HOP 38 Super vs 9mm +P+ 

Now...on a serious note. Look what you've done? Now I want a 38 Super. Thanks Howard.

For those commenting that these were particularly hot 38Super loads, they are actually true to its original potential. The standard 130gr load back around 1929 for this caliber was traveling at 1300fps. Great to see an ammo manufacturer loading to its true specs rather than loaded down. It is similar to the 10mm in that it is often sold with greatly reduced load offerings. Great video HR 👍🏻

I think the .38 Super is a cartridge that really needs to make a come back. The 1911 isn't going anywhere soon and for people that may want a different cartridge than a .45, the .38 just makes sense. Yes, there is 9mm (and no diss on it love the cartridge) but where 9mm shines is in the capacity category...a 1911 single stack is just not its thing in my opinion but a .38 Super is just perfect. Thank you for shooting, and wow great shooting :)

I really like .38 Super as well and feel that a 124 at 1300+ is plenty of power. As a bonus, the pistols aren’t ugly.

I've always felt that the .38 Super was the most underappreciated cartridge ever . It has so much to offer .

Good morning Chief. I am an old-school fan of the 38 Super cartridge and currently own a Colt 1911 Competition. Yes, the ammo is a little hard to find and pricey. I also own a Sig in 357 Sig. Of those two, the 38 Super is more fun to shoot. The recoil is light and my accuracy is as good as it gets (for me), especially for quick follow-up shots. Your video was extremely well done and fair. Now, I need to visit the House of Payne! Thanks for the work that you do.

Going Out on a Limb and Sayin 38 Super For The Win 😀❤️😎

Used to run a couple of 38 Super race guns for IPSC Open division before switching to Production and Production optics. For the 38 Super the competition load I used was a 124gr conical at around 1450-1500fps. Stout loads but made the compensator very effective. This video was a good trip down memory lane. Thank you for the video.

Very good video. I like the transparent and systematic approach you use in testing firearms and ammunition.

The FBI used to use 1911's in .38 Super. I think it was one of the pistols that killed John Dillinger.

Howard, you may wish to explore what competitive shooters are doing with the .38 Super. They all reload, of course, and among other things, have discovered they can use thicker 9x21 brass to get even spicier loads, without risk of blowing up their guns. .38 Super, like the .44 Special, is really a reloader's cartridge, because of both the expense of factory ammunition and the tendency for factory ammo to be substantially weakened, the HOP ammunition being an obvious exception.

UNDERWOOD and Buffalo Bore loads 9mm +P+ to the same specs as your Super loads. Their advertised velocities are usually a little lower than actual results.

I'm with you. My favorite historical pistol is my 1956 Romanian TT33-C in 7.62x25, with good ammunition. Just fun. Your 38 super loads are crazy . I need some 762x25 86gr surplus @ 1600ish fps !!! Thanks Hr

I regularly shoot 38super, 130 grain. It's a good accurate cartridge, easy recoil in the 1911 pistol.

Cool video! Impressed with the HOP ammo! I am a fan and owner of a 38 Super. I'm also a fan of 357 Sig. I think those two are the closest comparison to each other. They are both more powerful than 9mm and both not quite the power of 357 Mag. And yes, both are expensive.

The .38 Super has been one of my favorite defense calibers for some time own two both 1911 guns had others. I use hot Buffalo BORE AMMO IN JHP loads.

This is the exact comparison I was looking for. Thank you!

Thanks for the video. I have a Rock Island Armory 1911 in .38 Super, which I have not yet fired. I'll have to get a hold of some of that brand of ammo.

Nice shooting there. Thanks.

Thanks for another great informative video. Amazing shooting!!!

Good to see Mr Tack again. Good video.

Great vids Hr, keep em coming brother.

Considering the groups you achieved I would say both rounds are tack drivers. Well done and very entertaining!...

You could definitely see how much snap the Super had over the 9. Very good groups Chief!! Thanks for the video. Have a great, safe week!!😎🍻

👍👍thanks for the test. That was some really good shooting.

