How Batman Was Stolen 

KnowledgeHub i was wondering why the voice sounds so naisily.

He did really well on it. I really enjoyed the video

It seems like hes trying to sound like you a bit too hard

Hey Cody, I love your videos both on KnowledgeHub and AlternateHistoryHub, and they really intrigue me. I'd like it if you did a Video on the rise and fall of the Confederate Government. Thanks for all the great content, man

He's cool but please come back

*claps*that was excelente*gun sounds*

That pun was *batty* I'll see myself out.

that one was covered in SHADOWS

what lack of humor BATMAN

Trygve Plaustrum Perhaps someone should give Kane the Finger?

And have no shame about lying or taking sole credit for things that make you money.

Funny how Bob Kane is more like Bruce Wayne and Bill Finger is more like Batman himself. lol

Alternatively, learn what "ghost writing" means, and how it works. Bill Finger never blabbed to the media; *he kept ghostwriting*.

I don't think either one of us was saying Bill was legally done wrong, we know he kept Ghostwriting, we're just pointing out the character flaws of Kane (of how he and DC wouldn't even talk on the matter) when it came to light. Which really only threw gas on the fire.

@brackonstudios, but since "created by" means "lots of royalties", you *are* saying that he was legally done wrong.

David Umstattd deadpool

elektron117 ???

Rubio Jesse sounds like deadpool

Not really. It's well known who Pool is. A better person would be Spider-Man,Bats,and most other vigilantes.

Rubio Jesse Well, what if I told you we know who Batman is, too.

I agree, it feels like a personal betrayal. It's like when I saw that movie about the real history of McDonald's and how the creators of McDonald's were utterly robbed of their business by some shark.

Interestingly the "guy" that took the McDonald brothers' concepts and made the powerhouse of restaurants we know today is named *Ray Kroc* . lol Bob Kane was a terrible person, and it goes even deeper than we see here. Not only did Bob cheat Bill Finger (and his "co - workers" [co-creator, and artists] including Jerry Robinson, George Russos, more...), he in effect also "cheated" nearly everyone that worked on Batman and Detective Comics - because he got that famous "created by" byline above all others that worked on those books. In a related story - Bob has been accused of "tracing" a couple of his first (Finger "inspired" costume) Batman poses. And it is widely known Kane literally copied a very popular Todd McFarlane drawing of Batman (from Detective Comics,iirc) with a super flowing cape, and sold it as his own art on the collectors market (and I think he tried licensing it to DC!) !! Thank goodness people like Jerry Robinson, Neal Adams, Jim Sternako, and Art Adams, Jack Kirby, et al would go on the champion "artists rights" to have a stake in what they create (before and after 'Image Comics' went on to make this a more normal practice). It took decades for Superman creators Simon and Shuster to get full permanent "credit" and a little more... compensation for all they did.

At least Bill had a son and a wife

didn't even realize till the end i just thought he had a new mic or something.

They don't sound anything alike to me. *shrug*

rankothefiremage That's strange, I thought they sounded pretty alike tbh

This may sound weird, but it's like his brother's voice is the voice that has been in every single AlternateHistoryHub or KnowledgeHub video. Not the deep voice we _should_ be used to, this voice. This voice is the one I know and I don't know why.

you guys are weird Tyler has the "movie review" voice but not remembering codys distinctive voice is retarded

Hungary I don't think he will reply though...

Ali Haleem that wasn't part of the deal

Lmao.

GodSlayingBunny shhh one can dream.

But what if it was Tyler?

Patrick Mike He came up with half of the concept and did the original artwork. Edison barely did any work himself.

+Peter Gray How much of the artwork was actually done by Bob Kane is disputed. The guy is infamous for hiring plenty of ghost artists who would draw in his name without credit for decades, such as Dick Sprang for example. On top of that he wasn't a great artist and is known to have traced other people's work constantly.

