Hookless is the way to go on mountain bikes, it was a problem in the past where the hooked alloy Stan/sunringle/dt rims don't hold up too well with the tyre bottoming out, deforming inwards. Gravel too, road cycling application on the other hand......
Let’s not forget we’ve got ceramic speed helping us replace the chain with a shaft and a cassette that wouldnt ook out of place on an Edwardian cylinder music box.
Hi from France , Well another great video, you hit the nail right on the head. I'm bias, i'm a tubular man myself,i did Paris-Roubaix on 27mm Chalenge tubulars, most of my road racing on 21mm Vittoria CX's and am curently on 25mm Vittoria Corsa's. You can alter alot with very little,just playing on the width and tyre pressure. I have nothing against tubeless tyres/rims,nor do i have anything against tyres and inner tubes,to each his own. But let's be realistic a bit,we are cyclists,we all love riding our bikes,i'm not prepared to mortage my house just to keep up with the latest trends. Another great video, you certainly have a great chanel. Cheers from France 😊
Main problem with hookless rims is that they force you to use tubeless tyres. Hooked rimes gives you a choice. Have used 25mm Pirelli and Swalbe tubeless tyres on Bontrager and Token wheels. No issues with inflating using normal track pump. I'm 63kg and run front at 70 psi and 75 psi rear. My only issue with tubeless is the sealant. It's messy to install and even messier to change. Just replaced the sealant and found 2 small slivers of metal in the rear tyre so the sealant works. However, it took me 1.5 hours to remove types, clean out old sealant, refit tyres and add new sealant. I think the real issue is one of standards and QA for both tyres and wheel manufacturers. Tempted to try tubes and sealant but some sealants (Stans Race for example) will block the valve hole as it is injected.
I still have 25mm 115 psi in my tyres and I find the bike comfortable not sure why these marketing departments say this all the time. I am a heavy rider as well so wouldn't want less than that either
Please somebody inform me when the last quality rim brake groupset nears the end of it's production run, so I can hoard. I'm so sick of this "inventive" approach to one of the simplest and most mature technologies we've ever known.
I see the latest news release on the new square wheels. Seriously, it's been determined that square wheels are actually a lot better due to the four corners improving cornering. And the flat sides make for an extremely level ride. Round wheels are obsolete. You'll wonder how you got by on those ridiculous round wheels all this time.
But then you need a system of cams to oscillate the axles and smooth the ride. Complex is always better because it fools gullible consumers into parting with their money!
Waynos your spot on. Try being 110kg and being a (20mph +) rider. I can’t run a Pirelli or Hutchinson tubeless as they can run at 90psi and they’re squirmy. I like my go4000s 25s at 110psi or Vittoria tubs. Got 15 psi spare for commuting.
Marketing hype to convince the public these are the way forward, but really it’s just a lot cheaper and quicker to produce so the companies can make more money, quicker.
I do feel it is about selling new product, if you decide to go disc, very little of your old bicycle equipment fits. Wheels, brakes, levers, including accessories, bike stands, roof racks, etc. They have even changed the handlebar stem setup and the seatposts. So all your old bikes are completely obsolete.
I was a late adopter of going to a wider tire like the 28mm. I didn't do it because I wanted to go tubeless, I'm done trying road tubeless setups because I've had nothing but bad luck, but I got these new carbon wheels and the outer measurement is 29mm. I want the tire profile to be even with the rim width. I started riding them at 100psi then went lower to 90psi and now I am down to 80psi in the back and 75psi in the front. I don't get any spongee feel but I do get a great deal more comfort and it knocks out that road buzz that wears you out on long rides. I actually like the 28mm and I never thought I would.
Tyre pressure is a big factor to how the bike rides. I am 84kg and with my backpack most likely over 90kg. I run my 23mm tubulars at 80psi front and 90psi back. The ride is really nice and smooth.
