The LNWR coach 'white' actually had a slightly bluish tint when originally applied, 1lb of ultramarine blue to 112lb of white lead. This was because the coaches then received several coats of varnish, which laid a faintly greenish tint over the top. The idea was that in service the result would be a 'white' that looked -- more or less -- white. Regular cleaning, plus atmospheric effects/pollution, would cause minor variations over time, until repainting every 7 years or so. Roofs were untinted and unvarnished pure white lead, which would start to darken noticeably within weeks at most of leaving the paint-shop, and eventually turn almost sooty black as they were not cleaned at all. I also note that all the Hattons coaches have brown centres to the wheels. This is correct as these are Mansell wheels with wooden segments, supposed to improve running qualities, and these segments were varnished hardwood. The Hornby ones are, incorrectly, 'painted' black -- even though someone has gone to the trouble of moulding segment lines into the centres. Really great coaches, thanks for a great review.
@@strike9716 The segments were usually made of teak, an oily wood which was -- and is -- difficult to paint, and would last for decades in service, generally as long as the coach they were fitted to. Yes, the segments were load-bearing, they replaced the cast-steel spokes with a 'solid' wooden disc which reduced the unpleasant ringing noise which spoked metal wheels often developed. Theree was also a safety factor, in that if a segment fractured under load -- itself an extremely unlikely event, but it did occasionally happen -- the pieces were held in place by bolts at centre and rim, so the wheel didn't collapse anyway. If a spoke on a spoked wheel fractured, the whole wheel would promptly fail.
The LNWR colours were known as 'plum and spilt milk.' The 'brown' is actually a very deep colour and should have a hint of red or purple in the right light. My favourite livery of all - I have some very expensive kit built coaches that are just gorgeous. The Hattons stock look very nice indeed. The Webb Coal Tank with coaches looks great, I could watch that all day.
I believe that 'Goods' locos, at least on the GWR, meant mixed traffic, so there's nothing wrong with a Dean Goods on a passenger train (certainly a pre-grouping one). That's why they have 5ft 2 driving wheels, rather than the 4ft 7.5 often used on freight locos like the Aberdares or later the 28xx
Another great review Sam. I just hope that Hattons don’t halt production of these gorgeous models and keep issuing more releases as time goes by. Of course, I am now looking forward to the release now of the Steam Railmotor by Kernow Model Railways in the new year, for which I have a preorder. Deep joy.
Great work mukka. Nice review and very interesting. Glad you were able to pound Hornby into the ground yet again... love it. I trust you are keeping well... no sign of Chloe again!? Regards to you both from Oz. Merry Xmas. Gaz
Well, they've arrived - long looked for, come at last! Sam's review is spot-on, and I'm pleased that all 3 of mine are free-running, with no coupling problems, and no twisted footboards. They look a treat behind my Hattons P in full SECR Brunswick Green. Well done, Hattons - what delights have you in mind for us next?
A really excellent and enjoyable video. I do love to see earlier era items. The coaches and locos travel so well together. They seem to have more character. From a time when they were near the top of available technology. This video more than fulfils my request by about three times over. Thanks.
Excellent review Sam, not very surprised that they made the top five, but rather that they did so in 2022. Nice last minute entry. Hope you get another LNWR coach if you decide to, my rule for buying rolling stock is to buy at least three if you want to build a rake. Looking forward to the LSWR dropping next year! Cheers!
Thanks David - yes indeed! Three is a golden rule - though I don't mind a few pairs, especially as I have very few LNWR locos! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
thank you...interseting review of these coaches.....now i "only" have to wait till march next year, to get hold of "my" Great Northern Teakcoaches....been waiting then for 2 years....hope they 'll look as good as i'm hoping they will....
Thanks for the review. It is an interesting comparison between the two. I am waiting for coaches to be brought out in Somerset & Dorset blue to go with my blue Johnson 0-4-4 tank.
They are lovely models. I have a rake of the LMS coaches and the livery is just wonderful. I also have some Hornby LNWR ones, very basic by comparison.
Hi all. I went to the Hattons website to order a pack of 5 LSWR coaches (lovely looking salmon pink & dark chocolate), only to read that it will not be available until December 2023. How long does it take to paint a set of short coaches? I'm not having a pop at Hattons but blimey, that's a long time! Paul.
