How Bad Was The M60A2 Starship? 

My father was a driver for M60s when he was in the military. He 'barely missed vietnam' so he was in an A1, most likely. He doesn't remember what model he drove, except for the statement of 'Thank god it wasn't that new and shiny nightmare with the missile launcher'.

I find it funny that they tried to make a lower profile turret, then slapped a massive fucking commander’s cupola on top of it to make it practically the same profile height-wise.

US: Let's make the turret smaller so it's harder to hit Also US: Let's add a skyscraper cupola for the commander

I’ve seen the last M60A2 in Danville, Virginia. It’s really interesting to see it in person and is absolutely massive

Ah yes, the Ravenfield Tank.

I worked turret repair on the last battalion of M60A2 while at Ft.Hood, TX, 2nd Armorer Devision, (1980-82)(45Kilo). It was a giant POS. The circuit boards that controlled the laser range finder, fire control system, and missile guidance would crack from vibration from simply driving the tank on ruff ground. One I had to work on were the stabilization unit crapped out and the gun slammed up and down so hard that it cracked the guns trunnion. That one was a write off, but it didn’t matter do the slated decommissioning of the A2 a month or so latter. The joke saying was to load the tank on a HET, slowly drive up to a mountain top and park the tank there and hope nothing in the turret broke. The turret design with its vertical flat side would had allowed any tank round along with a RPG to penetrate. That last battalion tanks were replaced with M60A3. As a side note. While I was at Ft.Hood, the Army did its first field trials of the then new M1 Abrams. 2nd Armorer was supposed to get the M1 for the field trials, but the Brass gave it 1st Cav instead. Kind of bummed me because I was trained at Aberdeen to work on them.

Fun fact, Army still has the NSN to order one of these things. No idea why, but its in a DA manual. Edit: It was DA PAM 750-8, it was on page 252. Funny thing was that they had the m60a1, the m48a5, m60a3, the m60, all of the Abrams variants, m60a1r, the AOS m60, and the star-ship in the next category. I don't know WHY they still have this in there. But oddly enough, the national stock numbers are there to order them. My guess is that the first generation of wreckers that was made to pull abrams out of areas was made out of parts from the m60's and m48's. Just so they can order parts from those vehicle's TM's.

My dad was a tanker back in the 70s, he said he was asked by his co if he wanted to transfer to a starship and get bumped up to the commander position. He politely said "Hell no sir those things are death traps lol"

Funny thing is the M60A2 starship is actually the vanilla common tank in a game called ravenfield

Probably one of my favorite tanks in WT. I wish it did better IRL than it does in game

I'ma' be real here, the M60A2 Starship looks awesome. Love the design.

I was an M60A1, M60A3, M1, M1A1 and M1A2 tanker. From talking to the old M60A2 tankers the problem was the technology to make the concept of the vehicle work was just not there yet. There were numerous problems that were never worked out effectively, such as the turret and cupola traversing wildly on their own when the turret power was on. Much of the lessons learned from the A2 program went into the M1 Abrams. Also the name Starship was something that came out way after the vehicle left service.

3:50 It ain't me, it ain't me I ain't no fortunate one

when spookston uploads, it automatically makes my day better

My company supported the M60A2 when it went to Grafenwohr. It was a nightmare. We had one in our Maintenance Float section to issue to the unit when we could not fix the Tank in a timely manner.

