Homeowner here and not a plumber - northern Virginia. I had one line freeze twice with the ensuing repairs after I tore the wall apart. I'm pretty religious about draining the lines now and haven't had an issue in 30+ years. I have a small bag of vacuum break caps (that I can actually find) and, of course, having a supply on hand, I haven't lost one in years. As to valves - you can't have too many. And ball valves that you can see their status from across the room, not gate valves that you're never quite sure of.
If you're talking new construction or renovation, I **HIGHLY** recommend running a hot line also to your hose bibb and going with a hot/cold hose bibb. I used the Prier bibb and LOVE it. Wash your car in the winter with warm water. Fill up your kid's play pool with warm water, etc. I will never not run a hot line to the hose bibb if I have the opportunity.
When I was a kid in the 80s my parents would fill the kiddie pool with hot water from a utility tub sink with a hose out a window. The outside hot hose bib would have been awesome!
I took a similar but different approach where at the water softener, you can control whether the hoses are on softened or unsoftener water, and there is another tee that leads to a normally shut off valve with a MHT fitting. That drains every single hose bib in the winter at once and can double as a drain for the cold side of my entire house depending on valve configuration. Has been very useful.
Are any of these valves automated? Or are they all manual? I’m trying to find some electronic valves to automatically switch between softened and in-softened water.
@@timkopp2204 thanks, I just got two valves in today for an alternating setup. 1x NO and 1 x NC .... these will be master valves for my irrigation system. I need some zones to be clean and the majority to be straight from the well to minimize strain on water treatment system. I appreciate the response!
All but one in my house are quarter turn. One is not anymore because once I spooked a deer and it ran through my yard and kicked the quarter turn open. Thankfully I saw this happen.
My house we have the hose bibs on a separate circuit of plumbing with its own shut off located right next to the main shut off for all water. Come fall, I shut that valve, then I have an adapter for my air compressor to hose bib. I hook that up to the hose bib next to the garage where the air compressor is located, walk around the house to each hose, and open the hose until I get air and then keep letting it blow air for a minute or so. I go to the next hose and do the same. This clears the hoses and hose bibs of water. I disconnect the hoses from the hose bib after I blow each one as well. This not only prevents the hose bib from freezing, but removes the water from the hoses and means I can just leave the hoses outside in place, ready to hookup for next spring. Much less work than disconnecting the hoses and gravity draining them or moving them inside. Also less work than closing a valve inside at each hose bib and draining each one from a crawl space or basement or whatever.
My strategy simply involves running PEX-A to a conventional hose bib. I've installed an isolation valve to enable draining during the winter months. However, if I happen to forget, the PEX's flexibility allows it to expand instead of cracking like copper does. While I wouldn't want to depend on this feature regularly due to damage caused by repeated freezes, it appears to offer a remarkably cost-effective solution.
I do wish they'd posted a link. It looks webstone with the pro press version being model 80613W and there's a version with FNPT connections that is model # 40613W. Make sure to get the lead free version for potable water. It's titled "3/4" Pro-Pal Full Port Forged Brass Ball Valve w/ Hi-Flow Hose Drain & Reversible Handle (Lead Free)".
Love your videos Matt. We actually built our own house and your videos were invaluable to us. We did a Pex manifold with all home runs. We live in East Texas, so it's usually not a big deal, but we do occasionally get a freeze. If we suspect a freeze I just go to the manifold and shut off all hose bibs! Keep the videos coming!
Woodford model 27 is self draining even with a hose connected, in my opinion this is the best belt and suspenders approach. The pressure relief in the model 19 still traps water in the sillcock if the hose is left connected.
And in the South where there are no basements, builders do not put the water line to the outside hose bibs in a wall cavity where you could install a frost free hose bib. So, in these situations, we are stuck with the regular hose bib with no way to turn off the water to just the hose bibs. Therefore, the insulation socks, etc. are all we can use. And it still gets cold in the South. I’m in SW Arkansas and it got on -3 degrees last Christmas. Yep, we had a water line break in two separate places. It was to on of the insulation sock covered hose bibs. I have now installed an inline water leak detection system, a PHYN unit.
