OurHumbleLife when people like you speak( it’s what you guys are saying) it’s smells bs. Like a broken record player, not from clarity, peace, beauty and love( GOD)☹️😖
An Irish lay theologian of the 50's and 60's was Frank Sheed. He has a very great description of the Trinity. We know that God can create persons that are not Himself nor of the same 'God-Nature'; because that describes us and the Angels (human and Angelic persons). Before God created us or anything; there was only God. God had only ONE eternal idea and that was of Himself. That idea was so perfect it was a person like Himself (remember God can create persons); but being as eternal as Himself it was not created but eternally generated and of the exact same God-Nature (since there was nothing else). Likewise the Holy Spirit was the Love eternally generated between the two persons in the ONE God-Nature. That is three Persons in one God; not sharing the Divine Nature but each being FULLY God. That is how we are mono-theists yet hold to the Trinity.
@@peasantarcher9807 There is no theorectical reason or logical reason to stop at three. The reason we stop at three is because this is what has been revealed to us about the Triune Nature of God. That there is a God is plainly deduced from logic and our understanding of existence. That there is only three persons in the one Godhead that has existed for all eternity is what has been revealed to us via the personal interaction we have had with our Creator throughout our history.
@@39knightsI’m sorry but this explanation is ridiculous when we consider what is at stake here. Whose interaction throughout history? The Jews, who came before you, are adamant about their rejection of the trinity. The muslims, who claim to have come after you, find it just as blasphemous. NOWHERE, is it mentioned in BOTH testaments and yet I will burn in eternal hellfire if I don’t believe in it. Think about it, God will judge me a bad person if I don’t believe in a doctrine he HIMSELF has never mentioned in his own revelation explicitly. What an evil god that would be…
@@Tessinentdecken That depends on what you mean by "man made". The term itself? Definetly. Yet the idea is deeply rooted in the New Testament and beyond if you take a look at Genesis.
My religion teacher tought us, that 3 people are the necessity of total and pure love. One person, and it has love for itself, selfishness. Two people, and you have love for eachother, eros. Three people and you have pure love, the love to share.
They're not trying to prove anything, just simply sharing something that their teacher taught them. If you're looking for proof, you won't find it in RU-vid comments...
SquirrellyFries The Bible says that God has clearly shown us the Godhead so it's not suppose to be confusing and difficult to understand. Romans 1:19-20 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and *Godhead* ; so that they are without excuse: God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One person, but he has three roles or titles, kind of like how someone can be a father, brother, and uncle. One person, three roles. God's roles: Father-he is our heavenly Father and our creator. Son-he became flesh and died for our sins. Holy Spirit-he guides us and leads us to the truth.
NJ B While it is true that God has revealed himself completely to us in the person of Jesus, it is pure vanity to think that our limited human minds can fully wrap themselves around the nature of the infinite God. We only know God is Trinity because he revealed it to us, not because we came to it from our own reason. The view of the Trinity as you describe it is called Modalism, and it has been condemned by the church as a heresy since the 3rd century.
SquirrellyFries I used to be a trinitarian for years. Here I'll explain why if Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit yet he always refers to the Father. First read this verse which proves he is all. Colossians 2:8-9 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Here it is very clear. Now to the question of why Jesus refers to the Father and even prays to him. So me and you can both agree that Jesus is both man and God. Jesus had a perfect “dual nature”. He was fully God (the Father) when He healed the sick, raised the dead, delivered demonized people, calmed the sea and wind, multiplied the bread and fish, put a coin in a fish’s mouth, turned water into wine, etc. He was fully Man (the Son) when he wept, thirsted, hungered, slept, etc. In the Garden, His flesh (the Son) cried out to the Spirit (the Father) to be delivered from what was coming. Because of Him being God, Jesus knew when He would die, how He would die, where He would die, etc. While being God, He could handle that (and everything else…), but as Man, His flesh rebelled against it. The prayer in the Garden was to put His flesh under subjection to the Spirit. Jesus prayed in His humanity, not in His deity. If the prayers of Jesus demonstrate that the divine nature of Jesus is different than the Father, then Jesus is inferior to the Father in deity. In other words, if Jesus prayed as God then His position in the Godhead would be somehow inferior to the other “persons.” This one example effectively destroys the concept of a trinity of co-equal persons.
``Kind of like how someone can be a father, brother, and uncle´´: someone could be the father OF his son, the brother OF the other brother, and the uncle OF his nephew. Three different titles, of course, but only about his relationship with other persons, not with himself (nobody could be their own father or their own uncle, as an example). If Jesus is the Son, necessarily he is the son of someone, and that means that he is loved by someone who loves him like a father loves his son: ``I have loved you just as the Father has loved me´´ (John 15, 9-10). The same dignity by the same divine nature, even though not all the Persons in the Trinity do the same actions and have the same role, as someone and his son have the same human dignity (both of them are human persons), but have in other way different roles in the love (as Richard of Saint Victor explained).
