I like that out of all criticisms for "What is the plot becoming" no one references the fact that the unconfirmed "source of all life" is a glowing centipede that turns people into titans and then disappears and no one in universe talks about it ever again
it's a prehistoric organism called hallucigenia that lived about 540 millions years ago. It's actually a really puzzling creature because it was so alien that we still don´t understand it´s anatomy very well and who is it closest relative in the animal kingdom. It was such a surprise when i saw it while reading aot and i was expecting something to happen with it but it just never did lmao. I bet isayama saw it in a blog or a book and thought it was cool and just put it there.
@@terrapvp Havent seen Death Note. But i get your sentiment. In attack on titans case, its an unexplained element of the world, whose mystery leaves the readers head scratching without making the world feel more interesting. You can speculate about the origin of the Source of all Life but atleast for me none of the answers create a compelling answer to the more important mystery: "What is the source of titans in the first place?"
@@M.W.2 Its not, but first , know what consequences that has, limit the ways to do it and dont let it break what you made, time travel can be sparse or limited enough to not mean anything, but , yeah ther is no limit.
The issue with eren killing his mom was it was something explained when we already had a reasonable explanation beforehand. It was just something out of left field made for the sake of shock value when everyone else already previously understood why it happened. They've already told us that abnormal titans don't behave the same way, Dina was an abnormal titan and in her final moments before becoming one she told Grisha she would find him no matter where he was. That was it, that's the explanation that I and so many others had already accepted, so this twist ruins absolutely everything about that notion or about abnormal titans
This is a great point, and to add on top of the nonsense, why is Eren "forced" to kill his mom because of destiny/determinism? Why isn't Eren forced into decisions he would naturally make? Eren would never, ever kill his mom, it's just not something he would do. So the determinism angle is just a band aid for bad writing in hopes that no one notices.
@@loayzc10 Eren wasn't "forced", the literal whole point is that it was his own actions, in order to create the future he sees, that kills his mom. Pay attention to what the story is saying.
It was a bad explanation, Grisha wasn’t in the house, she never found Grisha. Dina also eats people if she can, she doesn’t ignore them, so her ignoring Bert was a mystery that had yet to be solved.
I think this sums it up for me: The appeal to Eren, and the overall story, used to be his false sense of agency being repeatedly torn down by the insurmountable cruelty of the world around him, and then his admirable attempts to influence his and his friends’ fate in spite of it. By the end of the story, it’s revealed he literally had ALL of the agency in the world, and it was himself who brought him to this “predetermined” and “tragic” end. This completely changes one of the biggest narrative themes of the story, all for the sake of an ironic twist that’s convoluted and not quite convincing.
The biggest pill to swallow is that Eren could influence events in the past that led him to his experiences and decisions in life, and then we’re supposed to believe that because of this he could never find a way out of the fate he saw and that it was only ever gonna go one way. You can’t give the character that much power and agency and then expect us to believe he actually didn’t have any, just because he says so. The ending simply tells me Eren is a little bitch who set himself and the world up to fail because he’s a little control freak who can’t even man up to Mikasa because he’s so arrogant and cowardly
He couldn't do everything, such as the attack from Marley was inevitable. Also he had his own desires which pushed him to free Ymir and his friends despite having to do the Rumbling. The only thing that's ``weird```is that if he could control Dina's titan then why didn't he at least take time to control some random other titans to save the lives of some random soliders? Anyway I think Isayama could have thought of an excuse like ``He could only control Dina's titan because royal blood`` or something like that. But he didn't so now we can only assume unfortunately.
Slightly wrong, he was responsible for the actions he took but at the quote from Historia at the end pretty much confirms that it wasn't just Eren running things. This future was created by all their decisions. Eren might have made the more impactful one's but he couldn't truly control everything.
@@ether2275 does the technicality of Eren not being fully in control really change much though? He still had more potential for agency than anyone else despite his initial appeal being his lack of and striving for agency. You can argue because Eren becomes a paradox there is still some level of a lack of control happening, but I think even the idea that Eren was partially responsible for his own tragic origin just shifts your opinion on him drastically.
@@Gatekid3 Yeah, Eren was definitely in control of his actions and he did say that it all happened because he wanted to do this. Even if he had seen the future that could not be changed his actions were all taken by him and no one else. It is implied that this is what Eren would've ended up doing regardless of seeing the future or not.
Completely agree with all of your points in this video. Trying to explain to friends and others how this ending didn’t satisfy me always comes with comments like “you just didn’t understand the story” “go read it again” and “you just don’t know what isayama was trying to say” or the best one “ it was foreshadowed”.
I tapped out once amnesia magic became a thing. Once you introduce something that can break that many narrative rules it just becomes a soap opera level mess.
That was the first part of the series that I adamantly disliked but not enough to ruin the whole story for me. There were so many great moments after that until time shenanigans and predetermined destiny bs came into play
@@brycemkw This story become a love story out of nowhere, ALL the themes got erased to become a cheap Korean romance. I dont understand people who think Eren and mikasa make a good couple for me to feel sorry for their "tragic love" They dont even have chemistry. Hell makes more sense Eren being gay for Armin
@lain5858 The thing is, are the themes were still there with Mikasa and Erens relationships and the ending being more about how everyone is a slave to something just like Keane. Rather it was a personal or physical restraint they are still bound by it and we see this with Mikasa with eren, and eren with his ideals. Mikasa's was a slave for the love she had for him which has been shown since the first couple of arcs, the only way for her to be truly free is to cut off the chains binding her. Eren was a slave to his ideal and his dream for freedom, he was to caught up in them to see any other future he could have. This is a theme with almost every character in the series so saying it throughout it themes and turned into a k-drama is just down playing what happened. Eren and Mikasa relationships could have been handled much better but they never erased any theme of before.
@@franklinumweni2359 This is Kenny's life mantra but not the only main theme of the entire story. Eren himself have his own themes and dilema Same about Eren being a natalist "Because i was born into this world" The main themes of this story are "the sins of the father" (Youg Eldian generation having to pay for their ancestors) (Grisha as Rod puting on their children the burnden to "save the world") "Surpassing the father" Should be the end of Eren's character arc. When he dont pass the curse for his Future generation (But this got retconed on chapter 139) "the right to have freedom as a natural right." Like the king Carl Fritz wanting Eldians to be jailed and Eren being his oposite "the price of freedom" where Eren had to do the rumbling to break the Titan curse just to create a *future* where Eldian children can born without having to become titans Eren on chapter 130 "Children having to eat their own parents. I Deny such future" And "making choices without regret" Where Eren would trust in himself and not let Paradis be doomed on their own fate (another thing retconed on chapter 139) But what we got in chapter 139? Armin: "Eren you commited genocide but lets talk about Mikasa" Why Mikasa is the choosen one? "Only Yrmir knows' 🤷🤷🙄 -Yrmir was already freed by Eren in chapter 121 using the same words Historia Said to him on the raiss cave making the story going Full circle. Yrmir was a person with a slave mentality who choose death to free herself but become tragic for still being slaved AFTER death. What we got in 139? Nah... its now a pedo love story (that only makes sense in some sick hentai) about a sadistic loli who we should feel sorry for slaving her people and commiting genocide because she cant get over her crush. Then Just a necrokiss Will save everyone from this 2000 years curse.🤮
I'm one of those people who liked enough elements to the ending to consider it good, but I perfectly understand where you're coming from. Eren loving mikasa was not established at any point in the story prior, nor did him letting his mom die change anything about the story in a meaningful way. Only being a stupid shock twist, making the story worse.
