HOSAM (Stick and Mouse) - Dual stick control on a single stick budget! 

Thanks! I’m glad that you’ve found it useful.

Hey thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you believe it's useful. I definitely was wondering when making it if I had gone to far into "theory" before swinging back into "practice", but I felt it would do an injustice to not explain the *why* behind my choices - and hopefully help some people make their own choices instead of copying mine. Thanks again!

Thx for adding the therory in there. It went a long way to helping understand the control input layouts and why great info video well done

Thanks for watching!

Thanks for the kind words, and thanks for watching! I'm glad it helped.

Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad to hear that it was helpful for you.

I’m glad it was helpful!

Thanks for watching!

Thanks for the kind words!

Glad to hear you're back. The game isn't perfect (or even done) but I have great fun with what is there now and that's good enough for me. Cheers!

Thanks! Glad you liked it. I definitely agree!

Thanks for the kind words!

Thanks! Yeah, I didn't want to just be "here's a mouse and stick", so I wanted to ensure people were thinking about how they wanted to use them.

Glad that it was helpful! Enjoy your new setup.

Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!

There's dozens of us! Dozens! Thanks for sharing, subbing, and I'm glad you liked it!

@@TheHectate Of course man, I have some questions too! 1. Main thing is, with roll on X axis, is the precision of roll much more useful than having it on Z twist? I tried it and I think maybe I have to give my brain more time to retrain since I’ve been using it for strafe for so long, but in PvP where roll is a quick maneuver to keep the target on the vertical axis I find myself strafing and managing throttle while using the mini thumb stick for strafe up to keep my nose on target while maneuvering. With strafe all on the thumb stick, is it easy enough to strafe up and to the right at the same time? 2. So far I’ve been used to targeting on the red thumb button, with QT on pressing down the thumb stick. With vertical and horizontal strafe on the mini thumb stick, wouldn’t it be better to do target forward on thumb stick press? Then maybe move QT to red thumb stick or something. 3. I’m curious what you’ve bound to the base controls on the VKB. So far I’ve found I do enjoy mining laser power controlled by encoder 1, modules on the three buttons if needed, and ping angle on the other encoder. Alternatively, outside of mining I’ve got 1 for missile cam, 2 for decoupled toggle, and 3 for request landing.

@@krokenlochen Good questions. 1. The thumb-stick/mini-stick does well at hitting both axes to strafe up/right etc. With the Omni-throttle it's tilted 45 degrees off, but since my hand is also tilted, I've not had any issues with that since on my thumb it still feels like the correct direction. I'm not well-experienced at PvP so I can fully believe that different people will have different preference based on how they play or what they feel is most important. 2. I don't have a QT button bound on the stick. With the red button on countermeasures I'm sure I could do a click-in on a HAT/stick to toggle it, but right now it's on the keyboard. 3. For the three buttons I have those set to VTOL, Landing gear, and Request Landing. The switches/encoders are not being used right now. The current patch has been a mess for miners, and I'm not starved for funds, so it's not been something I've needed to set up yet. I do want to try the two encoders out on mining to see what I think. The ping-angle is a great idea that I hadn't thought of, so thanks for mentioning that. I know scouting for rocks has changed and made the pings more important, so that's a great suggestion.

Glad that it was helpful, thanks for watching and commenting too!

@@TheHectate If you're taking suggestions: one thing I'm struggling with, is the abundance of throttle and strafe options available with the latest Star Citizen patch. Would be great to see an explanation of relative VS absolute, trim long and short, sensitivity curves, and dead zones, as it relates to flight movement.

@@verbalpics Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure if I understand all of it yet either, but maybe that'll be something to do soon.

Wow such kind words! Thank you for that. I'm thrilled to know that my style doesn't come across as dry or boring; it was a concern that it's not as "exciting" as other videos. Thanks again!

Thanks for watching!

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.

Thanks for sharing your experience! I definitely want to eventually try dual sticks myself, but hearing how much people like this setup I have to wonder if it's worth the expense to even try it.! GLHF!

Glad it helped! Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching and I'm glad it helped. Good luck and have fun!

Thanks for watching!

Thanks for the feedback, and for watching!

Thanks for the kind words! GLHF

Nice! Yes, I definitely agree it takes some getting used to handling a ship with analog input. It's tricky because it's so easy to just "full send" which is no better/worse than just a digital keypress on the keyboard. That said, certain ships are much more comfortable to fly now - I didn't like the Arrow at all with M/K but it's much more comfortable to fly with the stick. Rolling in particular, since it was so twitchy on keyboard.

