How Beethoven Writes for Orchestra 

Was just reading how E flat major was considered the most 'heroic' and 'majestic' of the keys. Apparently, Beethoven's was so influential with this opinion, it became part of the soviet-realism checklist when assessing a new work. I just read that and thought of this video.

I'm probably one of the most massive geeks in your audience when it comes to Beethoven, and I wouldn't mind just listening to you talking and illustrating his symphonies, especially in terms of orchestration which still is very hard for me, for hours on end. I know a lot of effort goes into analysing and making videos like this, and I just want you to know that it's massively appreciated!

I feel like "How X Writes for Orchestra" could become a great series. Haydn, Mozart, C.P.E. Bach, Mahler, Brahms, Wagner. There are many great symphonists to choose from. There's even really nice ways to tie them together. Haydn learned a lot from studying C.P.E. Bach's style, as did Mozart. Haydn and Mozart had a ton of influence on each other. The later romantics took a lot of lessons from Beethoven.

Is the thumbnail a satire of the jacob collier thing with herbie hancock. If so thats brilliant.

I love how your violin produces a full orchestra sound, timpani and all.

Very well explained! Would love to see you do a series on orchestration. Perhaps you could explain "why does Tchaikovsky always sound like Tchaikovsky?"

"...and we can double it an octave higher in the clarinets." *ACCORDION*

Hahaha amazing, I thought the video couldn't get better and then I heard your blues ending. Great job and nice guitar skills too!

David - you had me at Beethoven. Would love to see more of pouring through the scores of the old masters and isolating elements like orchestration, harmonic analysis, structure, etc. +1

I guess Beethoven is your Herbie

That outro made me a patreon supported holy shit it was the best "Whatever"

love your channel Bruce. if I may, I noticed something really cool in Beethoven's 21st piano sonata, the Waldstein. if I'm not mistaken, this is the first sonata Beethoven writes on a more expanded piano: for the first time in history, F6 isn't the highest note on the keyboard. I believe A6 is the highest note on the new piano, and it isn't until the 23rd piano sonata the Apassionata that we go all the way up to C7. The reason I'm saying all this is, in the first movement of the Waldstein, we have only ONE note above F6 in the entire exposition, Before he shows it, he goes up to F6 over and over and over, as if to trick people into still thinking that's the peak. But then, a single measure of F#6 played at the absolute tail end of the exposition. The way Beethoven prepares and shows it is extremely dramatic. People hearing the piece for the first time must have surely known this piano was newly expanded, with many musicians in the audience knowing it went tip to A6 now. When the piece modulates to A major int he development, after all the constant scales shooting up but never reaching past F6 except for that one measure, people must have thought "okay it's A major, SURELY he will go all the way up to A6 now." But he doesn't, he instead goes back to C major. We get a single new note, G6, all the way in measure 208 - finally a new brand new note, and it's the next highest note after the F#6 Beethoven teased us with only for an instant. Are we EVER going to reach A6? Now listen to the full rising passages at measure 225 and 267 :) It gives the piece a whole new look, doesn't it? I've never heard anyone talk about this, I'd love it if you took a look (and decided to make a video ;) ) but just wanted to share it. Cheers!

If I try to glean information directly from an orchestral score, I generally wind up a bit overwhelmed from the sheer volume of information within, so I like hearing from someone like you who can extract specific useful information like this.

the descending scale idea you discuss around 9:00 is very similar to the 'shepard tone' idea from the 20th century, appears Beethoven was also aware of it

Ah the Eroica! My favorite of Beethoven's symphonies. The first movement totally obliterated any apprehension I had of classical music when I first heard it, launching me down a lifelong journey of musical discovery. I enjoyed your analysis, thanks for the great video!

I love Beethoven so much including his music 🥰

If you look at a lot of Beethoven's orchestral scores, you'll notice that what gives his orchestral pieces their signature loudness and "punch" is his generous doubling of chordal thirds. It creates small (yet noticeable) dissonance with the overtones of the root and the fifth. You never see this kind of doubling in Mozart.

That phrase "Turning up the EQ" reminded me of a part in Beethoven's 9th symphony, 4th movement, in the syncopated "Alla Marcia" section. When the piccolo first comes in, it seems more like a brightening of the timbre than an added voice.

I cannot tell you how much your videos help young and self-taught composers like myself in our journey into music composition. Thank you David!!