It's not an explicitly stated doctrine or teaching in scripture such as the crucifixion, death, burial, resurrection, ascension and accepting Jesus as the promised Messiah, you have added to the scriptures. And this took them about 350 years after the day of Pentecost to force this onto believers via the Edict of Thessalonica and by the Roman sword. Shema.
Awesome. Also family which extends itself outwardly into the world yet still contains all of whom created a person. Or the conscious being able to know its self, see itself from outside itself and also contemplate it's being in the past all while still physically present.
I'll put it simply... Red is not Blue and Blue is not Red... but those 2 colors are wavelengths of Light. the only thing that brings those two colors into this world is light... so in essence they are all One. and there you have a very simple explanation of the trinity, to explain that again, God is one in Being. 1 Light Source but 3 in Person being the Light Particle and the property it brings to the world for us to see, the wavelengths Red/Blue. it is not 1 + 1 + 1 as there is only 1 Light source (God), 1+1+1 would mean that there are 3 light sources (3 separate Gods). the right equation is 1 Light source... 1x1x1 = 1
Whatever analogies you may use, the trinity is not supported by the scriptures and is the most absurd doctrine in trinitarian Christianity. We can only assume that it crept into Christianity from Paganism, possibly to placate the new pagan converts whose worship of multi-gods could sit comfortably with three gods. If the early Church fathers had known what they are getting into they would certainly have embraced the Jewish God or, at the worst, would have adopted the Arian version of God
That's a good point you make. I never thought of connection God being love back to The Holy Trinity, but it makes complete sense. Before everything, God was/is, and God is also love. You can't have love between something and nothing, so there has to be another part of God's being for him to BE love. Really makes you think. Thank you for such deep reflection
CS Lewis explains the Holy Trinity eloquently and it leaves those would question it with no place to go ~ he’s gifted that way ~ and you seemed to hit the nail ~
The point of the Trinity is not to question the single essence of God, but rather to comprehend the energies of God, or how a single God, who's outside the created world, manifests himself in the created world, so the Hypostasis are the eternal manifestations of God, or more precisely the Spirit of God/Parakletos stands for God's relation with anything in the created world, the Word of God/Logos stands for God's actions in the created world, while the Pater is not exactly a manifestation, but rather the source of both Hypostasis, outside the created world.
Love your videos. I am a muslim. I did a lot of study about Christianity. And i want to convert to Catholicism. Can i convert? Will Catholic Church accept me?
I can't think of any religion that doesn't take converts. Hopefully you live in a non-Muslim nation. Converting out of Islam is considered a crime punishable by death in some nations.
#JustMyThoughtProcess Can you divide infinity? The answer could be [∞/3]. Does each part become finite? I wouldn't think so. If you add them together, do they become something bigger than infinity? I do think, infinity times 3 is still infinity...
That's because infinity, as it is attributed to God's eternal nature, is not a number or a quantity. Mathematical equations applied to God who has no limit or quantity are futile.
As a Catholic, I've never really liked the "God is love" argument. I feel like it wouldn't hold up to scrutiny. Is God mercy or forgiveness? Is God grace? It would seem that those things require sinful people as recipients and therefore God cannot be them. Is love somehow different than those other nouns?
@@DePeaceHunter I don't think it's the strongest argument. We believe in the Trinity because it is revealed in Scripture and Tradition, so that is the argument that should be put forward.
As the Poet and Philosopher Allama Iqbal said: Christianity describes God as love; Islam as power. How shall we decide between the two conceptions? I think the history of mankind and of the universe as a whole must tell us as to which of the two conceptions is truer. I find that God reveals Himself in history more as power than love. I do not deny the love of God; I mean that, on the basis of our historical experience, God is better described as power.
I like to think of it as passing a tesseract through a piece of paper, in its truest portrayal, a tesseract is quite complicated, but pass one side of it through a piece of paper and what you see reflected on there becomes interesting, the first outer square shows up, vanishes then gives way to the second, smaller one...etc, seeing these individual portrayals of the tesseract reflected on a 2d plane doesn't separate said squares from the whole that is the tessarect itself...such i think is how the three that is one could be understood as well..
God is a set that consists of three things. The set itself is one thing. Easy math, easy to understand. I don't see why anyone thinks it's hard to understand.
God the Father is the thinker. God the Son is the thought, or word. Before a word is spoken it must be a thought. The perfection of God the father is God the son. And the perfection of God the son is God the father. God loves his own perfection and that love between the two is the Holy Spirit.
So you are saying that there was a time that the Son only existed as a thought in God's mind? As a christian who does not subscribe to Necea or Chalcedon, I agree with that.
Arne Johannessen I believe the Son is eternal because everything in God is eternal including His "thoughts". So yeah the Logos is not some different being, rather a manifestation of God's "mind"
3 separate and distinct persons but of one mind. God almighty creator of everything. Jesus is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit who testifies (truth) of God and Christ all of one mind. God is Love. When Jesus was on the cross dying for us. I doubt he was talking to himself. He was speaking to God in Heaven.
