I have some additional discussion on this topic on the 2nd channel, check it out if you want to see some more rambles this one is on wellstring: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IaYtoq3Jilo.html
Good video but 1 thing that id like to add is that C-Rank, B-Rank and A-Rank, etc. dont really have a “true” meta, becaushe yesherkrtrdzszh, jusht like u said the strategiesh in there just devolve into and consishtrekrtrdzszh of people face-running head-1• onto the objective without a care in the world or almost, but the thing is can it really be called a meta if their skill isnt even comparable to a Top 5% player, at low-ranks i call it jusht “fake-meta” because whatever worksh there, clearly only works there and startsh getting crappier and crappier the more or less u move up. Think about AIs and how they play and learn about the gamesh, 1• they start using smth bad, then they develop a counter to whatevers countering them by either switching weaponsh, kitsh, gearsh, playshtryleszhdgjklhgfdzszh, etc., or jusht playing a whole lot better, but then new optionsh that counter those arise up that also kind of counter the 1• onesh, and so they pick a new optimal 1. Im sorry for making it very long lol but for example look at the AI in Melee video, they constantly counterpicked each other until both eventyually ended up on Fox lol and played perfectly until the video-maker had to step in and introduce some RNG as a handicap to both. Now obviously the main difference here is that in Melee they were both top-level, but again thatsh not to say that the “most-effective tactic available” in C-Rank isnt to just play Pencil (although tbh Pencil is probably the best weapon in SoloQ rn lol and itsh not like it cant slay, i mean itsh still a long-range charger in a game chock-full of bad maps lol) jusht that Fox, a top-tier character would still destroy in a low-skill environment when used by a top-player even if it might not be AS GOOD at stomping noobs like your typical “noob-stomper” would. TL,DR:; A Top-Tier might work less better at low-levels when used by pros, but itsh still gonna be good at doing so, even if not as good as much at doing so than smth like, Flingza i guess (which is my main so ik i can carry games with it at low-ranks with jusht a little bit of SCU lol [Im X Rank btw]) and as such i tend to call the metash in low-ranks “fake”-metash.
And also 1 last thing is that the 3x Sloshing Machine wasnt really meta, you only THOUGHT it wash meta, aka like ive said beforeshzkghjklkrtrdrrtrrerrtrrdrrtrrdzszh it wash only a fake-meta until u figured out Crab wash op lol.
Fr, as Chara kinda said at the beginning, that acronym doesn’t really capture the meaning of the word. “Meta” (as it apply to games) is what tactics players of the game are choosing to use which, sure tends to be the most effect ones, but thats not technically the same thing. Thats not even mentioning the use of the word outside of gaming, which came first and is both a prefix and an adjective describing something that is self-referential. i know i sound like a MASIVE nerd but this really bothers me. All if my friends were convinced that the backronym was the correct one and had never heard the word being used outside of gaming- actually not even outside video games, at all.
@@winter945 Actually, that's the reverse of it. Meta refers to going *out* a layer, not *in* a layer. The meta-game therefore, going out a layer, is the game of choosing what strategies or tactics one uses in the game itself.
@@Quargos I believe it is "the game within the game" because you have to first learn how to play the game, and then learn the metagame. Though you would have to ask the magic the gathering players who first coined the term about it
The roller example is really why this current “meta” is pretty healthy. There’s a lot of weapons with excellent potential that just need a better circumstance and/ or one guy to show it some love. As much as we complain about splatoon devs’ odd choices there’s a lot to appreciate about the game’s balance.
Something you touch on briefly that I think is a very important part of the equation is that the devs really can't know what will or won't be good. They can do their own playtests, sure, but that is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of experimentation the playerbase will do when they get their hands on the game. I remember a League of Legends developer saying that the amount of data they get on game balance from the two weeks of trying things out in test servers (which players can join to try things out and give them feedback) gets eclipsed by data from the live servers in LESS THAN AN HOUR.
I love this breakout of "meta". Its very common for people just think "oh this is broken lets nerf it," without considering how said weapon / character plays in different skill levels / compositions.
The meta being extremely different at different levels of play is something that’s just really fascinating to me, not gonna lie. I dunno why, it just is. This is genuinely one of my favourite videos you’ve made, it’s so nice to have a really good video on this topic! It’s something I’ve always wanted to hear more discussion about as a whole
To be fair, that is a really popular backronym. He probably just heard it a lot and didn't realize it was just made up one bc people really really really like making backronyms lol
I really enjoyed this video. I forget that the meta is so drastically different throughout the skill levels of the game and it really makes you think about things that stick to the lower level players that the top level tries to make best fit for them. Some weapons like short range shooters are destined for almost all levels but how they're used changes up as you rise up in skill. Sometimes even the weapon itself changes role wise depending on how comps need to be ran. Example Splattershot being originally used to be more frontline heavy but now plays a bit more supportive to supply paint and use more zookas per game.
