This week on Zero Punctuation, Yahtzee reviewed Babylon's Fall. www.escapistmagazine.com/babylons-fall-zero-punctuation/ Watch it early on RU-vid and support our content via RU-vid Memberships for just $2/month. ru-vid.com/show-UCqg5FCR7NrpvlBWMXdt-5Vgjoin
" Looks like I'm near a recording" I know. I just scanned it. " This was probably a field for Enduring Victory. The Old Ones sacrificed everything to.. I know. I played the first game. "Better glide!" I KNOW! IM FALLING, FOR GOD'S SAKE!
NPC: I went to the jumpy castle and skinned my knee. Aloy: You said you skinned your knee in a jumpy castle. NPC: Yeah. Kevin pushed me down, and I got sad. Aloy: You got sad because Kevin pushed you down. NPC: I am inept, and I lost my binky. Aloy: I'll go get your binky. Meet me 5 steps to the north.
Guerilla Games Dev: "Elden Ring's quest design sucks! When you're asked to find a missing person or long lost artifact, they don't even mark the precise location on your map!"
@@randomiser2267 It doesn't detract his opinion though, since he himself addressed it and gave context as to why. Certainly a lot more entertaining and consistent than some game journalist.
@@randomiser2267 But you apparently wasted at least 6 minutes of your life watching a guy you don't like just to give him ad revenue, so I think he wins.
As Aloy, the protagonist that backseat the players, said: "I should be able to make that jump" "looks like I need to..." "That console over there" "That platform is moving now, I should be able to make that jump" "looks like I need to..." btw, this happens even when she is swimming underwater... yes, she doesn't even shut up while being underwater.
I don't mind when she's pointing out something I didn't actively see in either mode (I keep picking up on Apex's when I didn't even see the basic outline of a machine in the first place, and she has better hearing than me so of course she'd pick up on machines around us I can't see) but yeah... After you've first used the berries by holding up to refill them, set STASH ACKNOWLEDGED to TRUE and unless it's been a few weeks or months, SHUT UP. The arrows thing is at least helpful.
I'm glad someone finally pointed out the fact that Aloy just fudges off at the start and ignores her friends. I finished Zero Dawn the day I started Forbidden West and I was very confused as to why her growth from the first one vanished at the start.
Well, that's what happens when a character arc has been completed and you insist on developing the character more. Unless you're a genius writting characters, like Miura ( the dude made Guts have 4 different character arcs, all connected organically and without contrivances, RIP a legend), it's better to move your narrative focus to another character, otherwise this shit happens.
Yeah that's my biggest issue with a game I otherwise love. I'm hoping that the story has more in store for Aloy's development than "actually you should work with others".
Yahtzee talking about how Aloy is super confident in her abilities only to get battered actually brings up the interesting concept that your character in an RPG's attitude toward their tasks might change depending on how absolutely fucked they were getting during their previous tasks
Imagine having gameplay and story actually tie up in a way that changes the interaction dialogue with NPCs depending how well you do in different scenarios. Instead we usually have a 3-part franchise where each game feels like you start at level 1 even though you just had your character at maximum level in the end of the previous part because the devs didn't come up with new things to add to the character.
This criticism actually makes no sense about HFW specifically though, given that the combat is not that difficult on Normal. And she's a better machine hunter than... basically everyone else on the planet, so it's true. You demonstrate that when you fight alongside NPCs.
@@vincentjohnson7175 I found it very odd when a one armed partner actually killed people before I could reach them. did I kill 2 to 3 times more? yes. but he still killed. also playing on hard mode made Yahtzees statement fairly true for me lol
@@vincentjohnson7175 his description of the combat is quite accurate though. you do spend every fight dodge-rolling around the battlefield, constantly eating healing berries, and it feels like most of the damage you take is due to some form of bad game-design rather than because you suck at the combat.
HZD Aloy: learns how to trust others, and how to get others to trust her, in spite of being distrusted from childhood HZD DLC Aloy: earns chieftain status and tries to learn how to be a leader to people, but kindly gives back the throne because it’s really not her place and she has little experience anyway HFW Aloy: fuck everyone else, let me do things alone, go away now
It's pretty hilarious how there was a TheGamer article titled "Gamers complaining about Aloy have clearly never seen a real woman before." Saying that "apparently being like a real woman is too much for some" even though Aloy actually looks nothing like a real woman in certain frames and proves that this "journalist" never actually has seen a real woman before himself. Also Aloy is only being "like a real woman" rather than actually being one whatsoever because she's a hollow imitation of a real woman. That's all there is to it.
Sadly, that's the reason most review sites end up giving constant praise to any big name games, even when they're shit or generic. They're too afraid to sour connections with the companies because then they can't be first on the scene with content and lose views/clicks.
@@nomisunrider6472 Review copies are for doing, guess what, reviews. It's a PR move that undoubtedly boosts your sales, given that the reviewers are credible and the review is good. If you're withholding the possibility to review your product before launching it, it is *probably* because you know it sucks.
@@jaghatarkebab2020 I know what the purpose is, but I don't see why anyone is entitled to a review copy just because they review things. It's not like he's part of a reviewer's union where the company is contractually obligated to send review copies to members and they're reneging on a deal, they just decided not to send him a copy, so I don't see that he has a right to one.
