Nice experiment Mazzy! I actually agree with Dr. Robert regarding the Pink Floyd record! No.2 sounded much better to me than 1 & 3. I once experienced the difference between a hot stamper, and multiple copies of the same record with the same stamper number. The hot stamper wasn’t sourced from “Better Records”, it was simply the only copy I owned of this specific record. One of my friends heard it once at my place and was absolutely amazed by its sound. He checked the stamper codes and went on to buy multiple copies of the record with this specific stamper number for cheap. He brought his copies to me and when we listened to them, none sounded as good as my copy, despite having the same stamper numbers as mine! My copy was probably one of earliest copies that were pressed from this exact stamper, and that’s why it sounded so much better. So yeah, I think that hotstampers do exist!
Well done Mazzy!. Quite enjoyed that. Great and timely subject matter . Well done on the discussion and pacing for the video. Spielberg would be proud of you.
Great video Mazzy! I agreed with the judges’ verdict on Big Swifty (I could hear the differences they described, surprisingly, it being over RU-vid). For what it’s worth, I think these differences could easily be down to the cleaning process. From my experience even new records benefit from a thorough wet-clean. Incidentally, I do have a tv screen between my speakers, but like you did today, I cover it with a curtain when ‘properly’ listening. Love your channel. I found you via the When did Eric Clapton become a w****r? video. Keep up the good work!
Made SENSE all the way. Thanks Norman. I think the cost and the hype of vinyl has become a mess. But we keep at it. Glad I kept a collection of LP's, tapes and Cds and keep building slowly of what for me began in 1975/6 at the age of 9/10. My go to in the room is a little bit of Reel to Reel recording when I get the chance. That said I can happily stream myself to sleep or when lazy.
interesting video...from this end, you could clearly hear differences in the sound...but like you say, it's all about the music, and if you're digging what you're listening to, it doesn't matter if there's a 'better' version....the best version is the one that's touching you at the moment....best to all three of you...peace...rocky
Great Mazzy, regular people doing regular listening. I have a handful of hot stampers from Better Records, curiosity softened my wallet over the years. I have an og British pressing of my favorite Beatles album , Rubber Soul . I purchased a hot stamper Rubber Soul from BR a couple of years ago . The sound was identical to my ears on my system. I contacted Tom P., and he commented, “now you know what the best pressing sounds like , you had one all along “ I had the option to return and exchange it, I kept it . Interestingly, the matrix/wax info of both pressings was from the same cut and lot press. What my experience taught me was to have confidence on my ears and trust them . Subsequent purchases from BR were to replace noisy, shitty pressings of a few of my favorites. I had probably spent $150 chasing a good pressing of Steely Dans Kathy Lied , OG’s, In Shrink new, world pressings etc and could not find a satisfying pressing until I got a hot stamper from BR for $200 that sounds fantastic. So, am I believer? Well only in the reality that BR is an option to consider for certain pressings and should be chosen once you have dug a bit for cheaper options. Im looking forward to AP’s reissue as another option to consider as well , the more the better!
IMHO, Better Records are very expensive - currently between $300 and $1,000 - and whether they sound “better” matters to some people. Here's my 2 cents that will hopefully be helpful to anyone considering buying a “Hot Stamper” LP. It's well known that record pressings do have variable sound quality. But vinyl quality isn’t as inconsistent as BR would have its customers believe. Typically, negative sound quality problems are not subtle when comparing to a good to a poor sounding pressing. Bad pressings will tend to have noticeable issues, such as overly high noise floors, wow/flutter issues, lacquer made from crummy digital sources that produce thin sounding LPs, etc. and etc. If the differences are this stark, and people can easily avoid bad pressings, why then do people pay a massive premium for Better R's? There are logical reasons for this. First, the bad pressings aren’t as easy to avoid as you would think, and you don’t find out you’ve got a bad pressing until you play the record. Next, BR does ship great sounding vinyl by finding solid pressings (most of which are very abundant, some - of which are not, depending on the title and pressing history) and then, ensures that the media is pristinely clean before they ship out to customers. The cleaning is probably the most important element in the BR sound quality equation, and less that there is a magic product run that just sounds perfect. My understanding is that BR uses Ultrasonic cleaning a vacuum system to completely rehab used records. Here's a current example - right now they have advertised a copy of Zeppelin 2 for sale for $2500: tinyurl.com/53azj64r . Reading the product description, this copy is a Ludwig pressing - which is the highly superior first press of LZ2 (the "hot mix"). This is one of the rarer BR scenarios in which it’s not easy to find a good copy of this pressing. The pressing history here is that this particular one was pulled from store shelves in the 1st run due to needles skipping when played on cheap turn tables, and replaced with a more subdued mix that didn't skip, but also didn't sound as good. Now, if you take a physically clean Ludwig, which is hard to find, and put it to a rigorous cleaning process (which is knowns to improve sound quality) - you're going to get a great sounding record on the other end of that. Add the fact that slews of online record sellers inaccurately grade media, and you could start to see why somebody with money would skip all the rigmarole and just pay a premium to get a great copy from BR on one shot. Now - does all this translate into a magic matrix #? Or that you want to spend $450 for a copy of the “Eagles Live”. I don’t think so. It means that if you find clean copies of used records in the wild, and then ultrasonically and VPI clean them - you're going to get roughly the same result that BR produces with their “Hot Stampers”. Finding decent used pressings is getting harder and more expensive all the time, and the cleaning machines themselves are expensive - especially the ultrasonics. For myself though, I’d rather go overboard and buy very expensive cleaning systems, rather than buy a handful of records from BR for the same money. Especially given that I have hundreds of records in my existing collection that would all benefit from a rigorous cleaning process. Lastly, the reason for long comment is that this video was totally incoherent as a review of Better Record's product, which is why the comments are important. The video meanders, has lots of unfunny jokes and in the end, this is more a hang-out session for Mazzy and his pals; rather than a serious review of BR’s vinyl product. Whatever, to each their own.