Glad you enjoyed watching!

Thanks for the kind words! I’m glad to hear the video helped. Happy flying!

@@TheHectate Well today is the day. It arrived so I am rewatching your video and taking notes as to which buttons and axis go where. I'll report again after trying it for a while :)

Thanks for watching!

I'm glad it helped you! Yes, international shipping was much higher than what I'm used to in the CONUS, although as you mention - combining multiple purchases will help with that. I opted to go without any mounting since it's just a single stick at this time. That helped keep the investment a bit lower lol.

Thanks for the compliment!

Glad to know it helped! Cheers!

Thanks for the comment! Yes, I'd heard not long after this video about being able to set up modifiers, so that's definitely a great way to expand the number of options available to a stick user.

Thanks for watching!

Nice! There are dozens of us!

Thanks! Yes, having the thumb stick available makes a huge difference; without it, this control scheme would be significantly limited.

One of us!

Thanks for watching!

Very nice! I've been meaning to get into the shift modes myself. It's a great upgrade that doesn't require anything extra in hardware.

@@TheHectate almost makes me feel like I’ve paid for the software. Only binding I have in SC are the axis controls, and little throttle wheel. Everything else is bound through VKB software. Best part, I don’t risk losing my binding progress because the profile is saved independent of SCs User folder.

@@dito4lyfe I really need to try that. I have the software installed but I really only used it initially to ensure that all the axes/buttons were working correctly. While this last patch didn't wipe my control scheme, it definitely would have been annoying if it had.

Thanks for the comment! Yeah, there are plenty of options out there that would work for left or right hands, so whatever works for you is the best choice! Thanks for sharing.

It’s great! Get the word out; more people must know lol

Thanks! Cheers!

Glad to hear that the video was helpful! I find it interesting that you preferred the X axis as strafing, but there's no shame in doing it the way that you like. Do what works for you. Thanks for watching!

Nice. I'll have to check that out.

Glad to hear that it was helpful in some way. Whichever way you go, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Thanks for watching!

I'm glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!

Roll is actually fairly important still IMO, so I do use it a lot. The main reason has to do with the fact that many of the ships in SC have very strong maneuvering thrusters on the bottom. This is to counteract gravity (e.g. VTOL/hovering situations), however the increased force they can put out is relevant in zero-G also. If your strongest non-main thrusters are on the bottom of the ship, then using roll to put them in the best position for your benefit is a big deal. I'm not that great at PvP yet, but I can hold my own in racing. Being able to *smoothly* roll (instead of all on/off of keyboard rolling) has made a huge difference in controlling the ship on the "best path" whlie racing. Of course, depending on how they eventually implement or change atmospheric effects on the shape of the ship, flying more like a flight simulator could eventually become important. Either way, it works very well for me and I still have my full strafe options.

Avenger One (the guy whose control scheme inspired this set up) has roll bound to twisting the left stick.

Thanks for watching! But, do what on a computer?

Nice! Welcome to the club!

Yes, it's a choice of priorities. Free Look, for example, I wasn't worried about because I did have the "F" Inner Thought bound on the outside red button, and that's effective for a quick glance around without using actual Free Look mode. Scanning settings are on the base (a rocker for up/down angle, and a button) for mining mostly, and Gimbal mode was not mentioned because many people take those off to upgrade the weapons a size anyway. For me, on the occasions I want to use gimbals, I just press G on the keyboard as I'm heading into the fight.

I can definitely agree that there are cases where the mouse gives you much finer control. I enjoy doing the races with it myself!

Thanks!

Nice!

Give it a shot! Save your old configuration and try out just the controls on something like the Arena Commander racing mode to see how it feels to fly.

@Hectate I've been using HOSAM with pedals (HOSAM-FOP?) and it's SO GOOD. Also using an azeron to get rid of the keyboard all together. Had the t16k, but just ordered the same VKB as you (dont have Virpil money now lmao), should be here in a week. Thank you for the video!!

I also got a Logitech G600 MMO mouse, my favorite mouse so far

19:17 bind vjoy/relative mouse mode to something, I have mine set to clicking down the mouse wheel. This way you can quickly swap between being fast with aim, and being very accurate and controlled

Greatest Of All Throttles

Nice! Thanks for watching and I hope you enjoy your time on the game; perhaps we will meet out there. Good luck!