Tto catch the drain valve water I use some plastic bottle (1/4gal or 1litre) cross cut with a knive a side hole just down the bottleneck to push it on the open valve.
When i was kid the houses were very cold in upstate NY. Thermostats set in the 50s… we would leave faucets dripping at night on a few sinks. Never saw one freeze. That might be a good trick for southern homeowners where it seldom freezes
I was putting frost free bibs on my houses in Waco, TX since the late 80's, early 90's. We don't have the same problems as in the north, but I never had another bib freeze on me, even under pier & beam houses that were vented...
In Atlanta and parts of the southeast, the water for sill cocks is supplied from a nearby or upstairs kitchen or bathroom. A ball valve shutoff is installed in a cabinet and the sill cock is below the shut off. The homeowner has to remember to turn the valve and open the sill cock pre winter but gravity and PEX prevent freeze back and no in house water drainage is required.
Wow. Glad my builder put in those anti-syphon bibs on.. even 20 years on they are still working. We did have the main water feed to the house burst though in our TX freeze
Anti syphon is different than frost free. AS prevents water coming back into the house like if you used a liquid fertilizer hose attachment. You would definitely not want that contaminated water getting into your homes pipes. AS does nothing to protect from frozen pipes though!
Literally the day you posted this I had the plumber over to tell us what it would cost to fix the leak on the backyard spigot that has been around since the prior owner.
Great video guys. I wish I had known about that $50 valve before I did this! 😊 What is this valve called, make, model, etc??? I just put in two Aquor V2+ hose valves in my current house. Both of my sillcocks decided to develop issues this year. Nothing related to freezing issues though. Luckily. I did Pex-A versions of both. I used a ball valve to shut off the water to it and between the shutoff valve and V2+ I put a tee in and then a drop leg line to a quarter turn ball valve with a pex-a inlet and a MHT on the other. It is basically a quarter sillcock. I used that as a drain shutoff. And with my belts and suspenders mindset I used a cap w/washer on the drain valve. Just in case someone bumped or accidentally turned the drain valve open under full pressure. I wanted to use the loop method that Matt showed when he reviewed the Aquor V2 but didn’t have room so I did a modified version that is fully supported. Just as an FYI… I used the Aquor template to make a jig out plywood with the holes for the body and screw holes drilled into it. Then I drilled my screw holes into the brick and the used a diamond core bit to drill the 1 1/2” holes for the body. Be sure to drill the upper hole at a slight angle upward as the cover plate makes the body sit at a slight angle. You can also use the plywood jig to drill the holes in the rim joist. Hope this helps someone.
I used 2 of the ball valves. one to turn the water off and another to drain the line and let air into the system. I put them on the wall eye height and have a small door on the place where they are. East to turn off, and out of sight. I leave the valve on the outside of the house open all winter.
I have a ball valve inside the house with the freeze proof valve threaded into so when I forget to disconnect the hose and it freezes I can shut off the ball valve to easily repair or replace the freeze proof faucet. The freeze proof faucets work pretty well but do seem to require washer or o-ring replacements more often probably due to over-tightening, as your guest suggested. Outside hydrants have their own problems and are much more expensive to install. Living in Minnesota, we don't mind dealing with the cold as provides us a break from the mosquitos and ticks.
Hi I'm a TEXAS HOMEOWNER. My house was built in 1986. Please attach links in your videos so we can find these suggested Bibs and Shutoff Valves. When I call my plumber I at least want to express to them how important it is for he/ she to upgrade my EXTERIOR BIBS AND TO ADD SHUTOFF VALVES AROUND MY HOUSE but I would need the names and part numbers or a link so we can buy the parts. Great video.......I'll be back to learn more. Thanks😁
I have some of these valves, they're definitely in a class of their own on quality and features (and price lol). I also highly recommend getting a fancy mixing-valve hose bib so you can have hot water outside - if you have the option.
Interesting, but as a plumber I can tell you that the hose bibbs in the real world vary widely in design and instalation. Also, the frost pruf can cause a lot of damage when they are broken and then a hose is put on them and used, not knowing that they are leaking inside the wall.