I think this might be one of my favorite videos you’ve ever made! It hits the same itch that the map problems video did, and I think you showcase things that players from all levels can benefit from, which isn’t easy to do. Thanks for you and your team’s hard work :)
I love seeing discussion videos like this from Chara, it's always really interesting to hear his thoughts on things like this. (And the presentation is always amazing too)
I started watching your channel as a casual turf player who only tried ranked a few times in 2. I lost every match, never tried again and felt too intimidated to try ranked in 3. but then I watched one of your older vids of you smurfing in c rank in 2 and watching you basically showcase what you explain about c rank meta helped give me the confidence to try it out for myself again. And then I fell in love with the game after having a less involved casual interest in it 😊
Speaking of meta; I really love challenges, where only one type of weapon is allowed. It creates a situation where I think about countering what others could choose. Like during the beakon-only challenge, I chose custom dualie squelchers bc I found that they outrange and outpaint most other beakon weapons. With no bombs available, kiting was even more useful which CDS is great at. Super Chump also paired nicely with it as it painted and shielded me and allies, making for a really aggressive weapon in this beakon-only meta. Basically, while I find CDS underwhelming usually, it was a monster in this challenge. I just love those challenges haha
04:46 Oh man, I remember this lmao. It's funny when you go back to the first splatoon 3 tournament - that playstyle was still stuck in everyone's heads.
Meta discussion is honestly so interesting to me, just seeing the game evolve is so cool. Watching it go from crab meta and spamming burst to slightly better special spam of cooler. Cannot wait to see where it goes after midline meta.
The Roller player is also a prime example of "in the right hands" as it shows that while some combinations will always seem to be the best, it is taking a weapon, building your playstyle around its core strenghts and showcase the overlooked potential. That's why there is never such a case like a "set" meta. The key to a strong combination is building. Building yourself with the weapon, building your team-play and building around the situation.
Hey chara I wrote a letter to Nintendo to be able to cash in your drink tickets for chunks and they wrote back saying that I sent it to the wrong department of Nintendo and that they would send it to the right department
I think that this was a perfect video. I don't really know how if I can explain it well but the video touches on so many different aspects from game design, to vision to how players develop strategies in not just a very digestable way for viewers, but that could have actually applied to any game. The examples were focused around splatoon but it could have represented anything. I don't know what to say, its just a extremely well made video that properly explains things and I thought it was every entertaining. :)
The original definition I heard of a Metagame is the use of knowledge from outside the game. For a trading card game example, the game is I have to build a deck and I have no idea what my opponent could be playing. However that isn't necessarily the case, I can get an idea of what I would face against from experience or knowledge of the strength of a deck. I can then use that knowledge when constructing my deck, and the use of that knowledge is the metagame. It then slowly morphed into succinctly into "what is the best strategy"
The way I see meta, as a player who’s looked into other games, other weapons, and just other ideas (before retiring from Splatoon), META is pretty personal too. It’s not just the community making the changes and development, but as you’ve said, the player. They could pick something completely different because of potential. Any weapon can be good, they just need the right person to see the potential and take it up there!
At 1:20 with tower control that still happens in my games in S rank on both teams, but it’ll be a charger or a weapon with kraken or bubble on tower instead.
The best way to describe a "metagame" I've ever heard is that it's a game within the game. At a base level you have Splatoon 3 the video game on Nintendo switch, you turn it on and you play, you use the weapons avaliable on weapon select, play how you want to play as a player, ect. The "meta" game is the game players are playing WITHIN that game, you have splatoon 3, but within Splatoon 3 we are playing for example Crab meta, when you play in competitive you are playing the game everyone else has in their mind that we're all attuned with, you are all playing in accordance to the weapons strategies the maps everyone else is, depending on the environment (the meta) It results in us playing the game in a different way and on a different level than the "standard" way to play, that level IS the metagame, our own game we play with each other within the game
I was chatting with some splatoon buddies and we thought that good weapon design is if the weapon became meta, it wouldn’t become unhealthy and could be played in multiple play styles. If octobrush became meta (which I think could happen) it would be healthy as it mostly plays aggro but if something like a blob became meta it would sit back spamming paint and special
This was a really interesting essay, thanks. I often think about this game's balance, and wonder whether people are right to say that the patches were handled badly, or the devs know what they're doing and have different priorities. It's such a complex task when you think about it, having to have a vision/direction that guides the balance direction, choosing when and what to buff/nerf to eventually wind up reaching your goal, etc. I almost feel like asking for specific weapon buffs is missing the point, but on the other hand, not every buff needs to have a solid purpose, does it? It's okay to improve weapons in meaningful ways even if it upsets the balance a little, I think.