I commanded an M60a2 from 1975-1978. It was fun to play with, but I would never have wanted to take it where someone was actually shooting at me. As reported, the missile system was "questionable" at best. It had a max range which was classified but I can say it would hit a target at 3000 meters. It had a minimum range 0f 800 meters but that was covered by a 152mm HEAT round. We didn't have the problem of moisture on the HEAT cartridges but then, we were in Germany, not Viet Nam like the Sheridans were. The TC cupola has already been mentioned. You could lay the TC sight reticle on a target, push a button, and the main turret would slew around and line the gunner's sight up perfectly with the TC's sight. Or, you could push a different button and the TC cupola would align with the Gunner's sight. From that position, the TC could fire the gun/launcher or coax machinegun. And those systems worked flawlessly. But look at the cupola. It's located center of mass right above/behind the main gun. There is no ballistic slope and the armor is only a few inches thick. Following American doctrine of that time, the tank would wait behind the top of a ridge or hilltop with only the TC cupola exposed. When Soviet tanks appeared, the tank would move forward until the gun/launcher was exposed and engage the target. Now, the only thing the Soviet gunners could see to shoot back at would be the TC cupola. I imagine after the first battle, there would be a bunch of M60a2's running around with no cupolas... Another thing to consider about that missile: It takes time for the missile to fly from your tank to the target. And all the time that missile is flying, the a2 is sitting there, guiding the missile. Plenty of time for a Soviet tank platoon to fire back. Oh, and one more thing: NO tanker back then ever called it "Starship". I don't know where that came from, but it wasn't us...

İt's just like the Maus. When you think about it it's awesome but in reality it's really useless.

Its funny this video came out. I actually got to see one (apparently one of the very few) M60A2s. Its left on fort Knot's MOUT town. I got some pics of it and crawled over it some, the poor thing has been left to rot, but its still a sight to behold

It's kind of like the M14 in that, had it been introduced a decade or so earlier, it would've been incredibly effective, but it was effectively obsolete upon It's actual introduction.

I had a platoon sergeant who was a gunner on an M60A2 earlier in his army career. He told me that the FCS was extremely accurate but fragile. If it worked, it worked great, but if anything went wrong, forget about it.

I have a friend who was a M60A2 Platoon leader. One the crews called them Stumpies. Two Slow reload speed due to both ammo weight, Fire Prevention measures, Missile Length and electric breach system. Three Shillelagh had a minimum range in the 900 meters area all shorter ranges were dealt with HEAT-MP. Four They were great for forest fighting when proper platoon fire distribution and Overwatch planning was done to account for the loading times. Five Scary fast turret rotation. Six Fire Prevention measures included Breech scavenger system, 9 ply barrier bags over the combustible cartridges until on the loading tray plus the peel off Rubber water proof layer directly on the cartridge. Plus after every 33 rounds fired a snap ring which sealed the breech had to be replaced with a fresh one. Another friend almost caught a breech flash in the face from a worn out ring. They were out of date when issued most were rebuilt into M60A1 when withdrawn from Reserve stockpiles as newer Anti Tank systems came online. M901 Improved Tow Vehicles which in turn were replaced by all Bradly's having TOW launchers and many other systems with TOW Mounts.

ngl you’re one of the few channels i genuinely enjoy watching, always entertaining commentary, gameplay and I learn a lot from your videos.

@Spookston You can't fully appreciate the development of the M60A2 without also going into the MBT-70/KPz 70 project. MBT-70 was intended to field the longer-barreled XM150 152mm gun-launcher and otherwise replace the M60 platform, but when that project fell through, the Army brass felt the urgent need to stopgap an MBT armed with a 152mm gun-launcher, hence the M60A2.

I spent 7 years as a crewman on one as well tank commander . It was a good tank if you know how to use it. The big problem was that the Army didn’t want it in the first place.

I've always wondered if any speculative designs using the M60A2's low profile turret combined with a conventional gun system were on the board. With improvements to crew positioning the idea had obvious merit.

I love those designs from 50's-80's, when engineers made wacky but very creative things to go around the technological limitations of their time.

Spookston, I implore you to make more of these kind of videos! They are so good. Maybe something a bit longer though?

I met a retired tanker that trained on the starship. He was telling his wife "each shot cost $50K, so we never could train on it"

This is why I like spookston. I have always loved the m60a2 design, but never really knew exactly why it never really caught on. Thanks bud.

