Interesting little clip about how a Neumann U87 microphone is manufactured. Pretty fiddly, with a ton of hand labor - no wonder they're so freaking expensive!
I've (rather stupidly) read through the comments in reply to this video with many people comparing this U87 to the SM57 and a '$300 Rode'. I am lucky enough to work in a studio where we have all of these microphones which are all fantastic at their given job. If you want mid-range harshness, such as recording a distorted guitar, use a 57, if you want sensitivity in the high end, for example recording a 'roomy' acoustic instrument, use the Rode (just have a good room), but I can honestly say this. Put the U87 on anything. ANYTHING. And it sounds chuffing marvellous. Literally every time. The circuitry is witchcraft and not created on a sweatshop factory line, they're engineered in Germany. The price isn't 'several thousands' either, it's just shy of £2000 and worth every damn penny. Screw this, I'm going to go and record some harlot with my U87, watch her reaction to the tone and bend her over the desk. Ciao.
I recently purchased the TLM 67 and have another 10 days left in the "trial period" (so to speak) when I can decide whether or not to keep it for good. While I love how it sounds on my guitars, I think my expectations on vocals were a little misplaced and i'm wondering if I should just trade it in for an AKG 414 to tie me over for a couple months and then just buy the U87 instead. Would you happen to have a professional opinion on that, or would you suggest just keeping the TLM 67 and focus upgrading my pre-amp instead? I'm using the Steinberg UR824 as my pre-amp, by the way. Thanks.
I see and at the making of the Video £2000 = $3500-$4000 so yes Several Thousand Dollars is correct. Considering the U-87 has been produced for well since 1987 the fact the price hasn't dropped is outstanding. And I hope you enjoyed yourself Ciao
What a great video! I've always wanted one of these but they're a little above my budget. I've used them in studios though, and their sound is incredible.
Yes its very expensive, but no its not ridiculous. Neumann manufactures some of the greatest microphones I've ever heard. Yes there are other alternatives but this is still an incredible piece of gear.
+JW Dewdney Expensive for home use and expensive for professional recordings have two very different meanings. If the mike sounds right on the source then it's that mike that's getting used. Why is sensitive better and what in gods name is smoother?
+JW Dewdney Expensive for home use and expensive for professional recordings have two very different meanings. If the mike sounds right on the source then it's that mike that's getting used. Why is sensitive better and what in gods name is smoother?
+NicenEasyuk you can use whatever adjectives you want to describe the 'sound' of a microphone. I'm just saying you can do a LOT better than Neumann for the money - they are very overrated... if you go to the trouble of seeking out the good ones you'll never go back to a U87 for example - because it will sound like an SM57. Vive le difference!
I use absolutely loads of microphones, in a nice studio, all the time, and have done for years. The U87 isn't my favorite but it's a damned good microphone. The only issues I have with it, is the box hinges are made of brass and the little spikey bits end up getting all chewed up with years of use. If you don't like it, that's fine, but there's been plenty of 100 piece orchestras out there making good use of U87s in some of the biggest Hollywood hits of all time, it's featured on more number ones than your ears have probably laid ears on, If you prefer other mikes and think it's over priced, that's OK. But understand most people think it has many useful applications and the build quality is reflected in the price.
@simonbjr18 I believe its the character that the u87 has that keeps it so desirable. I just bought one and I think it really depends on your signal chain that the mic is going through that will truly allow the user to appreciate its quality.
Something to consider: these mics are almost not depreciating: you won't get a 30 year old one below $3000. So buying it is more an investment than just a "buy".
Just think about how a large multitrack mixing console changes the sound, not to mention all of the effects applied to vocals, etc, and you could saturate analog because it sounded good up to a point, so a lot of it was designed for careful overloading. There were no digital effects, if you wanted a non spring reverb you had a basement below the studio with speakers on one end, and microphones on the other and they recorded into the room and rerecorded. Phil Spectors 'wall of sound' used this
@romanoskar Thats the3 main reason why Motörheads Lemmy still uses a Shure SM 57 as a vocal mic. They are most commonly used as pickup mics fur guitar amps.