+Marvelfannumber1-Well, in Batman and Bill, it is established that Bob Kane wasn't even the one who came up with the concept of Batman's image the way we know him and are so familiar with him today. It was Bill Finger who took Kane's original concept-which resembled closer to Robin-and based on Kane's ideas for the character, redesigned Batman to the appearance we all know and love now. And given that Kane was so adamant on weaseling Finger out of the money, the fame and the glory, even well beyond when Finger finally died, I wouldn't put it past him to have done much the same thing to any "ghost artists" that were working underneath him. And much like Finger, they probably weren't knowledgeable enough about the contract Kane signed to where they had no idea at first just how much Kane was stiffing them out of the money they were owed. Worker protections were far and beyond worse at the time and it's not like DC really cared who was doing what under Kane. As long as Kane turned in everything on time and they only had to pay one person, it was fine as long as they were concerned. At least there is a significant debate over just how much Jerry Robinson had involvement in Joker's creation, but there should be less debate that Bill Finger was right there with Bob Kane to create the character. And after Bill Finger finally had enough and ceased involvement with the comics, who knows how many writers and artists after him weren't properly credited under Kane's reign to where there were far more others who, thanks to Kane, died broke, penniless, and alone.

@@petergray2712 Finger came up with the idea of batman wearing a dark suite with a pointy cape and bat cowl. Bob's initial concept of batman was the blonde guy wearing a red suite with a domino mask and bat wings sticking out of his back. Finger created the skeleton and mass of the characters and stories while Kane applied the skin but told everyone he did everything himself.

Not quite, in many cases Eddison straight up stole credit. Bob Kane's ghost writers understood and agreed to not getting credit from the start. It wasn't necissarily fair, but the ghost writers did give Kane permission to take all the credit

The first Robin was a girl in a one-off comic.

maggintons horrifying.

Squirrels would run amok, and pigeons/doves would run the world.

Definitely less popular, Cody has a much nicer baritone and metre, judging by this video Tyler voice is less theatrical, put simply, he's just a forgettable narrator.

It would feel like Kaptainkristian.

Misael Ramirez He would die later.

ipjorr That was clever

What if he was an actual god then like he wanted to be.

Then he probably would'v driven his army to certain death, and by extension himself. Alexander is one of histories biggest wreckless ego maniacal dumbasses, it's a shame we remember him as "the Great", if it weren't for the fact that he had awesome bodyguards, he would've died much earlier in his life defining expedition.

Pimpa Licious Care to elaborate?

+Gotham's Reckoning-Athena, Bill Finger's granddaughter, actually did and under the help and encouragement of Marc Tyler Nobleman, a huge Batman fan who made it his life mission to make sure Bill Finger finally got the credit he deserved, she railed against DC and Warner Bros. until they FINALLY gave in and gave Bill Finger credit as the co-creator as Batman. To anyone that has noticed, with any DC movie now that features Batman, the credits go Created by Bob Kane and (or with) Bill Finger. It's great that Athena never gave up either because she's actually one of the few surviving members of Bill Finger's family. Her father, Bill Finger's son, died a long time ago due to AIDS. Athena only has one son of her own. And I think the trademark laws required a statue of limitations where Athena HAD to fight for credit, otherwise, Bill never would've been able to get the recognition he always deserved. He would've simply disappeared into history, no one would ever known who he was or just how he was connected to Batman, and the "hero" would never have gotten his due. That's why its so touching people like Nobleman were willing to fight so hard to make sure a good person finally got his due and Finger's family can finally rest a little easier, knowing that their grandfather/great grandfather is FINALLY getting the love and respect from Batman fans all over the world he ALWAYS deserved.

@@feraflauna3238 I saw the documentary too, it was truly heartbreaking to see how much had to be done for poor Bill Finger to actually get the credit he deserved. Now I refer to Bob Kane as the man who named Batman & Bill Finger as the man who created him, that's the way it should be.