Eren using the smiling titan adds even more pain to his trauma. He's had to make an extremely hard decision and it shows his determination. Also likely why he's felt so emotionally detached in season 4, after having to do something like that.
@@beastvicious8672No not really at this point in the story we already had the moment where he maninpulated his dad into doing the exact same thing he despised him for in season 3, and he was willing to shater the chains of paths to accomplish his goals, reinforcing his determination with this twist, is uncessary, since we already know he is willing to (regretably) sacrifice people he cares about earlier in season 4.
Eren loved Mikasa but he kept hus feelings aside for many pressing reasons and hence never let anyone know about it, especially Mikasa. He stopped being a dik to her after she confessed how she actually views him and appreciates him as the reason of her existence, when Dina's titan was approching them, up until that point he misunderstood her protectiveness and care, thought that she does it all because she thinks he is a weakling who can't do shit. He never confessed because he got to know about how his life will be ending in a few years, and he saw how Mikasa had stopped eating after the that revelation. He was the only one who noticed and asked her why she is looking all malnourised and weak. He had no choice. He knew his time would be up and there's no point in letting her know his feelings and make it hard for her than it already is. Eren even tells the same to Zeke when Zeke asked him what will he tell Mikasa now that it is clear she is in love with him. Their deep bond was established from the start and got the development and conclusion it required in the story. Their pairing was not shocking, given the nature of AOT.
@@Tatakhae Eren, who would cry in front of everyone with no shame, act so cringy at times, never scared of saying what's in his mind until his s3 deprssion, who was the only one who didn't undertand that Hitch loved Marlo, was apparently deeply in love with Mikasa and hid it so perfectly that no one saw that coming
@@daeith1233expressing love is not the same as expressing other emotions without shame. It's not an easy task for a lot of people, they either have issues with being vocal about it or are too prideful, arrogant, or even too shy to let their person know how they feel. Notably, his behaviour changed a lot after Mikasa confessed her feelings and let him know that she values him not only as someone she cares about but also because she has feelings for him. He was more accepting of her care and affection. Until then, Eren would be annoyed by her show of concern and protectiveness and would push her away. He thought she cares for him like a mother/sister would and misunderstood her intentions. Besides, he came to know that his time will be up soon and lost his chance. He cared for Mikasa and was well aware of how sensitive she is towards anything related to him. Confessing or being to obvious will only make it hard for Mikasa to move on after his death. So, there's no point even looking in the direction which he won't be heading. I feel this was precisely the reason that Eren was the only one shown asking Mikasa if she has lost some weight, right after his limited 13 year life-span was revealed to her. That particular scene only makes sense in this regard. He had enough reasons to keep it to himself. The cold exterior of his "Chad Eren" persona too doesn't align with being his usual whiny self, atleast not in front of everyone. Honestly, i would have loved it if Eren showed his feelings a little bit. If he had, then his confession in the finale wouldn't have been underwhelming. Clearly, Isayama is terrible at writing these dynamics.
Attack on titan's intended message: We are special because we were born into this world. Attack on titan's actual message: In this world, is the destiny of mankind controlled by some transcendental entity or law...? Is it like the hand of God hovering above? At least it is true that man has no control, even over his own will.
"I don't know why I did it. I... wanted to see this sight. I don't know why, but I had to" or whatever shit Eren was saying there might legitimately be my most hated line of dialogue in fiction. It's like Isayama really badly wanted to give Eren a Walter White "I did it for me" moment, but didn't build up to it right, and then wanted Eren to just all of a sudden proclaim that there was no reason for his actions and he's just killing because wow, wow, empty land, I love murder. It's legitimately so fucking dumb, I don't get how you consistently write one of the best stories of all time, just to mess up so bad at the end. And yeah, facts on the Eren crying scene. I hate when people who like the ending try to portray it as "Oh people who don't like that scene are just incels who're mad that Eren isn't being a sigma male". Like. No. The issue is that he is bawling his eyes out over loving Mikasa, when him having romantic feelings for her was never established within the story, except for like maybe 4×28. Yet suddenly it is the most important thing. I legit thought I was watching some kind of parody when I saw the context of that crying scene (I had gotten the panel spoiled to me, but not the dialogue) Anyway. Shame. I wish the ending had been good. It is hard to put into words just how important (narratively) satisfying conclusions are
You're acting as if Eren wanting to destroy the world wasn't a thing since season 1 smh. Now, the Mikasa and Eren relationship needed more behind it but in context at least it made sense.
Forever ago in high school I watched all of season 1 in one night and was up til 4am because I couldn't pry myself away from it. Went back and watched the rest of it this year and it blew my mind with where it went from what I thought the original premise was.
@@orbboom6119 Nah...things turned garbage when all the themes got throw way just to make a tragic love story with a pedo king and slave child 🤢 Japanese are weridos
Eren being in love with mikasa was the most out of left field thing i've ever seen. It felt like just another attempt at a shocking twist than anything of actual substance.
How are there people who are genuinely surprised that Eren loves Mikasa? It's one thing if you don't think it's a good or engaging romance, that's fine, but it being "out of left field"... how?
@@BirdyboysWith the context of him knowing what he'll do in the future and especially that part where he lies to her about her affection for him to push her away in early season 4. It makes sense
The ending feels like the latter half of Darling in the Franxx where there is absolutely no reason for these people to interact so positively, but they are and act like your the one being weird and out of the loop. The ending in my minds eye is so much better.
@@Not.Spooky The problem with the determinism angle is that Eren at some point stops behaving like the character we've been watching for 4 seasons. Why can't Eren be locked into a future that is natural for Eren to choose? Instead he becomes someone else because of... determinism??
@@loayzc10 If you think Eren somehow stopped being the character, then you don't understand the character. Literally the point is that not only that he didn't change, but he was always going to do this.
"If you dont like it could you have done better" is a 'defense' I've heard before but from me and everyone I've talked to in regards to the ending many really could have done better and thats the only way to really enjoy the ending. To think about what could have been
@@ether2275How ?! Cutting this scene means we don't have any context for Eren's( inconsistent ) actions removing that part would give this character more mystery ( and would spare us some cringe).
I share a lot of the same issues with Eren. For all his talk of defying fate and breaking through the walls, he doesn't do anything to challenge those things post-time skip. The struggle against fate is what makes stories about fate so compelling but there is no struggle for Eren. He ceases to be a character and becomes a plot device.
How is there no struggle? The struggle is the defining part of Eren throughout the whole plotline. There's no struggle because he doesn't succeed? Well, yeah, that's the ultimate irony. The boy who wanted freedom, ironically, felt trapped in the path for his freedom. Eren is not a plot device, that doesn't even make any sense. It's his character, his very unique character, that is why the plot happens to begin with.
@@Sneeakie Eren actively chooses to not fight against his visions. He never once questions if the future is set in stone or if he can change it. He never tries. He had plenty of opportunities like with his mother or Grisha. But every chance he had to try and force open a new path, he did the exact opposite. If it really was an invincible time loop then it wouldn't need his future self's direct intervention. That's what makes him a plot device in the final arc.