Ive been doing the same. Been watching for awhile now. Looking for the best setup.

@@townofgatecity3235 Yea, after doing some more research, after I receive the left stick I think I’m going to go for pedals next for forward and back thrust, then track IR just for free look and then eventually the right hand stick

Nice, that definitely has a lot of buttons! If you look at some of the other comments, you'll notice people have recommended using a modifier on the flight stick to increase the number of available options. I'm going to be looking into that myself.

I totally get it. Initially, I was trying to justify the cost of nicer dual sticks, but when a friend recommended I look into this, it made all the difference in my budget. Don't feel bad if this is a bit of a stretch, because people can do extremely well with mouse and keyboard also! Save up your money for what you want (and don't waste it on cheap sticks). You could also look online for people selling used sticks - I've seen some for sale on Reddit, for example.

@@TheHectate Just so you know, i just ordered the flight stick from VKB Europe. The price was quite more (240€) than the US version (175$). We will se ;)

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. You might have to switch the twist to something that triggers at a certain value (since it's an axis and not a button), but that's something that can be easily done with the VKB software. I wouldn't use it for the power triangle personally though. For the maximum benefit, you really only have 4 choices. Max in one of the three points, or just balance it. The boost that each get (especially with weapons) to being at max means there's never a good reason to not have it on any other setting in between. That's why my mouse has the three buttons configured to max out a particular point. I can instantly switch to weapons, let them fast-recharge, and then back to shields max to protect myself while I empty the capacitors.

Great question! I did not remove the spring. I had considered it, but since I wanted to easily return to zero thrust from either direction, I felt the spring was necessary. I think the story might be different in other games, but for SC where all ships are essentially VTOL (some more efficient than others) it seemed like the right choice.

Thanks! Wow that is a tough question. Since I don’t *need* it for any of my axes, what would it be useful for? My initial thought is perhaps it would be nice for vertical strafe. Most ships in SC have very strong bottom thrusters - even more true for VTOL modes - so having the ability to accelerate directly up or down while having your thumb free for other tasks could be very useful.

@@TheHectate I got my stick and am learning to fly with it! Definitely taking some getting used to. I ended up doing roll on the thumb stick and strafe on the flight stick as that is just what my brain wanted to do. I tried the other way and kept trying to roll with the thumbstick. I have the stick set up pretty tight with 0 deadzone so I was rolling while trying to speed up or brake as well. I put targetting on the top left stick, power management on the middle D-pad and freelook on the small side pointer button. Quantum, landing gear, request landing on the lower thumb stick. Working out decently so far. Thanks again for the video and I am looking forward to getting deeper into SC with the update later today!

@@iamjeramy Glad to hear you got it working for you. Yeah, if your brain wants to do something different and it works for you, don't fight it! There's no rules about where one control has to be over another. Happy flying!

Very nice. Pedals would be awesome to have. Sadly, the way my desk is built I don't have much space underneath to put them. Someday...

For the way I use mine, it just sits on my desk. I know a great number of people prefer mounts like the Predator Mounts to give them quick-disconnect options while still keeping it firmly in place. For my case, desktop use is fine. You'll have to see for yourself. One downside to sitting it on a desk is the increased height compared to a mouse and keyboard on the same desk, though.

@@TheHectate Good point, I was definitely considering the forward and back distance, but didn't think about the up/down. I'll likely need to get it in front of me and then see where it could be placed if it feels to high. It may sound weird, but a very small elbow support on my chair arm might solve that problem. As long as it doesn't add any strange fatigue.. :)

It's crossed my mind a few times. I both didn't want to get into it before I decided my own thoughts on the changes, nor just before they applied more tweaks and made the work pointless. Maybe in a patch or two when things have settled for Master Modes I'll make an update. For now, the short version is that I have one of the side mouse buttons mapped to switch master modes, and middle click does the SCM/NAV mode switching. Everything else is the same I believe.

I personally did not like roll on the twist axis, but I know there are a lot of people that use it that way. The one thing I would caution you is that the T16000 has a reputation for a rapidly failing twist axis. If you train all that muscle memory and then you have to switch it up because it breaks... do you want to do that? lol. I can't answer for what you feel is best. I recommend trying everything out for just a little and see how it feels to you.

