as a Dodge, and second a Stealth weighs quite a bit more than a Civic. The power to weight ratio is about the same.
@gixxerfanatic No he is right because 1 revolution on the crankshaft means that any given piston have moved up and down once.. This means that at 18000rpm the math looks like this: 18000rpm/60sec = 300 times a second..
civic is nothing else but merely a weapon of choice.. it is a really light chasis therefore many use it for the sake of weight/power ratio.. the real killer is the motor thats inside it. besides with so many ricers out there owning civics its really hard to tell nowadays who actually have a beast sleeping inside the hood. I personally own a civic myself its not riced out.. I have an actual beast sleeping inside the hood :]
@Warblade118 There's an old saying in my line of work "it's never the car, it's always the driver". Meaning, the car itself, doesn't mean much, the car with a good driver....is what matters. Likewise, with a peakier powerband, which requires a good driver, will always have the advantage in most racing situations.
@Redline2695 Didn't the nsx come out in the 90's? Pretty sure there were cars with aluminum blocks and heads long before 90's. Heck, the old ZL1 back in 69 had an aluminum block and heads.
That engine is a V10,obviously the headers of the engine composed of 5 tubes,hence,it has 5 pistons each on the other side. which is clear that it has 10 pistons.
Also they don't actually use pistons made by Suzuki, they are high performance aftermarket pistons made FOR a Suzuki. Tuners just use them as an alternative to forged pistons.
What does the quantity of concrete in the foundation of the building have to do with anything? Why mention the mass of this??? As if the engine is producing enough torque to flip anything less over??
there is a new NSX coming out in 2010. I think it might be a V10, don't quote me on that though. personally I would like to see it with a high revving 4.4L V8 or something like that.