@@jongon0848 And why exactly is Bob Kane considered the "creator" of Batman? Is it because he had the first "germ" of the idea? (Clearly, before Finger, he didn't have anything concretely planned out). How far should the credit for a creator go? Does it count when someone only has the idea? When ideas are not concrete and mere ideas are not even fixed as trademarks under legal law? Or does it or should it count when someone picks up, takes the idea, and folds it into something unique and special? These are legimate difficult questions to answer. From a legal perspective, should Bob Kane ever have been considered the creator of Batman?.. . .I'd argue no. . .He doesn't and never did have a right to claim that one. As I stated above, ideas are not protected under trademark law. Kane's idea for Batman wasn't even concrete enough to fit into the category of an idea. He had an inkling of what he wanted to do, but he lacked the patience and the effort to actually do it himself. He went to someone who he knew could do the work for him. And indeed, it seems Finger really is Batman's true creator in everything outside of Kane's very vague germ/inkling of an idea. Finger was the one who redesigned the suit from Kane's prototype-which interestingly, resembled Robin more than Batman, and before he knew anything about the character, gave Batman his iconic look. Finger was the one who came up with Bruce/Batman's horrible, tragic story. The subtley, nuance, complexity of Gotham and Batman's world? Seems to have come directly from Finger himself. . .Iconic villains such as Joker, Two Face, etc. Yup, Finger was a hand behind those as well. . . Kane was just the guy who punted the work off to someone else and sat on the couch eating potato chips, and yet, he is still credited as the guy who had the initial idea behind Batman. . .In my eyes, I view that Kane should not even be given the credit for even that. To me, Batman was pretty much all Bill Finger's creation. Through and through. It is nice that Finger is FINALLY getting the proper credit he deserves now but I do wish the credits could be amended further where it would generous to include: created by: Bill Finger. based on an idea by Bob Kane. That would be the NICEST Bob Kane deserves and I feel those credits are far more accurate as to just who was Batman's true creator always was and always will be. And it will never be Bob Kane.

@@feraflauna3238 It depends on your perspective on the whole situation. Kane technically did name Batman and had rough ideas for the character, but like u said, how much of that makes a difference when it doesn't even resemble the Batman we all know and love. But like you said, Finger deserves all the credit for making Batman who he was, he created the Caped Crusader and I am always gonna refer to him as the true creator of Batman, I don't care if Kane's name is signed over it.

Not diminish the argument against Bob Kane basically using and profiting from most of the work Bill Finger put into creating 'Batman'... Jerry Robinson helped co - create Robin and The Joker, and artists like George Russos contributed to making what we know today... Bob Kane went so far as straight up copying Batman art by Todd McFarlane, and selling it on the collector market.

Jfunkey Why would anyone want to be a ghostwriter though?

Cosmas Dexie Because it's a job. And it pays money. That and you get to work with and help some very interesting clients.

Jfunkey But, why not be a regular writer? 😅(I sort of get it for the interesting clients)

"Yet still, a ghost writer is a ghost writer. That's their job." You're just as sad as this story. I A WRITER tells you.

@@CDexie Some people don't like massive publicity, maybe Bill was one of them.

gimzod76 yep which is why i laugh at people praising finger as the "Real creator" of batman when in reality he was just as bad as Bob creatively

Pretty much every story is influenced by something else that came before it though

Who knows what evil lies in the hearts of the men? The shadow knows.

Bill wasn't really copying to a creatively despot level from The Shadow, plenty of heroes of that time had secret identities and copying a characteristic doesnt really discredit what made Bill's Batman did with his villains, ideas and overall stories.

they stole the entire story not concept the intie comic book and put batman in the shadow place.

Ja of the Cob yup

It’s basically Cody without his deep, sexy voice.

He is also fatter

IN THE NAME OF KANE!

Rule of thumb, Space Sponge. You can't kill the messiah.

Space Sponge Robert Khan is Bob's full name

THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE!!!

snakeisninja Exactly what I was thinking.

Stan Lee, if I remember correctly, didn't write most of them. He mostly did what Kane did here. Come up with the character concept and hand it over to someone else to do most of the actual work. Granted, Stan Lee was actually more involved, but not as much as one might think.

James A Clouder True, but I hear Jack Kirby was not too bothered by it. Everyone knows that comic creation is a team effort, Stan is just the director and a figurehead of sorts. Kind of like how Sam Raimi gets credit for movies created by entire teams of professionals.