@@TheHectate okay cool, thank you for all the information! I am going to get a VKB just to avoid the headache.

That was how it looked when the video was recorded. A later patch added the line. I'm not aware of a setting that disables it. Sorry. But thanks for watching and commenting!

Sorry, no I don't currently have it available online.

For me I chose the Omni-throttle mostly for comfort. I prefer the palm-down ergonomic grip over the traditional vertical. I wasn’t worried about muscle memory on a vertical stick, since my left hand does not have any.

@@TheHectate thanks man! Checked your other videos, sick flying. pretty sold on this (h.o.t.a.m.?) layout

@@Cashatoo Thanks for the kind words! I don't really consider it a throttle (since it doesn't stay in place if I let go), so I like to say HOSAM.

Nice! Welcome to the club!

Thanks for watching! Yes, there are definite benefits to having the mouse around :)

No matter what you switch to/from there is always going to be some kind of learning curve. Maybe HOTAS isn't the right setup for you, but also maybe you just need to get more practice with it. That said, if it doesn't end up working out, there's always the option to sell the HOTAS and move that money towards a different setup like HOSAM or HOSAS.

I posted this in another reply, but I think it's better for people to set their own bindings. It really cements the location of those buttons in your mental map of the controls when you've taken the time to manually think through the options and set it up yourself.

@@TheHectate I would generally agree. I have a VKB on loan to see if I like it and am trying al kinds of things. There are so few HOSAM profiles out there, I wanted to try a few variants. thanks for responding!

@@TheHectate I just went through the entire comment thread looking for it. lol likely would have finished manually binding by now if I just got on it. lol

Nice setup! Yeah it’s not for everyone, but for those that need an option that meets their needs halfway, it’s a good solution. Someday I want to acquire a second stick for the right hand, then I’ll be able to see which I like more too lol

While it's on my desk like this, yes my arm is "hovering" higher than usual. Thankfully at my height it's still reasonably comfortable but I could see other people having that issue. Getting it lowered (on a mount or something) would definitely improve the ergonomics!

Yes, that was the one I got. As far as the other side, it’s definitely something that will depend on your budget and preference. Firstly, shipping is expensive and if you plan to expand your collection eventually then it’s helpful to spend that amount only once - if it’s within your current budget. I’ve seen that the left stick is popular in the standard/premium version without the Omnithrottle. In my mind, foot pedals are an unnecessary extra, feel free to get them if you want to go all out, but it’s not going to change what you’re able to do - just how you do it.

Yes, but many of them are keypresses and not special "buttons" that Star Citizen might not recognize. The Logitech software has them mapped to a key (F5, for example) and that key is just bound as usual like you would if you were flying with the keyboard.

@@TheHectate Thanks, yeah, I ended up mapping the commands I wanted to add to things like Right-Alt+K and then setting the mouse button to that. I'm surprised "Mouse button 5" isn't available but at least I can work around it. I also dusted off my old Saitek ST290PRO and I'm trying out HOSAM. It is fun even with this awkward joystick.

I guess I don't have that issue? The rubber pads on the base are gripping my leather desk pad very well and I don't have any issues with it moving around. As a bonus, I can shift it closer or further easily, depending on what I want to do at the moment.

Oh yeah, I've seen people using voice attack. I really need to try that out someday.

@@TheHectate Just added, decoys, noise, scan mode, jump and skip jump. Skip jump will engage quantum wait 4 sec then hold down B to stop. Great for when you gotta run.

Open options, go to controls tab, click over to joystick in the bottom right (there may or may not be multiple, so click through until you find the correct one). Inversion settings>flight movement>invert forward/reverse thrust. Hope this helps, lmk if you need any more help!

@@PropKnucklesFPV this worked. Thank you so much

Nice, I'm glad someone got the information to you. Yeah, I noticed that the default axis on the VKB is reversed from what SC expects. I believe there's a way in the VKB software to reverse it so you don't have to change anything in SC. If you go the SC configuration route, keep in mind that after the patch drops you''ll likely have to fix that (unless you save your settings elsewhere first).

Yeah I just leave it on the desk. Even during heavy maneuvers I don't have any issue with it slipping around. I believe you're correct that mounting it wouldn't work as well because of the placement of the mouse. I could see someone with a mounted mouse pad doing it though, lol. Either way, it works for me fairly well. The only downside is that the flight stick itself is raised above the desk while the mouse is at desk level, which is a little uneven. Not terrible, but something to consider.