@@mediaocrity4 Eren literally questioned it several times, and said that he did try to change it. WHy are people's critiques amounting to "I didn't actually read the series", I just read cliffnotes". Eren did try, but he realized in the end that it all happened because it's what he wanted. That's the struggle. Coming to terms with how depraved his own desire for freedom makes him.
@@Sneeakie He made no attempt to change his nature. If a terrorist tells someone "don't come to this place because I'm going to blow it up" and the person doesn't believe them and so they die in the terrorist attack, that is still the terrorist's fault. The only explanations for Eren's actions is that he was either completely possessed by the paths or he straight up did not actually care. Either way, it's dumb because of the way he influences the past. If he was completely possessed by the paths than Eren doesn't have any agency. A character not having any agency is the first sign that they're being poorly written. That's why I don't consider Eren a character. He's a plot device because he has no agency. He exists only to make the plot happen. All the characters only exist to fulfill their role in the story. And if that's not the case, then the only other possibility is that Eren is a psycho not worth caring about who willingly slaughtered innocent children, exterminated 80% of humanity, and most damning of all, screwed around with the timeline in order to make sure that his genocide would happen.
Any defense that could be mustered for Eren flew out the window the second that future Eren had to step in to make sure Grisha slaughtered the Reiss family. If it was a fixed timeline, then Grisha would have done it of his own accord anyway. The second that that reveal happened, all bets were off. Nobody in the story had any autonomy after that. That twist retroactively robbed Eren, Grisha, and every other character of any agency they may have ever had.
Eren starting a cult and them destorying the world is pretty much his dream come true. Same with crying over losing a girl he pretty much had since day one. If he played sports he'd have a bad average
@noztk so he started a cult is what you just said but longer? No seriously it's hilarious you don't see how "they put their FAITH onto him" and not expect me to laugh. Plus yes he did. They matyrized him and even alone he had his backers on island that follow him. If you want a comparison it's light and lelouch where during and after their life they rallied zealots all around.
@noztk "they put their faith onto him" ...Describe any one of the three big religions for me real quick. Pick one. Christianity, Islam or Judaism. The answer will shock you, I'm sure.
@@axain7784 It's not a cult but a realistic view. Eren is the only one who can save his friends and his people from certain death. He is something like a political leader who promises his people security. The Jägerists are Nationalists and not religious cultists.
AoT really said "No no, you dont get it, the point is he used his time powers to go back and become a g*nocidal superhuman... and thats a good thing! But we should be sad for him!" And expected the audience to nod along and smile.
Literally not, but you're media illiterate, so of course you think that. You're on the same level as the ones accusing it of being pro-Nazi, despite being a heavy condemnation of Nazis; and pro-military, despite spending a long time showing the utter corruption within a military state.
Did you even watch season 4? The show clearly stated that what eren did was terrible and doesn’t try to make you feel sad about it but to have a little bit of sympathy
Exactly. If she loved him, then why didn't she heal herself after getting struck by the spear? Also, why did she love King Fritz again? The same man who stole her from her village, ripped out her tongue, had her get chased down by his men for amusement, raped her, didn't care when she took the spear for him, and, to add the cherry on top, had her own daughters consume her corpse to gain her power? Then she got stuck in Paths after her death. There was absolutely no logical reason for Ymir to be in love with him after all that! The only feasible way you could argue for Stockholm Syndrome in Ymir's case is if we were shown occasional acts of kindness from the King to her. Even abusers in real life can act nice to their victims, so it would have been realistic if Yams had went that route. But let's face it, Ymir Fritz was never much of a character to begin with.
@noztk because that his gimmick dosen’t make it good it just make him poorly written he have the power and the knowledge to ensure his freedom by stopping his friends from titan while knowing what will happen if he dosen’t but dosen’t make him a contradiction
@noztk okay tell me if their lost their titan shifting how would their stop eren that was the eren had full control over tell me how could their catch up to him without that
This is why myself and all of my friends are inherently hesitant about any story that randomly throws in time travel/manipulation, because it could at any time completely nullify, worsen, or otherwise de-legitimize previous plot points. RIP Toriyama, he had the foresight to immediately preface his time-travel plot with "causality creates alternate universes" so that, say, Trunks showing up doesn't completely fix his time, but what good it does is offset with further hardship. Alternatively, Steins;Gate is almost solely based on influencing the past, the consequences of said influence, and the means by which they rectify it are the core of the plot, but in my opinion there are parts that are weaker simply because of how the series decides the rules work for there to be narrative tension. Pretty much the only way it works out is if there's magic or divine intervention involved, then you can just explain away paradoxes and such as being accounted for in some strange way, like how Zelda: Majora's Mask has everything work out alright for everyone despite there not being enough time to get to helping everyone in a single cycle. Ironically, my favorite time travel story is Sonic '06, solely because it's a perfect warning of how it can go wrong. Story details are meticulously crafted in borderline unbelievable ways in order to have a plot exist and keep the timeline intact, the plot has to bend over backwards to justify characters interacting with the past changing, the consequences of altering history are simultaneously nonexistent and plot-warping, and the entire story is ultimately solved by making it so that every event in the game never happened in the first place, and are by extension completely meaningless to every one of the characters. My second favorite is an absolute garbage series called "Misfit of Demon King Academy," featuring a Demon King™ so competent that even time manipulation is so eloquently executed as "all part of the plan" that it just works, plus it's only relevant for a very short time.
Heck the entire story of aot dosen’t make sense because of time travel eren was the one who convinced his dad to go kill the resiss to get the founding titan but how could eren do that if he need the founding to accomplish that in the first and without it he would have die getting eaten by the santa titan.
The only thing that was saving Eren as a character for me after he started getting future memories and starting his heel turn is that we didn’t know, still don’t, how much information he had. How many memories. With the way he behaved after, it seems likes he’s working with bits and pieces up until he’s in the paths and convinces Ymir to help him. That’s when he would have started doing his manipulation bullshit- but, that only makes sense if Eren had Freed Ymir then, thus giving him full control of The Founding Titans powers. But that’s… not what happened. Killing Zeke stopped it, so I guess she was still bound to him, and she wasn’t freed by Erin there, she was waiting for Mikasa. And now the whole thing is muddy- if he didn’t really get the whole founding titan shebang then maybe he did know he killed his mom when he said that, who fucking knows. The waters are too muddy to tell.
you completely misinprate him,if you wanna make analysis recontex all the word he said and not make asumpsion by one word,armin-so do you did this for us Eren-no Eren-i wanted to trampled everything Eren-i wanted to see this sight Eren-i just wanted to do it very badly Tell me how are you gonna explain this dialogue?this is what i hate about casual wiewer they completely didnt understand simple dialogue like this Armin-determination?you do this by you own will and you call it determination Armin-why this is happening,is there really no other choice Eren-i thought i do this for protecting you guys,but sahsa,hange,floch died because of me Eren-why?why this is the the only "possibilities and outcome that happening", Eren-its because iam 1diot that got too much power Eren actually have choicee,he doesnt got slaved by fate but in fact got slaved by his own will and his own egoism ,his main motive thst makes him "choose" rumbling is to satisfacting his desire of false freedom,the sight of freedom he always dream of,sure there other motives like erased titan power,protecting paradise,save his friends,but deep down he wanted to satisfacting his egoism
I'm with you, I really wish we understood ymir and the history of the titans. The original sin, the deal with some cosmic entity. I wish the story had gone further into that instead of making the entire story about Eren, because his character was never strong enough to make his having planned everything out believable. Eren doesn't seem like the type to plan anything, much less the entire history of everything.