Always lived in the north where everyone has the frost proof type. Colorado, Illinois, Michigan UP, etc. Rarely if ever shut them off from inside. Also Rarely had to replace the washers. Maybe just been lucky over the 5 houses I've lived in. I always remove the hose during the winter too.
In Norway we use those ani freeze outdoor fausets, we have -30c and we have no problem with those. But ours have a garder gasket with brazz cup behind it. But still dont tight it more after the draining parts starts.
So with that drain cock hose setup, which is great! What are we using to the outside? Using a frost free setup? Then the drain hose cock as a security?
Note: Those Webstone valves are intended for heating systems and not for potable water as the fittings usually contain lead. Note sure how this was missed.
Per Webstone for #40612: "This product is not intended for potable water applications (human consumption - drinking and cooking) and has not been designed to be compliant with the “Safe Drinking Water Act” requirements for low lead in potable water applications. This item is for use, only, in non-potable (non-human consumption) water applications." Question to clarify, is a exterior hose bib considered potable water for human consumption?
Live in Utah. I've only known the frost-free bibs and they've never been an issue (knock on wood). Just make sure to remove your hoses in the winter. They've held up great.
So, in a house that was built in the 1980s and never had any kind of frost-free hose bib installed, how do you retrofit something like this? How do you retrofit the cutoff valve inside if you don't have a basement where that line comes in?
We had two exterior frost free hose bibs that got replaced with fancy new ones (by a plumber) a couple years ago. The original ones lasted 30 years, I had to replace the fancy new ones after one winter.
Frost-free hose bibs work great. However, most people leave hose on it all winter. That is the most common cause of failure I have seen. Also, many are installed back sloped (usually at new homes). Also, frost-free hose bibs less than 6" is useless in my opinion. Freezing temperature most likely will still reach that deep. Basically, if you have 2x4 exterior wall, there is no advantage of installing frost free hose bibs.
@@seanboate9960 Do you even need frost free at Houston? Occasional freeze you get probably won't be a problem even with standard hose bibs. Pipe will not burst as long as freeze starts from a closed end only (from hose bib) Pipe bursts when freeze starts at two different points or from inside towards closed hose bib. This usually happens only with extreme cold. (probably below 20s)
Bought my house in 2016. I think the previous owner had a rupture. The old sillcock was in the basement and the new one is 10in? frost free vacuum breaker and an extra shutoff valve. I'm paranoid so i disconnect the hose, close the valve in the basement, drain the line from the outside then close it, finally adding a foam cover. I wish the inside shutoff had a drain but so far my only problem has been an really fixed leak in the vacuum breaker. I really want an aquor setup because the current sillcock is too close to the ground which makes getting the hose on and off a hassle
@@lambition Yes it is a problem in the houses where I live. 2 yrs ago we had the TX freeze... 3-4 days of high teens to mid 20 temperatures ( yes, here in Houston)... Std bibs and copper pipe will freeze and crack in those temps if not protected. Easy enough to prevent with some pipe insulation but why deal with that when you can just put in a frost free bib? So many people think towels are insulation and used them in the rain then wondered why their pipes froze as it got colder. The WHOLE point to this is just to protect the home. Can the home owner do insulation... sure.. but what if the homeowner is out of town when the freeze comes through? Using bibs is cheap insurance (here at least) and can save thousands compared to broken pipes from an occasional freeze, that, lets face it, most people do not know how to deal with.
@seanboate9960 I have seen people using towels and rags as insulation as well. I guess it will help a little, but getting $5 styrofoam cover at home depot is way more effective. I suppose 4" frost free is good enough in the south.
If you need a place to do a live demo of replacing a hose bib, my house in Maple Grove has one that the seals have gone bad on and has no shut off valve. I haven't been brave enough to turn off the water to the whole house and replace it yet.
Maybe you would know; shut off ball valve seem to have a slight leak (it seems like it isn't shutting down the water like it is suppose to)... any recommendations other then unsolder and change it out besides using compression or sharkbite stuff?
