Daemon's plans were always pretty straight forward but strategically sound. Instead of risking to get overpowered one after another by Vhagar, let's just hunt her down while we have the numbers advantage.
Or after you’ve knocked Aegon down and can get away to Daemon or dragon stone even to team up on Vhagar, not turn back to fight alone. The tv version is anti logic.
Not so anti logic. She had to die at the said war according to the original story, all 3 fell and vagar was the survivor. The show only goes further to show her resilience and gave her true and brave dragon riders death, than just dying from the initial fall with sunfyre badly wounded too
@@marceldiezasch6192attacking Vhagar in King's Landing is still risky tho. It was not shown in the show but Id assume Vhagar, despite her size, is parked in the dragon's pit like Balerion did. King's Landing is armed with Scorpions so ambushing Vhagar in there seems dangerous.
@@MichaelOglesby-ib1phit's not, rhaenys doesn't want to fight or be in a war, and in either outcome of fighting her, she gets to have the end of the war from her POV whether she kills vhagar or dies, the fight and war is over for her. She wanted peace deeply, has a deep sense of propriety to rhaenyra and viserys so she didn't wanna be involved in a bloody dragon war and now she won't be. There's a level of very human selfishness at play in that respect. PS: had rhaenys been able to perform the move where she threw vhagar to the ground over the open water there, it would have ended vhagar and aemond, that bitch has so much shit on her body to drag her down, I do actually think an argument could be made that maybe her hope was to have vhagar follow her over the water and do that same play again, but failed to pull it off.
@@Verezen Don't know which book you have read then coz Meleys and Rhaenys gave solid fight in the book I read and unlike TV show in the books it was 2 vs 1 fight.
@@winterlord55Yes but she knew she would lose and tried to go after Sunfyre, probably to take out the king with her, but Vhagar attacked and they all fell to the ground, and it’s written that while a Meleys was broken and ripped up, Vhagar rose unharmed
@@waltertheterrible6062ofc she knew she would lose a 2v1, and the only reason Vhagar got out unharmed was because she collapsed on Sunfire and Meleys while they were fighting, The show took everything good about the circumstances about that fight and tossed them out the window. Just average writers thinking they can outdo a master. And we’ve already seen the fiascos of Aegon’s coronation and Rhaenyra’s idiotic infiltration of Kings Landing
@@Flashstrike4 you know the book is a third person perspective person from Maester point of view and the show is the actual event of what happens there even GRR Martin confirmed it
@@blondymonk1535incorrect. While in freefall, even as Vhagar's claws opened up Caraxes's belly and used her teeth to tear off one of his wing-arms, Caraxes locked his teeth onto the larger dragon's throat and tore it out.
Targaryens during the dance: look at all our dragons. Big dragons, small dragons, fast dragons, strong dragons, old dragons, young dragons. Let's have them fight to the death, rumble and find which one is the best! Targaryens after the dance: man, i wonder where all our dragons went. Must be some sort of mysterious curse...
People forget that Daemon is a great commandaer with cunning strategies. He knew the only way to kill Vhagar is in open field. So he waited days for Aemond to show up at God's eye to get his eye blown out and Vhagar killed.
Daemon lived, he just decided to settle somewhere. I think the tv show hints to it as well. The last episode where he had a dream about a conversation between him and his brother. His brother held the crown to him and asked him if he still wished to rule. These dreams I think hint to the fact of what happened after the dragons fell to their death in the water. Daemon came to terms that it's pretty much a curse to wear the crown, so he decided to live quiet and happily somewhere off grid.
@@user-gx1wd9te8d She didn't "loose sight of Vhagar". Or we're talking about different moments of the battle. When Sunfyre fell to the ground Rhaenys could have just flown, at this moment there was not such a thing as "she lost sight of Vhagar", she turned back to attack Vhagar. Which was obviously stupid. Vhagar didn't take her by surprise, Rhaenys just flew towards her death on her own decision
@@Noah-dh6se no cos daemon in that scene wanted to attack kingslanding and take down vhagar but kingslanding has scorpions and caraxes + meleys is not guaranteed to kill vhagar (which could be possibly helped by sunfyre adn dreamfyre). it was a suicide mission on deamons part dictated by anger of the moment
She should have tactically retreated after that first engagement and come back with a backup dragon, that was very stupid, brave but naive of her to go at vagar multiple times!! and now we lost a beautiful red dragon!
I feel like there was something going on with Meleys. For some reason maybe she didn’t think she would make it. I’m not sure why but when Meleys looked at her I got a weird feeling that.
