It was actually thanks to that in this very video that made me realize I was going wayyy too wide on my pulldowns… I misunderstand “wide” and “narrow” grip a lot…
Same. I liked them anyway, but with the recent research surrounding the importance of the biiiiiig stretchhhhhh for hypertrophy (and the fact that PG pulldowns are great for that) I have more of a reason.
This is exactly the content I like from RP. I'd like to see this for a few others as well: Foot position for squats; Vertical and horizontal pressing; Lateral raise/side delt work. In regards to the side delt stuff, I'd like to see the difference between supination/pronation + along with "bar path"(by this I mean the path your hands go with the cables or dumbbells. I don't know the proper terminology) Great stuff!
I've always wanted a video about how limb and torso length ratios feed into squat and hinge patterns/leverages. My brain could never conceptualize femur, torso, and shin lengths at the same time... For example, what ratios are ideal for a conventional vs sumo deadlift, or what ratios suck for a front squat?
RU-vid promoted to me one of this channel's side delt vids earlier today. It's in the channel's 'Targeting The Muscle' playlist along with a load of other good stuff
Totally transformed my mindset on pulldowns. I was always told that wide grip/ flared elbows hits the lats more (I should add I haven’t been weight training for long). My last few sessions I’ve been hitting lats and getting virtually no stimulus (vs my first session were I felt my lats like crazy). Gonna switch to narrow grip/tucked elbows at my next session, can’t wait to try it! Update: it’s amazing.
Absolutely true, the ideal grip for work more dedicated to the dorsal muscles should be with hands placed slightly more than shoulder width apart and keeping elbows at the sides both when pulling and when descending. I do it more like calisthenics by pushing the bar up to the lower part of the chest with a rather slow eccentric and without losing the alignment of the body. PS: there is a big difference between the neutral and prone grip, but the neutral one preserves the elbows and the possible resulting inflammation much better.
Flared out elbows on pulldowns will always bias Teres Major on a greater degree, no matter the grip width. To especialize on lats, you need to tuck your elbows in, move up the bar to a maximum 120° of shoulder flexion, then down back to you torso side, a neutral or underhand grip is better for this Edit: also, dont arch your back, get it flat with a slight incline so its more comfortable for the bar path
If you do one or the other exercises, do a couple of repetition slowly with the correct pull, stretch i'm sure you will be able to feel which muscle group/where on the body it hits.
Wow the in-depth explanation of different hand positions, and where your elbows are pulling the weight was amazing. I often get “lost in the sauce” of where EXACTLY I want my arms, hands, and elbows should be positioned. This answered probably all of my questions with placement for any vertical lat pulls I’ll do from here on, thank you Dr Mike!
Great to see this - one year into training, and loving it. Just started focussing on my back and chest, and like so many others, I had the impression wide grip was the best. Tried narrow grip and finally felt some activation in the back. Now, seeing this, I'm encouraged to persist with this for now. Thanks a bunch, Dr Mike - always always always top tier content
I have always found narrow underhand grip worked the lats more in pulldowns and rows, because it forces your elbows close to your sides, in fact it is impossible to hold your elbows outwards away from the body with that grip. Wide grip high rows to chest and lat pulldowns always seemed to hit my rhomboids, rear delts, traps more. For the past 4 months I have been experimenting with using a dual arm pulley machine and pulling the right pulley with my left hand and left pulley with my right hand. You only have to make sure one hand is slightly lower than the other so the handles/carabiners/rubber balls dont hook up on each other as they pass, but the stretch and the contraction is INSANE. These have been my best back workouts of my life, and I am in my mid 60s and started training in the 1970s.I sit on a bench and set the pulleys high and do both high crossing pulldowns and high crossing rows.....and also set the pulleys near the floor and do seated crossing low rows with them. My back muscles are all sore for days after, but the best part is ....during the actual exercise, the stretch , contraction and pump and burn in each muscle is INSANE. I dont know why I didnt figure this out before. I had thought of doing them one arm at a time, but then what I notice is people tend to rotate the upper torso towards and way from the pulley as they pull, by using both arms at the same time it forces your spine to stay straight facing forwards and as the arms cross the centerline of your body and your biceps start to touch your chest, neck or face (depending on it if is a high mid or low row/pulldown), you really feel the muscle through a much greater range of motion. I can never go back to barbell rows or bar lat pulldowns ever again.
