One of the luckiest things for the railway preservationists is that Woodhams scrapyard in South Wales was so overwhelmed with easier to scrap wagons and coaches from 1958 on, that even many years later they still had not got round to cutting all their locomotives up. Thus 213 out of 297 locomotives sent for scrapping ended up being preserved instead, helped by cash-strapped new preservation railways being able to pay a deposit to secure engines.
The irony being that it resulted in the survival of lots of GWR, LMS, SR and BR locos. However the one company which had shown the most interest in preservation e.g saving City of Truro etc, which eventually lead to the National Rail Museum, being in York the poor old LNER has due to the location of Woodhams (only one B1 survived there) resulted in far fewer surviving locos. Although recent new builds are improving matters a bit e.g. A1, P2, B 17 planned V4 etc. However when you look at the number of Halls or Bullied Pacifics it is heart breaking to think that there is only one V2 left out of 184.
Indeed. Dai Woodham did our culture an incredibly service just by being willing to deal with wagons first for many years. It's a pity he has no official recognition for it, really. Of course at the same time he is also responsible for the destruction of many unsold locomotives, though alas that is just part of the job.
@@pilotbug6100 I would give just about anything to go back in time and figure out a way to create a USA Barry Scrapyard. Too many good classes were lost to history
Ahhhh yes Billy Butlins,along with Dai Woodham (owner of Barry Scrapyard,who saved many engines from being scrapped as he cut up wagons instead of engines),The National Coal Board and many schoolboys,they saved steam engines from the scraplines in the 1960s-1980s,we should thank them for there contributions to preservation
@@generalsquirrel9548 In a nutshell, the Barry Scrapyard had a large number of wagons it could scrap much faster than the hundreds of steam engines it'd been sold, so for this reason Dai Woodham was willing to hold back on scrapping the steam engines for quite some time, and even sold them to enthusiasts who were willing to pay up and get them out of his scrapyard. It wasn't done as part of some noble act, it was just a happy accident that he had so many trucks to deal with first. Because of this, a large number of locomotives, particularly BR stock and ex-GWR stock (but also including some ex-LMS), survived into preservation. Sadly, these were more or less the only stock the scrapyard could save, as scrapyards elsewhere in the country which the Eastern, Southern, and Northern regions of BR did not use, and thus ex-LMS, ex-LNER, and ex-Southern stock are quite rare in preservation by comparison.
One of the engines that Butlin tried to save was 60014 (formerly LNER 2509) Silver Link, the first of the Gresley A4 Pacifics. Unfortunately, Butlin was unsuccessful and Silver Link was cut up at Doncaster Works on the 7th of September, 1963.
I wish he had been able to. Silver Link would’ve looked good alongside Mallard and Sir Nigel Gresley. But now that I think about it, would Silver Link’s preservation have affected Mallard’s significance? I love Mallard so I’d be worried if something stole it’s limelight.
It’s really interesting that both LMS locos that went to America in the 30’s for the world’s fair were preserved at Butlins (royal Scot 1933 and Duchess of Hamilton 1939) Amazing locos
It's sad to think, but had more scrapyards been like the Woodham Brothers', we might have had more LMS/LNER/SR stock surviving into preservation today. We're incredibly lucky as it stands to have the examples of non-GWR stock that we do.
I thought that because of Woodham's, that LMS and Southern engines did fairly well for preservation - sush as for example, the 80xxx tank engines. Pity that this didn't apply to LNER engines though.
Only one of the Butlins duchess' were ever streamlined, that being 6229, not all of the duchess class were streamlined, 6233 never had streamlining. Billy Butlin's contribution to preservation was certainly more deliberate than Dai Woodham's, both men gave us much to be thankful for
It's a little ironic too because Walt Disney himself loved trains and even had his own miniature railway which he would ride around his studio. Hearing this story about Billy Butlin makes me wonder how this could've been different if Walt Disney had purchased a standard gauge steam locomotive from an American company. I have a number of narrow gauge engines from Latin America are now giving rides at a Disney Resort.