The better question is Which is true ? The Catholic or the Orthodox ?? The way they explain is different . Who has the Holy Spirit ?? In the Bible Jesus say GOD IS ONE , but the Church say God is 3 in 1. Have you never wondered , for 300 years before the trinity idea is finalized , the people who lived before that , are they saved ?? Imagine Jesus when he was on earth NEVER TALKED ABOUT TRINITY ... Is then Jesus willfully misguiding the people ?? Or has mankind changed Christianity to suit their needs
I just don’t think the trinity concept should be so difficult. So many people trying to explain it and it’s so complicated! If it’s in the Bible then just show where it’s in the Bible.
Hey Brian! Just wanna give a little thing to be reconsidered as well. As we know, God is Timeless and also Spaceless. So the question " who did God love before He created his creations ?" become irrelevant, because God himself created time. God is much more greater than to be put into circumstances or timing that has to be fulfilled like "before creation". Also maybe to understand the trinity we can start on really understanding every detail of it, like the roles of every person in it, what are their attributes and what differs them from each other, rather than trying to force this doctrine to make sense just because we shouldn't expect simplicity from God. Anyways, really like the color and vibess 👍🏻
Another question that muslims ask a lot is did God die in christianity because jesus is the son of God and the son is a part of the trinity meaning he's a part of God , and as we all know christianity teaches that jesus died on the cross. So the question is did God die ???
Au contraire In Greek mythology, Zeus, Hades, and Dionysus are sometimes unified as a tripartite god to represent the birth, death, and resurrection of a deity. This unification also combines the "shining" realm of Zeus with the dark underworld realm of Hades.
I think I have a better explanation for The Holy Trinity: “To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself-that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word-doublethink-involved the use of doublethink.” -George Orwell, 1984. That description, minus the part about democracy (sometimes, depending on who you’re listening to), makes sense not only of the Trinity, but of the explanation given in this video, and every other explanation I have ever heard anyone try to give of the Three being One yet separate. Rather than twist my brain into knots to force an obvious paradox to make sense, I can now just step back and acknowledge the doublethink for what it is.
Zeerak Ibrahim no that's not what he is saying. What he is saying is that the universal attribute of God that he is live is one of the easiest ways in which HE uses to explain the trinity. There are other means as well. Such as Thomas Aquinas way of the consciousness that I lauded to in my first comment.
Kind of, yes, as the Trinity is an Article of Faith that cannot be discovered thru reason, so if the Church is wrong about God being Love, there is no reason to think She is right about God being Triune.
Hello, Brian! I have subscribed to your channel, & am a fan of your videos. Thank you for your outreach, as it is much appreciated by both myself & those who want to better understand the theological underpinnings of Christianity :) If I may ask, I believe it would be great if, in complimentary to this video explaining that God is love, and by His triune nature has a co-eternal multiplicity of persons to express this love, you can also delve into the early Synodal Church Councils expressing the Christology of the Apostle's, Nicean, Chalcedonian, and the Athanasian Christian Creeds, as they can also help us reiterate God's nature (one in being, with three distinct persons of the same essence) revealed through the New Testament; best exemplified through the Sructum Fidei that you've drawn. We are all called to be saints in our own way, and I believe having individual's like yourself in the interest of uploading RU-vid videos is an opportunity for everyone. Thank you, all the best, and hope to hear from you!
Thanks Phoenix. My goal with the videos is to, typically, introduce people to these concepts in a unique way so as to help them take a second look at a worldview that many simply bypass as if they already know it. Since I'm not really a scholar, going into those depths feels like it's outside of my calling and since there are many great resources available on those topics, my hope is that commenters like you can lead people further or that the interest that these videos sparks might inspire viewers to go deeper in their own study.