@@waynosfotos with clinchers though there’s a cornering and braking roll point where the side wall gives up if your heavy. I’ve found that all my continentals need 90 psi no matter the size (narrower a bit more to stop the pinch flat) and that a wide tyre on a narrower rim needs a bit more. 19mm rims don’t like 28s and 32s as the pinch causes the squirm so you can’t run the lower pressure. On a wider cx rim 28s are better and I can run 90 psi. Also with armour protection of something like a gator if you run low the carbon shield cuts through the sidewall. There are many challenges to low pressure riding.
@@tobycolin6271 You are correct. I did not like the feel of cornering on the wider tires so I got myself some 26mm Bontrager R3 tires and I've upped the pressure. Now the R3 is a 25mm so I got some Pirelli 26mm. I've been pumping them up to 95-100psi. The road buzz is harder though. I guess there isn't really a compromise unless like Wayne says, go tubular.
The fact that tubulars are still in production is quite astounding ! was the only way to hold a tire on a wooden rim ........Michelin and Conti engineers must really scratch their heads looking at us !.....
Because I ride tubulars and they are so comfy, if I was riding chip seal yes a good point but the rides I ride are hot mix. + to change to 28-32 tyres I need to buy new bikes new rims etc, so lots of money to be trendy and get a little more comfort. I have had bikes in the past with 30-32 tyres and to be honest, on Perth roads I noticed little difference. I also don’t like the feel in the corners when riding these softer tyres.
Rode one for a year and they're working pretty good so far, both on the road and gravel. Maybe its the low tire pressure requirement, maybe its the sealant. Maybe a combination of factors but so far so good
Good content, mate. Gotta say I really like your channel! Don't understand why everyone is aiming for lower tire pressure today, looks almost like the goal is having vacuum in the tire. I personally feel pretty comfortable with 8.5 bar on 23mm tubulars with my 88kg. Still race bikes we're on, not beach cruisers.
Tubeless/hookless is awesome! But first a couple of confessions... I come to the road from the mountain world where I have been riding tubeless/hookless carbon wheels at about 25psi for years in the gnarliest conditions. Second, I’ve never ridden on a tubular tire cause it sounds like too much hassle and a good chance of getting stranded, although to be fair I suppose that could happen to my road tubeless setup (but hasn’t yet). I recently put Zipp 303s on my bike and love them. I’m 200 pounds (91 kilos for my friends in Oz) and run them a bit over the 73psi limit, at about 80-85. While I’m no pro rider, I ride my bike like I stole it and pretty regularly find myself descending above the 50 mph (80.5 kph) mark. I also hit the turns hard and put A LOT of force through the bike and into the wheels leaning it at pretty high speeds. I’ve never had a problem with my setup and have about 2000 trouble free miles on it now, although I did puncture today (for the first time) during my A group ride and sprayed the guy behind me with sealant for a couple of revolutions til the puncture sealed without any more issue 😂. Can tubulars do that? My setup of the Zipps with Schwalbe Pro One TLEs are very easy to get on the rim (easier than my old clinchers with GP5000’s) and usually seat with my track pump and if not, then a CO2 cartridge does the trick. You’re spot on WRT the aerodynamics of running 28mm tires. They are not going to be as fast, even though the manufacturers are saying they are. Generally the manufacturers claim this from testing at a very specific set of criteria that isn’t “real world”. For aerodynamics on the road stay within the 105% rule, especially on the front wheel. I’m barely able to stay within the rule and run 25mm tires even though the Zipps have an external width of 27mm. For an extra benefit of hookless, since there is no extra rim material at the intersection of the tire and wheel, they are (very) marginally more aero than their hooked counterparts. If you don’t care about speed run 28’s. Bottom line, they’re working for me so far so I’m gonna stick with em. Cheers from SoCal...
Glad to hear it all working for you. I didn't say they don't work, only "what extra" do they offer?, You can also run sealant in tubulars too if you choose and I don't believe they are any harder to put on than tubeless. If hookless works for you keep doing it. But i still stand by my assessment hookless are not anything revolutionary.
