This should not be try it at home without supervision if you don’t know what you’re doing you can have a serious accident and burn yourself. Refrigerant is no joke and nothing to play around with. Sorry that’s the truth this is one thing you don’t want to make a mistake with.
I need to add Freon. I have an inside unit in my basement. I finally was able to use my unit for first time and after three days it was frozen. It got colder for a couple days so I let it melt. My landlord said it might need Freon. There’s duct tape around unit that’s falling off. So I’m going to change filter and reapply duct tape around. See if that works first. If not, then I’ll have to call someone. What’s an estimate for Freon ? I’m a woman and no nothing about units. Only basics
As a tech that learned everything either out in the field or on RU-vid when I started, I distinctly remember when things finally snapped and became clear in my head when it came to refrigerant - from then on I always referred to the charge(especially the suction side) in terms of TEMPERATURE - not PRESSURE when communicating an issue to someone else or while figuring out the issue. Trained a few other guys at the first company I worked for and would always try to get them to think in the same terms (Blue gauge TEMP, Red gauge Pressure) - it makes understanding Superheat and Subcooling (and what it means in the system that much easier).
Great info! Good to hear others doing the same! I have an experienced refrigeration guy who only wants to talk pressures when he's talking to others. everyone's different but can't bag on him since he's such a good tech. Thanks again
i literally didnt understand a single part of this video, but something about listening to a guy who knows what he's talking about with visuals is so awesome
Going into my second summer and really am understanding these systems is becoming increasingly easier to understand. Really appreciate the video for folks like me.
Greg, you have killed it as a small business owner. Most of you guys put out alot of great stuff on HVAC technical stuff. That's awesome. I would LOVE to hear more about the actual building of the business and growing it. Thats very inspiring!!! Keep doing great things brother! Chance from Myrtle Beach SC
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
Thanks for making this video - best one I've seen on how to properly add refrigerant to a system. Helped me to top off my boat's A/C unit. Best regards from Key West, Capt. Blackheart Charlie
great information about charging, before charge i would try find leak first, open evap coil panel, look in drain pan for any trace of oil, most of the time thats where it leaks, if its is leaking, most coils have 10 year warranty, get it done when its under warranty.
Thanks for the video! One question... Wouldn't you want to find out where the leak is? 5 lbs. is a substantial leak, I would think you would be back there soon.
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
& if the liquid line temperature (make sure the sun or your hand, or other heat source is not warming the area where your temp probe is mounted) is cooler than the outside ambient temp, then suspect a restriction up stream for that measured spot of the liquid line....i.e. a liquid line filter drier. Take a Delta-T across a liquid line filter drier, if it happens to be located up stream from the measured spot of the liquid line. If there is a temp drop of (I think) more than 3 degrees, I have been told that the liquid line filter drier is the source of the restriction, & would need to be replaced with a new one.
Thanks very informative but one question @start if you are talking about td or approach temperature it shouldn't be return air temp ‐32 or 35 = coil temp
The further the distance between both units dictates the amount of time for a full cycle. A system that is charged will feel beer can cold. Always use your gauges and get valve extensions with cut off. Then you can bleed most of the refrigerant back onto the system before disconnecting.
Hi, boss, why not use digital gauge which can give you either superheat or subcool right away, easier & faster. (One more thing, I think R-410A is a blended refrigerant, it can only be added as liquid in suction side, you'd better mention it to use a nuzzle or throttling method.)
Not needed, his gauge works...all he has to do is add 10 to the cold side and if it matches the hot he is done. I can deduct that equation faster than clamping on the sub cool wire.
Seems like some schools say add liquid, some vapor. I have seen both work and understand the phase change is the magic. What is your thinking in liquid over vapor?
add as a liquid 400 series refrigerants like 410A are a blend, when its a gas some of it separates and you may add more of a certain part of it, scroll compressors can take a small little bit of liquid
Very informative. I have a somewhat different situation. A friend bought an abandoned building, and will soon tear it down and build a new one. I can take whatever I want before the demolition, such as the AC and furnace components. I believe the AC has not been turned on for over five years. Is my first step to check the high and low side pressures at the compressor? If there is decent pressure at the compressor, would it make sense to try to get the AC running in the building? Or would it be better to disassemble everything and check the components individually, prior to reassembly at the garage I'm building? If there is pressure in the system, is there an easy way to capture the freon and reuse it at my new location?