HERE ARE THE MAIN SCRIPTURAL REASONS WHY JESUS IS NOT ALMIGHTY GOD AS BEING EXPRESSIVELY THOUGHT OF IN THE EXPRESSION OF THE TRINITY: “Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,” Mark 12:29 (1) LIKE EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE JESUS WAS CREATED BY GOD AS THE BIBLE EXPLAINS CONCERNING JESUS IN RELATION TO GOD THE BIBLE SAYS OF JESUS THAT HE: “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Colossians 1:15 KJV ONLY A CREATED BEING CAN BE CONSIDERED A CREATURE (2) UNLESS WE WANT TO CALL JESUS A LIAR HE FLAT OUT TELLS US THAT HE WAS CREATED UPON RETURNING TO HIS PRE-HUMAN HEAVENLY EXISTING PLACE: “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God” Revelation 3:14 (3) IT IS SAID OF JESUS THAT: “However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name.” John 1:12 HOWEVER FROM HIS OWN POSITION IN CREATION UPON HIS RETURN TO HEAVEN THOSE THAT WILL EVENTUALLY FOLLOW WOULD BECOME HIS BROTHERS: “For it was fitting that the one for whom and through whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both the one who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all stem from one, and for this reason he is not ashamed to call them brothers,” Hebrews 2:10,11 (4) EMPHATICALLY HE EXPLAINS CONCERNING THOSE OF HIS BROTHERS WHO ARE STILL EVEN NOW REMAINING AT THIS TIME HERE ON EARTH WITH REGARDS TO HOW THEY ARE BEING TREATED BECAUSE OF THE WITNESS THEY HAVE BEEN COMMISSIONED TO RENDER TO ALL WHILE LOOKING FOR THOSE WHO WILL BE FAVORABLY DISPOSED: “In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’” Matthew 24:40 WITH THE CREATOR IT IS POSSIBLE FOR GOD TO HAVE SONS BUT VERY INCONCEIVABLE FOR HIM TO HAVE A BROTHER AS THAT WOULD MAKE THE BROTHER HIS EQUAL: “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, For I am God, and there is no one else.” Isaiah 45:22 NO WONDER THE MEANING OF THE NAME JESUS IS: [JEHOVAH IS SALVATION] (5) THEREFORE THE TRUTH CONCERNING THE UNIVERSAL FAMILY OF THE FATHER AND HIS SONS: “For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God.” Romans 8:19 (6) ALL OF THIS LEAVES NO ROOM FOR THE SON WHO ALSO IS A WORSHIPERS OF GOD TO BE THOUGHT OF IN ANY RESPECTS TO BE WORTHY OF BEING EQUALITY WORSHIPED: “The one who conquers-I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.” Revelation 3:12 (7) THEREFORE IT IS EASY TO SEE CLEARLY THAT SINCE JESUS IS A CREATION OF GOD THIS ALSO MAKES HIM A WORSHIPER OF GOD BY RECOGNIZING THAT HE HIMSELF HAVE A GOD WHO IS WORTHY OF HIS PRAYERFUL WORSHIP: “Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” John 20:17 (8) THE FIRST CENTRY FOLLOWERS OF JESUS KNEW WELL THE AUTHORITY OF HEADSHIP AS IT WAS PUT IN WRITING: “But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.” 1 Corinthians 11:3 (9) AFTER THE LIE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE MINDS OF ALL HUMANS CONCERNING OUR CREATOR WE ARE TOLD: “Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.” 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.” 1 Corinthians 15:24,28 (10) THERE IS NEVER A NEED FOR GOD TO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE ANYONE ELSE AS HIS GOD THEREFORE THE TRINITY IS NOTHING MORE THEN WHAT IS BEING SAID BY PETER WHEN REFERRING TO HOW THE VAST MAJORITY WILL TREAT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHERS: “Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:15,16 (11) THE VERY CREATION OF THE ONE WE CALL JESUS IS VIVIDLY DESCRIBED FOR US IN THE BOOK OF PROVERBS AT CHAPTER 8:22-36 AFTER READING THOSE VERSES COMPARE WHAT IS BEING TOLD TO YOU AT 1 CORINTHIANS 1:30,31 JUST IN CASE SOMEONE TRY AND TELL YOU THAT PROVERB 8 IS REFERRING TO WISDOM IN THE FACE OF THE FOREGOING WITH THE ERRONEOUSNESS TEACHINGS THAT ARE UN-SCRIPTURALLY MAKING JESUS EQUAL TO GOD IN A GODHEAD OF THREE IN ONE ALL I CAN SAY IS ONLY THE DEVIL HAS THE POWER TO MAKE ANYONE PERVERT THE MEANING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A FATHER AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A SON JUST AS WE ARE TOLD: “If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” 2 Corinthians 4:3,4 BEING THAT THE TRINITY DOCTRINE FAIL TO TEACH THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS YOU ONLY NOW CAN IMAGIN HOW WRONG IT IS CONCERNING THE HOLY SPIRIT BEING A PERSON RATHER THAN AN INTRINSIC PART OF GOD’S OWN BEING I CAN ONLY PRAYER IN JESUS NAME THAT SOME OF YOU WHO WILL OPEN YOUR BIBLES ALONG THE LINE THAT THE FOREGOING IS CLEARLY EXPLAINING WILL HAVE THE VEIL REMOVED FROM THEIR MINDS SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE YOUR VISION RESTORED WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME FOR MORE INFORMATION CONCERNING BIBLE TRUTH PLEASE VISIT JW.ORG
It's already in the Old Testament: Genesis 1 26 "And *God* said: Let *us* make man in *our* image, after *our* likeness" 🙂 Genesis 2 24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and *they shall be one* flesh" Genesis 3 22 "And the Lord *God* said, Behold, the man is become as one of *us,* to know good and evil"
I have a question? Is there any other persons in The Trinity other than The Father, The Son, and Holy Ghost? For example: Is The Burning Bush from Exodus 3, Pillar of Cloud by Day & Pillar of Cloud by Night from Exodus 13, Man that wrestled with Jacob from Genesis 32, Angelic Man that spoke with Abraham from Genesis 18, etc.. Are these included within or outside of The Trinity and do these persons of God have their own thrones and is their scriptures to back up the answer for these separate persons of God?