No showing aquor water hydrant was a disservice to your viewers. They are clearly the best hose bib in my opinion and much better than everything you mentioned. Even if they couldn’t sponsor your video
Wouldn’t be hard. Two-three motorized ball 3way valves run off a controller monitoring ambient temperature. The stuff is all on the market just not for that specific application or all in one box
@@sparksmcgee6641 No. You should not leave hose connected. Water will be trapped inside tube and burst. I just replaced on at customer's house because they left hose connected and tube split open inside of the wall. If you haven't had issue yet, you are just lucky. If you leave hose connected on frost free hose bib, you actually have higher chance of bursting than standard hose bib because tube on frost free hose bibs often have thinner wall and since you have valve behind trapped water, there is little to no room for expansion. Pipe will not burst if it freezes from one point only because water will expand into rest of the plumbing. It burst only when there is no room for expansion. So, if pipe starts to freeze from 2 different points, it will burst between those 2 points. Often standard hose bibs that are not winterized, never have pipe bursts because it usually freezes starting from the hose bib, which is exposed to the weather.
If you look carefully at the silcock or hose bib at the beginning, it rises to the valve. It goes up before it goes to the hose connection. It can never fully drain. The bleeder valve on the side of the ball cock valve is most often placed with the handle on top so the bleeder valve is in the middle of the side. It is not at the bottom of the valve so it will retain water up to the middle of the pipe and therefore can freeze and cause a problem. The frost free with vacuum breaker is designed to completely drain and the downward installation angle helps.
Even if the pipe is half full of water if it freezes it won't cause a problem. Water expands as it freezes and this action is what cracks the pipe. A half full pipe leaves room for expansion so it won't spit the pipe
Would any of you kind folk know if a similar valve (shut-off ball valve with drain valve) is available with a 'chain lever' type handle? One problem with these valves up in the basement ceiling is reaching them, especially when stuff is installed under them. 'Chain levers' are common in large industrial valves, but I've not seen them available for small residential applications. -Jon
Two of four frost free valves failed within three years at my new house in Austin. Turned off, there are no leaks, turned on, water pours out from behind the stone cladding. Don't know why it failed or what to do from here.
Question about those frost free hose bibbs. Why in the heck do they put such a tiny orfice in them? You (generally) have 1/2" pipe in the wall and the pipe on the bibb is 1/2", but then the opening where the washer seals is only about 1/4". It cuts the water flow way down. Why waste money installing 1/2" pipe when you only have 1/4" opening?
I turned off the water at the street and we survived the Texas Deep Freeze February 2021 with no pipe issues. Our next house isn’t going to have any exterior hose bibs attached to the house. All exterior garden hoses will be fed with “frost proof garden hydrant” with the shutoff buried two feet below the soil.
@@aayotechnology My plumber is going to run these completely independent of the house. There will be a line that comes directly off the main before it goes into the house with its own shutoff valve.
Ok I’ll bite, if you have a shutoff valve in the basement why do you need to bleed the line at the indoor valve? If you turn off the water with your indoor basement valve in October and you have opened your outside hose bib the water will trickle out. Yes what little water is left in the pipe will freeze but the pipe isn’t closed and any water that does freeze will not exert enough pressure on the pipe to burst. Yes I could see the issue if you didn’t winterize your pipes until the outside temperature has dropped below freezing but if in October you shut off the water and open the hose bib you’ll have at least three weeks for the water to migrate out and any left in the pipe that might freeze will not cause any harm……….written by a guy who lives in an area where we have no basements.
So in cold climates the best practice, belt an suspenders approach is an "isolation valve" + frost free hose bib? If I'm looking at the correct thing on the Lowes website they are about $120 and made for water heaters?
My favorite is when the cheap ones I can’t rebuild fail plus when thy installed it instead of buying a couple of fittings they soldered the pipe into the inside of the threads and I have to do alot more work and some drywall removal to change it
If you ever get a client for this type of product, direct them to videos like this. Also, the Build Show just put out a sterling vid with Daniel, Steve, Zack, and of course . Those dudes could talk all week if you give 'em some pints and a building-science topic. Excellent.