@@nomisunrider6472 The thing is, it's not an issue that they didn't get an early review code. It's that Sony specifically stated for the Ratchet and Clank game that they wouldn't give a code because of the tone of his coverage. In other words, they didn't want Yahtzee to review their product because they knew he'd give a more critical look at it. They always send review guides to tell Yahtzee exactly what to say, and because he chooses to actually be genuinely critical about what he reviews, they decided to not send anything to him. It's just disappointingly petty, especially since as Ichijo mentioned, they wouldn't use his review quotes either way. They're just trying to cut down on negative or critical discussion to maximize sales.
It does make wonder; if you have limited inventory capacity, but anything extra just gets sent to your stash, and you can refill your materials from your stash, what's the point of having limited inventory in the first place?
So you run out of things mid-battle, forcing you to plan instead of mindless throwing yourself into a fight, because the fight after that one might fuck you up if you're out of medical berries and arrows.
@@jepeman No, you have two storage containers. The stash at settlements and shelters refills all items you carry with you. Then you have the berries on hand, which you can immediately use, but then you also have a limited amount of berries in a pouch that you can refill the ones on-hand with. IIRC at the end you have 14 berries on-hand and 28 in your pouch to refill the 14 with.
That was a weird criticism honestly. Yeah they're everywhere, but the process of stopping to pick them up (and refill the pouch for that matter) make it unviable/dangerous in combat. So volume only really comes into it after the fight and saves you having to wander around hunting for the things. I mean if you like shopping in your Games good for you, I'd prefer to resupply and go hunting again
@@TheGreenScout I think you're doing it wrong. I was easily able to roll , roll, skip jump, dodge behind a rock and have the stupid robots forget where I was for a second. I'd scarf up all the berries, then go back at them. Except for the fucking kangaroos, which I found incredibly irritating.
It is balanced if you proceed through the story at a normal pace but if you rush through to the far side of the map while still at low ranks then yep, you're going to have a bad time. The missions have recommendations for the rank you should be at before attempting.
Yeah, Horizon has the awkward problem of everyone else on the planet being more interesting than Aloy, who does the awkward thing of trying to be her own person in front of the player, while also having all the personality and depth of a cardboard box. It's super funny in Horizion's case though, because everyone dealing with Aloy's bullshit does so much more for them than her.
That makes sense for me still learning about my autistic diagnosis to be honest. I'm so alien to them and they're alien to me. And I'm monotone and emotionless so maybe I'm just Aloy. I don't actively push people away though, they tend to reject me when I've done........ Something. That they consider wrong and won't tell me what.
Part of my thoughts when I played the beginning: "Aloy, I like you, and your talking to yourself is totally relatable to me because I talk through my problems... but while I'm learning these controls, I need you to shut the hell up for a minute."
Between that and ANY TIME you fight alongside ANYONE and they are constantly tossing ammo at you and telling you what ammo to use. Like "I CAN KILL THIS THING WITH TWO EXPLOSIVE SPIKES... SHADDUP ALREADY!!!" LOL
All they need to do is tweak it so she only says it 2 or 3 minutes after the trigger point, and obviously not say it if you have already done what she was gonna hint at you. The point of the character talking is to help the player if they are stuck, not to handhold the player every single time. Feels like game developers (excluding Fromsoft) think gamers are dumb.
@@PeterCassidyakaWolfchylde Lol, explosive spike is OP. Not just that it deals massive damage, it also staggers the enemy and breaks components. And then you combine that with the Extra Range Damage Power Surge.
@@thesquishedelf1301 the thing with yathzee, he makes really good points. Even if he is clearly bent on shtting on games, it's never really uncall for...
Yeah, Horizon: FB is in the running for my favorite game of the year, but I definitely agree with his points about the quick select bar being bad, and the UI being too much. Also agree that the upgrade trees outside of the stealth one and the melee combat one are very meh, and there is stuff you have to take that I never used. Like the one time I used the energized attack into bow shot thing was during the challenge where you have to defeat an enemy using it. Any other time I just found it easier to keep attacking or start shooting actual weak points. Also I was a little salty they took away my murder whistle.
I really like the game and also agree with basically everything Yahtzee says in this review. Ashly Burch did such a good job in HZD of allowing her performance to evolve as Aloy evolved from a single-minded loner into a heroine who earns a powerful group of allies through hard fucking work. The Aloy we see in HFW doesn't feel like the same girl who accepted an unpaid internship for the lowest-ranked hunter in the Hunter's Lodge or wandered all over a frozen wasteland doing odd jobs for the Banuk. I get that she's a national hero to the Carja and the Oseram, but she's not hanging out with them anymore! We hear all about how the Tenakth are bloodthirsty warriors, but every one of them rolls out the red carpet for Aloy like _they know she's the protagonist_ and it kinda sucks ass.
@@roonkolos I was just about to post exactly that. The Carja’s last major experience with the Tenakth was getting their ass handed to them, so of course the Carja would exaggerate the stories.