@@minatoarisatofrompersona3440 I know, I'm just saying A) I agree that Attack on Titan lost its way B) if I could have my way, here's what I would want to see instead of what we got.
I wish also to better understand of the origin and meaning of life,to ave proof of Jesus ressurection..etc..but those will allways be mysteries,isn t it?This was the story if the the scouts told by Armin after the rumbling and it was the story about how people trying to kill each other so many times become ambassadors for peace.The side story was how a child become The Devil.and how the girl who loved him got to kill him.Genocide is wrong.
Right, it would be make way moree sense if he cant stop because he is too stobbern to do so, because thats way more in line with him, that he has to move forward and stubbernly has that narrow vision bcause hoe stubbern he is The time travel slave to freedom is just, weird, just cutr him down that it was his own stobernness that doesnt let him not see , ok lets say nationalist shouted "freedom" vs freedom
BEcause of the anime people think that ending was good. But if you think about it for more than a second, the manga readers were right. The ending did suck. Eren killing his mom is a total character betrayal.
My issue with AoT was not only the romance aspect of the show, which was mediocre and insignificant throughout the story until the end for fanservice. But also the Time travel, memories thing, like the books Dune, but worse. The reason for every last plot twist at the end is just way too absurd to take them seriously. Eren reasoning for doing the rumbling, Ymir's reasoning for uplifting the curse, etc... Of course, that's not all but remembering everything disappoints me even more. On the other hand, I can see why people would love it since it did an excellent job action-wise and you could feel the emotion thanks to the VA and soundtracks. Other than that, writing-wise, it was not to my taste.
Eren's reasoning for doing the rumbling is very much explained and the time travel stuff is good, just maybe a little confusing. Other than that the Eren x Mikasa stuff was defintely underdevelpoed and the Ymir thing defintely was also not explained as well.
@@ether2275 the time travel was good until we discovered that Eren was the one who killed his mom. It creates a huge mess since now we can conclude that he can interfere with elements of the past, we don't know how far he can change it, and now him saying that "he tried many ways but every time it was going to be this way" is just way too ridiculous and unbelievable.
@@MrMetaVal We are shown that this event could not be changed, that's what Eren said. In essence, Eren changing that past event would not change the current events that are happening to this timeline. It could potentially lead into an entirely different timeline, however the future events are not changing. Eren was going to do the Rumbling regardless. He looked at his past when he was inside the Founder and saw that the Founder technically had the power to save his mom but also realized how it didn't matter anymore. Future Eren saving his mom there would contradict his own existence. In a different timeline where events played out differently perhaps Eren's mom survived and Marley won. But we will never know. Fact is, Eren has created a timeloop himself by sending past memories to everyone, including his younger self through the founder. At that point there is no way he could change anything, it was always meant to be this way. Time travel plots can be confusing in general but Aot's handling of it wasn't that bad. The idea that future events could not be changed even if you saw them is actually pretty realistic. I mean, the idea that you'd be able to see your own future would mean you are now seeing what will happen for you and it is set in stone. You can try to avoid it or follow it but in the end both will lead to the same result cause it is the future you made, without you even realizing it.
@@ether2275 That's one of the issues with this time travel stuff in Aot. We are told by Eren that the events couldn't be changed but then he admits that if somebody else got the power, somebody like Armin, then everything would have been different. In the end, he admits that he's just an idiot with power. Eren could change elements of the past but chose not to and he followed the path that the future Eren (aka Founder Eren since when he obtained the founder power, this is when he saw past, present, and future, and wrote all the events which led to this ending) made for him. If he did change something like killing his own mom, the story that we followed since s1 would have been different. But again it's only assumptions, like your arguments about "Eren saving his mom didn't matter anymore, etc..." Only the author knows but again he wasn't properly conveyed. Now on the other hand my argument that he ould change but chose not to is more plausible thanks to the interview he did where he explained why didn't he change the ending, and he said I quote: " It would have been nice if I could have changed the ending. Writing manga is supposed to be freeing. But if I was completely free, then I should have been able to change the ending. I could have changed it and said I wanted to go in a different direction. But the fact is that I was tied down to what I had originally envisioned when I was young. And so, manga became a very restrictive art form for me, similar to how the massive powers that Eren acquired ended up restricting him."
@@ether2275 My issue is that it's too ridiculous to believe that "there were no other paths possible" since, again, he did change elements of the past. This isn't like Dune where Paul Atreids just saw the past, present, and future simultaneously. Paul can't interfere with elements of the past like Eren did which is why it's more believable for him that to the point where he drinks the water of life, starting the holy war is inevitable, compared to Eren killing 80% which was considered "inevitable". The Aot world is a deterministic world by founder Eren himself, not by anything like destiny or a higher power like the movie "Knowing" for example. In conclusion, Eren (when he gained the founder power) could have chosen a different path but decided not to since this is what he wanted. Aot Time Travel wasn't the worst, mainly since it was the author's first manga, but it was far from being good.
The biggest issue is the Ymir had the power to see into the future. Wouldn't she see the Mikasa overcomes her love for Eren and kills him in the future? If she does see that, shouldn't she have relinquished the power of the titans long ago?
Damn, watching this video made me feel such a relief, like I was the one saying all of those things and getting in out of my chest, thank you. It really is a shame when a story you love so much just dissapoints you in the end.
you completely misinprate him,if you wanna make analysis recontex all the word he said and not make asumpsion by one word,armin-so do you did this for us Eren-no Eren-i wanted to trampled everything Eren-i wanted to see this sight Eren-i just wanted to do it very badly Tell me how are you gonna explain this dialogue?this is what i hate about casual wiewer they completely didnt understand simple dialogue like this Armin-determination?you do this by you own will and you call it determination Armin-why this is happening,is there really no other choice Eren-i thought i do this for protecting you guys,but sahsa,hange,floch died because of me Eren-why?why this is the the only "possibilities and outcome that happening", Eren-its because iam 1diot that got too much power Eren actually have choicee,he doesnt got slaved by fate but in fact got slaved by his own will and his own egoism ,his main motive thst makes him "choose" rumbling is to satisfacting his desire of false freedom,the sight of freedom he always dream of,sure there other motives like erased titan power,protecting paradise,save his friends,but deep down he wanted to satisfacting his egoism
The most annoying part of this comment section are the people saying something along the lines of “I can’t believe people are still misunderstanding this OBVIOUS symbolism/parallel lol. How dumb do you have to be to not get it?”
@@ether2275 yeah that wasn’t what I meant but I didn’t really clarify tbf. I just kept seeing commenters belittle either Lowart or other people’s comments passive aggressively by saying stuff like “I can’t believe some IDIOTS still didn’t get the OBVIOUS symbolism in this scene etc.” Like just explain whatever symbolism you found from AoT without calling someone stupid. No one is inherently smarter than anyone else for finding subtleties in AoT that went over the head of others. Tl:Dr don’t be an asshole when disagreeing/discussing anime haha
Another video I watched on this pointed out the Eren had explicitly called out the exact kind of play the climax was as stupid earlier in the story. For me, the stupidest part was Armin and the other Eldian traitors changing sides to help people who, up until the very minute the Rumbling started, were trying to eradicate the people of Paradis.