Can it be replaced with refrigerant grade propane instead? Or could you run regular propane through an activated charcoal and zeolite filter, and then use that?
First of all I want to say I’ve only listened to half this video. The first half has huge gaps in no sound. Next I want to say everybody’s going about this the hard way. 410a is a blend of three separate gases. If one of these gases leaks out from the system everything that’s in The system is suspect. The best way to recharge a system is to see first of all if you can find a leak. If there is no obvious leaks the next thing you should do is to change the valve cores on the access ports. The next thing you should do is evacuate all the refrigerant that is in the system. Read the data on the nameplate data and find out how many ounces or pounds and ounces your unit takes to operate efficiently. A digital scale is needed to put the proper charge in the system with “ The bottle turned upside down so that the shut off valve is on the bottom”. The refrigerant bottle should be upside down on your Digital scale. If you have evacuated the system, you should then put The liquid in the high side first. Once the system is equalized, you may now turn on The system so that it runs. Slowly put the liquid into the suction side. If you put it in too fast, it will wash away the oil in the compressor and cause compressor failure. Once you have the measured amount call for on the nameplate data in the system, check for proper pressures on the gauges and temperatures. You are checking for the return air temperature and the supply air temperature for the inside ( approximately 20 to 30° difference). For the outside, you are checking outdoor temperature versus exhaust temperature of the fan on the condensing unit. This should take care of your cooling problem. However, this is only if you have a small leak in the system somewhere. You could still have a metering device problem or other problems with the system. As in someone else’s post, the only way you can buy this refrigerant is if you hold an EPA certification. This is something that is not normally held by the homeowner. Unfortunately, the best way to fix your problem is to call a technician. I say unfortunately because you’re going to have to bite the bullet and pay the trained individual to fix your unit. This really is not a homeowner fix.
I didn’t go into great detail because this is for the trained technician. I will say this about leaks, small leaks are usually noted by oily patches on the coil or oily patches on the copper lines. You will usually need an OXY acetylene torch set to fix these kinds of problems. That is why I suggest a trained technician.
As a self-professed expert, it would be expected for you to know that 410a has 2 gases, not 3. 50/50 blend of r32 and r125. A discerning reader would use this observation when judging the reliability of the rest of the write up.
@@fredware1324 For the leak, why couldn't you thoroughly clean the area with a good solvent cleaner (and/or rough it up a bit with some sandpaper), and then use original JB Weld epoxy? JB Weld is one of the few epoxies that works well with vacuum systems (i.e. can seal them well without outgassing much and being very low permeable), has a broad temp tolerance range, is pretty strong _and_ tough stuff.
Hi, my r410a with txv unit. The suction saturation temp is about 33F and suction line temp is 48F giving 15F of superheat. But why is my liquid line saturation temp is 97 and my liquid line temp is also 97. I tried adding some refrigerant but nothing changes. This is a high velocity system air handler with a slab coil. I think my suction saturation temp is also too low. Both coils are clean and txv valve is new. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
My 2015 410a Lennox systems show no subcool on the plate. They show 236 low, 446 High. Low was 75 PSI and bedroom vent to bedroom ceilings Diff was 10F deg. Added 410a refrigerant slowly while running bringing low up to just over 100 PSI and High just under 300PSI. We keep Thermostat at 76F. Bedroom vent to ceiling diff is now 20-22F, two floors down from system in attic. Is this ok or overcharged? Or, can it do even better if I bring low up to 125PSI? Also, Do better SEERs result in larger vent to ceiling diffs or same but work more efficiently? Did not touch my 3rd AC for 1st floor which runs great with a new A-coil last year. It runs at 125 PSI low and about 325 Hi. I assume different tonnage units use the same pressures given its never mentioned in tutorials. Please excuse my HVAC newbie homeowner questions. Thank you.
