I can confirm here in Minnesota it's just fine. My Dad has a Saab car, which are no longer made. He needed a part for it, so had one 3D printed in PLA that was then painted black. It's been on there for years and still looks as perfect and new as the day we put it on.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, this is exactly the comment I was looking for. Im printing some non-structural parts for my motorcycle and was wondering if they would last. 💪🏽💪🏽
@@heartminer5487 Yes, and the secondary problem isn't the melting point, it is the glass transition temp, which when you approach, for a part under stress, it will start to DEFORM. That's the larger problem with PLA and why no automotive manufacturer would ever use it for automotive parts, despite being able to paint them or add some protective coating for the UV issue. A painted PLA part under stress wouldn't make it one day in the Arizona sun.
@@brianmi40 Hi, do you have experience with resin type parts under stress? (3D printer in SLA technology). The effect you are describing is tension relaxation and it is common for all thermoplastic polymers... PLA/PET/ABS etc. But what about parts under stress printed in SLA technology? Do you have any information about it? The effect is the same?
A few years ago, I wanted to make a weather station. Yes, I am an electronics geek. I designed a stevenson screen for it, but people told me it would not hold up. I printed a test part in white pla and painted it with white exterior paint. It has been out in Oklahoma for 2 summers and 2 winters. Except for being a little dirty, it looks and feels like it did.
I can confirm in the SW desert PLA will definitely melt. Especially based on color and thickness. I'd say you're 100% correct in that it's all about surface temp, and there's just so many factors to go off of, but black will melt.
Sure. I think the biggest finding I had is that surface temp matters, and shade really affects temps drastically (and grass! That surprised me how much cooler grass was). I do wonder if it’s white PLA with thick walls in shade on grass if it’d survive there. I also want to revisit this with PLA plus, and also see if coatings (primer) matter. In the end it was a fun experiment to understand deeper about why it happens!
In Phoenix Arizona we can regularly get to 120 degrees with very intense UV rays. Inside a car it can get hotter at almost 210 degrees. PLA might not melt at those temps but it will certainly get soft and warp or de-laminate if left out in the sun long enough. In a car it certainly will. I know this from experience. ASA is the only filament I use now for outdoor prints as it will hold up to the heat and the UV rays, where PLA and ABS become "bleached" and turn yellow by the sun here... if you are talking surface temps, you can fry an egg on our sidewalks in the summer so there is that...
Right. I tried to cover the car scenario in the video and explain air temp vs. surface temp for that reason, to bring awareness. 120 air temp alone shouldn't be the factor that melts it, it's the absorption (based on color), density (based on infill), and surface temps that matter, and there are variances even in PLA. Placing PLA on grass is going to be much different than placing it on concrete. The car scenario is entirely different because air temps alone can get into the range where it'll affect the print due to it acting essentially as an oven. The thing I'm trying to understand is if it's 120 air temp in Arizona, what is the concrete temp, vs. the grass temp for surface temperature. If the grass is not much hotter than 120, I'd expect the print to be fine and not warp. And if it does...that's what I'd like to understand. A recent comment said that it's not the glass transition, but HDT. HDT temp ranges are MUCH lower, and that may explain why I see reports of much lower temperatures affecting prints. The UV angle you bring up is critical...and something I didn't cover well enough. There's a video from austrailia that did a great job of showing that and it really showed that even if the temp and rain doesn't kill it, UV alone can. I'd love the community to lock that info down so it's understood. That all being said, if you're in Arizona, I would just not use PLA for outdoor prints :) Thankyou good comment and good info. I kind of wish I lived in a warmer climate sometimes to get some better test data
Thanks! I need to print some new stuff out for this summer in different colors/infills to see how they react. I think there's going to be alot of learnings here as we all gather data and hopefully get to the bottom of what the best solutions are. I suspect PLA+ will be a happy medium of keeping simplicity down but getitng resiliency (unless someone has PETG dialed in)
I just think there's so little difference in cost to use PETG that you just don't even consider PLA for outside. I have PETG for a window actuator part in my son's car, and in Florida sun it's still good after 2 years. Your prints aren't also parts under stress, which completely changes everything. PLA deforms readily under stress and heat which is why they should never be used in a car.