Excellent reviews. Perhaps when comparing manufacturers it would be an idea to have a shot of both models side by side with a brief pause instead of in different frames to make visual comparison easier.. I do wish they would have been produced in Caledonian or Highland liveries (and other rolling stock too). I am intrigued from a production viewpoint, if the same factories produce stuff for different manufacturers who then brand to their own. Bit like cheapish chicken in Tesco and Aldi - same producer different branding. Why the difference in quality from manufacturer to manufacturer which you highlight so many times (in different revues not just this one).
Some early GWR 4 and 6 wheel coaches were still in use in the 1930s, I have seen several photos of Halls, Castles etc pulling trains made up of greatly varied coaching stock, including a mix of Collett, Churchward, 4 and 6 wheeled coaches and LMS stock all in the same train, so feel free to pull them with a Hall, Castle etc etc and mix them up. We tend as modellers to build consists made up of the same period and company of coaches, photographic evidence has made me completely change that and how I build consists.
Hi Sam. Can you read the running number of the LBSC on the Hornby model. It's in the centre of the company badge and is very readable with a magnifying glass and a bit of light. I was amazed when somebody told me where the running was. If you have access to a Hattons's LB&SCR equivalent please tell us what you think. Bye from Ian.
Hello there sam, sorry for this off topic question that isn't related to the video but are hornby , bachmann and other toy train British steam and diesel locomotive toys sold in the US, UK and other countries or are they sold only in Europe and the UK?
So far I don't know which is better. I recently aquired two LSWR coaches and one GNR coach rom Hornby, and I think they're pretty good, especially for the price. However, I might be sampling Hattons in the future as their GER, L&YR and GCR coaches look very enticing. I would get some LNWR ones too but I'll have to decide which company to go for.
I hope Hattons will reissue the LMS and GWR models, I had just been able, for budget reasons, to buy the LNER and SR versions, I had just received them today. It's far more than a blazing success, the models for sale are looted away ! There is a market for those small coaches, with the British tradition of small layouts, and the success of the Hattons offer speaks for itself. For the quality, just wow ! I don't regret to have spend GBP 240 for my two sets, and I really want to buy more ! I've got my eyes on the BR 4 offer, that would be great while waiting for a reissue of the LMS and GWR ones. The Hornby offer... Well, Hornby, basically... If sold GBP 20 to 25 each, that would have been a nice model, but same price as the Genesis ones... Sorry, it does not make sense. For the dynamic qualities, well, mixed bag, but nothing awfull. They stay on the track, and you can have nice operational rakes. I will pull my Bachmann SR E4 from storage, and I hesitate between my K3 and my N7 for the LNER... I'll take both ! Plus my J70, just for kicks. And my Adams Radial for the SR too, let's have fun !
Ohh, those look good, might need to pick one of those up if I can. This made my day after my computer’s power supply crapped out. Thanks for always educating me and making my day
Really enjoyed this video - it's nice when you review coaching stock: after all, when we travel by train, the coaches are an important part of the experience!
I have the hornby lbsc and the hattons secr, one thing I will say after waiting all this time I was dissapointed my wainwright d class would not haul the basic set of four hattons genesis coaches it just kept wheel slipping on my completely flat layout. I had to put the traction tyres back on then it hauled them round fine.
I love my five gwr coaches. Well worth the wait. Great quality at a good price. All mine free wheeling and straight foot boards. The full brake is a beaut. Wish I had a few more. Good review as always, cheers and Happy Christmas all.
Interesting, my Hatton's 6 wheel Genisis coaches are fine being pulled but over points don't like being pushed and sometimes derail. Definitely centre wheel asm related. 4 wheel no problems. They are very nice mind.