You seem to be forgetting that Aloy pretty much _isn't_ the same girl that did all of that. Since then, she's been betrayed and roadblocked at every possible turn, and she's just fucking jaded at this point. She's sick of everyone getting in her way and all the pseudo-religious bullshit reasons they claim to have for doing so. She's had it with all the cultish nonsense that causes nothing but problems for all the people that subscribe to it. The Utaru are literally being poisoned by the "land gods" they worship, and yet they continue to worship them, and do nothing about said poisoning because "the land gods will fix everything if we just BELIEVE hard enough!" I mean, for fucks sake, it was this cultish "all mother" bullshit that lead to her being an outcast in the first place. Yahtzee is absolutely right when he says Aloy acts like a teenager watching there grandparents trying to type something. "Just get out of my way and let me do it myself!" That's exactly how she feels, and she's fucking right to feel that way, because all these primitive religious idiots do nothing but get in her way for bullshit reasons. If you think Aloy in Forbidden West should've been performed the same way she was in Zero Dawn, then you missed the fucking point.
@@GeneralNickles exactly. If someone looks at just the game itself, never played the first or blatantly didn't pay attention or finish the first, the of course it comes off like her character is different Shes treated like a goddess & is tired of the cult like stuff everyone is doing. This isn't isn't a bash on religion. It's actually really straight forward to any that paid attention in the slightest bit
I am really, really happy you called the spiked Stegosaurus tail a Thagomizer. It was one of my favorite days in college that i learned it was actually named after that one Far Side comic.
@@TaeyxBlack I mean, technically everything was made up at one point. But while it's not very commonly used, I have seen anatidaephobia listed in online dictionaries and mentioned in articles.
Narratively speaking, how many (western) open world quests read like a Nigerian Prince email? “Dear madam, I am sorry to bother you. I am the scion of a trading company. My father, who recently passed away, bequethed his wealth unto me, but my treacherous brother has taken over the company by force and left me without my inheritance. If you would do me the favor of depositing several razor sharp arrows in his cranium, I will gladly transfer a portion of my wealth to you.”
Most game designers know people dont read the text and The players want to fling arrows for cash. It kinda hard to do that considering the horde of people that like cant open a door or know what a Minus is -
It's ironic that some of the devs of this game shit talked Elden Ring's design but if Elden Ring proves to be as genre defining to open world games as it seems it might they'll be taking pages out of From Software's book in their next iteration.
I can't tell if it's old open world vs new open world or if they feel threatened by Elden Ring's success and are fully aware they might not be on the same level.
If I recall right they were actually trashing the UI design of Elden Ring which is honestly a fair criticism in my opinion. Not a criticism large enough to ruin the whole game, but it's definitely a valid thing to say.
@@Gigadweeb You're right, its not generic. It does the exact same thing every single other fromsoft game has done and looks like absolute dogshit regardless. They could DO with having something more generic seeing as how the generic UI's are better recieved. They could learn a lot from a lot of things. Maybe not making the camera and targeting janky as fuck too.
"It's a market tested, risk-averse product that most people will enjoy, but few people will truly love or despise." - Dunkey on HFW. It's just another open world game. The only innovations Horizon makes are that you play as a ginger lady instead of a generic white dude, and that instead of having shoddy shooter combat, you have scuffed Monster Hunter combat.
Thing is tho, the 'scuffed' MH combat is still pretty good, and is better than 95% of open world games out there. Yahtzee's complaints about the combat essentially boil down to 'i'll just rush down the critical path so i can get back to elden ring', which means that part of the review can be safely ignored. If nothing else I will defend Horizon's gameplay since HFW is one of the few games to have actual enemy variety. Combine it with an interesting world premise and you have a recipe for a pretty great game (I say recipe since the actual execution is where the game fails, too formulaic).
@@Jerry-dx3cb Yeah, it was really disappointing to see someone who extols the combat of Soulsborne games and, I think, Monster Hunter, complain about the combat in HFW in a way that makes it sound like he didn't even bother trying to learn the strategies and options and just tried to brute force his way through a series where one of the first things you learn in the first game is that even a weak machine is a deadly threat to a even the best hunters if they don't fight smart.
@@onthemoverealestatephotogr9655 not really going thru TLoU now on my ps3 to see what the fuss is about, and while ITS A GOOD GAME its highly over rated
@@ZetbladeX13 Hasn't it already? It is the best open world in terms of creativity...but thats kinda it? Story meh, rewards meh, weapons cool but they break...so meh. Empty world especially once you realise its all just korok seeds or a shrine with puzzles that get boring after the 100th time. I will say it is still one of my top 10 maybe top 5 games, but mainly because nothing about it was bad, everything was at least decent. Witcher 3 is the best story based open world. BotW is the most creative open world. Elden Ring is the best combat open world. Sykrin is the best immersive open world. Out of those 4 Skyrim and Elden Ring are the best overall because even their worst features are pretty fine in my experience. Note: I had 0 issues with ER on PC, seems like others did though so a worse experience for them.
I do find it funny that the devs of horizon are mad at the devs of elden ring cause everyone immediately dropped everything to play elden ring including their game
Not just any big release. This was the BIGGEST release of the year. They might as well release against Half Life 3 or GTA6 with this kind of recklessness.