@@brianmi40 absolutely. When this video was made PLA+ wasn’t really a thing yet, and petg was about 30% more. But really what I wanted to do was understand what was it that was causing something that took 185 degrees F or so to warp in 105F degree heat? It taught me about the importance and difference in air temps, how colors and infill affect it, etc. Nowadays petg is so close in price and availability it definitely makes sense to go that way. But I think regardless the lessons of heat are important. I’d also argue UV may be as important if not more in some ways for items that are just decorative. For anything like a plant holder or holding weight, absolutely PetG is the way to go unless you’re looking at something even more sturdy like I believe ASA and Carbon fiber can be
Also from washington, this was super informative! I'm gonna put some benchy's outside, 1 PLA and 1 PETG, see how they do. Also, man i remember that hot ass day lol
Hey neighbor! I’m hoping to retry this year with a PLA+ and different colors and infills. Though I kinda hope w done get quite that hot and have a nice summer!
It depends on the color. I printed SR71 for RC and when it was white it was fine. When it was black, it melted while flying. Turned into a wet noodle. I've since painted it Solver to reflect UV. I've investigated UV blocking paint, but never got to it to see if it would work to again try a black SR71.
For sure! There’s so many factors. Infill I believe also affects it but …wait….you printed a frieking blackbird and flew it?!?!?!? That’s AMAZINGLY cool!!!!!!
Cool what speed do u print at? I see u print 5% infill and they look good I have been doing 10% and was wondering if I should try 5% also have been printing at 50% speed and getting rele good consistant prints but was wondering if I should be printing at higher speed
Yes! I’m still learning here but I’m seeing that technique being applied to a number of them now. UV wrecks the color at a minimum so UV protecting them appears to help. I need to do more experiments but been busy with a move so I have to set up all the gadgets again!
So sadly there’s something worse than UV…kids. They’re both destroyed and outside had nothing to do with it. Protip: don’t make an adorable fairy and let your three year old put it down a slide
Ah interesting! From here www.creativemechanisms.com/blog/learn-about-polylactic-acid-pla-prototypes that could be as low as 49c/122f which over time and places on a certain surface would cause it to warp. This experiment is so hard because I’ve had people message and email me all sorts of variable results based on infill, humidity, color, brand and more. I had to move so I didn’t get to see if mine would last through the year, and the Tinkerbell which was my main test was destroyed by a different natural force…a toddler.
Joe this is the video i was looking for thank you. I live in PA an go to the jersey shore my parents have a house there anyway i have a question i am making pole holders for his retractable awning so when the wind is strong the awning doesnt bounce. I made the holders out of pla white last year and the bottom holders are still going strong they are out in the sun in the all year and and i just checked them last week and they are still great the other to holders the top ones are up under the awning away from the sun they are in the shade will they be ok our weather here goes up to 90s it the summer and winters are cold and fall and spring 50s and 60s but the humidity sucks in the summer but so far so good the top 2 holders under the awning snapped off when the wind kicked up but that was also because the design was terrible hopfully you can answer my question thanks
Hey Geo I'm not sure I caught the question, but I can say this...this experiment calls out that these are done under no load scenarios for things like garden decorations. I would go with PETG or something else for things underload, and then paint/spray them with something to UV protect them. This video was just for decorations, not loads. That's a whole different beast because if you get to the temps that would soften it, you're going to have problems.
Apples and oranges, but me being in AZ, I put big coins/badges in pla and resin prints outside, and they all started to warp or curl after a couple hours.
So the questions I'm curious about are: 1) What is the thickness of the prints? 2) What infill? 3) What color? 4) Does it still warp if you set it on grass? Are you setting it on something that retains heat? From what I'm seeing, and tried to show in this video is all of these matter. But the tough thing for me is what you get daily for temps to do the experiments/experience it I only get like once a year :) Resin is interesting, I don't know anything about resin temps or heat resistance, but I was hoping it was going to perform much better than FDM filaments. What I'd like to ideally get to is a 'these are the guidelines for a print to stand a chance' for things like infill/thickness/design as well as just knowing 'ok even on grass in 120F this thing will/won't be destroyed in 6 months'.
@@geektoolkit Sorry for the late reply, for pla, small one was 3.15mm thick by 25mm diameter, biggest being 8mm thick by 110mm diameter. For resin 3mm thick by 50mm diameter. All 100% infill, overture metallic green/black for the pla and clear for the resin. I set them on wood with the plan of checking them in 30 minutes in direct sunlight, 2-3 hours later i finally remembered and they were all warped. Enough for me to call them un-useable since they were planned for mold making/metal casting. Hope this helps.