I wanted to know how many versions were in the GWR livery since you got: 6-wheel 1/3 toilet, 4-wheel 1st, 6-wheel 2nd, 6-wheel 3rd, and 4-wheel brake 3rd. There's also a 4-wheel 3rd, 4-wheel 1/2, 6-wheel brake 3rd, 6-wheel 1/2/3, and a 6-wheel baggage car in GWR, so you got half of all the GWR variants. They look really nice with the black panel lines. The LSWR livery is also nice. Hatton's produced ten body variations for each livery compared to Hornby's seven body variations including a 4-wheel baggage car that Hatton's did not make
Looking forward to Hattons Genesis Batch 3 coaches (tba), the Caledonian 6-wheel versions. Should look wonderful behind my Bachmann Caledonian 0-6-0 tender locomotive in ‘as preserved’ livery. Already have a rake of Hornby Genesis NBR 6-wheel coaches paired with “Maude”, my Hornby NBR 0-6-0 tender locomotive, again in ’as preserved’ livery. Will be interesting to compare both rakes.
Hi Sam thanks for the review. I found it interesting and enlightening because I already own some Hornby and have pre -ordered Hattons sets due for release in 2023. The metal running boards are better in my opinion. The finish on the coaches could only be done with a very sophisticated industrial design and technology and is a credit to the manufacturer.
Sam, I received the long-awaited Isle of Wight Central Railway Terrier Train Pack this week by Hornby. It includes an A1X Terrier in the Isle of Wight Central Railway livery (beautiful), including three 4-wheel generic coaches. Compared to Hornby's 6-wheel brake (Southern livery), I've noticed the wheels are different. The 4-wheeled coaches in the pack have pinned free-moving wheels, whereas Hornby's 6-wheeled brake has these odd non-pinned wheels, which cause friction and are not precisely free-wheeling. I don't have any other Hornby generic coaches to compare. Still, I wanted to know if Hornby had replaced the non-free-wheeling wheels with pinned wheels, where you and other reviews all confirmed how poor these coaches perform. Sam, any ideas?
It is good to see that these are now released and that they are very good. I did notice brown paint on one of your couplings, some glue around one of the chain couplings and an apparent chip in the cream paintwork under one of the windows. However, none are major points. It is interesting to see that Hornby's 4 wheeled ones run slightly better. It is also good that Hornby and Hattons have tried to avoid duplicating too many of the liveries. Anyway, well done to all. You only need to nurse your bank balance for a bit after you bought so many!
Perhaps for a better idea of how the GWR coaches manage going over points, would have been to couple them to a loco with decent couplings that don't droop! Or simply fix the Dean Goods locos coupling!
Hey Sam, ace review! I bought 7 Genesis 6 wheelers but they just won't run on my track. They look stunning mind. Ironically the arguably cruder hornby 6 wheelers i have run fine. Frustrated and disappointed with the Genesis coaches, I have to remove the centre wheels from them. Take care, Happy Xmas to you and yours, Terry.
Will Martin MartMartinson be producing any Genesis coaches this year? Will they still have working gun turrets like last years? And do you know if they will have cured the burning smell and stickiness of their coaches this time?
What extraordinary review Sam. This actually represents a random batch sampling doesn’t it. With 1 imperfect coach (warped steps), the score would be 10 out of 11 perfect, i.e. a quality score ~of 91% within this particular sample. It’s a sample only but experience does learn that the fact that this can happen, usually points to a structural weakness of a manufacturer. Is 91% okay? Well, that would depend on how the bar is to be. These days, 99.9% for consumer products is quite the common practice. For European H0 brands such as Trix/Märklin, Roco, Piko, etc., it is safe to say that faults are very much a rarity. Still some work to do as well for Hattons. That said, the coaches do look absolutely gorgeous !
I was going to say that Märklin lining and lettering is the best, but those Genesis coaches are just as good! Perfect. As for the bent running board that should be an easy fix.
I may be missing something here, but do these light up? I've got the Hornby ones, and they have fantastic led lighting - OK, it's operated by a slightly dodgy magnetic switch, but at least you can turn it on or off, and it's really bright - 1st and 2nd class have either red or blue seating, which gives the lit coaches a different colour - awesome in the dark!
There are lit & unlit versions (although availability will vary!); Sam's look like the unlit variety. I believe Hattons are selling a conversion kit as well, to add lighting separately. I ordered the lit versions...
@@theelectricmonk3909 Many thanks for that - so do you know if the lit versions are switchable, or if they're just on all the time because they're taking power from the track?