“what extra" do they offer? Well, I wouldn’t replace a set of carbon clinchers if I already owned them because of this technology. But if I was in the market for new wheels I’d suggest having a look. I’d say the extra benefit is a slightly lighter wheel for a given design due to less material needed to make the hook, plus the savings passed onto the customer due to the easier manufacturing process. My Zipp’s were only $1300USD, a significant savings over most carbon wheels. They are by no means top of the line Zipps, but that’s barely above Chinese carbon costs. And Enve now makes a pair that are only $1600USD, ...for Enve’s. So that’s a pretty significant savings from two of the most respected manufacturers in the market. For those who say that manufacturers are solving problems that don’t exist, I roll my eyes. I get the statement and it’s frustrating when your new tech, or tech that seems perfectly fine, is suddenly being overcome by the industry. But if manufacturers didn’t try to push forward with R&D we might all still be riding penny-farthings. Cheers.
Another great video and topical discussion. As many have said below, it seems that acquired wisdom and proven technology now seems at peril because it doesn’t offer a greater return from the cycling public, or in other words, the onslaught of marketing hype is purely profit driven.
When I started in 1976, we needed something like 10 tubulars in reserve for a season and often this was not enough ......This year ,riding 28 tubeless, not only I have a faster setup .but I had one flat overall for 10,000+ km, as a bonus; my front tire is still good to start next season......good luck to find any part on my current bike that is not better than what I had in 76.... Of course bike industry is money driven ...just like any other business....this said evolution is normal .....just like resistance to change ( sorry for my bad English )
No problems with hookless yet. I run 26mm internal rim with 38mm Pathfinder Pro gravel tires @ 40 psi and do 20+ mph rides with no problems. I can drive straight and nail potholes like a monster truck while the skinny tire bikes around me squirm around every road imperfection. Now with more road oriented tubeless one downside is the sealants working at higher pressures. Many sealants hardly work as good as they should at recommended lower pressures and even worse at higher pressures.
One year later: Hookless only benefits the industry since they are MORE EXPENSIVE. There are almost no approved tires. We, non-pro cyclists, who make up 99,9999999 % of cyclists, don’t care about a 0,000000001% better wind resistance. Heavier riders, of which there are a lot, are left in the dirt with a max of 5 bars of pressure !
Thanks for the informative video, I had wondered what these were all about. I agree and really cant see what major benefits these would offer to real world riders over the existing tried and tested systems. Surely another plan to part us from more of the hard earned for stuff we probably don’t need! And why 73psi? Why not 75 or 70 🤔.
They don't have to use a flexible mandril to make hook bead rims ,but a specific six piece metal mound..high cost for mass manufacturing! Plus getting the correct lay up in the bead has a higher fail rate..its all about profit and bugger all to do with riders...plus you are stuck using brand specific tyres that cost too much! Michelin 25mm pro 4 cost 30€ and G4000 tubeless cost 68€ and don't last longer,or a few kms but not significantly more..its a con!
I wonder how tubeless tyres hold air? One review I watched explained that over the course of a long ride , the tyre with a rimless wheel was noticeably losing air?
If using carbon beads in tires , that fiber has a property called creep( elongate slightly under load). That means the tight fit to hold tire on the hookless can become looser over time. This is why the tires are easier to put on rim in subsequent mountings. Their are fibers (vetran) which don’t have this property but I don’t think they are using this in bicycle tire beads due to higher cost and poor adhesion to the tire. I would not be comfortable using hookless bead rims.
I would say they are targeting lighter riders, rim weight and quality should be better for the price. I do agree they should have made them a little wider. Still best stock carbon rims at the tcr price point!
I don't trust most of anything the cycling manufacturers have to say. Every year it's lighter, faster, stiffer, more compliant, blah, blah, blah. It's BS
Not true abt mtb… most use betw 22-27psi in enduro and trail wide tires… yes lower pressure and slightly wider tires are faster - skinnier tires don’t provide a good lenticular shape that holds wind to the rim
Lower rim weight maybe, but what about the compatible tire weight along with liquid sealant. Hydraulic friction occurs as well with the sealant moving around.