Normally I can't stand Beethoven, but this video really illustrates how the famous dynamism and maximalism of his style is captured by very sophisticated methods--and if nothing else, you have to respect him for those grand, sonoric achievements. Thanks for this, Mr. Bruce! I'd love to see more of these analytical, score-heavy videos on Beethoven and other composers, if one day you discovered the gumption to do more of them.

You made one of the most exciting Beethoven analysis I’ve ever seen on RU-vid! Great work! :) Would love to see more videos like this explaining orchestration fundamentals and analyzing classical masterpieces. Also it would be very interesting to watch how to compose for String Quartets, Piano + Strings and other typical instrument groups

I think this is my favorite video, to date, of your channel. Thank you :)

I love this style of analysis!!!! Great job and keep them coming!!!

OH how I wished this went on for HOURS, David! Thanks for a delicious video!

This is absolutely brilliantly made! I could watch you show and explain like this with SO many of my favorite classical pieces!

What a treat! Thank you. Would love to see more of this.

World class educator - clear, concise & connected! Thanks again David :)

Notable work. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, and skill at explaining in an entertaining way. Learning about Beethoven's orchestral chord structures makes listening more interesting.

many thanks for the great video. the Eroica is one of my favorite symphonies and it was cool to learn some more about its orchestration.

Beethoven was my first proper introduction to classical music, when I joined a choir to sing the 9th symphony, at 14 years old. It was like listening to a miracle, sitting behind the orchestra hearing and watching the music being made. I've always loved how Beethoven writes his woodwind passages, too.

It shows that Beethoven new all the instruments he was writing for. He made the score so it would fit each instrument. Something that is difficult to do and many (even some famous) composers struggled with. Chopin for example has written two concerto's, but he only really knew how to write for piano and it shows in the orchestration.

Awesome video David, very enlightening!

@David Bruce Composer Thank you for that amazing video David was really well made!

This is a wonderful video David! Though I am a former music professor, It still took me years to "find my path" with my orchestrations. Most of this was from studying and teaching scores by Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, and Richard Strauss, and many other past masters. Then I eventually learned how to incorporate some of what I've learned from playing in rock, R&B, and progressive rock bands. As to your comments about the 3rd Mvt, now and then, I also use my cellos in double stop bowed 5ths, to simulate the power of a rock guitar "chunking" muted root-five chords. I also am very careful about not using to many 5ths in my orchestrations. Composing and orchestration is a life long art and journey of never ending learning...Peace!

Thank you for sharing your expertise! I really enjoyed this analysis of Beethoven's 3rd. I hope you do more analysis like this one, soon.

I’m really glad to see that all types of art are appreciated online, and the communities interweave as they do. You mentioned Van Gogh’s painting 6:20 which was one of the Nerdwriter1’s recent videos showing that you all draw inspiration from each other, and it’s cool to have access to that kind of constant discussion online. Thanks for putting out great videos!

excellent video. thanks for RU-vid, and all the software makes this analysis possible. nice job.

So much valuable information! Thanks for sharing!

One of the best contents on composition. Thanks a ton for mentoring folks interested in music in-depth.

Thanks, I don't find a lot of orchestration analysis on RU-vid, so this is a big help!

I am learning so much! Thank you!

I was just wondering if there was an analysis video on Beethoven's 3rd symphony when I came across yours. Amazing video!

I like this, enjoy it and really appreciate your presentation! Thank you.

Another excellent video David - keep going with this orchestration series, it's pitched just right.

Wonderful stuff as always.

Brilliant! This video came up as a suggested watch on RU-vid having never seen your videos before. As someone who has recently fallen in love with Beethoven's late quartets (and Beethoven's music in general) this video has spurred me on to go away and listen to the Symphony's properly - some great explanations here. Thanks.

This is made really well. Captivating and keeps your attention well done mate!

"You can omit the 5th, but never really the 3rd" Mozart's Requiem, ending with every instrument playing D and/or A: *awkwardly exits the room (but in all honesty, the ending of the Requiem had nearly no input by Mozart, as the manuscript he wrote out didn't have anything past the Hostia, thus meaning that the last four movements were basically untouched)

One of the best videos about music in youtube! Great Job.

Really fascinating. Please do more of this.

always such a pleasure to view these videos. ty.

Its the space between the voices of the notes that create an airy breathy and real sounding hit.