@@wantafastz28 Thanks for the reply and data! That should help others that are considering this and give them a different viewpoint to consider. I wish there was a more definitive way to know what's 'safe' and what isn't. I have to wait till summer comes around again, but next time I'll try thin prints, differnet infills, different colors and see if I can get a better matrix. Also I'll keep note of brands and print settings..I know some silks I have print at much lower temps, so maybe there's something there
I left a print outside while spraypaint dried and it started to warp. It was only 70 f outside but it got direct sun for 20 minutes and i guess that was enough. It was low infill though so that may have something to do with it.
You never talk or mention something important here...the surface temperature of the object after been under the sun for long period of time.. For example if here in florida te temp outside reads 100..dosnt mean thats is ok for pla..cause that pla object surface are going to be taking the sun heat direct.so means that that surface are going to be more hot than the 100 temp after been exposure for 1 hour..and more and more hot after 2 hours.etc.. So my point is that dosnt matter if the temperature outside is 100 for that day dosnt mean that the pla object surface sre going to be at 100 temp...cause the sun are hitting it making it more hot with the time exposed making the object to bend or deform..thats why we always said tha PLA and Sun dont mix
I believe I cover that about about 5:43 talking about the surface temperature of the brick that it's on, and demonstrating that air temp is not equal to surface temp. I didn't speak ot it, but the surface temps of the models after several hours never got close to the surface temp of the brick (which would make sense as the brick is an excellent heat insulator). But this is a great comment because it's exactly the point of my video...to show that air temp isn't the only thing to consider, and to talk about all of the factors that go into pla in the heat. I also wanted to share my experience with it. If others have experience hopefully they'll share it in the same way with measurements and as a community we'll get a better guidance. For me hearing 'don't put PLA outside' didn't make sense, and from my tests where I"m at, it seems like it's fine. I'll do an update in a year though because I think it's important data for the community to have.
Hmm. I suppose it matters if your garage has cooling and how insulated it is. Mine is similar to the shade measurements so things have been safe there.
I can confirm from experience, depending on how hot it is outside and how ventilated your garage is, PLA will get soft and warp. My friend left a lantern I printed as a going away in their garage while the movers packed the rest of the house. He went back into the garage and it was warped a solid 30 degrees. As he mentioned though, the structure will also affect it. The portions that warped were the load bearing corners of the lantern (if you can picture a lantern and the parts that would typically hold the glass panels). Not to mention it was all black, one of the most heat absorbing colors.
One Gnome is still going strong, but he's currently in shade. The other designs didn't outlast my daughter playing with them in the yard, or a move that I had to do, so I lost the data. I'm going to retry doing this hopefully for this summer. The comments section is full of good info on this video however of peoples experiences...it seems that infill and color is important. Also, pla+ is available for a much more reasonable amount now and may be a good balance.
I think you should be fine putting a decorative, non-load bearing print outside, as long as it's in shade, and something that typically don't get that hot (like grass) as it wouldn't be just the air temperature, or the surface temperature of the material the print is standing on, however how hot the print itself also gets, due to the sun, etc. as the sun is the same (main) culprit to the surface temperature issue, the print would become just as hot as the cement brick you put them on.
I agree with the first part, I’ll have to test the second part. I think there is a heat conductance difference between brick, PLA, and grass. I don’t know if the PLA absorbs as much as the brick and therefore wouldn’t be as hot, but I’ll test that as it’s a great point and if that’s the case it flips some of this on it’s head. That being said at 109F outside on a 140F brick I really was impressed how well this all held up!!! Thanks that’s a thought provoking comment, now I’m off with my laser thermometer to go test more!
@@geektoolkit when you mention the melting point of pla 185 to 220..thats melting point to turn it from solid to liquid..deforming point is much much less than 185 buddy
@@rodsants8972 I show that and talk about it at 1:48 when I talk about glass transition temperature (the proper name for 'deforming point'. I also mention how that is 140F and still way beyond air temperature, and then go into surface temps.
how you can make 15 second video to all the way 11 minutes, I just want to see the before after under the sun. Dont have time to watch whole video. And yes, I have time to write this.