The Trinity doctrine is the most absurd claim ever made. Because the concept that there are 3 Gods in 1 defies logic, while contradicting the core tenets of monotheism.
3 gods in 1 does defy logic. That's why the trinity doesn't hold it. It says 3 persons who are one God. They are one in substance (divinity) and distinct in person.
The Trinity is NOT 1+1+1=1, and it certainly is not 1+1+1=3. The Trinity is more like 1 x 1 x 1= 1, or even more like Infinity x Infinity x Infinity = Infinity. To adapt a Byzantine Emperor's analogy to a Muslim envoy, consider a $5 bill. It is a single item, a single being, but it consists of five units. If you cut it up into 5 pieces, you would destroy it's value--it wouldn't be worth a single penny! This, like any metaphor, is not perfect, but it can serve to point the way. In short, we believe the Trinity and the Incarnation by Revelation, not logic. Not against logic, but over and above logic. The fact of God in the Incarnation is primary, not our stunted human reason. This is why I think the greatest academic logician of all time, St Thomas Aquinas said of all of his logical arguments, "it's all straw". Don't get Tommy wrong, straw does have value, it's necessary, but compared to greater things, it's common, dull, and limited.
The Trinity makes perfect logical sense. The issue with it is that it isn’t Biblical. Jesus never claimed to be God the Son, only the Son of God. Jesus also prayed to God. Why would God pray to God? And if Jesus’ followers knew Jesus was God, why didn’t they outright say that in the Gospels? Why would their only reference to Jesus being God be a vague and open to interpretation passage at the beginning of the Gospel of John?
The states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”-(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
I came out with this explanation for the trinity independently in the 80's while I was in the University studying Mechanical Engineering. My friend who was then studying to become a pastor brought it up for discussion. But I have lately repented of it considering the compelling evidence in the Bible about the uniqueness of the Father. For instance, if he is the Father then he must be before the Son. How can he claim to have begotten the Son on a particular day if he existed co-eternally with him? Besides he makes the Son who he is and has exalted him above every creature. No one can give to the Father as he is infinite and eternal. But the Son is made to be whoever he is by the Father, suggesting that the Son is limited. Moreover, the Son refers to the Father as the only true God. [John17:3]. God can also be seen to be LOVE eternally without the need for an eternal other person, if we envision him to have always loved himself.
4:05 "we are dealing with a god with UNLIMITED POWER" well, i pose the same question HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ? Logically ... if our knowledge by comparison to god is so limited that we cannot understand him or the trinity and therefore should not presume that the trinity cannot exist IT IS ALSO LOGICAL TO CONCLUDE that what may to us, look like unlimited power , to him is nothing more than a breath, but in reality his power has limits but we are not aware of them because we cannot comprehend those limits As an example : I'm an engineer , Electronics, computers and Networks. Now at times i do things that TO OTHERS (Lamen people) seems amazing and they don't know how i did it, but to me these things are simple just like if you ask a lamen person what is the extent of my technical ability, they would have absolutely not clue how to answer (Because they do not understand technology), by the same token , just like my power is limited by seemingly unlimited, Gods power may also be limited but to humans seemingly unlimited
I agree when you say some answers are not the kind of thing you would invent. In fact the REALLY unexpected answers have a degree of 'authenticity' about them. I will give you another - Bible based - example. One of the major ideas in Christianity is the resurrection. One would have thought, if the bible were propaganda, that THOUSANDS of people would have witnessed it. Yet according to the Bible only a few people were there at the aftermath. I always found this curious. Surely it would have been better to say 'and the multitudes witnessed this event with awe'.
When someone asks me how to make sense of the Trinity. I always refer them to a coin. A coin is one object, but has two sides. Just like God is one being, but has three distinct "sides" that He manifests Himself as. At least that is how I make sense of it.
@@leahjames6870in vs 5 Jesus says he had the same glory as the Father before the World existed. There is no problem with John 17:3, because the same book of John says Jesus is God (John 1:1), and Jesus himself says he is one with God (John 10:30) and says that they MUST honor him the same way as they honor the Father (John 5:23). Can a mere man say that they must honor him as they honor God? No, that would be blasphemy. Each person of the trinity is fully God, so it is not wrong for Jesus to say that the Father is the Only True God. There's no contradiction there, cause he repeatedly said he is God as well in other places. The Father is God unbegotten and unproceeding, the Son is the begotten God, the Spirit is the proceeding God. One nature, one essence, one divinity.
@@Iffmeister That’s not what Jesus said. He didn’t say he had the SAME glory. He said he HAD glory with The Father. Continue reading John and go down to verse 22, Jesus says: And the GLORY which thou gavest me, I have GIVEN them; that they may be one, even as we are one; Jesus having glory does not prove he is God. In John, we see that Jesus has glory AND he also has given glory to others, to the ones that The Father has given him. Nothing you’ve stated proves that Jesus is God. John 1 doesn’t prove it, nor does it prove a “trinity”. Jesus saying he is one with The Father doesn’t prove it. Jesus also prayed the same for believers. Jesus never says he is God. If he did, please provide a scripture where he does. Where he plainly states it. No one in the entire Bible was a trinitarian. No one believed such things as “one nature, essence, and divinity”. That was a much later invention. To believe that God is “3 persons” is tritheism and there’s no way out or around it.