@@lukechristmas3951 Those narrow gauge engines have been running at Disney World since the '70s. All others were newbuilds for the park (Disneyland, Disneyland Paris) or steam-outline loco's (Hong Kong Disneyland).
the story does have a touch of irony, as well as Butlin managed to preserve two LMS coronations. He also tried to purchase an LNER A4 and a Great Western King, but fell out with British Railways over scrap value prices. but we still owe the man a great deal of praise Well done Sir Billy.
What has been forgotten over the years is that Billy Butlin engaged the expertise and knowledge of Roger Bell (who himself has purchased 46201 direct from British Railways)......Roger advised Billy what locos to buy for static display.....he very nearly purchased 46100 himself, but after inspecting it at Nottingham shed decided it was in very poor condition and bought Princess Elizabeth instead. Roger is now in his late eighties and is a lovely quiet unassuming man who should get more appreciation from todays steam enthusiasts who now enjoy these LMS locomotives on the main line.
As someone who grew up liking trains and Thomas the tank engine I love the fact this entire line was preserved by accident. I’m actually building a train museum on Minecraft to honor the old locomotives, especially some of my favorites like the GS4, Mercury, LNER A4 Mallard (I think is the name), and the LB&SCR E2. Love the channel!
why let trains collect dust in a museum when you could have them work! i don't have minecraft but want it badly! if steam locomotives aren't actually in the game is it possible to build on mine carts? if you can why not build the locomotives around the mine carts and have it work?
@@georgieippolito9924 you can do that but it’s tricky. There’s also complicated red stone trick as well. The easiest way is probably a mod. The best I can do is make it look like the trains look like their moving sadly. Like for example on the map there’s a train assembly yard where it has the feeling of them in action in addition to the museum.
@@namarien I know that mod, if it becomes available on bedrock since they now sell addons to pay modders as well I would get it there and definitely try it. It’s already on my radar to keep an eye out for.
As someone who considers the NRM's streamlined Duchess to be among the most beautiful preserved locomotives in the world, hearing how it survived is really cool!
I went to Butlin's Pwllheli as a kid, must have been about 1971. I remember the engine very well, though it seemed a bit dilapidated even then. Glad to know it survived and was brought back from the brink.
We really do owe this man a lot. I’ve seen Duchess of Hamilton, Martello, Granville (the “old shunting engine”) and Royal Scot in person, and they’re some of the greatest locos in preservation. You’d never think a holiday park would end up preserving locomotives, but now I wish more had done it. Maybe we could’ve gotten more LNER in preservation?
Excellent video and very close to home! Just to correct you a little, 6203 Princess Margaret Rose is on static exhibit rather than in running condition and is owned by the Princess Royal Class Loco Trust, who also own and Run 6233 Duchess of Sutherland. Another addition to their collection are 2 21" gauge Princess Royals 6201 and 6203 which I believe came from one of the butlins resorts and are on static exhibit (though I think they do run every now and again being petrol engined) along with the full size 6203 at the West Shed at Midland Railway centre
Note: Butlins could have saved 2 more locomotives from the scraplines. These were GWR 6000 King 4-6-0 no 6018 King Henry VI and LNER A4 4-6-2 No 60014 Silver Link. But the sales didn't happen and both were scrapped.
Sir Billy Butlins was the best person in the world I am a big fan of butlins he did lots for railway preservation if it wasn't for him the Royal scot and duchess of Hamilton would not exist today.
Imagine, having the, THE railway trhow you out, to some random holiday "camps"as a display and then get either reinstated as an express engine pulling excousions or to THE NATIONAL RAILWAY MUSEUM, where youll be kept in LMS days order for likely as long as humans exist
Can you do a video about how the LNER and Southern Pacific both had express locomotives called the "A-3s" and both locomotives had a top speed of exactly 100 mph?
I am officially a fan of Billy Butlin, whom I never heard of before this video but it's all okay now because I've watched the video and now I'm a more educated person!