And let Rooks Rest be taken without any resistance? That would definitely not sit well with the bannermen of Rhaenyra, especially since they were already losing territory left and right....
Vermithor is second biggest dragon that time, still way smaller than Vhagar. There is only few dragons who have chance of defeading Vhagar 1V1 (Vermithor,Karax, Cannibal and dreamfire)
Rhaenys’s fatal mistake during that battle was losing track of vhagar and aemond. We saw that meleys can take on vhagar head on but the moment vhagar got a hold of meleys’s neck it was over. She was not getting out of that.
She did stand a chance. But just like with the other battle, vhagar used a blind spot that netted her the easy kill. It’s starting to seem like with as much experience as vhagar has, she really isn’t that good at dragon battle. It’s her size alone that’s winning her fights. Everything she’s killed has either been much smaller than her or didn’t see her coming. But when vhagar and meleys met in mid air, in open combat, meleys who is almost half the size of vhagar, matched vhagar blow for blow. One eye is lucky they didn’t meet one on one in the open air with no distractions.
They showed a size comparison when they were in the air, vhagars head and neck was bigger than meleys' entire body. One wing from vhagar was bigger than the other entire dragon, vhagar is massive.
The dragons are creatures, none of them are really good at fighting. If Sunfyre was bigger than Meleys, Meleys would have been absolutely handled. But he isn’t, so he’s obviously not gonna win. Size and brute strength is mostly what it comes down to when animals are fighting.
Vhagar operates like a great white shark, it has one move which is to deep dive and attack from the blind spot. Once she commits, she’s freakishly fast. In open air as we’ve seen against multiple dragons now she’s just large and slow. It’s why Daemon wanted Caraxes and Maelys to attack in unison. Two fast, battle hardened dragons distracting and wounding. But no one listens to the only Targaryen daring enough to follow it through.
During the fight that followed between them, Daemon jumped from Caraxes in mid air, and killed Aemond by stabbing him in the eye with Dark Sister. Both dragons crashed in mid air and fell to the lake, Vhagar drowned, Caraxes managed to swim ashore, and died sometime later, while the body of Daemon was never found.
@@ZionbornLegendofprophecy555 enemy was distracted?? Both vhagar nd mekeys fell on the ground And vhagar flew and went behind the castle While meleys was doing what? Eating soldiers or something? It was just stupid , so stupid that they couldn't even show it
Meleys died because, the story said likewise. Otherwise Meleys could have done serious damage on Vhagar. I still hate the fight between them on TV. It was so obvious that the Vhagar was hidden behind that castle.
Melys did do some pretty good damage on vhagar when clawing at her. I'm betting vhagar is still recovering from that when they go face daemon over the gods eye, or that ceraxes reopens the same wound during that fight. I'm so ready to see how that fight goes
If rheanys would've flew up into the sky she would've got away, she could've retreated and daemon and rhyanra could've killed vhagarall of them together. The war could've been done
Thinking the same thing. I'd think a dragon can carry atleast a miniature scorpion bolt bow that the rider can deploy So far all we saw were the riders being sitting ducks
Better yet stop taking her head on and go after her wings with dragon fire. Use your speed and maneuverability to your advantage. Size and weight is not a advantage in the air. Battle tactics in GOT and HOTD are crazy
What the fuck 😂 imagine trying to shoot a tiny person from 200 feet away with a goddamn crossbow bolt while riding on the back of a dragon 2,000 feet in the air. You’re hitting one shot in 500, and it’s bouncing straight off the rider’s armor or the dragon’s scales.
To everyone saying that she’s too big to sneak, the first time was in total cloud coverage. The second time she hid behind a giant cliff and a castle. She’s big, but big enough to hide. It’s obviously her favorite little trick, and since she’s nearly 200, she’s probably had a lot of practice.
It makes no sense. If the victim did not see her coming out of the clouds or from behind the castle, how was she be able to see them through clouds and castle walls? Wall hacks? How did she time it so well and react so fast while she was supposedly old and slow?
How she was flied behind gigant cliff bro, she was fallen anda how she can flied so quickly to go behind cliff , and how mylyis didnt saw her , when shahar fl yo oʻng behind the castle , and castle was little
What's more there are videos of Lions hiding in short grass and Crocodiles hiding in shallow ponds. Predators, specially ambush predators are masters of their craft. People are being way to critical about the writing, it's realistic.
You need a large and agile dragon, with previous battle experience, with an experienced rider, who can utilise good battle tactics and attack Vhagar skilfully Basically - Caraxes and Daemon
@@francescoparmitani6359 Meleys goes into close combat with Sunfyre and grabs his neck. Vhagar does not attack with fire, but engages into close combat aswell. All three crash in a flaming ball of fire and only Vhagar emerges from the smoke and ashes.