1. Overhand Grip (Pronated): • Suitability for High Rows: In high rows, such as the upright row or a high cable row, an overhand grip is typically more natural and effective. This grip helps to target the upper back muscles like the trapezius and the rear deltoids more effectively. The overhand grip positions the elbows out and away from the torso, which aligns the muscle fibers of these upper back muscles optimally for activation during the rowing movement. • Engagement: This grip tends to involve the rhomboids and the outer portions of the lats to a lesser extent, focusing more on the upper traps and rear deltoids. 2. Underhand Grip (Supinated): • Suitability for Low Rows: An underhand grip is often recommended for rows targeting the lower lats, such as seated rows or bent-over rows with a focus on pulling towards the hips or lower abdomen. The underhand grip allows for a greater range of motion and a more natural arm position when targeting the lower lats. • Engagement: This grip tends to activate the biceps more effectively, which can be beneficial as it allows for a stronger pull and greater focus on the lower part of the latissimus dorsi. The elbows stay closer to the body, which enhances the recruitment of the lower lats.
I am very new to training within 6 months of doing it on my own with just a few buddies inn the gym, 10 years through my journey of eating healthy and eating like a regular joe, I managed to loose 60 pounds, from 240 to 180. Now I'm doing my best in the gym with my abilities, referring to back training and listening to this I have to say my favorite stimulus has to be underhand/overhand assisted pull-ups, I can't do regular ones yet but it's the exercise that targets those muscles that feels the best for me, and maybe that'll help someone new to their journey as well
One thing I have to constantly remind myself of, especially for back, is pulling through the elbows. When I think of my hands/ forearms as just a mechanical link between the weight and my back muscles I get a crazy mind muscle connection. More insights like this for other muscle groups would be greatly appreciated.
So, as someone who recently changed his training modality, I noticed that following the advice from previous videos works the best. So that means instead of getting hung up on the elbows must be in X position, I started playing with my positioning on all of my back and chest work to see where I feel the best pull in the muscle. This has been a real boon for me because for years I was putting my elbows in the 'correct' position, but always had trouble with certain muscle groups. Now, I have a much better mind/muscle connection from doing some experimentation and I can safely say I have started hitting the muscles like never before in my life.
I alternate close grip pulldowns for more Lat focus vs. Wide Grip Band assisted Pull Ups for Upper. Same for Row. Alternate Close Grip Cable Row vs. Wide Grip Barbell row. It works 😉 and when I fell super fancy, i throw in single arm Dumbell Rows to the hip! BÄM
I have, like a naturally flat back for some reason and I can say that back training completely sucks for me I feel almost no connection with my back muscles (like I couldn’t even figure out how to flex my lats) but have great connection with others so I know what I’m missing out on… I am getting growth and *some* connection finally after watching Dr. Mike here as well as some others in the space so thank you kindly RP!
Really glad I caught this video. I have always loved neutral grip pullups but kind of looked at them as more of a Tricep exercise than anything. This is super helpful to know.
Great tips on hand positions. For me learning to pull from elbows on lats helped a lot too. I do both over and underhand grip. Also doing that helped to not over fatigue my bicept and going way lighter15-20 reps helped me connect to the muscle better.
I gave up on wide-grip vertical pulls several years ago. It just didn't 'feel right'. I eventually realized that it was the stretch that was missing. I now confine myself to narrow-grip pulls on both vertical and (using one-arm cable) horizontal (actually coming from a bit of an upper angle but almost horizontal). My lats have done very well on this.
Neutral and medium grip pulldowns make me feel so good. I do 2 row: Single arm neutral grip to hips for more lat focused, Overhand wide grip to chest for upper back focused.
Thank you so much for this video! It'll help my husband a lot because he says his back and lats aren't growing while mine are so this video is a great one for him to watch.