It was exactly a hang out and personal test after a friend loaned me two Better records. Nothing more. I’m not their customer but if someone else buys in , then that’s their decision. 🤷🏻♂️
This is great! Thank you! Were you able to math the volume level on both when you played them? I think the best way to do this would be to have two exact turntables set up and volume matched between the two. You could start one like 10 seconds before the other one and then switch between the two. Then have the listner write down their feelings as they listened or after it.
And this is why I stick to CDs. I don't worry about pressings or cleanings, etc. I am certainly not dumping on what you were trying to accomplish here...in fact, it looked like great fun and I would enjoy sitting and comparing the pressings! But, for me, doing and thinking about this all the time would just get in the way of enjoying the music. I totally respect that it is part of the joy of record collecting for some folks. And that's OK, too. I really liked this video, Mazzy, and I hope you, Dave and Robert do more of them.
Same this happens in CDs but it’s just simplified. CDs have multiple versions that do sound Different. It’s just not as complicated as have individual copies that are different . Cheers.
Mazz I was a Pressman for 6 Mnths back in mid-60s for A&M-All my " HOT STAMPERS' where picked by the Woman who Listened to Copies off Press, Usually around 1:00 pm when boilers and pressing was going strong I have least 100 perfect copies of Pop Music from mid-60s -The word hot stamper really means a perfect copy usually 2nd Stampers do sound better,mainly because of time line when machine & people are at their best after Lunch.
Stamper wear can be noticed on one side of a disc rather than another so that the "Hot Stamper" of the Zappa on side two was inferior to your own reversing the side one consensus isn't so surprising. The Floyd : My own copy is a mid 70's Capitol-Canada with the green harvest label, a little noisy between tracks but better than you'd of thought given it does use US Stampers and I'm pretty happy with it on grounds of tonality. I will add as a rider I do have a number of the 2016 re-issues of other PF titles and agree with Coffee Dave, they are really good to the point that unless you after grails, they are well worth getting not least for the modest cost new. My copies are European pressed. Great idea for a video and thanks.
Mas... You have me looking through my CD's to see what I have... I found a 1945 concert from Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker: Town Hall, NY... Good sound...
Hi Mazzy, enjoyed the video, blind comparisons are the way to go! I would be interested in a blind comparison between the Classic Records Led Zep pressings and the Jimmy Page remasters, i.e. comparing records which have a strongly positive reputation in the VC against pressings which have a negative reputation, to see how it turns out and are the reputations justified… Greetings from London!
Hi Mazzy, I had a UK repress of Achtung Baby and thought it sounded terrible. I bought the 30th anniversary and thought it was a little muddy and definitely lacking seperation and a wide soundstage. Do you have any knowledge of how the original US or UK sound? I am tempted by the 20th anniversary edition with the extra mixes at 45 rpm, but really I am looking for some quality sound for that album. Thanks, Michel
Always can find variation between sides, i have noticed this over the years. Best example I can think of is the original European vinyl version of Hell Freezes Over, the Studio side (1) sounds very bland, The Live sides just pop, best sounding version of Hotel California I have ever heard. You can spend a lifetime looking for the best version of a particular record or you can enjoy the experience of the one you have. Your choice.