She did two things wrong: 1 she tightened herself to her dragon. 2 she didn’t take advantage of her dragons ability which was to fly faster and go higher. She didn’t have to target the dragon to win just the rider.
@@rattlertech Daemon is a sick man, he is not a legend. That is what is about the books: selfish crazy bastards like Daemon fighting for power and all life has no value for him
@@linddragonforce2660craxes swam back to shore and died there after some time while vhagar was sleeping in the lake with her rider strapped to her back
Daemon employed the best tactics a rider could pull off with Caraxes, and still both perished. Besides Caraxes, I can think maybe only Vermithor and Cannibal could take Vhagar in 1v1 and expect to live
Meleys was also badly wounded which affected her and yes, on the books it was believed that she stood a chance against Vhagar, she probably did had the circumstances changed.
Highly agree. She put herself in huge disadvantage by not flying in open area and not being caught from behind cover. Using red queen's speed would have won the fight
@@benbarberian1701Silverwing isn't a war dragon, she is the calmest and nicest dragon. Silverwing has never fought a battle, she isn't agressive or fierce, her size doesn't do much when compared to Meleys. Meleys is a bit battle experienced, she is the fastest dragon and has a much more experienced rider than Silverwing. Silverwing is literally an innocent middle aged woman, while Meleys is a karen with muscles and fast speed.
Meleys was probably gassed after wrecking sunfyre. Being slow and tired is what made her an easy target. It was like both meleys and rhaenys knew this and accepted death when they turned around instead of flying off and living to fight another day
Sunfyre was done dirty in that fight in the show, in the books he damages Meleys much more, and Meleys never goes after Vhagar twice likes she does in the show, Vhagar dive bombs both Sunfyre and Meleys and both crash but Meleys is ripped apart from the impact and Sunfyre just about survives although heavily damaged, they pulled the heroic martyr card on Meleys and Rhaneys on the show which wasn't the case in the books.
It’s not easy or even completely possible to kill Vhagar 1v1, which is why Daemon told Rhaenys they should team up and attack her. Caraxes managed to take her down but Daemon knew going 1v1 with Vhagar meant it was a suicide mission and he had to sacrifice himself and his dragon to achieve it . This could’ve been avoided if Rhaenys and Meleys was also there.
Got killed after she was already scorched and messed up……they said 1v1 she would have a CHANCE. Regardless if sunfire did not do much to her she still got caught in the first vhagar fire and when they both tangled in the sky…..also lets not forget vhager has the MOST battle experience of all the dragons still alive regardless of her rider not really much of a shocker that it happened the way it did. Rewatch the episode when melys looks back and she rhenys is all burnt up she knows she turns back to die.
Keep in mind in the books Meleys fought both sunfyre & Vhagar at the same time. It is confirmed by R.R. Martin that Meleys could’ve killed Vhagar if it wasn’t for sunfyre. Chris show wouldn’t even have a season 2 if Rhaenyra wasn’t such a fool & let Daemon have his way. He would’ve ended the greens bloodline in days.
Vhagar is an experienced ambush predator. She used the cover of the castle to take down Meleys. While the riders give some directions. It's the dragons themselves doing the bulk of the fighting and maneuvering.
To kill a dragon you have to attack the neck because it is the weakest spot... Maeleys wasnt attacking the neck because if she gets close enough from Vhagars neck she will die, probably if she had no choice she couldve tried to attack and run until Vhagar gets tired, knowing that Vhagar needs a lot of energy(eating sheep)
From a strategic point of view, the script wanted Meleys and Rhaenys to die in the stupidest way possible. Less than five minutes into the episode and it's over. A disgrace.
I think the key is to rip the membrane in her wings ,so with her large mass she cant fly ,and with a sneaky attack from above possibly try to blind her with the claws .Once done so ,she would be pretty good of no use...
In actual book. Vhagar attacked from the top and sinfyre from the other end on meleys . They both had to attack together to take down meleys. Which ended in meleys focussing on killing sunfyre and its rider as priority and sacrifice herself and rider to kill aegon. They all 3 fell together. The impacts shook nearby castles and killed anyone within 100 meters
I've always thought of Rhaenys as a capable strategist but in the show it's almost she was being careless and just run straight to an ambush. She is smarter than that.
Blood wyrm and meleys would absolutely overwhelm that "that old bitch" especially with 2 experienced riders but 1v1 it's nearly impossible for an outright win. But imagine the blood wyrm if it was 60-80 years older.... That much bigger. Now then id definitely take him
@@thetruthhurts2327Vermithor has a chance, but Caraxes beat Vhagar because his long neck allowed him to reach in and tear out Vhagar’s throat. Although t unfortunately Vhagar tore open his belly.