Good Tyres with Buytl tubes are still unbeaten. You can fix a puncture in less than 5 min on the roadside. With Latex it is very common to have a blowout, thats why butyl.
Sounds like hookless rims are very similar to a car tire, or similar tire, rim interface. I wonder, if a heavier riders want to have the same rolling resistance and aerodynamic benefits of a narrow tire . The hookless tire would have to be built heavier for higher pressure. So, it would a hard sell. As for now I'm very happy with the higher end, 25ml tires I put on this spring. Sofar no flats and they ride very comfortable compared to any tire I have ridden on so far.
The consumer does benefit in that he can buy a branded wheelset at around 1500 grammes for about a thousand dollars.Until hookless the only choice was cheap Chinese rims so the big boys were missing out on the upgrades as they typically supply new bikes with basic heavy wheels. I have ridden with larger tyres at 60 psi for the last few years and have has less punctures as a result. The tyre does not feel soft but molds itself on the road rather than bouncing . Once you get used to the softer feel of the low pressure and the wider rims you will be surprised that you go as fast as before if not faster..just with less vibration. Enjoy the ride
Are you sure that your lower pressures are a direct result of having less punctures? How would you know that? You can run larger tires at lower pressure with clinchers and tubes. It's quite easy - 1. buy wider tires and tubes 2. put in less pressure. Obviously you shouldn't under inflate to the point at which you pinch flat.
@@SurpriseMeJT the last frame I had would not support tyres more than 25mm and the brakes would not support wider than 17 mm rims so I sold it on ebay and got a disc brake bike to support 21mm rims and wider tyres. Compared to my experience on the previous frame i have less punctures on the lower pressure wider tyres.
@@SurpriseMeJT I agree with Peter Bee. Since going to wider 28mm tires and running lower pressures I have had way fewer flats. In fact I have not had one flat this year. Normally early on in the year there is all kinds of crap on the roads here and I would have experienced 5 or more flats.
@@wasupwitdat1mofiki94 the fact that a tire is wider does not determine how puncture proof it is. I have owned 25 bikes and have a stable of 5 currently. The least puncture prone is my 25mm wide tire. The worst was my 38mm tires. Puncture probability is more determined by casing thickness. A larger surface has a higher probability of running over something sharp.
@@SurpriseMeJT I'm not that scientific but I put the less punctures down to the lower tension in the tyre casing. I run on schwalbe pro one race tyres all year round and the local area is peppered in flints which can slash the tyre or just creep through the rubber over time. I don't think I will be returning to narrow rubber anytime soon unless I go abroad to majorca where the roads are well maintained and beautifully smooth.
If hookless was ready for the prime time masses there wouldn't be charts of acceptable and unacceptable tires w/ varying levels of risk and success. There wouldn't be a limit of 72 psi w/ certain combinations. Currently, hookless seems like a huge PITA for no benefit. I set up and ride tubeless on a 3-4 of my bikes (gravel, mtb, TT) but all w/ tubeless ready tires on hooked rims. They ride fine and are safe. Hookless doesn't seem to be there yet.
if you're wheel is in section A then you must use a tire in section M-12, subsection 2 and only below 72 psi, between Monday and Wednesday. blah blah, no thanks. Hooked wheels run tubeless just fine and at any pressure you dare.
Seems like it's just something new to make more money. Everything becomes incompatible, so now you got to replace everything, and all this new tech trying to claim is more aero, what a load of BS. Pretty sure my Ridley Noah Fast with Mad Fiber wheels is faster than anything currently on the market!
Always run above 110/120 Psi. The higher the pressure the better. On long descents where you can hit 60+mph I want a tyre that can't come off its rim due to centrifugal force. I also want to know I can stop. This new technology I feel is dangerous and designed around profit nothing else. When all is said and done 99% of cyclists arn't professional and in the real world the most important part of a bike isn't aerodynamics or the lightest bike its the engine on the saddle
Nope, i wouldn't ride them, did you hear, Bianchi couldn't even design a bike that meets the UCI rules. Well I don't trust the bike industries new tech, it takes years for them to get things sorted if ever.