I just finished HFW and I have to say, I was underwhelmed. Story was decent, but everything else was just bleh. Controls felt like they were fighting me every step of the way, quick select menu for traps/potions was utterly useless in combat, some of the monster attacks are just straight up bullshit. Also Aloy never shuts the fuck up to let the player solve the puzzles. She always has dumb dialog to say to ruin the puzzle solving.
Ah being a kid. A wonderful experience. Just like the one Yahtzee is experiencing afresh with the birth of his and Kess' 2nd child. Congratulations again Yahtz! P.S. I used to enjoy pressing on my eyelids too. I believe I stopped when I couldn't tell if I was seeing spots or the world really was made up of strands of floating cotton candy.
@@kilroy987 yup. some jimminy cockthroat devs, including horizon devs, criticized the game soon after launch. mostly for it's UX, because it doesn't treat the player like a moron.
It's been a while since we had the old Yahtzee back. Lately I've detected a certain listlessness in his takedowns. But I felt some genuine relish in the way he pulled a beer out of the fridge, unzipped and drenched this game.
@@joeyclemenza7339 Yeah I've only played HZD and not HFW, but unless Guerrilla royalled effed up the combat, it sounds like his review of the combat doesn't really tell me anything about the game. I normally love Yahtzee reviews, but this felt like something he rushed out because everybody has to compare HFW to ER. He doesn't even cover what horizon style combat is all about. Using traps, topography, and environmental effects to your advantage. Figuring out shot placement and how it affects to the creature, etc. This part in particular really irked me: "combat was mostly me getting nine-tenths of my health blasted off by an unexpected tail whip or missile barrage and having to frantically roly-poly into cover to suck down three acai smoothies." I could not come up with a more accurate elden ring melee combat experience than that description. I'm not sure why thats suddenly a bad thing with a different game.
@@raskbell probably because HFW’s combat system is supposed to not be like Elden Ring’s? Like, HFW is meant to do stuff with the environment and all the other stuff you mentioned, but if you aren’t able to execute all those fancy environmental traps and weak-point shots because the enemy keeps whaling on you before you can set them up, why are they even there?
I'm having a lot of fun with Forbidden West and I'm also incredibly disappointed in almost every aspect of it. There's no ambition or innovation. There's barely even iteration!
I freaking LOVE HFW but omfg the climbing mechanics are literally the DEADLIEST, MOST FRUSTRATING ENEMY IN THE GAME! Between Aloy sticking to EVERYTHING and not moving sideways on surfaces (in the final battle I spent a solid minute trying to convince her that YES I DID want to climb AROUND the corner, than you!) to having to jump blindly backwards hoping beyond hope something you'd magnetically stick to would be behind you... I yelled at the screen SO MUCH during some of the climbing sequences. Jeeeez. Still love the game, still say people who complain about her being emotionless OBVIOUSLY haven't played beyond the first major plot twist, and when Sylens reappears... HOO BOY I LOVE SASSY ALOY SO MUCH! :3
I'd be willing to forgive the bad climbing mechanics if they didn't forcibly trigger every time you rub up against a climbable surface. So many combat encounters where I'm trying to avoid an attack, only to back into a wall and get locked into this dogshit climbing system.
From the perspective of a Horizon fan who was not spoiled by Elden Ring (I have no interest in playing FromSoftware games), this game was definitely trying to be bigger and better than it’s predecessor and I say they succeeded. They heard the criticism regarding the melee combat, the evolution of the ranged equipment, and the climbing and did their best to improve on all of it. They added new weapons and new machines to use them on and I consistently had fun hunting all of them.They even gave Aloy a glider because of people comparing it to BotW. As for the writing, I will admit that this game made me realize something crucial about Aloy: she’s not a perfect being, especially when it comes to how she treats those who clearly like her. She has trust issues and has spent most of her childhood talking to herself, of course she wouldn’t be that good at relationships. In the first game, we know that she doesn’t want to be idolized and, in the second game, we hear how she left her own party without telling anyone and we see how uncomfortable she is with having a statue built of her in her honor. I do not think any of her lines or actions feel out of character.
I was about 60hrs in when in my frustration I realized I could customize the item use controls. i took everything out besides potions and then swap in mount, rocks and traps only as I need. a hundred in game reminders about tap O to jump backwards but not for that. I love the game though tbh
I don't remember Aloy being so annoying in the 1st game. But although she insists that she doesn't care about all the praise given to her, she seems to have really let the "Savior of Meridian" thing go to her head.
Upvoting specifically for calling them "thagomizers" For those unaware, the spiked tail of a stegosaurus is officially called a thagomizer, based entirely on a Gary Larson cartoon, where some cave men dub it such "after the late Thag Simmons." Before this comic, it had no official name.
The best part was when the two game designers started hating on elden ring, one from this masterpiece and one from Battlefield (yes, that masterpiece). I would love a remake of the witcher without any forms of markers and a total rework of the witcher powers, where you actually had to put some effort in to find something out, not just follow the red mist. It‘s a huge wager because so many people would be totally lost when they couldnt just hold a button to keep the interactive movie running.
But, but, LOOK AT HER FACE THERE IS PEACH FUZZ! WOO HOO TAKE THAT ELDEN RING! With your um.. Amazing locations, weapons, world, story, bosses. ...What was I talking about?