+ timemadscientist Greatscot! -- It also doesn't hurt that Marvel's contracts for the most part spelled out who got credit for creating a character. That's part of the reason why there were so many "superstar artists" in the 90s and why Rob Liefeld was ever allowed within 50 feet of a pencil. Writers and artists sharing credit can be tricky, Artists define the "look" of a character, which can be trademarked and renewed indefinitely. Writers are primarily defined by who came up with the idea for a character even though characters don't settle into their "iconic" form for a number of years. For instance the super-villain "Luthor" changed quite dramatically between his origins as professional super-criminal to zombie-in-a-tube to "competent Donald Trump." Handled poorly, a complete "reinvention" of a character could lead to legal issues. Which is why "writer/artists" made things so much simpler. Until the superstars started trying to take their characters with them when they left. Look into the lawsuits of Todd McFarlane some time if you're a sad, sad, aficionado of copyright law like me.

I really don't know who did more of what. But i can at least say Stan Lee did give credit to artist that he worked with. You cant say that about Bob Kane. At any time Bob Kane could have given Bill Finger the credit he deserved. But instead he allowed him to die penniless and alone. And then did nothing about it, afterwards. To me that unforgivable.

There's two factors that make Lee so much different than Kane in this context: 1) Lee always gave credit to the artists and people who worked with him. He would get other staffers involved in projects and try to get their names out there. Sometimes it wasn't enough, and artists had to talk to him about it, but he listened (like giving Ditko the plotter credit he wanted for Spider-Man). Certain artists reacted differently to this, like Ditko. He was a follower of Ayn Rand's philosophy, and didn't think Lee deserved any credit. 2) It was really the public and the media that spun this out of control. Lee's name was always on the comics, while names of artists would change between books, so the public and media just picked Lee up, and began crediting him for all of it.

Dark Drake I doubt Finger cared as long as he got work. I say this as a ghostwriter myself.

+Dark Drake-It wasn't just that-I myself think, based on how Bill Finger was described-he was a sweet, softspoken person-that Finger wasn't out for the fame or fortune. It doesn't justify though that neither Kane nor DC properly credited him or financed him for all the work he was doing for the series. Pretty much for DC, as long as Kane turned everything in on time and they only had one person they could send the check to, they didn't ask questions and they didn't care. Kane was pretty much pocketing most of the money that SHOULD'VE gone over to Finger himself or any of the other ghost writers/artists that might've and probably were there under Kane's supervision. Finger finally died broke and penniless in an abandoned apartment while Kane was probably living and lapping it up in a mansion at that point in time. Not to mention Kane owed (although like Finger, they mostly and really weren't out for the money either) financial compensation to Finger's family-Finger's son, who, much like his father, died broke and penniless-and then Athena, Finger's granddaughter, and her son for decades. Compensation neither he nor DC/Warner Bros. were interested in giving due. While Finger wasn't looking for fame and fortune and probably didn't want it, he deserved FAR better than what he got. He deserved not to get shit on by his "friend" Bob Kane, nor have it to where Bob Kane tried very very hard to effectively erase Finger out of comic book history to where very few people (outside the comic book industry, many in there CLEARLY knew) ever knew just who Bill Finger was, let alone there was a person called Bill Finger once. And that is just absolutely deplorable.

Plz

Dumb frogposter

Jakkboi715 Yes!

Jakkboi715 Eh entente wasnt good and Italy betrayed its previous allies.

frogposters must die

Kane actually admitted that his ego got in the way and after Finger died he said in an interview (think it's on Wikipedia in Bill finger credit) Kane said if he could go back fifteen years before Bill's death he would credit him saying that he deserves it after all the things he gave to make batman the charecter nay the person we all know and love today. Actually glad that he and Robinson among others are getting the credit they deserve.

hes not cody ITS TIME TO RIOT!!!

the king I'm 24 and I still love watching Batman the Animated series

Better late than never.

Yeah lol

I know, not enough people know about the issue, in fact I assumed this was what the video was going to be, going by the title.

Yeah, me too. kind of disappointed...

The Shadow knows.....

Exactly. The Shadow was, in many ways, far bigger than Batman. Just look up how damn popular the Shadow was back in the 30's, and it's no wonder why a fair chuck of the earliest Batman stories are almost one-for-one ripoffs. Honestly, when I watch this video, I thought you was going to talk about the creators stole from the Shadow. Instead, I got this. Shame on you man for doing that. You really needed to do your research.