One of the mockups is still surviving as a gateguard at Amvets post 93 in Armada, Michigan. I live nearby and have visited it, it's a great little piece of history.

I thought this thing would be terrible ingame, but since I’ve been playing it it turned into one of my favorites. The armor is hit mor miss, but the armor profile is so complex it’s hard for people to figure out where to shoot you head on.

It's weird that I can remember getting a giant toy version of this tank when I was real little. There were some changes like a longer barrel. Funny how memories come back with a spark

War Thunder: This tank is awesome! Real Life: Wow, this is a shitty tank.

I love these kinds of vids, more tank info, yum yum yum. Obscure knowledge is delicious.

i never realized this thing saw actual service, i saw it in wt and thought "guess its a prototype m60"

I bought the yugoslav dlc for war game red dragon, let's just say that yugoslavian T34 85s whooped 8 starships

Very informative; Thank You.

At the time the A2 was developed, HEAT was very effective against the RH armor then in use, and missile launchers were far lighter than large caliber guns. Until multi-layer composite armor was developed HEAT rounds seemed to be indefensible, that's why the Leopard 1 and AMX 30 had such thin armor, thicker armor seemed pointless.

Been waiting for this

Knew about the Sheridan but not the m60 versions. Learn something new every day

thanks for the information about the starships!!!

Great Video.

When the army junked them some were converted into bridge tanks. You can tell them by the extended lower rear hull were the gun scavenger system was in the rear of the engine compartment . Here in Kuwait I see one of the old girls running around as a bridge tank sometimes.

the turret looks like they hired a grade 1 to design it 😂😂😂

I will say it's great that the second he talked about the lil boi (Sheridan) his Squadmate is in one. good stuff.

Spookston, you can put together quite the history lesson. Have you thought about contacting other You Tubers who do this kind of thing and collaborate with them? Like The Chieftain or Mark Felton Productions?

All those things attached to the turret, would be a fun target practice to try and shoot that all off, one bit at a time, right after you send a mean round through the commanders turret.

its like in videos where he discusses stuff his voice drops but when there is a montage of a sherman or something destroying everything he is just happy and yeah

This be one of top 5 favorite tanks in WT and I love it.

There's one chilling at my local museum. Pretty wild to look at

Kinda reminds me of the M3 tanks with how the top sections becoming so ridiculously tall.

My grandfather has memories of watching a sheridan in some kind of air-dropping trials. It exploded on impact.

What are the odds that you post this, today, when some of my friends in World of Tanks were discussing this exact tank, yesterday evening?

you know what the army needs? a tank that looks like a hamburger

I saw one of these in the AAF museum in Virginia. I didn’t know about it and it looked stupid so now I love it

Hi, just a quick question - have you considered looking into the ground vehicles of the Mass Effect series? I'd be curious to see what you've got to say about the Mako APC, Hammerhead IFV, Grizzly MBT, etc.

oh man the starship, my favourite armored warfare tank alongside bagelpanzer

Love you Spookston!

Spookston can you please talk about the Battlepass and its changes and such. (Hate the Fact that In this "Season" you need Rank 3 instead of BR to get the Challenges)

I was on the A1's and the Duces both. Duce was 155mm HE conventional rounds and laser guided missiles, They wouldn't let us keep them loaded too prone to blow up from a electrical short. They were a death trap, but fun to run around and over shit in.

Franlky I don't see who could call the Starship a bad tank, at least in the game, I found I really enjoy playing it, and do better than if I was using the T95E1.

Spookston best, pls do a video on the t32e1 :D also m60a2 looks really cool but functionally is ick

...we had the M60 & A1 in Germany in the early 70s (HHC 4/35 Armor - Iron horsemen - Illesheim)...the A2 arrived long after I'd left in July 1974...50 years ago...