1st thing everyone thinks, my system needs charged. Unless a leak exists and system was not probably charged during install, it should not be low on gas- refrigerant, freon is a trade name for dupont r-12. I will not be watching to the end, I assume you discuss bleeding has from the high side hose after disconnect. If not every time someone connects and disconnects you lose several oz.of refrigerant. Forget the rest, call the best
Never charge vapor with a blend like R410A, you will compromise the blend as the different refrigerants evaporate at different temperatures, in fact, I have never seen anyone comment on this but I always make a habit of shaking the cylinder to mix everything up before charging.
compressors in residential can handle small amount of liquid, open the suction valve on your gauge a little bit as you add, creates some flash gas, like how a fixed orfice metering device works
How old are you? If you are young and or can afford it go to school. It will pay off in the end. Also make sure you in your state that going to a trade school is not a requirement for apprenticeship or journeyman. You will have a easier time getting the jobs you want.
You should find a apprenticeship program with a hvac company, they need new hvac techs. Going to school won’t help you if you’ve never laid your hands on a hvac unit.
leaks in systems means more money in my pocket dont add gas if you know its going to leak right back out TELL customer the only way to fix it is to fix it right!!!! FIX LEAK!! FIRST THEN ADD GAS
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
It's ok to add on high side if it's empty . With the unit not running. for few pounds then go to low side for the rest of it,but feed it just little at a time
A guy came out today to charge our system with refrigerant and he said possibly there was a stuck valve inside because he couldn't get the unit to take any refrigerant but he seems like a total f****** dork can this be true do I need to have a tech come out and look at the valve on the inside of the house
it only cost me $200 for a guy to come out for a couple hours and diagnose everything and fill the unit. just pay the guy with experience this high pressure stuff aint like fixing a sink drain.
IMO you should be addressing the leak instead of topping off the system & you shouldn't be showing people how to top off a system. I have no issues explaining HVAC but you absolutely should not be doing any of this without proper supervision & or training
The video is made as a refresher for people in the field with HVAC technical training. Greg Fox says that in the course of the video. You apparently have no such training under your belt, nor were you paying close enough attention to hear Greg state who the audience should be. Rather than criticizing him for his expertise, shouldn't you be looking for a video that's simple enough for you to understand? Or, better, yet, maybe you should hire someone to do this work for you... yes?
Only EPA certIfied individuals can handle, work with, or even purchase refrigerant by law! Tnere is no "do it yourself" in this area. Also, an HVAC technician gains nothing from this video. As far as for a person who is not a formally trained HVAC technicisn viewing tnis video and then doing the work this video decribes, that is against the law! At first, I thought this video was for technicians, but then I quickly realized that no HVAC technician can learn anything at all from this video...Then, at the end of the video, it mentions that the video is for HVAC technicians in the field AND "others". Again, an HVAC technician can learn nothing from this video. It's like someone who knows calculus watching a video that teaches how to add and subtract. The person who knows calculus already knows how to add and subtract. That is why this video offers nothing to an HVAC technician. Again, the end of this video mentions it is for HVAC techhnicians and "others". That others part is disturbing because it is against the law for "others" to do what this video describes!
You don’t live in the real world dude. In the real world everyone cheats on their epa tests to get certified and then watches RU-vid to learn about AC stuff and then goes and does work. That’s how people in the real world do it.
@@batman88ironman my generation of HVAC/R service technicians came into the trade before there was even such a thing as the internet, much less social media. The EPA test was in its first year when I was in trade school in the early 1990s. We took it as a paper test in front of our instructors who proctored the exam. You either knew the material and passed or did not know it and failed. Again, there was no such thing as the internet. We studied by actually reading the material and doing our labwork, plus doing the work out in the field. Maybe you are right about how you and all of the technicians who you interact with go about executing the work, but as for me and the generation of technicians I came into the trade with, we did things the old fashioned way...we earned it honestly which took time and hard work. We invested sweat equity into this beautuful trade. As for your repetitive referral to the "real world", I do live in the world, sir. It is one where the work is done honestly because it is RESPECTED. That is how you not only earn an EPA certification, but also how you become a licensed HVAC/R journeyman and a licensed HVAC/R contractor. Respect the work by doing it honestly, even when no one is looking. Us guys in our late forties and beyond understand that principle. We understood it by living it. Good day, sir.