@@SuperJ333 On analogue layouts, they'd be lit whenever there's track power; they do have a DCC socket though, so you could make them switchable. I haven't actually got mine yet (they're in my "Hattons Trunk" waiting for when I'm ready for them), so I haven't tested that yet. I think Sam's look at the generator coach covered lighting.
@@theelectricmonk3909 Ah - OK, I didn't see that. Not sure how you'd program coach lighting on a DCC controller - it's usually only the locos you can program, but I'm sure high end equipment used by experts will do it - alas, that's not me! So yes, these Hatton's coaches are awesome, but I do like the Hornby option to switch lights on and off on the fly, albeit with a dodgy magnetic switch - it does work well most of the time! What I do find with my light-up Pullman's is that in taking power from the track you can get unrealistic flicker on dodgy bits of the track like points, whereas again with Hornby the LED's are run on battery, so they're constant. It's a pain changing batteries (CR2032 watch batteries) but I have to say I accidentally left the lights on for 24 hours a while back, and they're still going strong after a year, so it's not a problem you'll encounter very often. I do admire your self control though - I don't think I'd be able to leave something this gorgeous in my Hatton's trunk - in fact I'd pay extra postage for express delivery!
Pere Marquette ran through Michigan father Marquette founded the Michigan town of st ignace and the pere Marquette still lives in central Michigan and is currently being overhauled for some more excursion runs
The new genesis coaches from Hatton's are extremely nice Sam. For 30 or 33 pounds they are very reasonably priced. I would really love to get anyone of the genesis coaches.
Very nice. I have the hornby 4-wheel full brake plus the 6-wheel all-first, brake 3rd, and 2x all 3rds in LNWR, and the livery looks different (and more accurate to some preserved coaches I've seen) to the hattons ones (the hattons ones being more brown and off-white than plum and spilt milk). Hope hornby release LNWR 4-wheel passenger vehicles at some point to extend my rake. I'm holding out for the NCB coaches from batch 2 and the NER coaches from batch 3 of these genesis coaches, as they fit the era/area I want better. I would consider some Southern ones, but I've bought so many Southern region coaches recently... Could you review a whole Hornby TfW WAG rake? A 67 plus mk4s TSOE, RSB, FOD, TSO, and DVT? 4 different types of mk4 coach plus the loco and DVT would make a nice rake for you to run, and a lot of review material like these coaches. I have the loco and RSB, and they look great, but I now need the other 3 coaches and DVT to finish the rake...
Awesome video - will have to look into getting some! Was gonna buy a couple of GWR but they're now out of stock. I didn't see any teak versions but if they do them in the future I'll buy a couple to go with my Hornby teak 6 wheeler and see how the finish compares!
L&WR? coaches, look (on the video) to be a pale grey/off white. (well to me they do) rather than the blue/greenish colour as you discribe. But of course I would have to see one for myself! I do like the GWR ones, and theywould be the ones that I woould like to get two or so of them to go with my Bachmann City class loco. 3700 class like City of Truro.
So far I’ve only reached the end of the comparison section, but it’s painful to see the Hornby coaches after hearing their cost. It seems like Hornby’s belong as a cheaper beginner’s model-with less detail to break-in the railroad range and Hatton’s belong as a railway range equivalent. Unless Hornby has some magical liveries that no one else could produce, there doesn’t seem to be an adequate reason to charge more. You’d think they’d see their competition and lower their price a bit to try and sell more and have the upper hand? Hmm… maybe I’m just too naïve using my common sense. Fantastic video as always! Have a good holiday! Trevor
I absolutely love the Genesis Coaches, wish I had pre-ordered more of the first Batch than I did, not a mistake I'll be making with Batches 2 & 3, hopefully they'll eventually do another run of the Batch 1 liveries (perhaps with new running numbers). The Hornby Coaches are perfectly fine, got a couple myself, but I think the main problem with them is they're just simply not as good as the Hattons' ones. If the Hattons' Coaches didn't exist or there was a significant price difference, I think there wouldn't be any issues. That said I do prefer the shape of the Genesis Coaches over that of Hornby's, especially the Brakes. Hornby's are clearly based on the Stroudley's Coaches for the LB&SCR and I've never been a fan of the way the brake duckets are merged with the end of the body. Plus I prefer the lower footboards of the Genesis Coaches rather than the higher single footboard of the Hornby Coaches. Very much looking forward to next two Genesis Batches, got my pre-orders in nice and early this time.
