Hookless rims for road bikes rant! 

The cost savings are not passed down to the wheel buyer... so this isn't a benefit for us!

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why, using the same exact internal width rim and same exact width tires, they believe just because it's hookless, you can run 10+psi less than a tubeless+hooked setup. They just say "hookless is more comfortable because you can run less psi!" well why can you run less psi given the same inner rim width? they don't know what to say.

100% nothing to do with the end user it's all about manufacturing cost

totally agree.. glad I don't own any hookless wheels

You are right. Martin, you're fired as well!

I could not agree more. I enjoy the durability and reliability of alloy bars. May cost me a 25 grams but they are safer, cheaper, light enough and not a concern if I go down.

👴😀

Exactly this - if I have to sweat over the 1% inaccuracy on my pump pressure gauge then the 'technology' is a snake oil sale.

That's great. I'm just disappointed that the industry seems not to cater for different choices, all going in one direction

😂😂

Lighter by how much...... 😮

@@krissk77 12kg lighter, so my bike is now -4 pound in weight so I can literally float up climbs now.

And I always desired a set of 404 rim brakes wheels, they just went too far with hookless

Grazie mille!

I appreciate that!

As you know I’m for tpu on clinchers!

depends which sealant in my experience

Tubeless incredible. Hookless silly

Very well said. I can accept maybe 110 PSI is hard, but 70 or so is way too low. 28 or 30 tyres might be better for comfort, I don’t think they are in the same performance category as 23 or 25

@@fede1275Exactly!👊😜🚴🏻

We are all falling for that 😂

DT Swiss are a quality company if they aren't keen it says an awful lot.

Hookless is the future. When tubeless arrived alot of people who don´t even ride went nuts whenever a crash occurred.

Maybe those liners are indeed making it worse

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that for some wheels/tyres combinations the cons might be more than the pros. Issues happened not just at UAE and we expect pro mechanics to understand how to set up these tyres. Or maybe I'm just too old school to understand

😄😄

@@abhimawa1 it could be a combination of all these things, but the most important outcome is that the margin is too thin for me to use hookless on road bikes. I understand pro cyclists put more stress on the equipment, but if their technicians can get it wrong, so amateurs could also get it wrong. Hooked rims with tubes for me.

Good analogy

This is just a conspiracy theory.

I remember the great feeling of a steel frame from my very old Bianchi Selvino touring bike i had in my teens

Yes, especially considering that a cheap carbon wheelset nowadays delivers good performance and it’s difficult to justify the prices for the marginal gains

They are meant for weight winnies... anything that reduces bike weight they buy even if there is no benefit.... marketing

I am sure they will be a good performance improvement, I had great results with my Prime RR-50 V3 wheels

Yes, I agree. If we just look at road set up, I believe a TPU or latex tube set up is as fast as tubeless, maybe not the same comfort. I understand that it works if we follow all the correct indications, maybe there are too many to follow for a good result.

It's a pity that the industry can't cope with different products and set ups, has to be the same for all and pros have to ride what the consumer are offered to buy

Please tell me the same thing will happen with fully integrated front ends 😢!

Yeah, but before that though, lets try adding some grippy glue to the sidewalls of the tires before mounting them on the rims. Similar thing as the grippy paste applied to the seatposts and stems. That just might solve the problem. 🤣! I refuse to use any component that requires a paste to hold it in place. Not a fan of carbon fiber either.

Interesting, who knows if it’s down to the liners?

Absolutely, I feel nervous already going down at 70 Km/h and I would rather avoid any further doubt in my head

Exactly. Unless the UCI decides to review the basic shape of the bikes, there is nothing to improve on. Bikes like the TCR or the Ultimate are still the overall best choice. Aero specific frames are useful on a much narrower applications.

You are right! Roads are so dirty with glass in town and rocks and debris in the countryside. I prefer TPU as I use the bike every day, I am worried about having to pump too often with latex

He might have miscalculated the outcome…

I believe if it was down to the riders they will still be riding tubulars. They stopped them as they are not practical for the every day rider. Pro cycling gear has to be relevant for the normal users, so pros have to ride what people want to buy. In cycling the consumers dictate what the racers use

I could understand if there was a benefit attached to it

That’s another conspiracy theory.