Spookston : *speak English* Subtitile : I think he speak Vietnamese

I knew a guy who was part of a crew that operated one in the late '70s. He didn't think it was a bad tank for Europe. It did what was required but most were converted to M60A1 or M60A3 standard by the mid-80s.

idk about that chief, the gameplay that’s playing the background says otherwise

My new tank unit in 1980 had turned in their M-60 A2's a few months before, for the M-60 A1's I had been trained on....a gunner told me of a Shillelagh missile that had misfired coming out of the gun tube and fisseled out on the ground a few yards away... It then took off again, shooting along the ground, but he was able to get the laser guidance back on it and lifted it up and it went on to hit the target. Witness's backed this up. M-60 A2's were well liked because all crew members had their own hatch...

the A2 was my favorite tank when it was added :(

Considering how last year went, we need a new hindsight phrase. As 'Hindsight is 20/20' can sound a lot like Hindsight is a disaster.

Several of the senior NCOs I served with/under in the early to late 1980s were Vietnam War Veterans and Tankers who had served on both 152mm "gun/launcher" vehicles. The only round they all liked in Vietnam was the "Beehive" round. I only trained with the 105mm version, and found it to be nasty, to say the least, and can only imagine what kind of carnage a 152mm would be capable of. NONE of those NCOs liked or trusted any other round other than maybe (and they were somewhat divided in their opinions) the HEP round which to one degree or another they considered VERY effective on certain targets such as lightly armored/unarmored vehicles and SOME structures. None of the Combat Veterans/Tankers, who had served on them, liked the M60A2 and much preferred the M60A1 and M60A3 mounting the 105mm main gun and the rounds that gun was capable of firing. More than one of those men transitioned, as did I, to the First Generation M1 Abrams MBT which also mounted the 105mm main gun.....And don't get me started on how much many of us came to loath that tank while bearing in mind, of course, that it WAS the First Generation model.

Sums up American design. They want it to do everything, so it does a few things mediocre and misses the point of its original purpose.

*Yes, I would like to know more*

Make a video about the LOSAT system !

Another massive flaw with the FCS. It required time to charge in order to fire the ammunition. If you pull the trigger early the Fire Computer resets.

i pass by two of these at work. both no longer opporational, they are in parks as monuments. i kept mistaking them for Patone tanks

Idea for an April fools event R3pocalypse Players must defend themselves from an endless stream of R3s Just like the simulations

The local national guard armory near me has one of these on static display out front

OK, I was an 11E10/20 W1. Trained at Knox, served in 1/32 Armor, 3AD (the first and BEST M60A2 battalion in USAEUR!). Many of the things you say are quite true about the deuce - but WE never called it the Starship. That is something that came out during the 80s I'm guessing....never heard it said while a tanker. For most of us, the main issue was the electric breech. In tank to tank warfare, it is who get's there "firstest with the mostest." An electric breech is a lot slower than the mechanical breech we were used to using on the A1. The laser rangefinder was great (when it worked). The missile launching was a joke. We could rarely get them to work, and the company techs would always try to blame it on the gunner. We were well trained - but given crappy missiles. Good thing the balloon never went up. All in all, it was a great test bed for things that wound up being used in later tanks but it is a damn good thing we never went to war with it.

the auto-generated subtitles are hilarious to watch

A nice video, but at parts you do talk a little too fast for it to be comfortable to listen to, maybe just slow it down a tiny bit. But on the whole, still very interesting. Nice work

Since this brings it to mind, have you ever played Wargame Red dragon, Spookston?

Hey spookston, if i make a military styled shooter with vehicles, would you review it and give your opinion?

I genuinely did not know Ravenfield was this popular, and I've been playing since the Beta in 2017.

ah that Halo ODST music. Gets me every time

Considering the A2 being based around the Shillalegh missile gun launcher usage, and the gun launcher was a big part of the issues of the Sheridan, follow up after this on the M551?

