This happens to be my exact amp setup. So glad to see someone else doing it. Bi-amping is supposed to improve soundstage and tightness of bass, but I actually felt the main improvement was that it liberated the mid-range, making it sound a bit ‘friutier.’ When bi-amping like this you must ensure the two amps are gain matched within a certain tolerance. These two are fine as there is only 1dB difference; 25dB vs 26dB. (Input impedance and sensitivity should also be within a certain range relative to each other too.) These specs aren’t always published so you may have to contact the manufacturer. I like your 2:1 ratio rule of thumb; had not heard that before.
It’s nice having a audio enthuist as a utuber who isn't in producing videos for the money or that's not trying to sale us anything but here to help others with Audio. Great Job TeeJay!!
Thanks Brandon , Non Profit but i am really going to take the Channel to the nexted level at the 1st of the year as in exspensive camera/mics and adventually i do want to set something up for charity or Nortons Children's Hospital 'donations' - even the audio companies can get aboard with 'associate affiliates' Theirs no greater feeling than helping those Children bro !
I have a 1974 Sherwood receiver (70WPC) with "mains in" connectors and I bi-amped it with my Audiolab 6000A. The Sherwood is powering the bass. Huge improvement in dynamics. I more than doubled the power input into my speakers. I can now get the same quality of sound at 10 decibels lower volume. 😀
Thx for this Tee Jay! I have my audio lab 6000a and 8000power amp wired as you described and there is a significant difference. It's not that it's any louder it's more detailed with punchier and deeper base. This has refreshed my Monitor Audio speaker! Excellent stuff, keep it up m8 👍 😁
Great video thank you! Did you see any improvement in volume? I ask because typically when you double the power you get an additional 3db of output. This means that adding an amplifier to an integrated while by-amping could be a solution for someone that wants a bit more volume output, while keeping the speakers they like!
Good question!! And within that question an exposé of the flaw in this video. The volume of the Iota is fixed to the volume of the Audiolab for all levels of the Audiolab treble output. This is very unlikely to be the correct level. It is essential that the power amps are matched by being able to be varied independently of each other.
I've often wondered if someone might use a SET tube amp for higher frequencies plus a more powerful solid state amp for the lows, so thanks for pointing that out. Though I would also think that the more powerful amp would need a gain control in order to match the volume of the lows to the highs, unless you lucked out and they just happened to be a good match "as is". Most power amps do not have gain controls, though some do (especially the more expensive ones).
I would be careful when doing something like this. It sounds like a good idea, but setting a system up like this with 2 difference is just asking for problem. You correctly bring up the level matching that needs to be done. It doesn't matter if there is a big difference in power, or not. You still need a way to adjust the levels. Typically an active crossover is used. But in reality, when you use 2 different amps on the same speakers, you can easily hear it hear it. You may like it at first, but over time it will drive you crazy. And the problems don't stop there. Even if you use 2 amps that are exactly the same, they're not. The amount of power an amp puts out is determined by how much resistance the load (speakers), shows it. And resistance, is a function of frequency. For example, you have an 8 ohm speaker. That number is not constant. its an average. There is only one note(frequency) where the speaker will show an 8 ohm load to the amp. Any frequencies above that note, shows a higher resistance to the amp, and the amount of power the amp puts out decreases as you go up. Anything below that 8 ohm frequency shows less resistance to the amp. So if you have an amp, for example, that puts out 100 watts into 8 ohms, at 16 ohms, its literally a 50 watt amp. And at 4 ohms, it should be 200 watts, or close to it. So, when you have one amp on the lows and one on the highs, the amp on the lows has to work a lot harder than the other one. And that means they'll sound different and put out completely different amounts of power. That's why you need an active xover, because its practically impossible to get the levels right any other way. I've experimented with this many times over the years, and its only a disaster. If you really want to biamp on modern audio equipment, a vertical biamp is the only way to go. To do that, you need 2 stereo amps that are identical. The setup is different. Instead of having one amp for the highs, and the other for lows, each speaker gets its own amp. You run one set of speaker cables off the left channel for highs, and the other channel goes to the lows. Each amp powers one of the speakers. The advantage is that both amps are now working exactly the same, and there's no need to fool with any type of level matching.
Tee Jay, excellent tutorial! Quick question. Did you use pre-out from the Audiolab to feed signal to the black amp? I did not see RCA’s going back to the Audiolab’s Main Out. Isn’t that the trick to use the amps on both units?