Wow! Better than advertised performance! Great video HR. Have been intending to get some of their ammo and now convinced this is ammo to get into.

Good shooting with good ammo, thanks for the video.

Very good test thanks!

Love a good tack drive

Glad to see you shooting the Davidsons Metro again. I bought mine after seeing your review some years back. Mine has never seen a factory load. I have a good supply of Federal 115 Hi Shok bullets, and run them hot. The desert Jacks hate it. I’ll have to chronograph it this spring.

For further information on early Automatic pistol cartridges see; ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-msQI6ongp24.html

Great video I have 3 colt 38 super in my collection and I love it

Good length barrel really helps that 38 super was impressive with 357 sig energy.

Had a colt 1911 with a compensator, all tricked out for competition. Loved it absolutely loved it. Great round.

Great review !

Great presentation! I think of the 38 Super in Thompson SMG, although very rare. That HOP 38 Super ammo is hot stuff. The 38 super is more like 357 Sig then a 9MM. I carry Federal 9MM BPLE ammo. It had a good reputation for stopping problems. I believe it was the duty ammo for the IL State Police at one time. And, it way cheaper than Gold Dots or HST ammo. A grail gun would be a Colt Commander in Satin Nickel in 38 Super.

A Colt 1911 in 38 Super was one of those guns I should have purchased 30 years ago. The negative information about its accuracy prevented me from buying one. Because it’s a semi-rimmed cartridge and headspaces on the rim (versus the case mouth), was the reason given for the inaccuracy. As your video demonstrates, in the proper gun, it’s capable of fantastic accuracy.

Good stuff. Good old offering. Nice old 1911. I am impressed.

Apparently HOP load their ammunition quite hot. Right after watching this video, an old one from Paul Harrell popped up, comparing the 38 Super to the 357 Sig; the former shot from a 1911 Colt pistol, and the latter from a Glock 31. The 38 Super was a Remington 130 grain +P load; it’s average velocity was 1182 fps, while the 357 Sig was also a Remington load, 125 grains, with an average velocity of 1436 fps. The HOP load is right up there with the 357 Sig. The question is: is the HOP load an exceptionally powerful one, or is the Remington load, +P at that, an exceptionally weak one? Btw, I like very much your presentations.

That was some expert gun control on display there! Well done sir!

I don't think that I've ever seen a 1911 shoot that tight. None of mine will do that. Good video.

Our local agency just switched from a Winchester Ranger 124 +p to a Speer Gold Dot 124 +p+. I’ll have to talk to a couple buddies of mine to find out why but I’m sure cost and availability had something to do with it. It’s kind of ironic that they went from a 40 to a 9 for less recoil and controllability but now they’re right back to where they started. Thanks for another great video sir. Be careful not to fall into the u tube trap. So many of my favorite channels have been deleted. They’re falling right and left, just what u tube wants.

They got some good loads, not watered down but some good ratings exceeding that 500 ft/lbs mark

Excellent video; one of your best. I like the .38 Super and load for it. The cartridge got a huge boost some years back when IPSC - and maybe others - wouldn't allow 9mm to make major due to over pressures and guns being damaged. To keep the high capacity magazines, many went to .38 Super that could make major safely. They now make the "Super Competition" cases for .38 Super that are rimless and work very well. The most impressive part of your video? The accuracy of your 1911 .38 Super. Better keep that one.

Wow, what a photo on the left, did you time it perfectly to capture the combustion of the cartridge before it came out of the muzzle?

Really appreciate this information; it's hard to come by currently. I've been very interested in .38 Super, ever since I learned of it from our police chief who carried one (Novak-perfected Government model) in uniform. He was a pretty legendary lawman and shooter, so no one really had any room to question his choice. Anyway, I hate that it's fallen out of favor in terms of availability of both guns and ammunition, considering its stellar performance characteristics. I'd love to have one.