Neat video, Mazzy! What kind of gear does your friend Jim who loaned you the records have? I have a theory - he's got gear designed back when records were the only game in town. I've got B&W 805D2 speakers powered by a McIntosh MC152. I was enjoying my hot stampers from better records, but Tom Port's blog got me thinking that I was not getting their full potential out of them. I took his word for it, and he was right. I bought full-range high-sensitivity speakers (Legacy), a generic low-powered Japanese solid state amp from the 70s, and an EAR 324 phono stage, all used. Now, my hot stampers sound far better than they did before, and I've lost my interest in chasing all these 180g vinyl remasters. They just don't sound all that great on a system designed for vinyl playback. Now my listening is all vintage records including quite a few hot stampers at this point, and Tidal streaming for everything that's probably cut from digital anyway. Mazzy, you have a fantastic record collection. I submit to you that there's a lot of musical information hiding in the grooves of all those records that your current system is not able to retrieve. It's not that expensive to buy a system that was designed for vintage vinyl. Give it a try, and let your followers know what you find out!
I typically thought a hot stamper happened in one of 2 ways, either by being pressed by a very fresh stamper, or it was cut a tad too hot. I have an original Dot records 7" 45 single of Billy Vaughn's Raunchy from the early 60's and it sounds like it was cut a bit too hot as the sax sounds a tad over modulated in particular. Also have a very clean, and pristine Beatles Rubber Soul pressing from Capitol, rainbow rim label, one year catalog # and it sounds like it was either barely played before I bought it, what 5 years ago, or it was pressed from a very fresh stamper, either way, sounds phenomenal, a little rich, deeper and very enjoyable sounding. Otherwise, the changes are likely not huge over a run of the mill pressing.
This is a tough topic for me. I’m a huge sound quality chaser, but sometimes when you get a copy that sounds really good, that should be enough. Sometimes you get an older LP that you feel should sound better because of the era it comes from. In that respect, a better LP probably should be sought. The issue here is the effort it would take to do these shoot outs for most people whose job isn’t exactly this. I typically chase first pressings on discogs, and maybe I’ll do some forum browsing. But even that’s hard as it’s hard to ascertain from other people’s opinions. Something else to keep in mind, but it’s hard to beat a good 12” single. Not sure if any of these hot stampers can touch a good single. 12” singles aren’t always a home run, but when done right, incredible. It’s hard to justify a $500 white hot stamper but if it sounds like 40 minutes of singles, it could be. A good reel to reel tape rules all. Best format and no issues with stampers as tape transfers are nice and consistent. I’m talking 2 track 1/4” 15 IPS, but even 4 track 7.5 IPS can be really good. Unfortunately these are hard to find or simply unavailable. A Norah jones “come away with me” tape will smoke any vinyl copy, so no sense in chasing hot stampers for that album, especially if it it’s big money and the tape is “only” $450. If your record collection is large enough, you undoubtedly own a hot stamper or a few just by the percentages. I have a feeling I’ll eventually buy a hot stamper of the Saturday night fever soundtrack as I have been unable to get those bee gee singles to sound good in the few copies I’ve heard or the 7” 45. LOL
Maz, back in the day, when Vinyl was the main medium,did any one do any kind of these " comparisons"? I feel today folks have lots to worry, DSD, A B Comparison, hot stampers, diff pressings, cleaning, ....just a thought
@@mazzysmusic I am with you...things are getting out of track in some of the VC chats, for my taste. For me OG , whether sounds muddy or bright, no worries.
Mazzy, HELP! I don't know what has changed with RU-vid recently but I can't find the additional info like the link to Dr Roberts channel. I'd also like to see if Coffee Dave has a channel. I really am blind and I've been trying to search for Dr Roberts Channel as well as look for the link you said you'd post. I did see one RU-vid link but it was apparently back to your channel when he was on at a different time. I've only been getting back into vinyl again over the last two years and I really enjoy checking out various videos related to the vinyl community. So if you could please send me the link to either and/or both of their channels in a reply, I sure would appreciate it. Interesting video also. With those short samples you did on the two Zappa LPs, what Roberts and Dave said was exactly what my ears thought too. I never had heard of hot stampers until recently and it seems like there's a lot of controversy on the topic. So I'm glad you're doing some comparing. Thanks! Brian in Fort Worth
Neither has their own channels yet. The Doctor will eventually and I will do another video with him once that happens. Our recent mutual video is linked here in the description. ✌🏼
Mazzy .. some of the best sounding music I have listened to have been the ones found amongst Andy Williams and Jim nabors. I am running out of options for places to find the thrift finds here. Although I haven't searched out the dollar bins at People's Records !
