How Good Was Icy Manipulator, Actually? | The Card That Went from Staple to Bulk Overnight 

A clarification for what I say around 5:59: I didn't mean all tapped creatures didn't do combat damage, just blockers. That weird and unintuitive rule is exactl why they got rid of it a few years later!

been loving this series! false swipe created a template so good it would be foolish to NOT use it for your competitive game of choice, and with your eye form competitive history you absolutely ought to be the one using it for MTG!

Everyone else: Just an orb. Amy Weber: I call it bone clank.

This card will be forever ingrained in my memory because of a conversation I had with a friend while playing the game back in the old days. "Icy Manipulator." "Yeah? Well I see a backstabbing liar who calls himself my friend." "?????" "Just kidding."

Loving this series and the mtg history you bring to it! Hypnotic next week should be great! It would be a bit apples and oranges but would be cool to see the different cards in this series compared to each other

Should be mentioned that icy manipulator has really different art in all incarnations. Always loved how vague it is and how it “works” in the game.

I remember Royal Assassin being a high dollar card in the 1995 timeframe, just because of the combo with Icy (having been reprinted in Ice Age that summer).

Icy was definitely a boogeyman card back in the day. If your opponent stuck one, your reaction was, "Well, I'm behind now. How do I answer this"

I remember Icy trading for around $8 back in Ice Age days. It was one of the chase cards for sure.

I play a lot of Old School 93/94 and it’s a solid staple in that format. And that format uses the modern rules regarding tapped creatures and artifacts. I’ve seem quite a number of people die to an Icy tapping their City of Brass.

I actually never knew Icy Manipulator was in the initial sets, I had always thought it debuted in Ice Age! I mean, c'mon, that does make some sense, right? xD

I ADORE this new series! Crossing my fingers it does well enough to stick around.

Ah, the old "bone crank".

I've played Magic since 94, and can confirm, "Icy" as it was known, was one of the highest price, most powerful and most desired cards.

Hi Nizza, You could consider looking at current play patterns in 93/94 and premodern Magic formats for these older cards to get an idea about powerlevel in its natural surroundings from today’s perspective.

I remember having this in hand, and noticing my opponent had only one Blue Source of Mana on the board, for his Multi color deck. _(One which I later learned was Emerkul eldrazi finisher)_ I remember getting Icy Manipulator down, and locking that Island down for the better part of Ten turns. Long enough to use it to first survive, then stall the turn needed against the 15 mana Eldrazi... Which I used against him by copying with my various copy creature's. In Two player games, even when in EDH, this is not to be underestimated.

I briefly had a group that played commander '95 (cards legal up to 1995, same ban list), and Icy Manipulator, I can tell you, is insane.

As someone who started playing during unlimited, I’m loving this series. It’s like a trip down memory lane.

Great format if you ask me. As someone who began playing during the last days of Revised and for whom the release of Ice Age was THE big event, I can tell that buying a couple of starter and booster packs at my LGS and then late in the day back at home opening this reprint in a starter was quite a moment.

I never got to play with Icy in its heyday, but I had fun with it in Dominaria Remastered draft, especially when I realized it could effectively shut down an opposing Maze of Ith for one mana per turn. I didn't even think about how much it must have messed up combat back when tapped blockers didn't deal damage.

I love this series quite a lot. It’s nostalgic and informative, reminding me of my early days in Magic but also teaching me things I didn’t know in my youth. Plus, the explanation of how the game has changed is really intelligent, so thank you for that! I hope you’re able to continue it

I am loving this new series! I started playing during Revised while I was in Elem School. Love hearing about these older formats and rules.

It’s really interesting all the different lenses that you can view magic history through. This reminds me of the deep dives into the tribal decks over magics history.

Loving this series! Old, classic iconic cards don't get enough love in modern Magic. I'd love to see you continue on from Serra Angel to the other original "big deal" creatures: Force of Nature, Mahamoti Djinn, Shivan Dragon, and Sengir Vampire.