@aronsin7777 better bass Attack better dynamic range headroom easier on the amps and like I said in video you can switch them around with LF/HF but does it buttt is the difference in sound a Huge. Change the answer is no espically with budget speakers now once you get up to entry level speakers above yeah you can notice more of difference 😉
Actually sounds good imho but will depend on your taste and your speakers but yeah the preamp in the Audiolab is very good for Pricepoint - and the Iota Pa3 is a Gem for pricepoint very good tonality reminds me of that Vintage flavor balanced little bit of warmth . I have a comparrsion video Iota vs Audiolab check it out i think that video will help ya out
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 yes I was considering buying this iota due to its low price. And linking it up with the audiolab as like you mention, when the volumes turn up I found it struggled. I'm hoping the iota linked up will make it sound more effortless at higher volume.
Great video, and thanks for showing the cable connections so clearly. How would you wire 2 PA3's to a 6000a, so that each has its own channel, one left and the other right? Can't find any videos online on how to do that. Thanks.
Daisy chain - I would use both PA3 in 'mono mode' and run each amp to Low Frequency basically 'bridged' . Cool thing about the PA3 is that you have input and output so you can daisy change amps very cool feature ! Basically run pre-outs to the Pa3 for Right side from the audiolab then run a set of Rca from the RIght side Iota PA3 output to the Left side Pa3 inputs . Very simple - I done this before with the Iota Stack and My dual mono amp the Onkyo Integra M504 i have a video i posted but it was just music playback only -
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 Thanks, so in mono mode you're just connecting the two cables, whereas in your video, you connect 4 in stereo. Wonder what produce the better sound, if any?
I've been wanting to try something like this for a long time now to power my Studio 590's. What I had been considering was 1 Behringer A800 per speaker in bi-amp or 1 Crown XLi 800 per speaker in bi-amp. Wouldn't the volume level be different using different amps for the low and high like this? Also, the jumpers for these speakers scare me that they have the positive and negative layered on top of each other like that and are also somehow attached to each other.
No the jumpers have space inbetween them . Those were just some the company sent their not what comes with speakers gain is 25/26 db most amps are sround 28-29 db
Tee-Jay many thanks for this very valuable instructional video. I am hoping you could answer my next question. Is this setup also possible when the Audiolab 6000a is being fed at the Pre-out input (I believe it's called Power Input) let's say from a Home Theater receiver? Thanks again man.
That is correct you could leave in Integrated amp mode and use preouts of your HTR into the Aux1 input of 6000a but then youd have to control volume with 6000a whatever speakers you have paired to them but it would work but then your coloring the sound with the HTR and 6000a And you'd have to volume match both of them ' the easiest way would to be Put Y adaptors on your Home theater recievers preouts 'instead of 1 left 1 right front preouts you use these adaptors to double the output ' I am about to upload a video on how to do this with a dac that only has 1 set of rca analog outputs how to make it 2 sets ! I been into audio since i was 5 years old hooking up my dads P.A. systems ' I got tricks '
Great tutorial man! The situation is that, my amps don't come with a pre-out nor I had an isolated pre-amp, but my dac have a headphone output. Do you suggest using headphone out as pre-out?
Great Vid Tee-Jay! Something I was wondering about the 6000A Play. Since it can be run separately as a power and pre-amp at the same time, do you think it's possible to connect a tube preamp or buffer between the two sections, So you'll be playing your streaming through the tubes into the power amp section. Bit crazy I know but that's how I roll lol! (it is possible to connect a DSP this way)
I don't have the 6000a play . 😥 I do have the omnia but never tried a buffer except ifi itube2 but i just ran my rca from my dac to buffer then from buffer to my integrated amp
Awesome stuff. How much of a difference in sound do you get from just using the audio lab alone? I mean if bi amping sound 100% then in comparison suggestively what grade gets the one amp by itself. Great speakers btw. 👍
Actually sounded great up to med volumes - about 75-80db but once i added another amp bass attack got better espically at lower volumes and dynamics are much more noticable just a more effortless control - Almost like conparing a 20lb class AB amp vs 40lb class AB amp more body in the mids also . thanks for dropping in But bi-amping doesn't guarantee to have better sound 😃
Hi Tee-Jay and thank you for the great video. Maybe you could help me with this question? I wonder if it possible to use the internal front amp of my receiver and an external 2 channel amp (via preouts of the receiver) for bi-amping front speakers?
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 I have tried it but couldn't get them both working at the same time. Didn't figure out what I did wrong. Never mind. Maybe some time you could do a video about this. It could have helped many people on a budget out there to improve their sound. Thanks for answering and thank you for the great channel Tee-Jay!