Nerfing Aloy's maneuverability and rocketing up the health of the machines was definitely an odd decision; you'd think the upgrades to the machines' capabilities would be enough to shake up the difficulty. I loved the self-contained portions of the story quests, but the overall story fell completely flat for me. It feels less like things progress the way they logically would, and more that the story requires there to be a triumph here, a sad moment here, Aloy being clever here, while still letting the story continue. The villains and their beliefs receiving so little focus meant their repeated failure to kill Aloy when they had the chance felt much less earned than Helis dropping Aloy into the ring in Zero Dawn, and [redacted]'s death just made me angry that the game thought it was an effective emotional moment when it could have been avoided if said character hadn't suddenly become an idiot, or the killer acted the same as he did when he had Aloy by the throat, or the killer acted the same as he did when he had Aloy by the throat A SECOND TIME later on. People's actions do not make sense in Forbidden West. I blame the grander scale. Zero Dawn gave Aloy the goal of discovering who her mother is, and her motives grow as she follows that trail. Forbidden West gives you most of the plot a quarter of the way into the game. "Here's the world, here are the pieces of GAIA to get, here is the main villain who you can physically overcome, and here are the main villains who are unbeatable. Please don't question why you do not pursue the beatable villain when you have the upper hand, or why the unbeatable villains never kill the person at their mercy except the one time it isn't Aloy even though she is completely useless to them."
Aye, hard agree. Zero Dawn's story, wrapped around the mysteries of Aloy's birth and the fate of the Old World, was so immersive and easy to to invest in. All the emotional moments really felt earned and just hit their mark. Forbidden West's main conflict felt really contrived for me and that moment you refer to above just didn't work for me at all. It is like the writer knew we needed a darkest-hour, low-point to set up the finale, and just went with the most generic, cynical, uninspired one. Still enjoyed the game, but the main story and antagonists were really missing that special sauce.
How did they nerf her mobility? I've heard that they made it so that she gets tired after 3 dodge rolls to disincentivize spamming it (though there are apparently fairly easy work arounds), but they also added mid-combat hookshotting, the ability to climb much more of the environment, and the ability to swim underwater, plus much more expansive and agile melee abilities.
@@lnsflare1 Sorry for being unclear; I meant combat mobility. The long dodge is gone, Aloy is knocked down much more easily, she's now vulnerable even while on the ground meaning knockdowns can be chained together until death, and more environments being climbable just leads to Aloy leaving herself vulnerable grabbing onto surfaces you're trying to jump past in a fight. The grappling hook is a welcome addition, but it's contextual, and used more around human enemies than machines. The glider's amazing for movement, but it doesn't see a ton of use in the actual fighting unless you can grapple. And I don't know that there are many agility-boosting melee attacks aside from the one which lets Aloy slash someone and jump off of them. EDIT: To put it another way, I was thinking more in terms of how easy/difficult it is to have Aloy get around enemy attacks in the way you intend when you press the buttons. Her net number of abilities may have increased, but their combat utility is limited against bigger machines, and the stunlocks + less capable dodge roll are more relevant, making Aloy feel weaker and harder to control than she did in Zero Dawn.
@@StarfishAtLarge you have to dodge way too often. Doesn't matter who you're facing or what attack they're using, all you can do is dodge. Maybe a slide if you happen to be running. In other 3d games (not taking any names) you can block, walk back to make it whiff, sidewalk around the attack, jump, interrupt, and maybe even unique mechanics like a parry. It's not a complete regression from the first game, some stuff like making canisters explode is brilliant, but I don't remember this being an issue in zero dawn.
I just bought elden ring last night for PC... And the experience been hell! Not because it's hard, but because it controls like shite. And the game doesn't tell you how to do basic shit like sprinting, backstabbing, or how to open you f#&@ing pouch! 10/10🤪
@@vcprovost Are you new to FromSoftware games? They don't do any handholding really. As for how to do shit, did you miss the tutorial in the starting cave? Go right and jump down the hole after talking to the ghost. The tutorial shows you how to do everything. There's also the fact that the controls are in the system menu. As for the controls, if you're playing on a keyboard and mouse I'd advise you switch to a controller; it'll make things a hell of a lot easier. If you're being facetious, then you didn't make it clear.
Glad to see a lot of people are in the same boat as me. Everything Yhatzee says is right, yet I still find myself loving this game. Maybe I'm just easy to please. Give me pretty scenery and a bow to shoot at giant robot dinosaurs and I'm content.
Or it could be you rarely play games and the only you play are that of mainstream schlock, even then it would get tiring pretty quickly if you aren't spending month long breaks between them
Love the Horizon games but they’ve got a timing issue. Each one comes out within a week or two of some other open world game with revolutionary level design coming out and stealing all the attention.
I remember thinking the exact same thing. And also found it telling that we are still talking about the game that decided to take risks rather than the one that played it safe trying to ape the Witcher 3.
@@NathanCassidy721 Well that's kind of a misconception. After all Ghost of Tsushima - a game the first Horizon has a lot in common with - didn't really take risks in its camp defense/tower design/combat but people still look at it fondly. And Horizon is fun, but very story-driven. Elden Ring seems to be building itself around the exploration element like BotW, which is great, but claiming Horizon does it all wrong ignores the fact that people still really enjoy these characters and world. No one complains about exploring Horizon Forbidden West's world. Just being a better version of standard open world design, which can feel awkward when the opponent is its own unique off-beat thing.