Fun interactions with continuous artifacts aside, it was invaluable for control back then. There was no efficient way to flood the board in that era with creature tokens, and the "Sligh" archetype hadn't developed yet. So aggro usually had to work with mid-sized to large creatures like Ernham and Juzam. Being able to lock down your opponent's best threat every turn meant it was easier to get them to over-commit to filling the board, and in turn, made sweepers like Wrath more efficient.

I opened 2 of these in my dominaria prerelease. They carried me to first place.

This new series is killer. I find the history of Magic pretty interesting and the use of tournament data with deck lists is really cool to see. The down side of said tournament data and deck lists is picturing all of those unsleeved dual lands and other high dollar cards getting beat to shit during game play

Love this new series.... a lot of the decks back in the day were the most interesting and the most Johnny friendly for deck building. The old design philosophy of trying to stop power creep by having powerful cards inherent disadvantages meant you always had to juggle efficiency and effect in so many ways compare to modern designs of hyper efficiency basically destroying a lot of this variety. Seeing a lot of "top cards" back in the day working wonders on these older decks is a treat to see how much folks broke down the game's various metas to overcome the inherent inefficiency design.

Great series! You should do the cards that were left out too, like Zuran Orb.

I'm glad you include the limited data. I had fun playing icy in a DMR draft for some sneaky wins

I only got to "Hi everyone!..." and smashed that Like button so fast. We need more of these!

I loved Icy Manipulator. All of the various rules changes killed all the best uses for it, but one of the biggest uses for it was that you could get much more value out of Wrath of God as Icy Manipulator caused the opponent to have to commit more creatures to the board to try and get damage through. Great video and a nice trip down memory lane. Thanks!

I'm really enjoying this series and it's fascinating to see why certain cards were super powerful back in the day. I hope you continue with it!

Dang, I remembered tapping Continuous Artifacts used to shut them off but I didn't know it turned off Poly Artifacts too, or that tapping blockers negated their combat damage. Early Magic rules were wild.

Well covered. The change in power was most definitely 6th edition rules changes in regard to continuous artifacts. Cards like Meekstone, Winter Orb and Howling mine are so good when they only work one sided!

It's legit amazing that Icy Manip was in *aggro decks* in the 90s! The game has changed so much

You are the best at these deep dives into the history of competitive magic. I'm really enjoying this new series!

I hope this series sticks around, it's really lovely.

Great video. Don't get rid of the ending song! It's such a banger

Some of the best art ever imo. I had a signed Beta Icy Manipulator and sold it for 50 over 20yrs ago. All those dark border early era cards just look so dammnnnn good!!!

I recently built a Hylda of the Icy Crown EDH deck, and it seriously broke my heart to cut Icy since it's such a flavorful and personally nostalgic addition. It's just so outclassed now.

When magic was a lot slower, the combo was Wrath of God/Icy Manipulator. If you could Wrath and put the manipulator down, you could tap/neutralize and creature they played, thus, forcing them to put 2 creatures down in order to damage you, at which point, you wrath again killing 2 of their creatures. I’m sure there are other combos, but that was a very good one from Magic’s early days.

Loving this serie! It brings me so found memories! Thank you very much! Please keep doing this!

This is a fun idea. Other cards that come to mind might be Black Vise and Ivory Tower.

This is a beautiful series, thank you

Loving this series!

Great video! ❤

To clarify and correct what you said at 9:59 (“in 1995, with the creation of Type I and Type II…”), the first Block Constructed Pro Tour was held not “that same year” but in 1996, and also “only cards from the three sets in Ice Age block were legal” in the event is not quite right, as Homelands was not yet included in the block and only Ice Age and Alliances were allowed at that PT, which is why the format was sometimes called “ALICE”. Homelands got retroactively added to Ice Age block in 1997 and then removed when Coldsnap was printed.

Great series. I love feeling like a boomer with these.

Absolutely loving this new series!

this series rocks! keep on going!

I had totally forgotten the "no damage" rules.