MUHAHAHAHA

Hopeofmen its his brother

I actually like the way this is edited but... ITS NOT CODY LETS RIOT

Are you saying it's not Cody's time to riot? Well then, when is his time to riot?

calm down let change happen

+Hopeofmen Fuck off..

Peter Terranova truly the greatest detective

ian The Knowledge Hub guy is Cody, and the person talking is his brother, Tyler. Don't worry, nothing happened to him.

Not really, I think he was called the Dark Knight way before Miller, but Miller brought the title to the spotlight. Plus, I'd like to give more credit to Dennis O'Neill(I think he made up the Dark Knight) who brought back the dark elements of Batman, so you could say Bill Finger, Dennis O'Neill and Frank Miller created the Batman we all know.

Well in reality Kane stole Batman from The Shadow by Walter B. Gibson, he got better later, but Batman's origin is plagiarism, I love Batman, but that is true.

Also Jerry Robinson gets no love but may have created the Joker

H.J. Robertson Denny in particular gets little love and recognition for his work, especially his Batman stuff. He created Ra's Al Ghul, Arkham Asylum and basically set the table that Miller ate at...for eight lousy if influential issues over the course of a few years. Denny did his Batman stories for DECADES and gets less love...really pisses me off.

+Seby0313-Actually. . .Bob Kane did steal Finger's work. It's still considered plagiarism-Kane and DC never properly credited nor financed Finger for his contributions-so taking someone's work, even if you are collaborating together-and taking all the credit for yourself without properly acknowledging the other person's contributions-THAT is plagiarism. It is true that unlike Kane, Finger was not out for the fame and fortune part. However, according to Batman and Bill, while he definitely wasn't out for the glory, he wasn't exactly in a stable financial situation either to really question how he was being compensated. Kane never told him how much money DC was giving to just Kane himself, which was significantly more than what Finger was being paid by Kane, far and beyond-Kane pocketed most of the money for himself. Finger didn't know or if he ever found out just how bad Kane was stiffing him on the profits, it's likely he was way too nice and soft spoken to want to raise a fuss over the issue, even while the rest of his family did. Ultimately though, Bob Kane didn't just squeeze Finger out of the money. He squeezed his "friend" out of all the recognition and rightful accolades Finger should've gotten as the true (co)creator of Batman. He was phased out so far from the recesses of comic history, people believed Kane and Kane alone created Batman, all by himself to where only a few people outside the comic business (because apparently, people in the business DID know), even in Finger's lifetime, knew the truth and that was another creator besides Bob Kane. I didn't even know until this year when I finally saw the movie and that proves how spiteful and vindictive Kane was to his "friend." It wasn't enough that Kane squeezed Finger out of money to where Finger died broke and penniless. Kane tried as hard as he could to squeeze Finger completely out of history entirely, made sure no one was left remembering there was ever anyone called Bill Finger related to Batman. There was only Bob Kane and always Bob Kane-the masterstroke genius who created Batman. Kane wanted all the fame, fortune, and glory to himself, and DC/Warner Bros. was perfectly content on doing so until Athena Finger demanded recognition for her grandfather. Because after all these years, just having Bill Finger FINALLY be credited like he always deserved to be was what the Finger family always wanted.

What he's saying is that, as a ghost writer, Finger wasn't necessarily legally entitled to any of the proceeds. Anyway, it sounds like his suggestions to Kane were made informally. I agree that, in an ethical sense, Kane should have acknowledged Finger's contribution.

keybladechosn1 I don't see why it's special that a woman made it, but yeah.

Technic 12 Making a point the testosterone-heads would hate, how they owe much of what they love to a woman doing it first. To the anti-SJW types in particular, that's heresy.

except for the fact that his first comic was a direct a rip off of a shadow story also Secret identities have been in mythologies for thousands of years

Who's Bill Finger in the Stan Lee situation?

CodeKillerz jack kirby

HojozVideos it's his brother Tyler

HojozVideos It's his brother

Youssef AppDroid Why is that not in the description or video itself....

"Video narrated by Tyler Franklin"

Watch it till the end.