Discovered this recently and it is a game changer in my rows and pull ups! I love training back so much because the smallest tweaks change the part of the back you target!
i always done wide grip pulldowns bc everyone told me its the best lower lat movement, but after trying close grip pulldowns and lat pullover its a game changer
I would agree with almost everything on the video except...the underhand grip for vertical lat pulls should create a better stimulus for muscle growth. The lat is responsible partly for internal rotation of the shoulder. Thus having the supinated underhand grip on the bar puts the shoulder into a more externally rotated position which allows for better stretch and growth.
Man I love spending my time watching Dr Mike for the entirety of the video where the conclusion is - Do whatever suits you. This makes body building so much simpler.
Used to overhand grip for everything because everyone was recommending them and using them, gains were alright but something was off, but lately I have been trying mostly neutral grip and it has completely changed my back training, gains are great and everything just feels right. I feel like trying different modalities and modifying some things is really important and it might just be the missing piece in your training.
Always struggled to get a good back pump. I realized it was because I treated back as a single muscle group and not upper back, lats and rear delts. Add in the new knowledge of slower controlled eccentric with lengthened muscle stretch had made a big difference. Thanks Dr. Mike!
Hi Dr. Mike, I don't think you'll see this, but I thought I would ask anyway. I had open heart surgery when I was born, and I am now 22. I've never been allowed to play contact sports and up until I was 18, I was recommended by doctors to not lift more than 20 pounds. So I never lifted in high school or got in the habit of regularly lifting/learning proper form. Now that I'm older and my heart is in ok shape, they raised my max to 40 pounds. I've worked with multiple trainers and friends to help me out with advice in the gym. But even with consistency, I do not see much progress. I do a back and Bicep day, a chest and triceps day, and a leg day. I usually do most workouts with two 20-pound dumbbells (my recommended max) and do movements very slowly to maximize time under strain. I do 10-20 reps depending on fatigue and then move to lower weight around 10-pound dumbbells and do the same exercise and reps before rest. Usually 4 sets of 3-4 exercises, then rotate to the next 3-4 exercises. The problem is I don't get very fatigued or sore from certain exercises now, but I cannot increase weight for progressive overload. For example using the lat pulldown machine I am at a point where at 40 pounds I do 40-50 reps in one set with a gym buddy watching my form, and repeat 3 other times while rotating to other exercises, and I don't get fatigued or feel like it's doing much. Recently I've been focusing more on 4-5 days a week of cardio and or biking/hiking along with implementing body weight exercises, but in terms of lifting feel stuck due to my recommended medical weight limit. When I was 18-19 I used to bench a lot more than 40, as the bar itself added to the weight, but had to stop due to doctors scolding. I understand if not, but do you have any advice?
Great video Mike! Was wondering if you could make a video covering the various recovery modalities aside from sleep and nutrition, i.e. post workout stretching (static vs dynamic), cooldown periods, ice baths, sauna, etc. Thanks as always
the revolutionary exercise for me was the seated row machine with neutral grip and focusing on doing the deepest range of motion possible by rounding over the pad that supports the chest and arching the back at the maximum contraction.
i was experimenting with my elbow position on my pull-ups today. I also found my elbows a little closer in, gave me better Lat activation. Great video, Dr Mike!
Doctor Mike thank you for this video. I tried doing wide grip elbows out for my barbell rows and even my warm up set got me feeling my "mid back". Great advice, cheers big ears!
@@Official_Kirbsyou'll never use normal straps again, your forearm becomes part of weight and you can just pull with your elbows, they lock the grip really well
@@Official_Kirbslike you just got 3inches more of dick length, AMAZING! I believe I’m using them right and the strap acts like a thumb which lets you do back like a fucking machine.
@@Official_Kirbs I second the comment above. I found it made pull-ups easier because it took the mental attention and tiredness off my grip and forearms and I could focus on the muscles that matter. Hit those more and less random stuff to worry about
@@Official_Kirbs It completely burns you out in a good way. I use the strap as a thumb replacement and let’s me keep my arms as straight as possible to only focus on back. Super dope!
Great video Mike! I prefer overhand or underhand for vertical pulls, and neutral grip for rowing. It is more about wrist position and shoulder angle for me.
Great video! I have been working on bringing out the lats more for my first show. I have found that neutral grip pulling is what I am connecting with the most right now, horizontal and vertical pulling.