I had the Job in 1999-2000 of sending 125 of them to the jet bombing range in NV to be targets and the remaining 400 to a small town in Indiana to cut up recycled and melted down. I got to drive a few of them and have some fun with them and always thought this model was a lot cooler than the M60 or M48

I worked on an M60A2 that was equipped with a dozer blade about 3 years ago. I guess there were roughly 10 A2’s total that had the blade mounted. Needless to say, the way the Army decided to mount the linkage and hydraulic system was even garbage.

My first PLT SGT crewed an M60A2. He never talked about it. If you asked him about it he'd have to drink from is "special canteen."

My Uncle used to crew an m60. A1 varient I believe. The one thing he never shuts up about is how uncomfortable the seats are compared to other tanks. Don't know why that is, maybe they had different seats I suppose

I was an Armor officer 74-99 1) Never heard anyone call a M60A2 a "Starship" in all that time. I think that name was dreamed by some wannabe years later 2) When I was critical about the A2 at AOAC, guys from Germany rose to its defense, they had learned how to make it work and liked it 3) The A2 was deployed in pure A2 battalions and not in mixed units 4) What killed it was the rate of fire. Even if all the problems with the missile had been solved, the rate of fire was too slow to "service" the number of targets in a European environment (Remember that it had to be guided out to impact as opposed to being fire and forget like a gun) 5) The Closed Breech Scavenging System was nothing new. Warships had been using it since the early 20th Century (Watch video of a battleship gun firing. See the puff of smoke after the smoke from firing disappears? That's the '"air wash" system in use, clearing out smoke, toxic fumes and residue) It had been thought that a fume extractor would do the job (you can see it on early M551's and M60A2's wrapped around the gun tube) Unfortunately, no., it didn't 6) The hulls from the A2's were converted AVLB's. The M88 recovery vehicles were based on M48 technology, which was NOT a conversion of anything 7) Originally the plan had been to convert all of the plain M60's to M60A2's. Their 105mm turrets would be remounted on M48 and M48A1 hulls stripped of their 90mm turrets at the same time they were upgraded from gasoline to AVDS-1790 diesel engines (similar to the M48A3 conversion program). Note that the M48A5 kept the M48 turret, upgraded to take a 105mm gun and fire control along with the M48A3 automotive package 8) Both the M551 and M60A1 suffered from being on the bleeding edge of technology. Sixties technology with discrete components as opposed to solid state chips couldn't take the shocks of tank service. None the less, the systems and concepts pioneered in the M60A2 were brought into fruition in the M60A3 TTS and M1 series.

It also came out during Vietnam, where anti tank firepower came as a distant second to anti infantry capability

Back in the day, I had a R8 next to my name, I 0like the A2 but I also loved the M551 also. I spent a a great of time in Germany along the Fulda Gap.

That story about premature detonating ammunition in Sheridans is very sad.

The irony is that the M60A2 and M247 are just about my favourite vehicles in War Thunder. The M60A2 is a bundle of quirks (some good, some bad) and oddball options (lobby slow HEAT matched to fast laser rangefinder, fast turret etc which should be great for urban combat but matched with slow reload etc). The M247, at 8.3br, seems vastly more capable than the M163 at 8.0br. Curious to see how the new over-pressure update (today in War Thunder) affects their ability.

Yeah, I skipped this thing entirely and I don't envision ever going back to play it. In WT it's just a larger slower M551 with an LRF. It wouldn't surprise me if it gets a BR drop sometime in the future.

Game wise I dont think I ever payed to crew this thing, just skipped it in favor of the Sheridan which just seemed like a more fun version of it

what sound mod do you use?

Could you do a video giving your thoughts on the proposal to outfit, I believe it was to be an M60, with a GAU-8 Gatling gun?

Is that the original soundtrack from the movie or the "remade by ear since they didn't have the rights" version from the game?

In wargame: European escalation, the starship is broken, its main gun was decent for taking out tanks and the auto cannon shredded helicopters meaning you didn’t have to waste spawn points on AA units allowing for more starships.