Thx for making a video about meta for the new people, one thing I would add is what's healty and unhealty for the game, people want a balance for how fun it's to play and watch the game, that makes it grow but if it's not fun to watch and/or play it's unhealty and the game gets less popular
For whats healty and unhealty for the game depends on what the developer wants, for exempel in splatoon 2 nobody wanted to make bans and the end game got to boring for both sides, and in ssb melee woboling with ice climbers got baned because it was unhealty for the game, so not only is the vison of the developer to decide whats healty and unhealty for the game, but also for the players to make what they want more of to get more of it (like banimg zoka and pensil and trying to make the developers make better maps with feedback)
Question from a non-player: Why is Neo Splash the weapon chosen for paint over other short-range shooters? Junior, Sploosh, and Aerospray are also high paint options in that weapon class, so why not one of them? Alternatively, why a shooter? Dread Wringer and the entire splattling class also have high paint, so why don't they see play?
I'll talk about this a bit more in a future video, but long story short Suction as a supportive bomb Better fighting then jr/sploosh/aero Mobility helps keep it alive more then something like Dread Strike is very valueable for the same role and a stronger special then any of these other options
could you try doing a video going over splatoon competitive team history? Like following the story of a certain team, why they were important / good etc.
True. This game's netcode is the reason why we don't see many Brella mains outside of Japan. Edit: This statemen has aged like milk. Nintendo is changing Brellas to fix latency.
Ngl I always thought the "meta" came from Smash Bros. Brawl where the tier list was based on who could fight the most overpowered character "META" Knight
I just thought of this but what if ink storm had ink lightning strikes 🤔 so the lightning strikes would pulse and deal idk damage and the rain 🌧️ would deal less damage.
A lot of people want everything to be buffed to the same insane power level of stamper and pencil instead of just nerfing them, but putting too much focus on buffing the weapons takes away other core parts of splatoon. Why be squid rolling or swimming when you could just use one of the many amazing weapons in this hypothetical meta. It’s like buffing the guns in an ability shooter to the point of not even using the abilities.
I was wondering how to you get those photos in the lobby of your character? I know how to in recon and the square but I’m curious on how to get to photo mode in the lobby.
Outside of weapons. There something I had an issue with mainly Tri Color. What I don’t understand is why do both attacking team when the point of it is to beat the Defending team. There’s been so many fests where I get screwed over in Tri color cuz the other attacking team kills us. Do u perhaps any insight on why this could be?
The Meta classification/differences between levels of play is a reason why I wish low level was willing to be more experimental. You can get away with a lot of wonky comps in low level if you really want to, but at least from what I’ve seen a lot still go for the same exact things top players use. Which yes, is a good strategy to get more used to it the closer you get…but I just wanna see more creativity ;-; there are low tier weapons that honestly even if only slightly do have a chance to shine in low level but I don’t rlly see anyone trying that
as the top comment puts it, meta being short for "most effective tactics available" is a backronym (which is when people make an acronym out of an existing word and claim that's its meaning/etemological origin despite it not actually being the case)
not related but i really hate acronyms that are also words. like, either just use an acronym or just use a word. if the acronym spells out a word, just use the word.
Hey chara I am planning at the end of July to right another letter and I want to include what the community wants and I was wondering if you could give me ideas to buff weapons nerf weapons and others
so if Neo Splash (a weapon with poor fighting capabilities) is used to spam paint and use special, then does that mean that other high-paint options like Gold Aerospray are viable? What makes Splash better than the rest?
my guess is that a) strikes might be more useful than booyah bomb & more importantly b) neo splash is still able to hold its own unlike aerospray. while spray does great with painting, it does terrible in fights because of its wide spread. this means it has to play more passively, which will ultimately lower its paint output over the course of the match. splash probably just strikes the perfect balance between getting enough paint & special to fill the spot while still having enough power to take space without its special. this is just my guess though.
Every time it comes up I'm still confused by this: crab meta was called crab meta because crab was overpowered on only splash. Dualies were acceptable but nothing like splash and the other two were bottom tier despite having clearly the strongest special in the game without question. Why isn't it called splash meta since splash was the biggest problem with crab?
I think it was called crab meta because, sure, it was splash that was insane with crab, but the meta was focused on getting, and fighting, crab. Machine was used because it was good against crab. Pencil sucked because it couldn't fight booyah, and crab. Splash was top tier, but everything was focused on beating crab. Not exactly beating splash.
I always found it rude whenever people described competitive play as a "fun sucking sweat fest of try hards" when makes literally no sense. Especially the "fun sucking" part, if you want to ruin all the fun in the game, then you wouldn't even want to play it to begin with for thousands of hours? Literally also ignoring the fact that a decent amount of people see a weapon that's kinda meh and say "I can make it work".
I just wish splatoon players werent so quick to write off a meta as solved, its very annoying. Every active meta in any competitive game sees major changes to its tier list over time even with zero developer input. Plenty of competitive metas have seen changes a decade after dev support as ended. Meanwhile, splatoon players act like their meta is solved after 6 weeks.
And all of this is what equals “WORST maps in Splatoon 3”? I hate this entry so much because of the maps and everyone focusing solely on spawn camping each other