Coming back to this video after the unfortunate closure of Hattons. I am saddened I missed my window to order any batches of these beautiful Hattons coaches. But the Hornby ones will haft to suffice. Tis a shame though.
Lovely video of lovely carriages. Are they designed so that you can covert 6 wheeled coaches to long chassised 4 wheel coaches and if so do they run better?
I was very grateful when Hattons finally got these out as I was then able to pick up a full rake (5) of discounted Hornby LB&SCR 4 wheel lit coaches at £21.75 each from Model Railways Direct. Hornby's were a tad overpriced for sure but as with everything nowadays I'm happy to hang on for discounts even if I have to suffer disappointment when it doesnt happen or sells out for what I'm after.
Same here. I preordered some Genesis coaches but then didn't proceed with the order because I could get discounted Hornby ones. Being generic means they will look the same when repainted.
I’m looking forward to the br crimson ones or the Midland ones depending on what they look like as decorated samples. Probably going to get a rake of 5 (1 brake, 1 full brake and 3 of the full passenger ones)
I picked up three of the LMS coaches for my branch line. I'm very happy with mine (replacing old Hornby railroad 4 wheeled coaches). I've been really pleased with mine, though I also noticed a slightly bent footboard on one.
Considering they never existed, these are incredibly realistic! Unfortunately I will have to wait another year before I get my Midland liveried examples.
Years ago, I cut'n'shut some Hornby 4-wheel coaches together to make some 4-compartment coaches (loosely approximate to GWR diag U4). I have to be honest, the new Hornby 4-wheelers don't look terribly much better than what I achieved with a razor saw all those years ago. Hattons' effort definitely looks like a model from the 2020s. I'm not sure what about the Hornby offering couldn't have been achieved by them back in the late Margate days.
NICELY DONE Nice review Sam... One observation I would make would be that very lightly sprung buffers might have been an advantage when running these to prevent 'buffer-lock' on curves, especially as the shorter wheelbase of the coaches has the potential to cause this. Such a modification is well within the scope of even the most simple to average modeller. It would just be a case of wanting to do this I suppose. Not a problem on the running you did with the stock....but just a thought. James Hennighan Yorkshire, England
they look perfect but the 6 wheel does not work i would change then all to 4 wheel and fit the solid steps that why you given a choice 6 wheels are for tankers that need to spread the weight not coaches
While I totally agree that the Genesis are superior to Hornby's in detail and value. I cannot believe I'm defending Hornby's price here, but think it's worth considering. They only make a profit after a retailer takes their oncost out of the RRP. Hatton's can charge a lower RRP and make their cream as retailer and manufacturer. These coaches though, are definitely worthy of that high score. Cheers for the review/comparison and I can't wait until 'Santa' delivers my LBSCR coaches 😁
Hey sam! Have you ever considered fully decking out your layout with full diorama detail rather than just the few sections? I for one am a pure sucker for fully detailed scalr modeling, landscaping and all! Much love and support!
Hey Sam you know your dean single has Traction tires?. Well my modern lord of the isles doesn't even have traction tires And there is no ridge where it would go. Merry Christmas from: Jasper & Willow
There's a video on Hattons Model Railways channel showing the Dapol GWR Mogul hauling the GWR Genesis coaches, if you'd like to look at it. Sorry if my request scared you to death, I humbly apologise. I have a surprise up my sleeves: I'm thinking of running an N Gauge steam train round the base of my Christmas tree. Would you like to see it?
Sam do you remember the comparisons of hornby vs Bachman Gordon and edwards . Now you have Bachman Percy can you do Bachman Percy vs Hornby Percy . And maybe do the same with your james too . And consider doing them story’s with your Thomas characters focused on Percy the small engine and the troublesome trucks . And engines / rolling stock to buy : Bachman Ryan when he comes out , Bachman troublesome trucks , Bachman Annie and clarabel , Bachman red branch line coaches , green and red Bachman express coaches . Please consider all of these stuff and bye see you soon
Hattons are now showing the majority out of stock with no plans to reintroduce. Seems fair as these form a niche market. I was unsure whether to purchase.