@@benwasserman8223 I'm not gonna speak to GoT as I never played it but my impression was it came out during a bad year for gaming (and in general) and that it was more Stockholm Syndrome than it actually doing anything right. While I wouldn't call HZD a bad game but it's vastly overrated even in the areas people claim is great.
@@HimitsuHunter Yeah but they’re the best comparisons of modern standout open world games. Both still follow a Ubisoft-inspired template but there’s enough new or creative things in each to make the world more alive.
Also not to mention (and yes I know you shouldn't have all your OP stuff you had at in the last game at the start) that a character asks you why you don't have all of your crazy gizmos and Aloy's only response to that is that on her travel to the forbidden West part of the region she bumped her pack and it all FELL down a mountain. (Including her armor that was strapped to her?) It's not like we climbed up or down mountains to get resources in the last game or anything 🙄
You did an amazing job of describing everything Forbidden West does worse than Zero Dawn (Except that the also got rid of the long dodge roll keeping only the short which won't escape most AOE attacks). That said if you liked Zero Dawn, you'll probably like Forbidden West too... I just wish the game didn't spend so much time trying to convince me NOT to enjoy it. And what's with the weird smile-grimace that Aloy and many other NPCs keep making at each other?
It's cause it works for video games. Look at skyrim, one of the best selling games of all time (helped by the fact they reselling it but still), and the main character is allowed to become the leader of every faction in the world.
I really enjoyed my first playthrough of the game, though I found unlike the first one I had little to no desire to replay it... Also the medicine thing, totally agree that its a crap mechanic as indeed 'holding up' to restock basically prevents any other meaningful action = get wrecked or run around like a crazy person hoping not to for 3 seconds. Lastly, the spike thrower is WAY overpowered and is basically a kill everything weapon. I really enjoyed the version of it with drill ammo, headshots are hilarious!
Not sure rushing through critical path is the best way to review a game now, after years of people pointing out how bad side stuff was and highlighting how good it was in the few games that tried. More and more games are putting effort in on side content.
Elden Ring did spoiled me, not because of it's gameplay and world(Which is amazing btw) but because EVERYONE KNOWS WHEN TO SHUT THE FUCK UP. I'm tired of every single open world game having dialogue out the fucking ass, everyone you talk to has to tell you their life's story, the main character has to quip about fucking everything, I don't give a fuck that you got Yuri Lowenthal or Matthew Mercer or whoever the fuck other famous VA that's in everything else is doing the voice work. I love ER because the MC doesn't fucking talk, go figure that the game that should stress me out the most is the one I put more hours into than the one trying to get me emotionally engaged.
If a positive review is based solely on visuals but the gameplay sucked may I recommend... movies? They frequently have spectacular visuals and no game play at all! The point of a game is the gameplay. If it looks great that's nice and is certainly worth bonus points but the game has to be good.
Walking simulators are a second best recommendation for those people that cant bother to watch a movie when they dont have some stimulation every 5 min to keep them focused.
Alloy's contempt for every character is what put me off her even back in the first game. We get to meet funny and interesting people with different perspectives I find intriguing, yet she always talk shit about them. I’m trying to enjoy the story and the main character keeps talking shit about the stuff I like.
I was cringing playing as Aloy. She is literaly mocking people for their ignorance, all while HOGGING the key to betterment of all. She is a toxic entitled brat and aside from shit game designs and mechanics, bugs and inconsistencies, she made me cringe hard. Its a highly overvalued game, and after 30 years of gaming, I say we dont need more poorly written toxic brats representing "Feminine power". Id take a humble Amaterasu, Broken boned Lara Croft, Epically Stylish Bayoneta, A run for your life Jill Valentine 20 times over before I can digest another female feminist fantasy fulfillment.
That was my biggest problem with the first game too! She's truly a terrible character and seeing the game fall over itself talking about how great she is just made it worse.
@@Kserijaro She isn't hogging anything at all. She's genuinely appalled at the fact that people keep putting expectations on her shoulders all the time. And by half way through the game she's sharing everything she's learned with who ever she thinks might actually use it to do some good. People are jumping all over a character who is basically 18-20, rudderless, had her father die half a year ago, and then found out that she is the one person with the key to saving the world... spent her whole life receiving CONTEMPT from everyone around her, and now has to constantly contend with accolades and expectations they drape over her that she wasn't looking for. OF course she's BITTER. And Resentful. If she wasn't she wouldn't be human. But she outright tries to Help every single person who asks for help, and by midgame is actively sharing the things she's learned as freely as she can.