Vhagar is like an end of game player character who maxed stealth and speed to beat the game then did all the side quests with her elite gear to top off her strength and armor
@@SkidogMedia We've already seen his future rider *hint hint* . Just think of the few new characters we met that seem to (at the moment) serve no purpose
@@itsmerohi3760just dragon vs dragon, instinct only, Vermithor has his youth, agile, speed, Vhagar experience, size only a but bigger then. Vermithor could win with those "starts"
People keep getting upset by the sneak attacks, but the first kill in season 1 was done through massive storm clouds where the size makes no difference, you might get snuck up on by a fucking asteroid there and it's believable, even still in both cases it's not done for lore accuracy, it's done to keep the audience on edge, and they've learned that humans are ascribing similar levels of personification to dragons as they do pets and animals so watching them brawl for too long hurts. You have my word that when vhagar dies, we will cheer. Vhagar is the "mountain" of house of the dragon
Even with battle tactics there is no chance, firepower won't work and giving physical attack by getting near vhagar is dangerous, so it's an escape or die..💀
Ok Vhagar is stupid huge and battle tested, and the reigning Hide and Seek Champ of the Seven Kingdoms, but she’s popping out of nowhere like she ain’t flying heavy but teleporting.
Meleys was not only top 3 biggest dragons during the beginning of the first stage of the dance of the dragons but also it is consider to be the fastest which could have given her the edge against vhagar
The only dragons in a one on one battle who could possibly take on Vagar are Caraxes, with Daemon , Vermithor, no experienced rider but that dragon will play a part with the rider in next season and the Cannibal who is a wild dragon with no rider .
I love how the narrative focuses on Vhagars size yet so far it is the only dragon who kills with fast surprises which you would normally attribute to smaller dragons. Vhagar knows ball 🗿
Impressionante como um dragão velho e pesado tem uma queda livre até o chão e não machuca uma perna ou quadril, e ainda consegue sempre surpreender com velocidade de baixo pra cima, logo Vhagar sendo uma monstruosidade em peso e tamanho voando.
To all the people how are asking how could Vagar execute sneak attacks with perfection. Think about Vagar like a Bengal tiger in a tropical forest. His prey is a deer. Its smaller but has greater stamina and top speed. One thing tiger is better at is accelerating to its maximum speed. Tiger will wait in the cover patiently for the deer to enter a certain radius and then snap at deer. Deer will try to evade. Tiger has less than 10 seconds before it could catch deer. After 10 seconds Tiger will gas out and deer will only be running faster. The probability of success is realistic for tiger since it has been able to survive as a species using that tactic.
It’s ironic how reptilians keep growing to incredible sizes even after they have aged tremendously, which makes it difficult for their younger counterparts to compete. Even though this is a fictional TV series, it perfectly depicts that character of the dragons as reptilians.
Vhagar was one of the three dragons used during the invasion of westeros by Aegon the conqueror, with Balerion and Meraxes at her sides. She may be old, but you won't kill one of the three without losing your life.
They likely wanted a more exciting sequence, especially with regards to the tension between Aegon II and Aemond, but I think they should've stuck closer to the book's version of events for this sequence. In F&B, Vhagar and Sunfyre launched the Rook's Rest ambush together, since they were counting on more than one Black dragon to show up. Sunfyre and Meleys got tangled up, with Meleys winning, then Vhagar bore down on them from above and crushed Meleys into the ground. Vhagar was unharmed, Sunfyre and Aegon II were seriously wounded, while Meleys and Rhaenys were toast. Vhagar, as the biggest dragon alive and the second biggest in the history of the continent, using her weight to cripple faster dragons makes sense. Writing her into a repeat castle-sized stealth bomber has already worn thin.
The ambush that Killed Meleys doesn’t make sense, not because of Rhaenys misplaying the fight, but because the physics of a dragon of Vhagar’s size sharking her from behind a castle at sea level defies physics. A dragon that is literally the size of a given castle, cannot be hidden from view by it while in flight. Basically show rewrote the sequence to make it dramatic for TV. Meleys fully would have beaten Vhagar 1v1, the problem was that in the books Aegon & Aemond attacked Rhaenys together. Basically picture when Meleys clashed with Sunfyre and had his neck in her mouth, instead of Vhagar spitting fire and breaking them up, she crashed into both of them and all three plummeted to the ground with Vhagar & Aemond being the only ones that got up.