I have a personal view on the Trinity that may not be quite acceptable to Catholics, but here goes. First, the Trinity is, strictly speaking, illogical. There is a rule of equivalence in formal logic called the Transitive Law. It goes like this: If A is equal to B, and B is equal to C, then A is equal to C. The Trinity explicitly denies this law by saying that The Father is God, and the Son is God, but the Father is not the Son. Same with the Holy Spirit. However, I think part of the point of the doctrine is that it conveys the mystery of God, as you said. It keeps us ever mindful that God is beyond mere human intellectual comprehension. But I think it also points to something else. It points to the fact that God is a unity, but unity implies plurality (everything ultimately implies its opposite). For there to be any dynamism to the universe, it must consist of separate things, yet also be one thing. I think it also implies something about our relationship to God. We are not God, but yet...here comes the hard to swallow part...we are. I AM not I AM. If God is all powerful, then everything made came from him, and must, necessarily, be of his same essence. We are made in the image of God. God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and man became a living soul. We have the spirit of Christ dwelling in us. Jesus' prayer in his final hours was that his disciples would be one as he and the Father are one, he in them, the Father in Him, and they in the Father. We are at once not God and yet we are. God is separate and infinitely far above us, the Supreme Good at which we aim and strive to attain. But God is also as near as our own breath, synonymous with the inner most part of us, our true self.
Excellent! And the same applies to truth. God is truth. And like love, truth requires relationship because of the moral dimension. Truth is not simply fact, but honest. Moral relationship only exists between persons. Therefore if God is truth, then God experiences relationship in himself.
The trinity is not a scriptural doctrine. It is a human invention. I'm all for trying to decipher the nature of the Most High, but to proclaim something as Biblical truth that isn't stated clearly in the Word is a dangerous practice. Proverbs 30:5-6 (YLT) "Every saying of God [is] tried, A shield He [is] to those trusting in Him. Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false."
Our God is a singular, self existing God, depending on no one other than Himself, to exist as GOD.....God is a "He" and NEVER a "they" and HE is The Father who sent His Son.
Actually, Greeks, Romans, and many ancient religions that came out of Babylon had 3 main gods that they made into a trinity. So if I were to think of a pagan God, I'd think of a trinity. They just had to forge the concept somehow into a One God concept to make it fit the Bible.
@@Mic1904 Hislop seems to blame basically everything on Constantine. While Constantine did play a part in putting the Roman empire on more friendly relations with Christians, it was actually Christian converts from paganism who used the philosophy of Romans and Greeks to postulate a trinity. The first trinity on record with Christianity was of God, his Son, and God's Wisdom (rather than the Holy Spirit). Sean Finnegan, a Unitarian, does a good job deconstructing the Trinitarian myth that the Church Fathers were all trinitarians, in his video "The Trinity before Nicea - 7 Early Theologians." But hey, if you want to believe in the Trinity, and you researched a ton, you have at it. We each have to answer for our own error. Whether it is eye that is wrong ewe, perhaps God will grant the ignorant forgiveness.
I used to be a Trinitarian in one of the world’s largest religious denominations for 53 years and taught and raised my own family the same for 18 years. I continued in this false teaching right up until the day God had mercy on me and sent me the Holy Spirit who led me into all the truth (John 16:13). What does the Spirit have to say about this pagan triune god called the trinity? If you have eyes to see and ears to hear, listen: “At that same time Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, and he said, “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for HIDING THESE THINGS FROM THOSE WHO THINK THEMSELVES WISE AND CLEVER, and for REVEALING THEM TO THE CHILDLIKE. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way.” (Luke 10:21) “Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will NEVER ENTER the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt. 18:3) Now, remember that show, “Are you smarter than a 5th grader”? Anyone here smarter than a 5th grader? Let’s find out. The topic is based on the doctrine of the Trinity. This doctrine declares the Godhead is triune being comprised of Father, Son and Holy Spirit who are “co-equal” with each other and “are all God”. Without being a bible scholar or having to twist scripture, this is really quite simple. Ready to play? Elementary 5th grade reading and basic 2nd grade math show us the truth of this matter; hence being like a child just like our Lord said: Open your Bible, go to the gospel of John and read the following verses for yourself: John 1:1-3. Now do the basic math. How many God beings do you count? 2 or 3? Having established that both the Father and the Son are God from what you just read, now read the following verses: John 5:17, 5:19, 5:20, 5:21, 5:22, 5:23, 5:26, 5:30, 5:36, 8:28, 12:50, 10:30, 14:6, 14:23, 14:28, 15:10, 17:3, 17:5, Rom. 1:1, Rom. 1:27, 1 Cor. 1:3, 1 Cor. 1:9, 1 Cor. 8:6-7, 1 Cor. 15:27-28, 2 Cor. 1:2-3, Eph. 1:2, 5:20, Philip. 