@@mazzysmusic Interesting that a US pressing could be anywhere close to a UK for a Harvest/Capitol Floyd album, what with poorer quality US vinyl and copy tapes, etc. I wonder if the A6/B5 Meddle (hot stamper) has HTM in the deadwax. Appreciate the info.
It's a racket IMO. Especially at the prices Port charges. Yes pressings can and do sound different. Better? All in the ear of the beholder and their system.
That was interesting. I don't see a problem with there being a market for service where someone acts as your personal record shopper, picks what they perceive to be the best-sounding version, and selling it to you for a price you are willing to pay. Folks consume records in different ways. Some people enjoy comparing different versions or pressings of a record. It's not for me, but if it's someone's hobby, good for them. With rare exception, if I've got a copy of a record that I enjoy listening to, I'm set. To each their own. I do think playback gear has a lot to do with how a record or recording can sound though. For me I just don't want something to sound 'wrong' in a way that takes me out of what I'm listening to. If there's excessive surface noise or clicks, that takes me out of it. If there's a dullness or lifelessness to a recording, that can take me out of it. Good stuff. Cheers, Tom
Definitely nothing wrong w the business model if there is an audience. But I don’t hear a huge difference in terms of really better ( based on two records) sound. My main criticism is when Tom Port slams others who make really good reissues. And there are many really good ones. Sone that even best OGs.
Even back in the day when I started collecting, we and my friends had found out that some pressings were better than others. This is without us being crazy audiophiles. Back then the country of origin of the recording seemed to play quite a role. However the issue of first or late pressings did not seem to be an issue since back then we were close to the recordings time-wise (at least for the new wave stuff I liked at the time). Now we have come to revise some of unfavourable personal gradings of records from some countries. So i guess we are never 100 % right. It may also be that equipment has improved a lot also (maybe?). As for hot stampers I heard about them recently since I have Always been more into buying new stuff and not many pressings. Even though you could say i have contradicted myself quite a bit when it comes to the Who. Anyway do not ask me to be coherent on this. As you say it is about the music (Even if the sound can be great also😂😂😂). I have However tried to do some shoot-outs between some favorite recordings and i was shocked to hear…. No difference. My ears are maybe shot my years of loud concerts or my set-up may not be optimized. Who knows?
IMHO, Better Records are very expensive - currently between $300 and $1,000 - and whether they sound “better” matters to some people. Here's my 2 cents that will hopefully be helpful to anyone considering buying a “Hot Stamper” LP. It's well known that record pressings do have variable sound quality. But vinyl quality isn’t as inconsistent as BR would have its customers believe. Typically, negative sound quality problems are not subtle when comparing to a good to a poor sounding pressing. Bad pressings will tend to have noticeable issues, such as overly high noise floors, wow/flutter issues, lacquer made from crummy digital sources that produce thin sounding LPs, etc. and etc. If the differences are this stark, and people can easily avoid bad pressings, why then do people pay a massive premium for Better R's? There are logical reasons for this. First, the bad pressings aren’t as easy to avoid as you would think, and you don’t find out you’ve got a bad pressing until you play the record. Next, BR does ship great sounding vinyl by finding solid pressings (most of which are very abundant, some - of which are not, depending on the title and pressing history) and then, ensures that the media is pristinely clean before they ship out to customers. The cleaning is probably the most important element in the BR sound quality equation, and less that there is a magic product run that just sounds perfect. My understanding is that BR uses Ultrasonic cleaning a vacuum system to completely rehab used records. Here's a current example - right now they have advertised a copy of Zeppelin 2 for sale for $2500: tinyurl.com/53azj64r . Reading the product description, this copy is a Ludwig pressing - which is the highly superior first press of LZ2 (the "hot mix"). This is one of the rarer BR scenarios in which it’s not easy to find a good copy of this pressing. The pressing history here is that this particular one was pulled from store shelves in the 1st run due to needles skipping when played on cheap turn tables, and replaced with a more subdued mix that didn't skip, but also didn't sound as good. Now, if you take a physically clean Ludwig, which is hard to find, and put it to a rigorous cleaning process (which is knowns to improve sound quality) - you're going to get a great sounding record on the other end of that. Add the fact that slews of online record sellers inaccurately grade media, and you could start to see why somebody with money would skip all the rigmarole and just pay a premium to get a great copy from BR on one shot. Now - does all this translate into a magic matrix #? Or that you want to spend $450 for a copy of the “Eagles Live”. I don’t think so. It means that if you find clean copies of used records in the wild, and then ultrasonically and VPI clean them - you're going to get roughly the same result that BR produces with their “Hot Stampers”. Finding decent used pressings is getting harder and more expensive all the time, and the cleaning machines themselves are expensive - especially the ultrasonics. For myself though, I’d rather go overboard and buy very expensive cleaning systems, rather than buy a handful of records from BR for the same money. Especially given that I have hundreds of records in my existing collection that would all benefit from a rigorous cleaning process. Lastly, the reason for long comment is that this video was totally incoherent as a review of Better Record's product, which is why the comments are important. The video meanders, has lots of unfunny jokes and in the end, this is more a hang-out session for Mazzy and his pals; rather than a serious review of BR’s vinyl product. Whatever, to each their own.