@@zubidoc what home theater reciever are you using ? are the preouts from reciever for Zone 2 or something ? It should work you may have to go into your recievers menu to turn on the preouts should work though
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 It's Denon avc-x4700h. I switched it to 11 channel mode and I tried to make it work with front preouts and then with height 2 preouts. But I could only get a sound either from an internal or external amp. Never both of them... Obviously I did something wrong, but don't know what exactly.
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 No problem, keep up the good work you do, I see your improving your vids, just keep it real and honest, that's the best. 😁
Hey Jay great channel, Audiolab has just released the 9000a intergrated amp. Of you ever have a chance to review it, I would be curious how the sound and benefits compare to the 6000a with the 8300xp.
I already ordered the new cd transport As soon as it lands at the distributor Hopefully they send me The 9000a For review - its suppose to be a beast With dual power supplies and Ess9038 Pro dac 😃
@Tee-Jay The Stereo-Bargainphile I can only imagine, after your review with the 8300xp and 6000a, my interested to say the least what your impression will be.
get yourself an active crossover if you're going to do that a lot better, like the BSS FDS 334T 200£ 4wey. it's worth putting a small resistor to the tweeter's 0.5ohms 10w a SMD would be good. and you could use two band-pass filters one for the low-frequency and one for the higher frequency. if they are going down to 2 ohms, but a 1.2ohms resistor in line
Hi, in your opinion, which would be better for sound quality? Your one here, or using the 6000a as preamp, and 2 PA3'S...one for high and the other for low frequency. 3 amps in all, please?
Found it. So for speakers with only 1 set of terminals, just one set of speaker wire is required running from the PA3 to the speakers, along with the RCA connecting both amps via pre out?
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 ive actually got a nad amp c320bee that i could set up to bi wire. Its also 50w into 8ohm. Just feel the PA3 would be good with the single terminal speakers ?
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 yes. What im sayin is i could try out bi-amping all my bi wire speakers. Get an idea on how it improves sound. Cant understand why i havent tried it yet. 12AWG cable to woofers and 14AWG to tweeters. Im hoping lengths are approx the same.
Maybe i should have even more advanced how 2 videos , No i dont lose my sub commections 3 different ways i can use sub outputs 1st off the Iotavx thats just an amp has pre inputs and pre outputs meaning i can use the outputs from the Iota Pa3 to run to a sub left and right rca outputs that are variable , With Iota Pa3 you can daisy chain . 2ndly I could use hi level input active subs meaning i can tie in to either amps speaker output . 3rdly I can use what they call rca y adaptors 1 rca basically equals 2 rca all you need is a signal of 500mv - After i finish 3 reviews i have coming up maybe i will show these advanced know how trick of the trades - Been hooking up my dads pro gear since I was 5 or 6 years old -
Check out my how 2 video on using hi-level output to a powered sub with hi level input - (Meaning amp with no rca sub outputs - ) video has almost 600k views
I have two NAD intregated amplifiers C352 and C370. Along with Rotel Rb981 power amplifier. At presentI am using the C370 as a preamp through the Rotel. With the bi amping method. What would be the best route; using the the two NADs or substituting one of them for the Rotel?
May I know any issue with the gain level between High pass and Low Pass since there were two different amplifier ? Most people go for passive vertical bi amping with two identical amplifiers.
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120It could harm my speaker tweeter sicne I don't have active crossover ? My pre amp will send full range signal to tweeter.
That jumper you took off the speaker terminals looked a solid piece that shorted all four terminals together!......that might prove 'terminal' for the amp were you to connect speakerleads with it in place!!! Having got to the end I was amazed to find you didn't say how you vary the volume of the tweeter compared to the woofer! The sensitivity of the the amplifier you're using for the bass is very unlikely to be exactly right is it! This whole video is misconceived from start to finish....I've come to the conclusion it must be a joke! 'Don't try this at home' as we say over here in England!!!
YEAH, BUT..... You really probably should be using an active crossover net work. Otherwise, how does the one amplifier know that it is only powering the high frequencies? Do you see it does it know that and so it winds up sending the entire 20 to 20,000 cycles to your high frequency drivers which is just not efficient, and it's very possible that by doing this you will damage those high frequency drivers. Then the same thing can be applied to low frequencies. How does that amplifier section know that it's only running the subwoofers or the low frequencies, you see it doesn't. And so you are sending the full 20 to 20,000 cycles to the low frequency drivers as well. Although the likelihood of damage is much lower fact almost nonexistent, you're still being inefficient. Woofers don't really care to see high frequency power. It's all about efficiency. I think you need to re-examine and reevaluate your set up here, and look into doing a to an active 2-way crossover net work.