I am happy with my integrated bar, but cables are exposed and not going through the stem and headtube. But we are the minority, it seems they all want no cables in sight!

Yes, maybe pro should have stayed with tubulars. Their mechanics seem no good either

I hope that these incidents would be just unfortunate episodes. It’s just that looking at a road tyre and thinking that there is no retaining lip makes me uncomfortable

Makes sense

😂

I guess it’s a completely different construction. Road and motorbike tyres are way more rigid

@@fede1275 yeah that’s my guess too, must be to do with the tires. They tend to have a stronger bead. This might be why hookless is fine for MTB

I suspect pro riders are using hookless because it's what manufacturers sell. They would still be riding tubulars if it was down to them

Makes sense!

I know , but they have to provide tangible benefits!

👍👍

I really like Giant and hookless rims made me not buy!

Ps: I ride a svelte Orbea Orca and I had the privilege to test ride the newest Spesh Allez Sprint. The new Allez Sprint is damn good. Top notch ride quality.

But you can look at the specs and price of something and determine it's overpriced and dumb. Like Apple phones, when you can get an android with better everything and it's cheaper.

@@Silidons91 yea, but it’s still not an iPhone.

I don't think this way of thinking is really applicable to this subject. We are not talking quantum physics and some practical deductions can be easily understood. Even so I linked a video from someone with more knowledge to explain in details the technicalities of hookless. What I really wanted to point out is the explanation that Zipp and Vittoria gave to the accident. Are you comfortable that a rock impact could cause the tyre to dislodge like that? I find this excuse really poor.

@@fede1275Of course a simple impact causing this kind of thing is not acceptable, and expert opinions are always valuable. However someone not trained in the field to talk like "who came up with this idea ... it's really beyond me" is silly at best. To be 100% clear, both of my road bikes have hookless wheels (ZIPP 303s and Mavic Allroad SL) and I'm slowly looking into replacing them. My criticism is for the talk, I'm not arguing against that hookless is probably not safe.

@@sz12359 I believe some poetic licence can be allowed in this case. Could they not develop a rim with a retaining lip that could also work well with a tubeless set up? I can't see the point of straight edges, unless it makes tubeless so much better? Still can't understand...

It's really a fair assessment on what benefit the new tech can bring. Or it's just new for the sake of it?

@@fede1275 Everything is just new tech for the sake of it. None of these companies make stuff just for fun, they make things to make money and that is all. The idea of an industry is to make things people want and then make as much profit as possible selling them! Be honest do you really think any bike is worth £3K, never mind 12K??? No it’s just really excellent marketing to maximise profit. Does anyone really need disc brakes and electric gears? Not really, mechanical were really good and good quality rim brakes are 80-90% as good as discs. Yet we’ve bought Di2 hydraulic disc groupsets in the millions and absolutely love them. We all got sucked in to the marketing blurb. So that said, is there a problem with hookless rims? Does it really matter? If there is and they don’t get it solved quickly, then like many other things they with go to the bad cycle product graveyard in the sky. But what if there isn’t a problem, this time next year everyone will be singing its praises. But I guarantee there will always be someone in puritan’s hat shouting “Witchcraft!” Because people just don’t like change, but change brings the opportunity for more profit! Blessings from Dorset. 🙏😎👍🏻

@@fede1275 I see your point, but I’d say it’s always new tech for the sake of profit. Some stuff works and sells massively, other stuff doesn’t and dies off really quickly. But without product development driven by profit we wouldn’t have lovely stuff like carbon frames, super lightweight wheels and Di2. But a lot of the comments are written as if the cycling industry is really evil. But they’re not, they just trying to make products they think we’ll want to buy and then market them and sell them to us at a massive profit. It just simple commerce not witchcraft. 😎👍🏻

Love carbon frames, I can see why people like discs and tubeless, can’t find a benefit in hookless

It's difficult to think pro mechanics are less qualified than the average user, but anything can happen. It seems to me hookless is being pushed by the bigger manufacturers to keep their competitive advantage