@@HimitsuHunter 100%. It's incredibly irritating to see so many people completely misunderstand the context of Aloy's existence. The first game literally shows how she tried to "save the world" despite having grown up alone and ostracized by everyone around her. Even Rost was ignorant of her discoveries. It's only natural that a girl who was raised not being ALLOWED to talk to anyone be socially awkward. That's her personality. She's not going to come across as likable because it's not her fucking job to smile and play nice. In saying that, she clearly cares enough to help people (no matter how stupid and annoying they are, though the latter is my own opinion). A lot of the time, she's not even condescending or bitter so I honestly reckon' people are imagining it to use this as an opportunity to hate on women; i.e. female characters. Bit coincidental that they won't say shit about a male protagonist being a selfish douchebag (with far less reasoning to). Even compared to Lara Croft, who is a rich white girl in modern society who destroys everything she comes across, it's nothing short of idiotic to say that Aloy is entitled. Like do they even know the definition? Anyways yeah, that's my two cents. I'm glad some people get it.
@@ACBPD Definitely! She's a great representation of someone who is neurodivergent! She is intentionally designed as anti-social and yes, she may come across as condescending or bitter nearly 100% of the time, but who wouldn't be a total asshole when they were raised a complete outcast from their society. We need more autistic characters like Aloy, and it's especially more rare and special when they're female.
Undoing character progression is the fastest way to get my offboard your game, TV series, movie franchise, etc. It's lazy and bad and writers who do it should feel bad.
but thats the thing it doesn't really undo anything i legit don't get this did aloy actually resolve her issue of doing everything alone in the last game? if i recall a big ass battle of Meridian happens and thats about it am i forgetting something?
I've finally jumped into this game, and I feel like my mind has been read with this review. The games different mechanics often getting in the way of each other, and are either bad or lackluster. Stealth is painstaking, traversal seems to be procedurally generated, and combat is frustrating beyond measure. Rather unfortunate as I enjoyed the first game.
The biggest disappointment for me is that the world of Horizon is fantastic and filled with genuinely great hard sci-fi, but it'd buried under the blandest ubisoft can produce.
@@PJBonoVox That's Ubisoft's fundamental open-world design. They know it will sell so that's why they keep making more at the barest minimum, relying on the 'brand' of the product.
You're right. Questgiver dialogue exchanges are kinda cringe. Aloy is too eager to 'go it alone'. That inventory menu at the bottom is WAY too hard to scroll though. But dammit, it's just so fun to zoom in with slow-mo on giant robot dinosaurs and pick off the important bits/weapons with your arrows while watching the monster slowly charging towards you and debating whether you should roll or try and get 'one last arrow' in. I swore I wouldn't play Elden Ring until I finished this game. And I thought I would be rushing through it. But dammit again, I'm enjoying taking my sweet time with this game and doing all that I can.
They only got the mental capacity for graphics cuz it makes them all jolly down there. Cant fight, cant think, cant be a human beside a pair of eyeballs... who dont want to see the world natural wonders.
Not true. I had a guy try to tell me that this game was better than Elden Ring at work. I said to name something other than the graphics that he thinks is better. He said "Robot Dinosaurs are cool!" -_-
The combat is much more in depth. Tons of variety with weaknesses to exploit and weapons to use, as opposed to dodge, roll, slice, die x39. Each monster allows you to master its moves, but also discover how to efficiently exploit the weaknesses. The story is also not a bunch of confusing names thrown at you, with some genuinely emotional moments
I have the platinum for the game and the more I think about my experience with it the more I realize Forbidden West is incredibly shallow. Guerilla really not only made the same game again but it is actually worse than Zero Dawn, I am not kidding.
It's kinda fascinating how much of the AAA-industry did a complete 180-turnaround on female characters from "busty bimbo who loooves boys and needs to be rescued and helped all the time" to "off-putting neanderthal with an apparent hatred of all other people and the charisma of the color beige" I mean damn, is the middle ground really that hard to find? It's right there. In the middle!
Zero dawn was one of my favorite games last gen. This one felt so weird. A big part of the last game was gaining allies to fight the final battle. In this game, she has to do it all herself? She recognizes she's the only one who can access stuff, wouldn't it make sense to bring people with her to help make sure she stays alive? It just didn't fit at all. That character growth had already taken place; why dump it all? You finally get to a point where she accepts help again, but there doesn't even seem to be a satisfying turning point. Also, they just tossed out all mystery development. One of the absolutely best parts of the last game was trying to piece together the mystery. It was doled out at a fantastic pace. In this one, they introduce a bit of mystery, then answer it for you in a few seconds. Afraid to let your audience think for themselves for too long? I don't get it. They tossed the best parts of the last game. It does seem to be getting a bit better and I haven't finished it yet, but there are certainly some missteps so far.
Having recently watched Let's Plays of bits of both games, I agree 100% with Yahtzee's comment that Horizon 2: Electric Dinosaur Boogaloo seems to have fallen victim to Loner Protagonist Already Had All Her Character Development Syndrome (or LPAHAHCDS). Also, comparing the two games, there definitely seems to be something off with the way the dialogue is handled in the second one; characters seem to constantly bob their heads up and down, walk around etc. while talking to each other as if trying desperately to avoid that thing Yahtzee always points out in Bioware games where NPCs stare fixedly into the camera too much. I'm sure the first game didn't do this so much. It's a shame, because both games look amazing and the first one seemed to have a pretty solid story and cast of characters (speaking of which, the second one seems to suffer from an excess of loosely connected villains whereas the first one seemed to connect everything together better).