All of these people worried about EPA rules etc. yet no one is too worried about a system that is leaking when it comes to the atmosphere. Most customers will say "just top it off" and consider a more permanent fix some other time.
I took out all the freons from my unit, then I added propane. System is way colder I would say. Thanks for showing me how to do this and what tools to buy on craigslist
I've been wondering about this myself of late. Besides this video, are there any other good resources to help with this? Speaking hypothetically, of course. I'm just interested in the physics and mechanics of it all, and wouldn't think of attempting this on my on own home system.
I don't do residential HVAC but in managing my own automotive HVAC I learned one thing. Well, a few but this one too. If I think the system may be under charged ALWAYS leak check the service ports BEFORE touching them with ANY tools or equipment. You will not find a leaking schrader valve with gauges attached and you will not have a definitive diagnosis if the reseating that takes place "fixes" the problem. Thank you for doing what you do here on RU-vid.
This is a good first step. When I get a no ac call it's the first thing I check. Check for power, check for leaks at valves. I'd say 20% of the time in the last 4 months I has been one of the valves.
@@travischaddock4826 And how often did the valve leak because some numbnut didn't tighten or even bother to reinstall the caps and it got dirt and corrosion in the port? It never leaked before untill YOU went and stuck your tool in it and let all the crap into the seal. Some people automatically change out the valves whenever they are going to enter or have entered a system.
Hi dear sir:im really complicated about charging liquid to suction line,for example 2 lb liquid refrigrant to suction line dosnt damage the comppresor? As ive been thought that liquid will damage comppressor in suction line and the reason that we sgould have sh at suction line is that to prevent liquid gas return to compresor.please explain.yours sincerly :peeno
Keep up the awesomeness every thing said in this video is how it should be taught at the schools and in field training good job guys all around 10 stars
Great video Fox !!! How would you charge up a system that does not let the compressor come on because of the Low Pressure Switch preventing the contactor to close ? ( would you use vapor first as to not to hit the compressor and fill it just enough for the compressor to come on or would you fill with liquid right away ??? ) Thank you so much for taking your time and trying to answer my question !!!
what did you end up doing? I ask since thought vapor shouldn't be separated out. I have the same situation happening currently since I can't get my Dave Lennox XC21 edition compressor to turn on even though it is calling since the low pressure switch is preventing it.
@@humphreydchen sorry to hear man! And also sorry that I don't have a solution for you - I just left the whole thing for now while suffering Miami temperatures every day
@@humphreydchen after calling 4 AC guys in the past 11 months I now found one (through a friend) that did not try to extort thousands of dollars and actually fixed my AC ... I can not tell you how I feel ( my 4.5T TRANE was basically empty needed 11lb of 410A) and everything I diagnosed as in perfect working order - did not check out/work at all when he checked it - so he checked for leaks with nitrogen,filled the system,rigged the control board inside the air handler, fitted a new contactor and it works now ) so don't give up : good things come to those who wait, even in 108ºF ( pun fully intended )
You did a good job explaining why and how to properly charge a system by temperatures instead of gauges, and really sounded like you know what you are talking about and seems like you went to trade school or learned off a educated teacher (instructor).
I appreciate that. I actually learned all this in the field, as I started this trade from scratch as a helper and worked my way up. Thanks for the comment. I really appreciate it
Hello Fox Family, a question, when adding refrigerant, how do I know my refrigerant tank is empty? By looking at the small rounded window on the manifold?
A scale will tell you that info. But if you shake the tank side to side (don't go overboard!) you will feel the liquid refrigerant inside. A tank starts out around 25 to 30 lbs. The tank itself weighs just a few at the most. This should give you good info.