"Eren had explicitly called out the exact kind of play the climax was as stupid earlier in the story." ARMIN calls the plan out IN THE ENDING. In the manga, he questions if Eren really did it for them; in the anime, Armin literally calls it a joke. And in every ending, Eren also says he didn't do it for the plan at all. "Eldian traitors" Why do you guys talk like actual fascists? "Grrrr, why does Armin not stand by genocide?" I really hope Lowart sees the kind of people his video brought.
@@Sneeakie Yes, Armin calls it out in the ending, but earlier in the story, Eren calls out a *similar* plan as foolish. As for the other half, that's what they are. They can not like what is being done, that's fine. Upstanding in a way. But they throw in their lot with, again, people who had up until that exact minute in the story, been openly calling for the destruction of their people, despite the Rumbling being the promised retaliation if the people of Paradis weren't left alone. Something, specifically, the people of Marley had been poking for many, many years. The people of Marley who had also been keeping hate for the Eldians alive by using titans (and the Eldian diaspora) as weapons of war on their neighbors. That is the world they turned against their people to save. And in the manga, it is quite possible that they lived to see this destroy Paradis. As the buildings depicted were modern sky-scrapers and stealth bombers. While the Titan era was at what seemed to be WW1 or WW2 analogous technology.
@@firebornliger Yes, it's almost like it wasn't Eren's plan at all, wild. It's almost as if it's something he came up with to save face in front of Armin. Calling them traitors is toothless, especially when you fail to understand the very basic morals of why they fight for the world, even after they EXPLICITLY TELL YOU why. "Duhhh, but they were the enemy!" Yeah, and even the enemy doesn't deserve GENOCIDE. Mikasa died of old age, no they did not see this destroy Paradis, and that's even besides the dumb assumption that it's because of retaliation, when the entire point of the three-year timeskip is them MAKING THE TREATY TO END THE WAR.
@@Sneeakie Your points aren't as grounded in reality as you'd like them to be when half of what you're talking about is "what if he did this what if he did that" yeah eren could have made it up to save face but literally no one knows, so we can either take what was given to us at face value and judge it accordingly or we can create this asinine fanfiction in our heads when the author doesn't even know what the point was
@@Sneeakie If it was toothless, you wouldn't have your panties in such a twist over it. "[One Character] died of old age, therefore they all died before the event happened.". This little hilarious bit is what shows to me you're just flailing. The little post-story page of Paradis being destroyed in the future shows that Armin and co were wrong. Even if it wasn't a direct result of the Rumbling. If you weren't flailing and being reactionary, you might have a case to build being that it shows it isn't that easy to break cycles of hatred. Something the rest of the story reinforces with everyone who tried failing ultimately because others wouldn't let go of the past. Or viewed that attempt as a moment of weakness, and seized on the opportunity to become the aggressors. (Again, going back to Marley using the Eldian Diaspora as weapons, keeping the hatred and othering of them alive for generations after the King tried to withdraw from the world stage to Paradis island.)
>SNK was my first anime god I feel old. The writer struck gold with the basement mysterybox, shame everything else was trash. Edit: The ending isn't good but it's what the SnK fanbase deserved. :^)
Needing to have a constant mystery that only leads to a very trite answer, a twist, and/or another mystery isn't good storytelling. Sacrificing world building, characters, relationships, and even the ending for said mystery and twists means it's awful storytelling. These flaws were happening from right after the start. They are always there, always in the background. What's in the basement? Why can some people turn into Titans? Why are there titans in ze walls!? That's just the start of a long long line. It gets old, it gets boring, it shows the writer either didn't have anything planned out and/or has no confidence in his work. It's the worst aspects of JJ Abrams and M. Night Shyamalan rolled into one manga. TL;DR: The fanbase deserved Erin whining about some dude railing Mikasa right as he gaussian blurs into oblivion as an ending.
@@Durahan2 It's not even that. After Eren came into contact with Ymir there were basically no more misteries to be solved and the path was set. Isayama then chickened out (his admission, not mine) and had to include new misteries and plot twists to make the Alliance win.
"If I have to hear one more time that Eren did this for his friends..." Great video, bro, I share your feelings. This story means so much for me too, it's just a part of me, that helped to bear so many things in life. Sad to see it betraying itself. Nevertheless, it is in our hands, to learn from it not only by its good side, but also by its mistakes
Maybe becouse he did and a lot of people wanna ignore it, becouse it makes them uncomfortable that there's nuance to the conflict. It never betrayed itself, AoT has always been about survival.
@@MegumiKeehl If you watch the extended ending, you see that there's a war going on in Eren's homeland and said homeland is destroyed. They did die in the end, because of his actions. Lmao.
I'd already been burned by horrible twists that ruin narratives by the time I started AoT so that when they started popping up in the show/manga, my reaction was basically "aww well that's too bad" and I went on with my day. I think I'm just old and jaded to the point where a part of me is waiting for things to fall in on themselves. So I was a bit mentally checked out by the time I read the ending, but your going into all of these twists and details helps me finally fully process what I didn't like about them, so thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Eren killing his mom is one of the worst twists ever . He Always remembered her in his lowest times and then u kill here so ur 4 friends live in fear for the rest of their lives.this isn't it . And the the plot of the future set on stone soo boring so u telling me eren at some point in season 4 just following the future not making his own choices ,that bad for the character.he is not slave to the freedom anymore he is slave to the future and ymir all the time.
The only problem I have with AoT is that the mysteries are more interesting than the answers, and it kept going long after presenting those answers with little to no fanfare. When the time jump happened, my initial reaction was that the show was going through a genre shift and that might make it interesting again. But...I just found it boring and kinda aimless.
This video perfectly summarizes my problems with attack on titans endings. While what we have is fine, I feel like there was so much potential for a beautiful endings that was just completely ruined.
Shouldn't have brought fate and determinism into the story, it undermined Eren's motives and determination, it made everything blurry instead of focused, and it killed any tension from the final fight cause it was pretty clear he was not gonna kill any of them (also they won with 2 deus ex machina, not a good way to write a final battle).
For me the line "a slave to freedom" (as pretentious as it sounds) does explain a lot. He always had the "freedom" of not moving forward, of opposing his own nature (cabin scene). There was a clear path ahead of him he could've chosen not to walk on. The "slave" part is the fact, that there WAS ONLY THAT ONE PATH FOR HIM.
Bro how can he be a “slave to freedom” if what he did in the end had nothing to do with his freedom. If he was a slave to freedom he would have done everything to get his freedom, but he didn’t. He did everything so that his friends would have long lives. If anything he was a slave to fate and to his friends. He could have defeated the alliance and erased the rest of the eldians memory of what happened and he could gave gotten to keep living as a free man. “Slave to freedom” makes no sense because that phrase did not reflect his actions
What people forget about (and also this youtuber) is the scene when eren says he TRIED to chamge the future he saw MANY times, and it kept happening just as he saw it on his future memories. That simply explains all of AOT.