I did know about Billy Butlin but only that he preserve the 4 LMS express engines i didn't know that he preserve The 3 Terriers and the old dock yard tank engine i was a surprise for me
It's a deep shame and embarrassment that a lot of classic U.S. trains went to the scrapyard without a similar effort to preserve them. The Milwaukee Road scrapped every one of their famous steam locomotives that hauled the Hiawatha, the Pennsylvania Railroad has a single M-1 Mountain and like 2 K-4 Pacifics that survived, and the New York Central did not preserve a single Niagara or Hudson and went from 600-some Mohawks to 2. And not one of those railroads survived with the money from the scrapyard either; the Pennsy wasted a tremendous investment in terms of money spent on construction vs. the return value. An absolute waste.
The worst part is that the NYC scrapped some of the most famous engines in history... Because the director of the company didn't liked steam trains. He thought they were "too old fashioned".
We are lucky to have two, fully functional Big Boy engines here in the US. One just recently saved from decaying into a pile of rust in a part in southern California.
I did two seasons at Pwllheli in 1973 and 1975 and used to walk past one of these fantastic locos on my way to work from blue camp staff chalets to the Windsor Dining Hall kitchens. It was great fun. I was also there when the Gaiety Building burned down.
I remember the Princess at the holiday camp near Port Madoc in the 70's my kids crawled all over it. By then it was looking very drab and weather beaten. Glad to here it was rescued and restored
Where I live the Isle of Man Railway is still using... well, it's not one of the original locomotives built in 1873, it's one they got built in 1874, in mainline traffic. 2 of the 3 original locos are preserved in museums though. They also still use a bunch of later steam stock, and almost all of the steam locomotives they have operated through the years are still preserved, either in museums, in working order or undergoing remedial work.
I know this is gonna sound really American but in Texas there’s a locomotive I don’t remember what number it is but it’s a steam engine and it’s basically like what he just said you can go around and mess with the controls
That hoopla stall belonged to my great grandmother, she had a number of stalls which she hired out. Billy had no money at the time so my G'mom let him have the first day hire free to make enough to hire the stall the second day, the rest as they say is history.
A video on the american locomotive GTW 5629 would be a great thing to see. The tragic story of its owner how metra and the rock island scrapped the locomotive because it couldnt be moved, without offering to move it
There's more to the story, as I have read an interview in Steam Railway magazine revealing previously-little known information from someone that had even more of a crucial role in the preservation of the engines by Sir Billy Butlin. Now I'm remembering what it said 'on the fly' and it isn't exact but without pinpointing where the magazine is among my extensive resources, this is what I gather; a Mr. Ogg - factual name - was on the board of directors at Butlin's, and he followed up on the interest of an enthusiast who wanted 'Royal Scot' to be saved for posterity when it was withdrawn; it was Mr. Ogg who put forward to Sir Billy Butlin that preserving engines from British Railways was a sound idea. They got in contact with a control manager working for the London Midland Region of BR, who was able to help them get a good deal for 'Royal Scot' along with 'Princess Margaret Rose', including a fair price tag for cosmetic attention at Crewe. The control manager also had prior career experience on the Isle of Wight during when the ex-LBSCR Terriers were majorly associated with the latter, so also had a part in Butlin's securing the four tank engines acquired from the Southern Region and refurbished at Eastleigh. The two Duchess Pacifics were withdrawn together at Liverpool's Edge Hill depot and purchased potentially by Butlin's in a good two-in-one deal. There were also attempts to purchase A4 'Silver Link' and GWR King Class 6018 by Butlin's, but there was conflict in interest on the latter as actor Kenneth More, who had previous experience with running trains notably for the production of the 1959 film 'North West Frontier', was apparently also interested in preserving 6018, whilst purpotedly the Eastern Region was charging Butlin's too high a bill for cosmetic attention to 'Silver Link' over at Doncaster and presumably Butlin's dropped it in favour of the good deal they were getting at Crewe. Regards, Samuel Farris.
tens of thousands of children interacted with the steam engines at camp, those same adults now fund their preservation. I doubt the current enthusiasm would ever have happened had not one showman given kids the chance to 'interact' with the engines. Art follows life which follows art.