@@fede1275 What’s wrong with competitive advantage?! I thought in school they teach how to stay ahead of your competitors or you end up being left behind. If the product is safe nothing wrong with staying competitive. Here is more question of how complicated this mess is; should I, as a user, be able to sue UCI for allowing Enve to sell me a pair of UCI approved set of wheels? Side note: As far as pro mechanics on the world tour, the only pro shit they can do is change parts. I can teach any kid to do what they do. Replacing di2, axs or eps parts and putting fucking tubes on tires doesn’t require any professional skill. There is a RU-vid channel that showcases some of these “pro mechanics” building bikes for riders; it’s painful to watch… my favorite part is watching them pretend to fit a bike with slammed 140 stem and 2 sizes smaller. I f love it. Recently a pro world tour head mechanic was explaining how to buy the correct size bike. I asked do you force riders to ride smaller bikes so they can be more aero no matter what it takes? He said you tell me… I don’t know anything about that.

@@bendardania I should have worded it better, to "artificially keep their competitive advantage". I am happy to accept innovations, as long as they provide a tangible benefit. Di2 is great, if it makes you win, then the price is justified. Do you want an aero bike? Great, if it makes you happy and you smash your PR, then we are all happy. I can see benefits for discs brakes, even if they don't apply to my riding style. With hookless rims I am struggling to find a real benefit for this particular tech design.

@@fede1275 I’ve seen your content in the past, clearly you know what you like. Instead of trying to convince you about any of the new technology I think you would be a very good person to try this new technology. I don’t think you will like it. I don’t like it personally, but I think you will understand it better. I am not the one that invented hookless wheel but i know enough to understand it. I will explain it like this. And this is not something you will ever hear any executive tell you… they will actually deny it. UCI weight limit is 6.8kg. Rim brake tech was easily at that limit. Disc brakes make bikes heavier. Because the group-sets are heavier. Disc brakes help sell more bikes. John Doe who has never ridden a bike, can brake easier, not better, with disc brake. How, well easy… this is how: if you have a disc brake bike with size 23 or 19 tires you gonna kill yourself with skinny tires. But if you have 30 tires than they can definitely feel a little more safe descending, and cornering. But and this is a where the problem arises bigger tires means the bike is heavier. So how you solve this problem; well you create this new technology, called hookless which allows the spread of the tire even at 28 mm to flare at 31 in some cases. They will be a little more soft to ride and the reason why they are on the road bike is because they will help you ride safer feel more comfortable and still keep the bike light. As far as rim brake: disc brake debate, the reality of it is, we paid for road bikes with rim brakes, even more than what they cost now if you take in consideration inflation. It’s hard to make a whale swim like a dolphin.( when an overweight person doesn’t want to lose weight, disc brakes still make it possible to ride like a hero 😜) That’s what I think and I’m sticking with it. :).

@@bendardania I follow your logic and timeline of the events. I agree that discs feel better for some users and with that power it is almost necessary to run wider tyres at lower pressures. Where I am still struggling is how actually lighter hookless rims are. Would not they be able to go with a hooked wide rim to have the same outcome?

It doesn't look like the manufacturers know about them either... Zipp and Vittoria told us that hitting a rock can cause the tyre to come off, not sure we can be satisfied with that

@@fede1275 more the team “pro” mechanics. Follow the ERTRO guidance perhaps and see if you have the same issue. Why did the team release a statement claiming they were obliged to run a 28mm Tyre by the UCI when there’s no such limit? Why does the Manufacturer state one thing and the governing tyre safety body state another? The industry is a mess full of misinformation and clueless consumers. And frankly this RU-vid topic is doing more to spread misinformation than to educate. A customer shouldn’t have to do homework to ensure their bike is safe to ride and they’re well with the guidelines. It should be explained thoroughly at the point of sale. ENVE have been doing hookless for nearly a decade now with no such incidents. Suddenly a tyre too narrow for the internal width blows off and everyone thinks they’re being shafted by the companies. Hookless is a choice and if you weren’t given that choice then take that up with whoever you bought the bike from.

I love it! Its clickbait gold!

😂😂