Commenting for the algorithm. As a sort of hobbyist storyteller i love these kinds of videos both because they are entertaining and as inspo as to what not to do when writing a story lol. Good vid man!
Finally, someone put this into words. Me and my friends always didn't like the ending and had many debates about it. We always say "AoT ended at chapter 123, Eren finished rumbling *the end*"
i dont like or care about attack on titan but this was a nice watch anyway. your videos are always so thoughtfully created and enjoyable to watch (and listen to in the background while i multitask), and it's nice to listen to people talk about things that they love and are passionate about, regardless of if that's in the form of praise or criticism. thanks for the great video as always
I'm not entirely sure what it was, but I was never able to fully get into this series. Still, it's fun to hear other people's perspectives of it in reviews.
The worst part about this is people who think the ending is good think they’re smart it was nothing but a cheap fan service ending which ruined Eren and destroyed the story
@@Peasham Isayama: "The cycle of violence may not end forever, but that also means that humanity can try again." Absolutely dumb people: "Duhhhhh, the island gets bombed in a random war literally centuries after everyone has died, which means Eren (who didn't actually care what happens centuries in the future) is right!" What brilliant media literacy.
@@Sneeakie And then you look into Isayama's very public political beliefs, and look up Japanese Ultranationalism, and you start agreeing with me. Far right Japanese people genuinely believe every other country in the world will want to destroy Japan no matter what Japan does and that they have to destroy every other country because of that. This is the point of the story.
@@Peasham You failed to read the story in any competent manner, now you're relying on nonexistent statements to justify the nonsense you literally made up.
@@ether2275 you're an AoT meat rider and I must ask Why do people of your kind always use words like "buddy", "kiddo" or something like that whenever you defend your favourite piece of media, even if it's objectively bad?
Thank you for this and for articulating your perspective so clearly. This is the first time I’ve seen someone who didn’t enjoy the ending provide such helpful insight into why by laying things out this way
I always love takes like these. "What do you mean committing genocide wasn't a good idea" it never was. I'm perplexed by people who judge the quality based on whether Eren was right when he never was.
Eren’s goal was to make his friends look like heroes so they could finally make peace with the rest of the world once and for all. But actually he really did want to kill everything outside the walls to create a blank slate. But actually he wanted only to eradicate the existence of the titans because that was his original plan all along. But actually none of that matters because he’s just following a predetermined path that he has no control over. … Yeah makes sense 👍
@@sprawlz6466 Eren literally says that the "plan" to make his friends heroes actually wasn't his plan. Eren never said that ending the power of the titans is exactly what he wanted, just that it's what happens when Ymir gets what she wants. Eren fucking plainly stated that he above all else wanted to make the world a blank slate, and that even if he DIDN'T see the future, he would do the Rumbling for that reason. If you're confused, maybe actually read the fucking story, lmfao
I thought it was stated that eren chose this course of events bc he had a drStrange-like moment where he went thru all possible timelines and chose the one that let the most amount of his friends survive and flourish
Best part was probably Eren calling out Mikasa and her not having a character and the scarf still being wrapped around her pretty much confirms it being his tool. Later parts of the show felt like a parody of the original where they forgive the female Titan over a JOKE scene. It was awful just thinking about it. Eren knowing everything makes him an extra terrible person which is funny as he knew the future yet still failed to get Mikasa.
@noztk sounds like a contradiction you just said. Does he have free will to choose the memories he follows or not? Is he not factored by free will making Mikasa a puppet of a puppet by that logic? Does hiding the true history and his entire life make him just a nothing character which makes Mikasa worse? What about ymir was her obsession with historia true? How about the gear being bad at first? If so his mother's life end and dad don't matter. Same with his crying on Mikasa being his one and only action. It's basically Futurama where bender isn't guilty of anything.
Wait, you actually thought the restaurant scene was Eren's genuine beliefs? Even when that scene was happening, it was the most obvious "yeah, he's saying that to drive them away".
@@SilverKnightXx because they didn't immediately run away or jail her. But guess because funny eating scene exists and I paid attention to her basically running like a coward into the crystal after losing and causing so much damage. It's honestly a bottom scene in general. Almost as bad as Mikasa kissing the headless beta male
14:50 You are wrong. Eren is no longer Eren. He's an amalgamation of all the attack titans up until that point because that's what the attack titan's power is. It links all users past and present. That's why Eren Krueger said save Mikasa and Armin. Eren is a voice in many voices but he appears as Eren because it's the best way to accomplish the Attack Titan's hive mind goal.
For me, the jarring af time skip in the 4th season REALLY got me. We go from "I will fight for everyone's freedom, For humanity!" to warcrimes mcgee. I thought the 3rd season was a nice change of pace "Oh boy we're fighting humans! this is a neat little departure. That was fun, can't wait to fight more titans tho." into "Oh... it's all humans now..." I think the initial premise of titans being an existential threat to humanity that has to be overcome is WAAAAYYY more interesting than what we got.
It really is, but it doesn't help that the outside world has little to no worldbuilding. Willy Tibur say they need to fight Paradis now that they might end the world. Everyone claps like seals. Why? Weren't they at war just a moment ago? Why is Hizuru the only one willing to send people to Paradis, to talk to them? It's not like they have much to lose. It's established, by Udo, that the other countries treat Eldians even worse than Paradis. Why? The only Eldians that turn into weapons against them are practically unwilling suicide bombers taken out of the ghetto Marley keeps them in. At worst, people would be fighting over the Shifters like the nations in Naruto fight over the tailed beasts. This all really helps putting Eren on his path. They can't establish outside relations and ally with Marley's enemies because they all hate them even more. Besides, Eren wouldn't want to burden the next generation with being titan shifters, dying an early death due to Ymir's curse and forcing Historia to birth a child for it (which she does, getting completely sidelinesd from the story). Why do titan shifters die after 13 years anyway?
The initial premise has a terrible shelflife because it's either the protagonists kill this entire race of monsters or they don't. And as soon as Eren was himself a titan, the initial premise was already irreversibly changed.
@@Sneeakie Well I don't think you would have to make it "Eren kills all the titans." the humanity win condition could just be surviving. Conflict could arise from Eren's desire for revenge vs what's practical. What we got was honestly less interesting gundam. People using big giant humanoid shapes to fight with a lot of political drama and war.
@@Too-Much-CaffeineThe series' premise sets up the idea that either humanity destroys the tians or gets destroyed. Having them "survive" doesn't really resolve or even develop anything. We already know they went 100 years "surviving", but for the story to mean anything, something has to happen. That's why AoT abandons that initial premise pretty much immediately by making the scenario more complicated.
@@Sneeakie Well yeah Eren is discontent because they live like rats, I get that. I'm saying you could have conflict afterwards, what if humanity succeeded and expanded outward enough that they reach a post scarcity society? But eren isn't satisfied and wants revenge still and forces conflict when he doesn't need to? This is just one idea of many, i'm just spitballing. My point being the Titans themselves being a big threat to humanity as a whole and not just a hostile nation, has plenty of idea's you could evolve from. When I say initial premise, I don't literally mean episode 1. Just that titans are a force that's working against humanity broadly.