Something like this happened here in Puerto Rico. There was this man who build a park with rides and everything and one of his main rides was two steam locomotives which passed through the sugar cane fields in Fajardo. Sadly it only lasted for five years until a big storm flooded the park. He had to sell everything, he also had about five more steam locos for display. Sadly those didn’t survive but at least the two functioning ones are now at a Venezuela museum.
Both Princess Margaret Rose and the Duchess Of Sutherland are based at Midland Railway Centre as part of The Princess Royal Class Locomotive Trust having been bought by Mr Brell Ewart of Ashbourne. The PRCLT is based at West Shed and is worth the visit on its own.
The Duchess of Hamilton was restored to Mainline running condition and did a lot of rail-tours between 1980 and 1996, in its no -streamlined form. The NRM has a policy of not steaming engines if there is another of the class in working condition. So since the other Duchess started regular running, the Hamilton was stuffed and mounted, and more recently the streamlining was added. Most people who wanted to buy express steamers couldn’t do it because they had no space. Butlin was lucky he had the space! I’m surprised more people didn’t buy Terriers off BR. They take up little space, are easy to maintain, and they were only £500. Another cool thing about Butlins was it inspired the BBC series “Hi-de-hi” which is one of the best sitcoms of all time.
Bro, this dude sounds like Ayn Rand/Ron Paul's dream. Up there with folks like Coco Chanel and Andrew Carnegie; the ground up story, how have I not heard of Sir William Butlin before. Thanks for the video.
The angle that the image at 1:52 was taken makes his earlobe line up with his cheek in such a way that his cheek looked like it was punching off the side of his face. I had to pause and squint it weirded me out so much, since it looked like the act of smiling had broken his face.
I remember climbing on either a Duchess or a Princess as a boy at the Minehead Butlins camp in 1969 I think. I was four or five at the time. I think I have a photo in a large box of unsorted slides somewhere.
@@neddyl1225 I found my old photo and it was the Duchess of Hamilton, which is now in the York Railway Museum in her original streamlined configuration
He was one of the originals to see their worth even after their life span, by his very unique and interesting mind set, and which lead him to become a millionaire many times over
oh! this reminds me of the thing that happened to the tweetsie no.12 engine which is the only surviving engine from the ET&WNC railroad(Eastern Tennnessee and Western North Carolina) um it was purchased originally by enthusiasts..then gene autry and then finally by what would end up being Tweetsie's savior Grover Robbins Jr who built a theme park around the history of this engine and he later got another engine destined for the scrap heap called the 190 yukon queen it was a military steam engine from alaska and im not entirely sure if he was responsible for this but the sister engine to the 190 yukon queen klondike katie as its affectionately named actually resides in a theme park pretty close to the tweetsie railway in pigeon forge tennessee shes owned by Dollywood
Yes, Robbins, and his family in general, is responsible for Dollywood's existence and the resulting careers of both 70 and 192, though the Robbins family had sold the park before the Dollywood moniker came about.
I remember playing on the footplate of the Princess Margaret Rose at Pwllheli when she still looked pretty, but the salty air can't have done her much good. I was working in the telephone exchange in Hurst Street Birmingham when The City Of Birmingham engine arrived by road at The Science Museum, where they built a special hall to exhibit her. Does anyone know where she is now? Also as a child I remember seeing two green highly polished railway engines double-heading the Royal Train when H.M. King George & family visited Stratford-upon-Avon. Can anyone please tell us more about them and if they were preserved? Sir 'Billy' Butlin also owned a fairground organ which a late friend of mine bought and kept just outside Stratford-Upon-Avon and exhibited at Tewkesbury and Welland Steam Rallies (The latter rally will run again this year 2022 after 2 years locked down). When my friend passed away, the organ was taken down South to a museum somewhere, but I don't know where.
Hold on, but an 0-4-0 was shown in the video, if that was actually at one of these resorts, what happened to it, since I noticed it is not mentioned in the video at the end