I've been enjoying this one's story much more than the first, and find myself liking it more and more as I play. It's actually a challenging game too, the machines do not fuck around.
Witcher 3 used cinematic shots to make the dialogue more interesting. Horizon 2 uses motion capture for the dialogue scenes but there's too much movement in a lot of them.
I was so annoyed by how incapable all the male supporting characters were. They all suddenly forgot how to fight, how to hunt, how to track anyone or anything down, how to strategize, or any other skill that they need to survive. Throughout the entire time I’m just watching this people and thinking “how the HELL does anything in this world get accomplished with Aloy??!” The first game had this same problem but the sequel really doubled down on it.
Man, I just don't get the fervor for these games. I get why I've seen a thousand tweets about Elden Ring just today and it's only half past noon. I don't even play Souls games (I mean, we're not counting that Star Wars game with the ginger lead are we? I did play that). Souls games look crazy cool, even if I'm not into it. But the Horizon games look like pretty messes to me. Well rendered, lovely scenery, and bland as a spoon. I just truly don't get the appeal. But hey, folks say the same thing about Halo and I love Halo, so what do I know? Life is short, dig what you dig. But I sure don't understand it.
Why does Yahtzee sound like a dad who isn't mad just disappointed, but he's not really disappointed because he went in with the expectation that you'd fail? Like "I didn't go in with high expectations and yet you didn't even meet those *sigh*"
The gall of some of the developers of this game to go on twitter and whine that people were stupid for praising elden ring's UX despite it being worse than their game's (according to them, who admitted to being on the team of battlefield 2042) was pretty impressive.
The first game similarly got overshadowed by Breath of the Wild. Horizon 3 will probably suffer some similar fate, like another Marvel or Half-Life game coming out a week after it.
@@KeithFraser82 Yeah, but crying about it is the most unprofessional thing I've seen in a while in the videogame industry. Specially considering its nothing special compared to Elden Ring.
Poor Horizon Zero Dawn. First one had to follow Breath of the Wild, sequel had to follow Elden Ring. But even if it wasn't automatically runner up, I'd still say this is on point.
@@creator-link They sat there seething about Elden Ring in their little protected Twotter circle saying it had bad design and suggested the gaming community was hypocritical for liking it. Rather than admitting that maybe, MAYBE the way they were trained in their Western game dev course was not particularly good or that they didn't do good job, or that they just need to broaden their...cough...horizon. Fuck 'em. Cowardly, envious hacks that would probably ban any criticism of their own work and scream about entitled gamers rather than self reflect.
Overall great review but it was odd to criticize a game for having a non-boring skill tree. Wasn't having boring "take 20% less damage" or "do 20% more damage" as skills on a skilltree one of the criticisms of AAA open world RPGs? Sounds like they give you a more damaging combo move instead.
I often wonder what Yahtzee would have to say about My Summer Car. A cruel but fair and quite realistic survival game with NO traditional crafting elements made by a solo auteur developer focused on his precise vision. The game succeeded in building up a community of masochists like me who read the patch notes that state everything will be more difficult from now on, let out a sigh and go rebuild the flipping car again. It is probably not something he'd be into, given the game's focus on working on your own car and the survival elements, but it is definitely unique.
It's pretty hilarious that our dude's getting knocked around by the combat in this game and then going off into soulsborne land. Being angry about game mechanics while also being actually wrong about them is a new one for this channel though.
Yeah ... I do think that HFW is not an ideal game for taking a quick peak in and rushing through to make a review. I've been playing for over a month (always around 1-4 hours daily) and I really like it so far. Of course the game is not perfect, for example the pacing of the main story seems a bit off at times and the potions-and-traps menu is just bad. But I really loved the character developement and it made a lot of sense to me. Yes, Aloy is a bit of an impatient brat at the beginning, but she did spent the entire first game being the only one able to save the world from an immediate threat. We get told early on that she left directly after that game to save the world further, running into one problem after another. When we meet her again in HFW, she just spent MONTHS following breadcrumbs into dead ends, all the while knowing that this is the only chance to save her dying world and everyone in it. Of course she is frustrated and impatient! Yes, she could have asked for help from her friends, but she has spent her entire life mostly alone and is not really used to working together for anything other than a fight or two. Plus most of her friends can't even read the old glyphs at that point. Leaving everyone behind was a logical step in her eyes. If would have been better if she told them she's leaving, but we know from the first game that she hates the attention and reverence. Skipping the celebration is because of that. TLDR: Most of the story and character developement really pays off when you spend time with it and remember the first game. It's absolutely understandable that Yahtzee hates it, seeing as he did not remember a lot from the first game and also didn't really have the time to spend on this one.
"She's not actually competent, or doesn't come across as such in gameplay" I mean, in terms of during gameplay, you're the one controlling her, so that says more about you than her, really :P
@@SuperIchi It's a reasonable consideration when informed condition does not particularly align with practical. He similarly mentioned it in context and observation to other game mechanics that support his conclusion that the game was built with some level of expectation of that being the case as well, with the overabundance of recovery items in boss areas and the like.
@@Roadent1241 It's actually a completely different family of animals, not related to pigs. They look like pigs because of convergent evolution. And they're very common in the southwest of the US, which I'm guessing is why they were included.