Eren in essence trapped himself in a time loop since the start, he's rationalizing it but the twist is that the one person who wanted freedom more than anything trapped himself in service to a future he could never change, he says he tried it and it never worked, he was chained to this fate, there was never a choice edit: oops
@@marocat4749 the anime added it? I can't tell you, since my mind kinda fused both versions, so I really can't say what was anime added I do like the idea and the themes work since Eren is all about freedom while taking everyone else's choice away, even his own
Whether Eren knew the outcome in advance or not, it doesn't change that it was all Eren's decisions that led to this outcome. Had Eren not wanted to do the rumbling, then his memories of the future would've been entirely different. So he was always free to make another choice, he just didn't becouse this is what he choose should happen. Hence why his memories of the future, was what it was. Eren made it happen. Let's say you get a phophesy of the future, where you buy a new phone. You could always choose not to, but you still end up buying it becouse that's what you'd want to do. It's still your own decision, even if you get a glimse into the future. Had you not wanted to buy a phone, then that vision would've never happened to begin with. That's pretty much the concept to the attack titan's ability.
@@beastvicious8672 Wren said he tried to get a different outcome but couldn’t, he was stuck because in this universe time is a set path and the only people who can see that path can’t change it, so for example, Ymir always saw her entire existence since the moment she got her power up to the point where she sees Mikasa kill Eren and end the show, it is probably one of the reasons why she was so broken when working for the king, she saw what was gonna happen and counted change anything
@@NoRegs30 Like maro said above, that dialogue was only in the anime. It also doesn't negate what i said. Imagine you knew what was happening in the future but it was also the same outcome you wished for. You'd probably do certain things a bit differently just to test it out. Yet when push comes to shove, you still go with the path that has the desired outcome. It's still your own choice. The visions Eren got, only happened becouse they were the decisions he made. Otherwise his visions would've been different to begin with, if he picked differently. It's paradoxical but it doesn't take away from what happened, only happened becouse Eren made it so.
Ok out of anyone complaining about the ending- yours is the first to have the exact complaints I have. And thank god finally, it DOES NOT SPIRAL INTO A REDDIT THEORY that twists the story into something its not, THANK YOU. Completely agree with every point you have apart from maybe Eren timeline retroactive bs ruining the agency of the story (at least not completely, for me at least) Wish we saw more, and got more explained and that these things were given more than a panel or a page to skim through. but yeah I liked the ending*
The moment Eren became omniscient and convinced(?) his father to act in the chapel, imo, is when the series jumped the shark and never recovered. (Except for the Marley Arc, that was pretty cool)
Yeah it's pretty weird for Grisha tell Zeke to stop Eren because of the tragic future he's gonna create but then he goes to Eren and gives him the Titan anyways.
@@ether2275 why shouldn't he? He's got the attacking Titan. Surely he, and Eren the Soldier Man would know of what Eren did, since this whole thing is allegedly a loop and also all Attacking Titans basically share a personality and other nonsense Isayama created. Nah, this story should've never go political, just have the titans be some random silly giants that apparently just exist in this world
Just wanted to let you know that I found you a couple of weeks ago and I think it's really fun listening to your opinions on media! Also in general I enjoy longer videos to have on while I do something else. Keep up the good work!
Eren didn't do the rumbling to make his friends into heroes, he lied to Armin, that's why it doesn't make sense and he later admits he did it for his own freedom
Eren says in his conversation with Armin that he didnt know who lived or died in the rumbling so to say he did it so they could be heroes is just wrong. He didn't even know if they'd survive it long enough to become heroes.
@@centipedekid9824 Exactly, and it is clearly meant to parallel Reiner. It is impressive that to this day people are still so confidently incorrect misinterpreting the story. Everyone gets mad when someone says "you did not understand the story" but in these cases I think it's legitimately valid criticism.
I see as today there are still people don't understanding that he did it for both reasons... saving his friends and just cause he was pissed off being caged and treated as scum by the rest of humanity. One reason doesn't exclude the other, he was thinking he was doing it "just" for them and later he realized he was doing it cause it felt the need to do it. The same way Armin too had the feeling to exterminate humanity at one point...
Thank god for this video, i thought i was going nuts with the way everyone was treating the ending like some masterpiece. 139 still remains the worst chapter ive ever read.
they basically played the dumb human nature fallasy completely contradicting what it was building up . Isayama got lazy didn't know how to end it so he cheaped out
I agree SO MUCH about Eren and Mikasa's relationship!! I just can't see it working in any universe... Their most romantic moment imo is the one where she kissed his head.
It started out as a unique spin on the zombie apocalypse genre before slowly devolving into what can only be described as some really weird, and contrived WWII-esque GoT fanfic that makes less and less sense with every new chapter.
This discussion has sum up alll my issues with AOT's ending. Although I somewhat Agree/Disagree with the part on Eren and Mikasa's relationship in that they do clearly care about each other, but it definitely should've been built up more over the course of the story.
I actually like the predetermination angle for a reason I haven't seen anybody else say... Nothing confirms that Eren's idea about predetermination is correct. He used a power that was beyond him and assumed he understood it. He quite possibly had the ability at any time to make a different decision than the one he sees, but he never even tries. To me, it's the tragic culmination of his struggle for freedom the entire story, that at the end of it all what truly kept him trapped was himself and his need to have agency over events in his life that were beyond him. He would rather be responsible for every bad thing that happens to him than for chance to control his life. Early on in AoT's release, I heard someone say Eren wanted to be a force of nature character, and I feel that interpretation only got stronger as time went on. That said, I am still super iffy on the ending. I am not as charitable as you in my interpretation of Armin at the end. When I read it in the manga I got nothing other than the sense he was being 100% genuine in thanking Eren for becoming a mass murderer. I think the part you didn't cover, where the world is at peace for a super long time before being war torn again and a new person finds the centipede, is being dark for being dark's sake. Like "oh yeah guys war is just in humanity's nature and our suffering is our own fault" type stuff. Eren liking Mikasa comes completely out of nowhere, everything in the story up to that point implied he was aware of her feelings and actively rebuffing her. It feels like it was put in to please shippers. Finally, the ending just feels... rushed. Like the author was just tired of the story and wanted to cap off every plot point they could as fast as possible. IMO, the ending does nothing to effect my enjoyment of the rest of the work, but I can see both why some people hate it and why some people like it, and I do respect that the author actually ended it rather than dragging it on indefinitely.
I've been thinking about this for years. For as long as the final arc is, it would have benefited tremendously with another half season. There's so many interesting plot points that are just skimmed over, for the sake of building up the Rumbling.
It's not just the ending. The entire second half slowly degrades to that historic low. Eren had enough motivation to cause the rumbling he didn't need any higher morals to do it.
I was hoping that right when he started the rumbling, Mikasa and Armin would form a plan to kill him, to preserve his "Humanity" before he did the unthinkable. I always saw Erin as the Body, Mikasa as the Heart, and Armin as the Mind, without those 2 with him, he acted on instinct in the worst way and thus, really needed them. I thought if they killed him before it happened, it would be their way of "Saving him". I really wish that is how it ended.