Man, I wasn't looking at the screen as you said what the two options were. I thought you said "Frozen Orb" (What I remembered Winter Orb to be called) not "Zuran Orb". Winter Orb was awesome.

Loving this new deep dive series.

This video was excellent. I would love to see more like this. Definitely checking out the mog fanatic video too.

Keep it up! Great video series

Just wanted to say that, this dive into individual cards has a being amazing and really hope you continue and love content. Any thoughts on draft vid for theros as recently release in premier draft. Keep up the great content

I really like this series. Hope to see more of it. 🙂

I like this keep doing this series!

Great video!

Awesome series, I reaaaaaally hope it’s there to stay

That Ice Age art and flavor text will always be my favorite version of the card.

Wizard's should consider printing a new version with additional effects that replicate the pre rules change behavior. Curious if that card would be competitive in today's constructed formats.

Even to this day, it remains a huge powerhouse in Limited, though. Being able to flexibly shut down the opponent's best attacker or blocker (and double up when appropriate) and fit into any deck makes it an easy first pick in most instances where there isn't a rare megabomb in the pack.

Someone else on this board mentioned icy going for $8. When I started playing in early 96, icy was going for $15 in my area at least. I always liked the Amy Weber "bone crank" art the best. Others here seem to as well. Awesome video series, keep up the great work!!

Pretty sure I remember some of the Owling Mine decks circa 2005 and 2006 ran some copies of Icy as additional land denial and as a way to shut off the Howline Mine

Yes, How Good Actually, is a GREAT template for videos. You just discovered an source of videos that will last for years. You'd be stupid not to make this a regular episode for your channel

Good series!

Just commenting to say I've been loving these new vids the deck retrospectives were great but as someone who doesn't actually play I find this one-card focus works better for me lol

This was when you needed to attack with creatures who didn’t also have six triggered abilities built in. They cast a spirit of the night, you tap it down every turn for one mana.

Legendary card 😍 I am always tempted to put it in some commander deck

I like the series … but more than the concept, it’s the fact that Nizzahon will always execute any concept well! I had no idea why Icy manipulator was so revered, but when I think about turning off winter orb for me and turning off howling mine for you … ya it sounds busted 😂

when i was playing standard in 2019, I didnt have the money to fully build esper hero, and so when i was building my deck, i put a 1 of icy manipulator in the sideboard so i could tap down crackling drake since it was such a good card at the time

I want this series to continue!!!!

I had a friend who ran icy and winter orb. It was a race to get my angels out before he could kismet lock me.

Oh my god royal assassin is literally my favorite card

I really enjoy the series although the algorithm never showed me it. I had to search for it!

if they made this card to reflect how it used to run they would have to make the ability strip other permanents of their abilities or a creature's ability to deal combat damage. it would be cool to have a stifle on a stick effect for stifle naught decks

Back then, you also used to mess with your opponent's mind, bc if they played multi colored, you could make them guess which land you were going to tap. They might respond by tapping a land before you made your choice and if they couldn't use that mana, take one due to mana burn, which I know doesn't exist anymore. But fun little tricks.

Thing about the Icy, NO one likes the art for it EXCEPT the Douglas Shular version.

Most of us competitive players from 1994 are still trying to figure out how Dolan got to the Final let alone win with such an unfocused deck. His opponent Bertrand Lestree had an excellent deck. The Final is well documented as Dolan just getting insane opening hands over and over.

WotC should start printing cards that let older staples like Icy be competitive again, something like this: Soldevi Artificer 2UW Creature - Human Artificer 1/4 When Soldevi Artificer enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a card named Icy Manipulator and put it onto the battlefield. Tapped artifacts lose all abilities Tapped blocking creatures deal no combat damage Ward 2

I like this series.

The O.G. art was so great.

I like this series :)

Even now, things that worked beautifully with it are just too easily removed. Royal assassin and Nettling Imp are easily destroyed.