1:2, Col. 1:3, 1 Thess. 1:3, 2 Thess. 1:2, Phil. 1:3, Heb. 1:8-13, 1 Peter 1:3, 2 Peter 1:2, 1 John 1:3, 1: John 5:20, 2 John 1:3, 2 John 1:9, Rev. 3:12, 7:10, 21:22-23. Now do the basic math. How many God beings do you count? 2 or 3? Those who consider themselves wise or smarter than a 5th grader, tell me, where in this world does 1 + 1 =3? The Spirit can keep going on with many more verses just like this. If you have the humility to be honest with yourself and what you just read, you will see the plain truth and the trinity doctrine is debunked. If the Holy Spirit was in fact God, why was he left out of all those verses? What happened to being co-equal? Little children truly believe in Santa Claus in all sincerity up until the day they discover the ugly truth of the matter, right? This isn’t any different. Why anyone continue to believe in a lie after the preponderance of overwhelming evidence? So now that you have read and seen the truth for yourself, do you still believe in the false trinity doctrine or are you not smarter than a 5th grader? If you failed this test, go to your Bible and read John 8:47. Another biblical fact: Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Holy Spirit is God. Nowhere! Christ also said, “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). Clearly Christ by his very statement said they are NOT co-equal? This totally scotches the doctrine of the trinity that claims the Father, Son and Spirit are co-equal. Who would dare call Christ a liar? Sheer foolishness! How can anyone believe in the false doctrine of the trinity after reading the gospel of John? The gospel of John and other books of the Bible clearly testify that the doctrine of the triune god is a lie (John 1:1-3). The word “trinity” isn’t even written anywhere in the Bible, why would anyone believe it? The world foolishly says about the Spirit of God that he is “God the Spirit”. Christ tells us that “God IS spirit” (John 4:24). Do you see how foolish this is already? Why does God need a Spirit if he already IS spirit? It is the Spirit of God. The word “OF” being paramount as the Spirit belongs to God and Christ; the word “OF” denotes possession/ownership. They own it and they sent it (John 16:15) Don’t know who the Holy Spirit is? Simple, read John 1:51 and Hebrews 1:7, 1:14, and Psalm 104:4. There is our Helper in plain sight yet most are so blinded by the years of false teaching and lies they can’t see the truth. Angel of the Lord, Angel of God, Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit = Holy Spirit. Paul cautioned us about false humility and the worship of angles (Col. 2:18). The Holy Spirit warned John twice in the Book of Revelation that he should not be worshiped (Rev. 19:10, 22:8-9). Let’s really simplify this: If a fallen angel is a demon spirit that belongs to Satan, then an angel of God can only be what? A Holy Spirit because he belongs to God who is holy (Lev. 11:44, 1 Peter 1:16). Think about it, if the Holy Spirit is a single 3rd person of the Godhead, how is it even possible we can we all have it? See how foolish this is already? Do I get the Holy Spirit today and borrow him to you tomorrow? How foolish this world’s wisdom is. The answer is found again in Matthew 18:10 for it is written: “Beware that you don't look down on any of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven THEIR ANGELS are always in the presence of my heavenly Father.” (Matt. 18:10). The words “their angels” (Holy Spirit) shows ownership. The Holy Spirit for each one of us was not sent until Christ came into his glory (John 7:39). Let the Bible explain itself, it's quite simple and straightforward. The teaching is very simple without having to twist scripture and believe in something that just isn't there like the word “trinity”. Biblical truth is based on the word of God. It’s time to unlearn one of the greatest lies of so called “modern Christianity”. Believe in what Christ said and taught. Believe in what is actually and clearly written in the word of God and not in the invented mythology or eisegesis of men. Get this, if you are worshiping the pagan invented god known as the “trinity”, you will never, ever receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:32) as you are breaking the 1st Commandment. “that their hearts may be encouraged, being KNIT together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, BOTH of the FATHER AND OF CHRIST, IN WHOM are hidden ALL the treasures of WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE.” (Col. 2:2-3 NKJV). Whom has ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge as you just read? The Father and Christ. How many God beings do you count? 2 or 3? Lay down your pride and what you think you know about God and the Bible and unlearn the lies. Repent and let God teach you. Unless you become like a child, you will never enter the Kingdom of God. Forget what you think you know as the Lord has sent me to reveal the simplicity of his teaching in spirit and truth. Now let’s read Proverbs 30:4 together: “Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is HIS name, and what is HIS SON’S name, If you know? Now, how many God beings do you count? 2 or 3? “Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His word., Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.” (Pro. 30:5-6) The word “trinity” is added to His word. Who is the liar? If today you hear his voice, harden not your heart! Repent for the Kingdom of God is near!