I loved the ending, the only thing that really rubbed me the wrong way was the final conversation with Armin, as you said, being too soft on Eren and not losing it after seeing the devastation he caused, the betrayal of their dream. I would have preferred if the characters really did win on their own and the last conversation with Eren being a culmination of Armin and the gang's ideological victory over him as the world would have to change or at least hear them out after seeing his own people put Eren down. It would've been great too, considering the Yeagerists are the ones who still want conflict and possibly began instigating the events that led to the war we see hundreds of years later.
I feel confident in my convictions that the ending of Attack on Titan is utter dogshit cuz the author agrees with me. He’s said so himself that he doesn’t like what he did and he regrets doing what he himself considers a narrative cop out.
As much as I loved Attack on Titan, there were issues from the start. From the abusive undertones of Eren and Mikasa's relationship to a reliance on convenient solutions to help the heroes out (i.e. the Coordinate, Armor Serum, Hange somehow surviving Bertolt), there were problems. But I was willing to overlook those issues because they weren't super important at the time. Then these elements became more prominent/relied upon, and that's when things really started to go downhill. Mikasa's obsession with Eren? It's genuine love and she totally isn't brainwashed and he totally loves her back the same way despite not really showing it well throughout the series. Convenient solutions? Zeke getting a +1 from Ymir, Keith blowing up a train, Bird Falco (Titan Falco in general really), Zeke and the past Titan shifters helping out the gang, Eren holding back the entire time. I still love Attack on Titan (mid-tier ending honestly), but a lot of the problems in the final chapters can be traced back to earlier in the series.
You have no idea how much of this were my exact thoughts following the series back then except I wanted to believe eren had some goodness left even if that didn't make sense. Now I just don't want to watch/hear anything about AOT cuz it just reminds me of what it all leads to and I just get incredibly sad.
Never have I watched a show that I had to drop so many times as AOT. I'm still not through the last season but have already dropped the show three times. The good question is: What makes me go back? The first time was learning about Eren being able to turn into a Titan. I had so many questions and wanted to see where the story would go. The second time was "well I stopped only a couple episodes before the ending of the season. Might as well finish it. Won't take that long." Someone asked me to finish the series and continue watching the last season. I didn't want to. I procrastinated on it. I watch as many episodes I can take and then take a break. The series lost me so many times. I stay because there is so much hype around it and because of what it could be and because of Hanji and Armin. But season three suffered majorly from 2nd season syndrome. Too many new characters "that have always been part of some characters past", to many weird plots twists and turns. And now season 4. I think I get what the series wants me to feel but I rarely feel what they feel. Sometimes I have to laugh in the characters faces. I don't care that Sasha died. I had little reason to care for her. I also don't care about a lot of other characters (anymore). I knew it got bad when there were only 2 redeemable characters left and one of them was Mikasa which I have always disliked from the start. Sure, fine. Levi has been okay, Historia has been okay. But the rest? Why should i care about them out of all the people that have died?
I also want to voice my concern for how the female characters were treated by the narrative (esp last season so far). Sasha dies for tragedy. Gabi gets patronized, Historia gets yeeted out of the story more and more, Mikasa continues being Mikasa. I guess we get Hanji lol. And as far as I have heard Ymir can't make her own choices either. Who cares about Eren's grandmother? No she couldn't possibly affect anything about her sons life. No, Zeke's mom can't get any influence either. She just dies for tragedy even though there was no reason to kill her. And obviously Erens mom dies for tragedy too. Hell, even Mikasas Mom! Everyones Mom dies is how i feel. And Anny. She had a story. But then she got chucked in the freezer next to some left over ice cream. She's mostly mentioned after this because Reiner has feelings about her. It just feels like the story would have evolved very differently if these characters had more action. EDIT: forgot to mention the death of a certain sister and the death of the least developed soldier trainee.
YES! 2nd part was so sh1t, and that was after my favorite part of this series, just how it go downfalls that bad is so bizarre to me, and how people liked it too. Still a believer that 2nd part was not an original ending that isayama planned.
I want to say a lot but I'll keep it simple. I liked the show and the manga. But in the end, Erin was never free and i believe everything was destined to happen due to the titans being created, etc. Which made me like the show even more
My hot take is that to be honest with you, I agree that the ending is bad in this series but I actually the entire story from start to finish in Attack On Titan is horrible. Once I saw Eren as a titan in Episode 8 of the first season, I knew right then and there that there was a huge red flag in the entire show. How someone can just survive being eaten by a titan and then just gain powers out of his ass is complete bullshit and they don’t even explain how that would even be possible.
@@lordartoriuscollbrande7434 The original premise was more interesting for sure but the series managed to evolve and change gracefully over the course of the seasons/arcs, up until the ending when the author decided to chicken out of the planned ending.
@mariodoccia6129 tbh, Chapter 139 has problems, but, AnR isn't better either. It's also kibd out character for Eren. Seriously, Erem killing Mikasa and Armin, the secondary protagonists has to be the dumbest shit. They should've just cut their frienships with them.I don't see the point of Falco, Levi and Gabi being killed off either. Also, Eren deserves to suffer a lot more than whatever the AnR presents him. Paradis should've collapsed within itselves in a few years as a consequence.
This isn't really related to your video, but i would love if you could check out "Jinrui o metsubou sasete wa ikemasen"? A manga that sadly got cancelled a while ago. It may not be the greatest manga out there, but i think it had plenty of potential with what it showed :)
Honestly, as an ending lover and a long-time fan, I can admit that when I saw this video on my subscriber feed, my first emotion was disdain. But, I decided to give the other perspective a shot.. after all, how else will we be able to understand each other, which is literally one of the messages in AoT? And yknow what, I’m glad I took the time to watch your video and have an open mind. You raise a lot of good points! I can agree with AoT’s excessive plot twists near the ending (the story has always had a problem with prioritizing plot twists over the main message and tones the story tries to convey), and I understand your perspective wholeheartedly, even if I don’t share it. This may be a controversial take, but I find it to be fascinating how AoT continues to leave fans divided over their interpretations of the story, as I find both viewpoints to have validity. We all love the story, we’re all passionate about it, which is why we get emotional whenever we are either disappointed in the story or don’t understand why others are disappointed. Thank you for adding your voice to the discussion, Lowart, I can tell you’re emotionally invested in AoT like a lot of us are and just want the best possible version of it. :)
I can only think of Eren as someone trying to write Milliardo Peacecraft from Gundam Wing, but forgetting what made him so interesting, what made him a great character Milliado's the war to end all wars plan is essentially the same as the rumbling from what I could gather from this video (yet to watch the rest of AoT past S3 pt 2), it was the easiest way to achieve what he wanted, more than that and more than anything, the ONLY way he could achieve what he wanted (same idea with future sight here, but instead, it was the only path he was capable of achieving when the Zero System showed the simulated result for his question), the only way to end all wars, make one so terrible that mankind would fear the very word "war" and any of its synonyms for generations to come; the thing that makes this so great, is that Milliardo is wrong, another character, Heero, when he asked the same question for the Zero System (essentially a computer that connects to your brain and gives you a simulated result of any objective you want to complete, being as simple as defeating an opponent, or as abstract as "ending all wars), his answer was different, it was the polar opposite of Milliardo's in fact, and at that point, when Milliardo realized that, he without a second thought gave up every part of his plan (which was to send a space colony to earth and end 90% of its population btw), sacrificed himself, survived, and ensured that he would fade from the world and protect the path Heero saw, and guarantee they would achieve it