Great show

With the right set up this cartridge (.38 super) has taken many competitions in both the IPSC and USPSA sports shooting completions and is becoming a sought after gun in 1911 and Tanfoglio style platforms. It has suffered in the past from bad press. But this IS a highly accurate, controllable, and fairly powerful round. (and the124 grn. compares with the 125 grn. .357 sig)

I am quite impressed with this company! I had a question about shooting this fairly HOT ammo in the partially unsupported chamber barrel of my recently acquired Astra A-80 in 38 Super +P pistol made in the mid-"80s". I filled out their contact portion on the website on Sunday PM, and got a call back from the President of the company next day! I was thanked even for my small order as I was only trying it out and was assured they use only NEW components, including the brass, and these are not re-manufactured and I would be fine. I call that Great customer service, and I greatly appreciate that service!

On the 115 grain group, you got better as you went along, the last 6 shots was that ragged hole. I have a 38 super and it is one of my carry guns. It shoots great. I do handload and when you handload your costs come way down into 9mm territory as long as you recover your brass, and as long as you can find components primers being the big one these days.

My old man has an old colt combat commander in 38 super it was the first pistol I ever shot now that I’m old enough to buy my own guns I bought my first 38 super I love this caliber

I like the super. Since i have 2 glock 10mm i swapped out my kimber 10mm barrel and mags to a cdnn sig 38 super barrel and carry underwood in it. Now ill get house of pain ammo. Informative vid . Thank you.

Very illustrative video. I'm always tickled by the optimism of the 9mm Luger crowd to believe that cartridge can do anything or be anything. Hell, I've heard plenty of similar comparisons of 9mm +P to .357 Sig. Oh to be young and naïve again. Semper Fi

Looks like the 40 S&W, the Sig 357, & the 38 Super are closely matched. So ammo price & availability would most likely be the deciding factor as to which one you would purchase and shoot.

Super Video !

Thanks for the discount code

I love the 38 Super and find it to be very versatile. In warm defensive clothes the Super brings plenty to the table. It can be found with excellent top quality hollowpoints flying at very effective velocity. In fun day on the range clothes it has very tame recoil and makes a good introduction to centerfire round for newer shooters. Much like a 357 magnum wheelgun, it has whatever you want when you want it.

yep

Many times the newest latest and greatest firearms are just historic guns that someone reskinned to look new. When guns like Glocks came out there was really nothing new about it. They used a Browning designed system running a round that's a little older than the 45 acp. The newest thing was polymer frames, which had been done several years before. Striker fired guns go as far back as the late 1800s. So most all the "new" stuff, is really just old stuff with a shiny new look. I myself do prefer the classic looks and materials though. Theres something about steel and wood that just feels amazing in the hand.

Idk if anyone has told you this, but you give off some real strong Paul Harrell vibes. Also, can you please do a video on conceal carrying with a suit jacket? Thanks.

My recent cartridge of interest has been the. 357 sig. Something that appears roughly on par with the .38 Super on paper, now that I watched your video. Just got all my ammo delivered for my new Glock 32 and I'm excited.

Good shooting mr.funk😮

nice tack shot....and video

Happy to hear that HOP is producing 38 super ammo! I just took delivery of a good supply of Underwood 38 super defense loads. As soon as work allows, I'm going to get to the range and try them in my Kimber Target 1911. FYI, 38 super +P, as it is officially called these days, is considered a "semi-rimmed" cartridge. Underwood is using 38 "Super Comp" cases, that eliminates the very slight rim. This aids in feeding and reliability and is supposed to work in weapons chambered for 38 Super +P. I fired some Super Comp rounds through my pistol last fall and they worked fine. We'll see how these Underwood loads do. I'm going to have to try the HOP loads. Good to have choices. Also, if you are looking for less expensive practice loads, AIM Surplus usually has PPU rounds in stock. Not the hottest loads, but good for plinking and a good source of brass.

Thanks for the discount code and impressive shooting! I think you can now consider your 38 super a very accurate 1911 in your collection!

One of my coworkers was born in Mexico, and became a U.S. Citizen 20 years ago, said that the .38 Super was Very prolific in Mexico, because they weren't allowed to have 9x19 because that's what the Military used. I've never verified that myself, but that was his account.