Thank you so much! This was actually very helpful!

Like others, I greatly appreciate the time, effort, and skill you put into your musical analysis videos; this is yet another really thoughtful, informative, and educational piece of work: thanks very much, David.

I’m very pleased by this, my composition teacher got me to do this to all of the Beethoven symphonies. I strongly believe that this is one the most helpful things I’ve ever done to deepen my understanding of orchestration and composition. Great video as always!

Fascinating. And I’m not a musician, composer, or theorist. I can’t fathom the genius behind what you explained, and how you deciphered and delivered it. Thank you.

Thanks David! I've dabbled on a few of your videos before and now am a subscriber. I'm flattered that you think of me as clever! Enjoy all the videos I've stumbled across beforehand and will continue to enjoy!

Thoroughly enjoying your videos, David! Just discovered them today.

You are great! Thanks David

Great stuff! I’d love to see more videos on orchestration like this!

Another fabulous video 👍

This is a great lesson on the use of the 5th. To throw in everything to get a big sound can make it muddy. Let the listener fill in the gaps? You've given us a lot to think about. Thanks.

Really interesting video. Thank you!

Thanks a lot for this video, it answers a lot some questions that remained obscure for me...greetings from France Bruce!

Great content as usual! THX!

Somehow not surprised Beethoven was writing with Shepherd tones centuries before they were described

Thanks that was terrific! I will be looking to see what else you’ve got

Really helpful! Thanks.

Just found your series of videos. Subscribed immediately (and submitted my first comment on any RU-vid). What an amazing series you have compiled! Thank you so much for posting these and pushing through the myths and stodgy arrogance that so often tar this genre. You’re a legend!

This was amazing!

thank you so much for these

I simply loved the video. Subscribed...

Bloody brilliant. More of these analyses please!

Such a great analysis and easy to follow! Thank you very much.

Man, I absolutelylove your t-shirt!

Very insightful commentary.

Excellent breakdown really enlightening

Brilliant video!

Very informative. Thank you.

This was awesome!

thank you, that was interesting and informative. the editing must have taken ages, a blinding job well done

Please more videos like this! I am not at all interested in writing for orchestra but all of this information is definitely applicable to a lot of other styles of music.

great great video maestro Bruce!

your best video yet!!!

Great stuff!

Great video! I hope you''ll upload more videos like this.

I’ve been subscribed to your channel for some time now and the content you make is among some of the most informative, thought provoking and perhaps most importantly, practically applicable that I’ve seen on RU-vid. Alongside composer/sound designer, Christian Henson’s channel (from Spitfire Audio), your video essays have opened up entire avenues and approaches to making music which I had not even known existed beforehand. Thank you for your time and energy in this. It really is appreciated.

Bravo well done, its always thrilling to see what turns might be made and choices in melodic movement especially in the context of orchestra! Would be great to hear that with Lutoslawski's works!

I'm just a music listener, buy anyway I enjoyed your explanation very much. And of course, I envy your acquaintance with Beethoven!

HI Bruce amateur composer here. I really appreciate your work it is really helping me compose I am having a performance and the V and A soon. excited 😆

"tense subdued power".... YES! Such a great composition technique. Great observation!

REally nice video and information. Thank you!

Funny and insightful mate ! Top stuff

Yes you only touched on the epic achievement of the eroica symphony. I actually heard from some arrogant musicologists, that Beethoven was not a good orchestrator... well I'm not sure what planet they're on. But a Beethoven score makes perfect sense to me. He was especially good with woodwind instruments and the effects and highlights they could produce. This was fascinating to watch this. Thanks.

you are and excellent teacher! I couldn't read music let alone compose my way out of a wet paper bag, and I feel like I get it and I really appreciate your effort and skill at communicating music!

I am not a musician trained or otherwise. I'm a listener. And this really helps me in my listening, to hear these pieces anew.

Very interesting video, as always, you make music analysis very easy to understand and enjoy! Today, I love Beethoven "Eroica", but it took me several years to aproach to that symphony, my favorite will always be the 7th.

man you pump out nice content

Very interesting stuff, you’ve persuaded me that I should try more score reading. On a slightly snide note, I would point out that you exhibit such an effective case of Blues Guitar Face that you look the same regardless of whether you’ve got a pick in your mouth or not.

Thank you David!!