Can’t really top off a 410A system if it’s running low on pressure. 410A is a blend and if you have a leak the blend of refrigerants boil off at different pressure’s . Knowing that you don’t know which of the blend is low . This means pulling all the refrigerant out and replacing it with a fresh charge of 410A . Saying that you need to locate leak or you will bring doing this all over again. New refrigerant blends are Dothan the old R22 or R12 refrigerants that you could just top off .
Can you help me with following math? * AC unit on the attic, ducts insulated. * R410A, * out door temp - 93f, * low(blue) pressure/temp - 160psi/55f, * high(red) pressure/temp - 340psi/105f, * return pipe temp - 100-105f. * (out side temp) - (high(red) temp) = 12f what is less than expected 15f. * (high(red) temp) - (return pipe temp) = 0f (sometimes 5f) what is less than expected 10f. * (supply temp) - (the nearest cooling grill temp) = 7f up to 10f what is at least 9f less than expected. Note: AC documents/labels do not have any suggestion regarding subcooling (Goodman GSX130301B*) Math with 15f difference between outside temp vs (high(red) temp) and 10f difference between (high(red) temp) vs return pipe temp does not work here. I have 12f (very close) and 5 to 0f (big difference). Questions: 1. did I get it right the system needs charging to hit 115F on (high(red) temp) gauge, so there is 10f difference with return pipe temp? 2. To hit 115f on gauge I need to add 40PSI. What is approximately amount of refrigerant I need? if I buy 5 lb would it be enough or should I buy 10 lb to be safe?
Thanks for the video. Can you tell me why you turn the 410A upsidedown? I hear you are to keep the R22 right side up. Does feeding liquid shock the compressor when you turn 410A upside down?
No it's just the way you're supposed to charge a blended refrigerant like 410. I actually just turn 22 upside down too. Scroll compressors are much lore resilient to liquid refrigerant than recip or piston compressors of the past.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 thanks, that makes sense,one more question, is there any other blended refrigerant out there like the new one that replaces R22 or the new one that will replace 410a? Thanks.
@@Mustang7995 we use 407c for R22. But we remove existing R22 before doing so. As for 410a no one is using any alt. refrigerant for it as far as I know.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 As of January, 2022, COMSTAR has perfected a "DROP IN REPLACEMENT" FOR R-410-A. This new "blended refrigerant" is called RS-53 (or R-470A). It's supposed to allow existing 410-A air conditioning systems to operate to factory specifications without any "modifications." All of the old R-410-A refrigerant needs to be removed from an existing system, and the NEW refrigerant (R-470-A) added back in. The GWP of this new product is more than 50 percent less than the GWP of R-410-A. This should satisfy the EPA, but who knows what our politicians in congress will allow. If this new product is successful, all of the HVAC equipment manufacturers can continue to make and distribute the same equipment for many more years into the future!!
Never add R check for supply air return air temps. If less that 21 degree split after 20 minutes check the entering air to outdoor coil temp entering air in shade. If liquid line temp is lower on liquid line than shaded entering shaded coil temp your low on R. If to high on liquid line than O.D. entering air (shaded) temp more than 11 degrees it's slightly over charged.
It's 2 am and it sounds like a water fall in my ac closet , low on freon again , non of the local ax companies can fix the leak , spent enough to replace it now , had them redo the drain also , they didn't get that right either ..guess I gotta do it myself , after spending thousands to have local professionals do it ..what a joke ..got my macs license, bought my own gauges , bought some freon , got the multimeter that does Temps and such , still don't have a scale , but at 2 am ...priceless ..fixed it in 14 minutes for now ...now where is that leak , dam Sulphur water ate the new air handler (everything is right by the bathroom door that we shower in ) is what there telling me ????
I have a friend who is a licensed mechanical engineer in hvac systems and she says the ONLY proper way to add refrigerant is to pump the system down and add new refrigerant into the vacuumed lines. Is she wrong?