The actual mic design is not complicated. The important thing is to make sure all the components are exact or exact enough. It’s a relatively small staff that makes these microphones so the teamwork is tight which is an advantage for quality control. When you get a new U87, most likely it’s flawless
If it lasts at least 30 years as your main mic and you’re getting great recordings, then It’s probably worth it. Also, if something goes wrong, I’m pretty sure it can be repaired and be brought back to specs.
@TheOrderoftheOwl Personally, it was the acoustics of the recording studios and the practices of the time. I started recording in the late 70s, and remember how we got that "70s drum sound". It was all about paper towels, and duct-taping the drummer's wallet to the snare. I prefer to record digitally, and dump tracks to analog as an effect. You're not going to lose the best characteristics of digital, and have a choice of how hard to saturate the tape after the fact.
Here's a suggestion: Visit a cooperative dealer. Have them set up an array of mics in a quiet room at a wide range of prices. Have them all run into a mixer. Then, try them one at a time listening through headphones. And here's the tricky bit - do it with a blindfold on and with nobody giving you any clues what mic you are singing onto at any time. I predict that you'll find any number of mics in the $300 and under range that will sound amazing.
These microphones are normally used for studio, I used one for live...... for miking up an accapella Group. It did not need much tweaking and it sounded awesome. Each to his own. i swear by them others may not and use something else.
One of the advantages of the U87 is that it’s already proven to sound good. So it’s a safe choice. You could use a cheaper knock off brand and it will probably still sound good but with the U87 you get that “peace of mind”.
To answer your question, recording techniques and technologies have changed. For a vintage sound you mainly have 2 rules. Analog and tubes. But it's more than that. They didn't just plug guitars and mic's directly to a tape recorder and make a record. Compressors were different back then, amps were different, EQ was different, noise reduction was different, all of these things add up to the dynamics, timbres, and sounds of vintage recordings. You need a lot to make something sound old.
"This plastic membrane has been coated with real gold to conduct electricity." 2:13 ..but silver is the best conductor. Then again, they probably use Gold because it won't rust.
The metalization is sputtered onto the membrane material under a high vacuum. high-end microphones use gold, but cheap, commodity capsules use aluminum.
@TheOrderoftheOwl Don't forget too that the players are different. I did sound for Ray Charles in the 80s, and he wanted to recapture the sound of his big band from the 60s. Only vocal mics. The problem is the young players really did not know how to play quietly in a band like the 60s guys did (who learned from the players of the '40s). So I had to sneak a mic in under his piano after sound check (which was a shitty thing to do to a blind man, but what can you do?)
@simonbjr18 I certainly will throw up a link on a song or two I will be doing with the U87 on vocals. my signal chain is U87-mogami gold 2534 quad cable with neutric connectors-avalon M4 or UA 610 solo or both-mogami gold 2534 quad cable with neutric connectors-apogee ensemble-protools. i will post soon!! so you know i do hip hop/r and b music and record anything from rock to classic.
You wouldn't think this mic costs thousands of dollars based on the simplicity of the manufacturing process. Blows my mind that the capsule is done by hand. Thought this would require exquisite precision only a machine can offer. So why is it this expensive? How much does it actually cost to build one and how much are you paying for the brand?
Mostly paying for the Neumann brand. an RK47 (remake of the original k87 the u87 uses) capsule is around $100, a transformer is around $90 for a high quality transformer (Cinemag tranny is around $40), and the components come to be around $45, depending on where you get them. The body Is expensive (Around $100 or more depending), unless you can manufacture one yourself, and you'll need a PCB to solder all of the components to ($20). Alternatively you can buy kits to make U87 style mics (not exact replicas) for around $350 right now. Obviously these usually don't come with the box or shock mount (add another $150). Shipping if you skip the kit and source the parts yourself could easily land you an extra $50. Right now the U87 Ai Set Z is retailing $3,599.99 on sweetwater.
it's expensive cause it's guaranteed to work out of the box and uses an older (argued better) building process. All hand made like any chinese product only each person makes around $35-$50 an hour to make it. Component/material wise they could make the Microphone a 3rd of the price but why bother. They're the best in the business.