History of the 9mm or .35 caliber handgun round. At the end of the 19th Century, the Great John M. Browning, designed the first powerful semi-automatic pistols. Caliber designations were invented by the British, and then the advertising department took over. Despite the bullet size being .356 inch, or 9mm, it was called the .38 Automatic Colt Pistol, because Colts paid the bills, and the fixed cartridge versions, infinite versions, of the paper cartridges of the .36 “Navy” Colt percussion revolver, had been called “38 Caliber.” After much experimentation with the Colt automatic pistols of the day, the ballistics were roughly; a 130 gr jacketed bullet, at 1,175 fps, giving 398 foot pounds of energy. In European specifications this round was called 9x23SR. Over in Europe, they preferred less energetic rounds, firing low velocity light weight bullets around 9mm and zippy .30 caliber or 7.65 rounds at high or low velocity. The Kaiser’s German Army was looking at an assortment of semi-auto pistols to replace their ancient revolver. They loved the complex engineering of the Luger Pistol, with it’s watch-like fitting and fancy toggle action, so like the beloved Maxim machine gun. Then they looked over at the US of A, gasped and demanded the .30 Luger round be enlarged. The company, not wanting to spend an unnecessary Mark, just opened the case neck as much as possible, and the 9x19mm Luger round was born! Essentially, a shorter version of the 38 ACP with a lighter loading for effete Euro semi-males. The 9mm was originally loaded with a 124 gr jacketed bullet, at 1100 fps, giving 333 foot pounds. Meanwhile, back on the good side of the Atlantic, the US Army decided they needed a much bigger pistol round, because in the US of A, bigger is always better, and the .45 ACP was standardized. Colt’s having spent much money on advertising .38 caliber handguns, and given the robust 1911 pistol, decided to expand the market and souped up the .38 ACP with more velocity, and called it the .38 Super Colt Automatic Pistol, and they marketing department sold a lot. The Super was the same as the .38 ACP, but with more velocity, a 130 gr jacketed bullet at 1280 fps for 473 foot pounds of energy. 😁

I can see why Paul Harrell likes the .38 Super so well in his 1911 platform. I am impressed now as well. Like you said Howard it is at .357 Magnum velocities and power in a semi-auto [ uh, not to be confused with a ' fully semi automatic ' gun :-} ] and in an inherently accurate platform like the 1911 and 10 rounds in the clip......uh, er, I mean the ' box magazine ', it is a formidable handgun, especially being able to reload with a handy second clip. Uh, oh there I go again........I mean ' box magazine ' !! :-} :-}

HOP might have either used a commander to test velocity or shot at 7 yards maybe both. Chronographs readings may also differ because of elevation and ambient temperature.

For further information on the early Colt Automatic Pistols, by John M Browning see: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vgOicEVA4u8.html

Good job 👍 👍 your post & test met /exceeded my expectations 👍 be well - persevere ⭐🔫🇺🇲

Follow-up thought. Most 38 Super factory does not load to the cartridges full potential. I have a 124 grain load that does in excess of 1300 fps out of a 4.25" barrel and this ammo you were shooting was shooting quite in excess of that out of a 5". Nice to see a cartridge manufacturer loading a cartridge up to its full potential.

Good morning HR. Nice to see 38 Super ammo loaded to it's potential. Lots of it is held to low pressure in deference to the old 38 acp pistols. Did you ever fire any of the original Supervel ammo made by Lee Jurras? That was some pretty hot stuff.

Nice ammo. Good video. Chalk one up for us old time gun aficionados. 😊

Your test is wonderful! Congratulations! Can I make a request ? Could you make a chronograph comparison, using 38 Special, 38 Super and 357 Magnum ammunition, using a 357 revolver?