I believe Tom states he doesn’t do that because even the same exact pressing can sound different between albums and what he’s doing is finding you the best sounding album at the time based on availability.
@@MD-wk3gj So who's going to buy 30 copies of the same Tone Poet title, for example, and rank them all for their differences? That should be the next test.
So the only consensus between two records was the Zappa. Hot Stamper was not out front on Meddle. So this is like how I feel about all this hot stamper crap, in ANY year of issue there will be good sounding and bad sounding records. Remastered/Remixed will suffer the same instance during the pressing stage. Take 3 reissues of the same year from different countries...results will be the same, mixed good and bad
On the Zappa we heard, granted through your mic, the first one sounded like it had more bass but less clear drumming. Second one had less bass but more clear drumming where I could picture the strikes and sticks bouncing up and down. I definitely preferred the first, but I got the impression the second was more crankable. Honestly I'd just be a pleb and stick to your original, Mazzy. 🤔
Slightly off topic. I apologize since I cannot be the first to notice this. When is Coffee Dave going to acknowledge that he is Jon Stewart's long lost twin? If he is not, then where is his "I AM NOT HIM" t-shirt? Look at a picture! Maybe Dave is really Jon's secret identity! signed, CoffeeChris
Always love these A/B shootouts and the feedback afterwards from people on the comparisons....they always remind me of wine tastings....just different terminology...... Hint of Chocolate (Little Punchy) Full Bodied Flavor (Lacking Warm Analog Sound) Very Acidic (Heavy On The Top End) 🤔😂🤔😂🤔😂🤔😂
Where is your lateral thinking? Surely the thing to do is permanently glue your Zappa Side 1 to the Hot Stamper Side 2, if you're at all interested in improving your record collection. Any which way you flip it you then get the best. Plus you wind up with a 260 gram disc. It's the quarterpounder riff on hamburgers. Think outside the box!
Ha. Thing is; both are really good. You only hear the difference when you play back to back. Something I rarely do. And I don’t feel the slightest urge to buy another version of either of these records
@@mazzysmusic What can I say, I gave away my Lin Sondek and haven't played what's left of my vinyl collection for 25 years, hundreds are slumped against the walls on the floor like drunks. One thing audiophiles talk about I do find fascinating: S P A C E. Philosophically, aesthetically, they're onto something. My way into it is literature, writing, but I think audiophiles are talking about the same thing, and Coffee Dave mentions space in this very vid. Still, gotta love Vinyl Richie's piss-take 2 weeks ago in his 'Vinyl finds #171': "The new V-C seems to be, er, all about AUDIO, and the AIR between the instruments. Whereas the old V-C was about the music."
Mazz get a young Educated LISTNER to Listen to records- as us old farts listening 15k &down-where a young Educated Listner has hearing approx 20K "Big Difference
You say you aren’t a audiophile but I don’t think that’s true You have thousands of dollars in gear but you are always chasing for the best pressings It seems like audiophiles aren’t ever satisfied and spend money on different pressings of the same album Nuts!!!
But I don’t really chase the best pressings. I have one Zappa. And two Floyd’s. Never went for a UK version. I do go stereo and mono for many records but that’s about it. Except for a handful of my very top albums I’ll grab an Analogue Productions or MoFi edition. Beatles are my only numerous versions
@@thebuxtstopshere well they do like power. I went from a 140 watt channel Rotel to a 250 watt Hagel last year. World of difference : great midrange and bass response. If they are matched well they can be wonderful. .
@@mazzysmusic agree... heard BBC spec speakers when I lived in Asia...ie inside a persons home weeks on end ... a VTL 200 w amp takes Rogers, Harbeth and Falcon l to next level. Helped a mate here pair his Harbeth with his 200 w Cary power amp vs an underpowered amp. I initially hated Vivids which are assembled in South Africa where I now live. Pair them with the right amp and space and they are magic. I am not disagreeing with you at all. I run tubes and high efficiency at home.. but love visiting power and other speakers at friends and enjoying the music differently.
Robert agrees with Dave, then Dave agrees with Robert. Not very scientific. If I were to say that Frank Zappa's music is hard to like, I don't think he would be offended.