After observing this once again it confirms that Neumann somehow just throw their microphones together.. WITHOUT GLOVES and NOT in a vacuumed space that you’d find at the RODE Factory. It confirms that Neumann’s ‘Magic’ is in their Electronics, not their incredibly stringent applications.
"Once the microphone has passed this test, and some other checks, it's time to pack it up with great care..." Some "other checks?" Wait...did you just "yada, yada, yada," the rest of the process?!?
I can see were your coming from Michael, but as a professional I back up the U87, my main reasons is because of its amazing frequency response you get from this mic and the fact that you can change the pick up pattern from Cardiod to omni and figure 8, it has awesome capabilities. all the components that are in this mic are very high quality with precision engineering. And yes i agree there are plenty of mics out there that are great as well, i say the U87 is like the Lambo in the mic world :)
@simonbjr18 Maybe not the best, but for many, preferred. Nowadays you can buy a very good mike for $250, and there are dozens of names. When I got into the biz, it was Neumann, AKG, Beyer, Sennheiser, Shoeps, RCA...that was about it. A U87, as seen in this vid, was considered a poor replacement for a U67 back in the 70s. I'd still take an M49, U47 or KM86 over a U87. But times have changed, and I'm surprised how well my $100 MXL performs. Not as good as a U87, but for the money...
@sifs4 when you think about it, most high end gear, even though much better most of time, only shows its true potential through extremely expensive monitors and listening rooms, which 99.5% of the masses do no have... which is why in recent times low fi recording in indie has caught on so much, since low end is getting better most people can barely tell the difference anymore besides trained professionals.
Seriously though, if you've taken a microphone apart, they really are that simple. Also, this is for a general interest TV show, not a special-interest audio program.
Seeing the backplates of condensers brings to light one reason why they have extra (artificial) highs compared to, especially, ribbons. Resonances in those tiny drilled holes will created their own "ear-candy" as i like to say, in the very highs as will standing waves due to the close proximity of the plates and other membranes. Also, round elements 'suffer' from resonances just like any round membrane will have resonances (drums, cymbals, etc). Dynamic mics also have these issues.
yea... but the u87 is still moderately priced compared to u67, which goes for about $8,000 used on eBay. OR the Neumann U47, which you'd be extremely lucky to find for $10,000. OR the Telefunken U47 and the Original AKG C12, which you won't even find anywhere lol. OR the Sony C800g ($7,000).
Similar mics cost the same. Such us AKG C12VR etc. ''Similar'' means to me ''the same quality'' There are several qualities in condeser mics. This is one of the best. Even thought, you can't tell that is the best mic generally. The ''best'' depends on your needs.
the sound is also due to the acoustic and position of mics & musicians. In the 70's they didn't use one mic for each instrument (or several as we do now) and all was in the same room and recorded at once ... search for the video called : EDITED VERSION OF THE TEMPTATIONS IN HITSVILLE STUDIOS RECORDING (and don't miss the blanket over the piano)
Brand recognition is probably the biggest reason. Circuit boards and electronic components are actually cheap. The housing may cost more since it’s probably made in small quantities along with the capsules. There’s probably a lot of testing to each microphone to make absolute sure you don’t get a dud so that could also be a big factor.
Haha i love how they completely gloss over the most interesting part of the making of a microphone. "they put these metals together in such an such a way for whatever reason who cares.. then they add the DEFINING ELEMENT OF THE MICROPHONE.. then"
@darksith36 i was totally in the weirdest way agreeing with you though. in some cases it is overpriced crap, but we are so conditioned to think that price = quality. I work in retail, I know how much stuff REALLY costs :) so I know whats super overpriced and whats moderately overpriced. infact im gonna check out the U87 and see what it costs.
@@mytubeyou247 He is right though, we all know how circuit boards are populated/inductors are wound and it is no exclusive process to this mic. all exclusive processes have been shown!
Ye that's a bit odd. There is no secret method to their electronics. It's just very good design. The vast majority can be sourced from third party companies hence the many clones since the U87 became popular. You are basically paying for the tough quality control so you know your mic will still work in 2080.