I think the thinking is that rack grade basic 38 super is on par with +P and +P+ 9mm, I think that holds true. However that's not apples to apples so I appreciate your video, not many people test ammunition at it's optimum performance :)

Great vid, gun, and caliber. I understand that the 38 Super was popular in South America because they had a ban for civilians having military ammo, and 38 Super was not military. See another comment about Mexico. Wasn't the 38 Auto rhe same as the 38 Super and was rhe first cartridge John M. Browning chambered in the 1911? RU-vid had a warning for a vid for a guy changing nipples on black powder revolvers! Duelist1954 says any modification vids on even BP guns are banned by YT. He makes two versions, one for YT and one for Rumble.

Got some House of Payne .38 Super 115 gr at a very good price. I was a little disappointed that they did not have any 124 gr in stock. Feel good already about finding a good defensive load in .38 Super.

I've a .38 super. Never had to shoot anybody with it, and it has a tad more kick to it than a 9mm. It's like my 3rd go to (and it's ready) behind my .45 and .40. I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Very impressive round there H R. I wonder how that cartridge would perform from a pistol caliber carbine?

Like you I love the 1911 platform. I've always thought of getting a .38 super. This makes me even more interested. Its just the cost and availability that has kept me from it.

Great video and awesome shooting skills! Just because you did not hit that tack, I would argue that your shooting skills are TACK driven.

I have wanted a 38super since I was a kid, 54 today and thinking of building my own.

While watching you shoot the accuracy tests, it appeared that it had a significant recoil. After the chrono test there was no doubt---that stuff is HOT! And very obviously accurate, which raised the question in my mind, is the HOP ammo just that much better than whatever you were previously shooting? Think to try some myself.

good presentation.

I think the main limiting factor on pistol loads is the fact that for most models the feed ramp is cut into the chamber, thus leaving a portion of the case unsupported. Probably with a fully supported chamber and case head most pistol cartridges could be pushed to way higher pressures. I wonder how a 9x19 mm loaded to 50,000 PSI would perform.

My wife said you need to use more of those targets. You're just using one little area out of that whole big target. Trees died to make those you know. 😉

Excellent video. I was just curious if you looked at any of the spent brass for signs of excessive pressure? Also, my factory magazines only hold 9 rounds and you mentioned having 10 round magazines. Are your magazines factory or aftermarket? Thank you for the outstanding content

Over the years there have been lots of claims and speculation that the Browning Hi Powers are not strong enough to handle +P and +P+ loads unless heavy recoil springs and buffers are installed. Even then, some complain the slides are not up to the task. I suspect, but cannot prove, this is more likely to be the case with older pistols, particularly those of wartime vintage or ones that have seen hard service use. As a result I tend to baby mine (though not the newer clones). What has been your experience?

The only reason the 38 Super caved to the 9x19, is the European use of the 9x19. I think. Too bad. We should ignore what they do over there and do what we know best. My opinion.

Been a subscriber for several years now and I just wanted to ask if you have considered making a channel on Rumble since RU-vid has become so restrictive on content? I really don't want to see firearms content disappear from the internet. Thanks for your time sir. I appreciate the videos. They are extremely informative and entertaining.

Plus p + review , I'm a 38super guy really like the round in the 1911 platform. I kinda always thought it to run hotter than the 9mm . And your right crowding in on a 357 magnum load .

I used to load 158 grain semi-wadcutters in .38 Super. Now I only go up to 147 grains on my 38 Super loads.

Them 38super are a hot round

If you’re a fan of 38super in 1911 you’ll love it out of the tanfoglio defiant. Hard to get firearm but hop seems to be obtaining hard to get firearms.

Oh boy . Great ammo on sale + a discount . Just don't tell the wife . That trick only works for them . Glad to see a add at the end . It seems every time people figure something out they change the mode of operations

Impressive. I really don’t need another hard to find ammo for gun. Still , looks like a nice flat shooting round.

im definately gonna have to see if HOP has some .45 acp ,that looks like an impressive ammo

I hope that Browning Hi-Power wasn't one of the aluminum framed versions

Nice presentation. I was really hoping by now the Springfield Prodigy would release in .38 Super. I'd like a double stack 1911 in my collection, just not in the missionary position of calibers. I wonder if your improvement of accuracy might be due to your gun running better with .355 rounds versus .356 or .357.