Possibly? I would suggest you see if SC recognizes your pedals before committing one way or another. If they're recognized and functional, then you definitely have an extra set of inputs that I don't have!

In theory I could, but I would still recommend you do it yourself. Both because the binding process helps you think through what you're doing, and also because if patches break bindings in the future you'd have to do it anyway. Good practice.

Sorry, I don't have it shared anywhere. It shouldn't be too difficult to re-create, since I kept so much as default as possible.

I'm enjoying it! I still need to actually spend time practicing PvP but for flying around and racing it's a great setup. It makes so much of the flight smoother; and having controls right at my fingers is great.

fascinating

Yes, mine is just sitting on the desk. Not ideal but it's the best setup I have right now. Eventually I'd like to get a mount that I can snap-on/off my chair. That would be ideal for ergonomics.

The flight stick is the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO with Omnithrottle attachment.

Hey, whatever works for you is what's important!

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

@@TheHectate Pretty sure this is an attempt to let others know where you get into the meat and potatoes of selecting what goes where and skips your introduction. I enjoyed it all.

Did you watch the video? I have all the axes available 100%.

@@TheHectate So does the keyboard, but you said you went HOSAM due to budget, not because you think it's the best setup, so I assumed you wanted to upgrade.

@@j.d.4697 It's debatable. I definitely started this adventure thinking HOSAS was "best" simply because everyone else used it. Now I'm less certain, having enjoyed HOSAM for a bit. It's got a great degree of control. That said, I can't say I'm the most knowledgeable person on it; since I've never flown HOSAS!

@@TheHectate It's the best of both worlds, but it still lacks fine analog control of 1 axis. There is a reason some use extensions for their mounted stick setups, the longer the stick the more fine control you have due to leverage. Conversely, tiny thumb sticks may be analog but because of the extremely short stick and the super cheap sensor they are super unprecise. On the other hand, to aim as well with a HOSAS as you can with a HOSAM you will probably want gimballed sticks with good touchless sensors, so minimum VKB Gladiator EVO I think, and also practice. So bottom line is, I have no doubt you can aim as well with a stick as you can with a mouse, at least in SC. The question is whether you put in the money and time investment to get there.

@@j.d.4697 Thanks for the thoughts. Yes, a small stick will definitely be less precise than a larger one - not to even mention the sensor quality question that you bring up. I see what you mean about losing a degree of control over the axes that are on the thumb stick. And you are correct as well that practice will be a huge part of success also!

Thanks for the info, it’s always hard to gauge what works for different people so I must have erred too low.

@@TheHectate In your rendering /editing software should be an indicator. Just put it below overshooting the threshold. Max Volume without overshooting into distortion ist what most people seem to use, so if people come from another video to your channel they dxont have to put the volume up, and the next video ist way loudeer when they forget. There a red clipping indicator on most softwares so you know if youre too loud. Once you figured out how that workds, its easy to get the same volume every time. Interesting Video, i was just trying to figure out a setup before i swith to dual sticks, so i just wanted to see what different people use. gj there.

@@GameTalkEddie Glad it was helpful! And thanks for the tips. I’ll pay attention to the volume meter more next time, I definitely worried about it peaking but probably a little too much. It’s probably advisable to do some further experiments with audio levels, mic placement, and my own voice to see what works best.

@@TheHectate Yeah i did that in the beginning with my edits too, but its better to have it peak slightly once or twice in the video, because even eith my studio headphones i would not notice any bad sounds as long as its not way over the threshold. Depending on the audio software you might even be able to compress the audio so that it has basically the same volume all the time, wich makes the leveling even more easy. Have a nice day, and good luck! Stay Healthy.

Yeah, I know right?

Well if someone is considering dropping a couple hundred on a flight stick to play with Star Citizen (and possibly other games too!), then I doubt they're the target audience for your sarcasm. Some of us enjoy this "crap". Either way, thanks for watching!

That's a weird comment; I have no idea what you mean. The VKB Gladiators are great quality.

@@TheHectate China doesn't make anything of great quality. Virpil 4 life

I don't see why not! Having a touchscreen nearby does mean that you have to take a hand off a control, but if you're seeking an input that's not on those controls already then it should already be a secondary need to everything on your controls.