Always put a shutoff for everything. I would not trust the frost free. And the main reason is when that frost free needs parts, as they do, you take off that top cap, without a dedicated shutoff you have to shut the whole house down. Or if you have to replace the entire frost free.
So, in areas where slab on grade construction is most common, how are most folks installing a 6-10” frost proof hose bib in a 2x6 wall assembly? I mean sure, you can get creative with designing some sort of faux interior kick out, or trying to get it lined up with an interior perpendicular wall, but…is that what folks are actually doing? What say you all?
I'd probably have it go into a cabinet where it would be accessible and easily serviceable. I have an encapsulated crawl space in NC and so a 14 inch hose bib was easy enough to install with it going into the crawl space. While it was likely excessive, I added two shut off valves that can be drained inside the crawlspace so when I open both the lower one drains. I was unaware of the hose drain connection option and will consider if for future work.
@@NurseAcrobat Yeah, I could see that, but it would still be terribly tedious to run pipe out of the wall, into the cabinet and give it enough space to then go back out with the frost proof hose bib. You’d basically have to make rough in stubs under a kitchen cabinet or dead space before drywall was ever on and assuming you knew the exact kitchen cabinet layout.
@@jimyeats If still in the planning stages of a slab on grade house I could also see merit in a frost free ground/yard hydrant that could go beneath the slab and skip the wall. Woodford makes them as does Aquor. I personally hadn't liked the idea of needing to screw something into an aquor hose bib to get water, but for something in the yard maybe that would good for keeping it from being bumped into, though it would still need to be protected from construction vehicles.
Cut to the Woodford and you have the 17 instead of the 19. The 19 you don't have to remove the hose ever. It has the oval brown handle instead of the round one.
So true but why be so lazy??? Make a list of the winter things you have to do. I have these on the "reminder" part of my cell phone and they come on automatically.
Probably not "lead free" with the yellow handle, not that I think it's that's bad I plumbed my house with Apollo ball valves and silverbrite 30 years ago and got my water tested many times with no lead detected so. Just FYI
Better check with your city and find out when they stopped using led pipe to connect from the street to the pipe coming into the house. I was surprised to find out that 90% of the connections here in my city are led. Especially if you are in an older area. My area was built up around the early 50's.
DON'T install hose bibs on new homes. It's another penetration, and one that will eventually cause problems through leaks or condensation... Just don't. Instead, install frost free yard hydrants. You can place them where they are most useful and more accessible (so shorter hoses), no penetration in you wrb/air barrier, no chance of flooding your house, self draining, and you can put them all on a single shutoff in your utility room (where it belongs).
So, turn the blender on to the opposite side of the faucet, and your plumber friend just heard of frost free sillcocks…….according to what you said verbatim ……..and…grandpa had instagram in the 1950’s?
I'm 75 years old and never have seen one freeze in any of my homes. I live in Northern Indiana and it gets pretty cold in the winter. One winter the water company told all of us to let a tap run all of the time and they took our use bills from the last winter and didn't bill us for the extra water. better that than having a lot of street connections freeze. The frost zone went down to 30 inches that winter ans most of the street connections were above that.
These dudes want to build million dollar houses. Everything Matt does he's like "oh it's just double the price, but worth it" guess what if you do that everywhere your house cost double
Valve washers need to be replaced every two to three years. Period. All the stuff that's said here ignores that. You can have back-up SOVs and pipe drains all over the place, but you will still need to replace the hose bibb washer every couple of years.
I live in the Desert, those plastic handles probably aren't UV Stabilized and just look like garbage ready to cost you more money and time. Some shovel slides down the wall and slaps and breaks the plastic .... No thank you.
All Stores Please lower the price of all Military and Local for all brands of Plumbing Supply Products and Accessories and Production Cost Now That's too much $$ The Whole World Now Pray
Seriously shocked now that im getting through this video and you dont know about the proper sillcock feom Woodford and i presume some other brands that are similar. The base of the silcock is a foot inside the building envelope.
@@zefrum3 There is a reason Lead-free valves are required for use in U.S. potable water systems. Not sure an inspector here would pass a system with a valve like that in it if they noticed.