Icy Manipulator is remembered far more fondly than its actual impact on play. When I played the tourney scene in the mid to late 90's Icy was already a beat too slow. The Ice Age reprint felt awesome until you realized that now everyone knew Icy just wasn't worth it. Sure there were a few Icy/Orb decks (some using propaganda) but in general -despite being an artifact- Icy was not an auto-splash into every deck....not even close.

The history of Icy Manipulator on the Restricted list...the Restricted List was introduced in January 1994 with cards like Dingus Egg. Gauntlet Of Might, Ali From Cairo and Rukh Egg along with Icy Manipulator. Two months later Icy Manipulator was unrestricted because it simply wasn't that strong. The next month after that, Dingus Egg and Gauntlet Of Might were unrestricted while Ali was still there...I'm guessing Rukh Egg errata'ed off the list. So basically it was the first card to ever come off the Restricted List to due not being powerful enough. March 1994, way before 6th Edition. It's an extremely flexible card that costs a bit too much mana as 4 mana effects like Wrath Of God, Mind Twist, Armageddon, etc. were the norm. You watch people play old school just as you see all of these old decklists...no one plays 4 of this card. 3x mainboard is somewhat excessive. One or two? Maybe if the card pool is shallow, as it was in 1996 Type 2. The only 4x is the one deck that combo's well with expensive artifacts, Baxter's Titania's Song. Usually, Icy Manipulator slows the opponent down if it doesn't slow you down first. It's not as good as say...Jayemdae Tome. It never is a card that wins you the game unless it combos with another card.

Royal Assassin + Icy Manipulator. Old school tech.

Wow, I had no idea Icy Manipulator was that versatile back in the day!

Icy disrupted combat wonderfully. Against it, an attacker had to assume their best creature would get tapped. Then the blocking team would often have favorable matchups.

1993 "Limited" was pretty much non-existent since packs would sell out almost instantly and most importantly sealed decks. We didn't get actual serious sealed deck until 1995-ish when there was an abundance of leftover Revised starters and a very high supply of Ice Age starters. Booster draft started when there was plenty of Revised booster boxes although it was a bit sketchy as lands were still in the packs in the commons and uncommons slots. In Ice Age draft, Icy was a good card but it wasn't the most sought after...the set was so underpowered and the set was huge so it wasn't that easy to pull an Icy while major offensive cards like Scaled Wurm, Incinerate and Lava Burst. The expansion sets inbetween were 8 card packs like The Dark, Fallen Empires, Homelands, etc. Side note, the serious format for sealed deck back then was called Grandmaster.

How good was Thicket Basilisk + Lure actually?

That's basically a good test for me; If a limited format can get it so Icy Manipulator has an above average win rate, it's probably one I'll enjoy playing. It's not a fast, 60-card format type card, and 4-mana would be too much to not add to the board in a lot of recent limited environments. But I can see the Manipulator being decent in Thunder Junction; Not great, but I don't think it ever will be "great" again.

For the record: as somebody who played against this deck pre and post errata - allow me to dispell any silly notions about Icy falling off a cliff after the errata. *it did not see nearly as much competitive play because it now took more than 3 brain cells to pilot, but it wasnt bad at all. It definitely fell off for 4-5 years, but as soon as cards like Garruk Wildspeaker, Jace the Mind Sculptor and the ravnica bounce lands came out - all of a sudden Icy manip decks were strong again. Humor me. Get yourself a G/U icy manip deck shell. Include Garruk, Ravnica simic lands, and something that can tap an icy manipulator at the end phase of your opponents turn - and suddenly the only one being manipulated is your opponent. Pygmy hippo STILL works great in the deck in 2024. Play icy a turn they tap out and you cruise to a win

I'm guessing this only applied to tapped defending creatures?

The first chase card i ever craved in 94.

I wonder what stats it would have to have to be playable. 3 cmc to enter (or even 2) and only tap to activate?

12:11 Surely you're talking about tapped *blocking* creatures

Only have 1 thing to say. Hilda Of The Icy Crown.