Dear Brian, I am a monotheist Christian but who believe in the Trinity too. But I believe that in the last centuries Christian leaders misunderstood the notion of Trinity. What I understood is that 3 "persons" equals 3 "beings" which is polytheist in my understanding. Now God is One! Yet the Logos and the Holy Spirit are not 2 dofferent persons of the Heavenly Father even though they are not the same. No I am not a Sabellianist. I will explain what I do mean. God created the universe and what is beyond it through his Word (Logos in Greek), and thenword Logos also denotes some sort of a "creating mind", the expression of God's "mind" so to speak. The Holy Spirit is God's ''spirit". Now the Holy Spirit is not simply some sort of force of God like what Jehovah Witnesses claims. But the personhood of God exist in the Logos and the HS. The Logos is through which God created the world and while He breather life and sanctify through the HS. About God being Love. First what is meant is God's sharing power. And even though the Universe is finite with a beginning. Couldn't God create universe after universe after universe ? After all, if there is no Universe, there is no work for the Logos. But God is always working. And about Jesus' praying to God. He is 100% man too. Menaing that Jesus's human nature prayed to God. I hope that was clear!! God bless you brother!
Rusher Does Games Mormons ? Seriously ? They are the most polytheist group in history. They claim that everyone can become a god and that there are infinite number of gods!!
Mormons follow one God. For a group to be polytheist, it has to worship two or more gods. Mormons believe that we can become Gods/gods as long as we do everything needed to be given that role from the God we worship. Most Christians don't do anything to earn being a God/god so your statement about everyone can become a god is wrong. Mormons believe that the God we know has a god & that god has his own god but we don't worship these other gods nor do we worship any other god on earth. Mormons do however use what I believe to be a man made name for God. I'm a Christist Mormon which is a more hardliner form of Mormonism. Unlike mainline Mormons & other Christian groups, we don't allow LGBT people in & we will put them to death, if they are members somehow they can ask for the ruling of the president who can overturn, uphold or lower the payment of a sin.
The way I see the holy Trinity is think if god like you (after all, we are all created in gods image) You have many different identities, a Daughter/son, a friend, a brother/sister, etc. all of these make up you.
The Triune God is literally perfect in every way. God is love could only be possible if God exists in more then one Person, “3 Persons” Father, Son, Holy Spirit are 3 in Persons but 1 essence, nature, being 1 God. It’s like our way of saying “We are One” for a company event or a slogan for a charity. We don’t think of this as a contradiction because we understand that we understand this in different senses. Same with the Triune God when we say that God is 3 and 1 because we mean it in different senses. No contradiction here only perfection that for all eternity God existed in a set of living loving relationships so therefore God didn’t need anything nor is dependent upon anyone in order to express and experience love since it already existed for all eternity within the Trinity. We are here because God is love “Triune” and out of love God created us! Glory to the perfect God!
"The Truth About God: Is the Trinity True or False?" Please click on the link below to watch and understand the biblical teachings: ⬇️⬇️⬇️ ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hKh0SPB5cjw.html
HERE ARE THE MAIN SCRIPTURAL REASONS WHY JESUS IS NOT ALMIGHTY GOD AS BEING EXPRESSIVELY THOUGHT OF IN THE EXPRESSION OF THE TRINITY: “Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,” Mark 12:29 (1) LIKE EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE JESUS WAS CREATED BY GOD AS THE BIBLE EXPLAINS CONCERNING JESUS IN RELATION TO GOD THE BIBLE SAYS OF JESUS THAT HE: “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Colossians 1:15 KJV ONLY A CREATED BEING CAN BE CONSIDERED A CREATURE (2) UNLESS WE WANT TO CALL JESUS A LIAR HE FLAT OUT TELLS US THAT HE WAS CREATED UPON RETURNING TO HIS PRE-HUMAN HEAVENLY EXISTING PLACE: “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God” Revelation 3:14 (3) IT IS SAID OF JESUS THAT: “However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name.” John 1:12 HOWEVER FROM HIS OWN POSITION IN CREATION UPON HIS RETURN TO HEAVEN THOSE THAT WILL EVENTUALLY FOLLOW WOULD BECOME HIS BROTHERS: “For it was fitting that the one for whom and through whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both the one who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all stem from one, and for this reason he is not ashamed to call them brothers,” Hebrews 2:10,11 (4) EMPHATICALLY HE EXPLAINS CONCERNING THOSE OF HIS BROTHERS WHO ARE STILL EVEN NOW REMAINING AT THIS TIME HERE ON EARTH WITH REGARDS TO HOW THEY ARE BEING TREATED BECAUSE OF THE WITNESS THEY HAVE BEEN COMMISSIONED TO RENDER TO ALL WHILE LOOKING FOR THOSE WHO WILL BE FAVORABLY DISPOSED: “In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’” Matthew 24:40 WITH THE CREATOR IT IS POSSIBLE FOR GOD TO HAVE SONS BUT VERY INCONCEIVABLE FOR HIM TO HAVE A BROTHER AS THAT WOULD MAKE THE BROTHER HIS EQUAL: “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, For I am God, and there is no one else.” Isaiah 45:22 NO WONDER THE MEANING OF THE NAME JESUS IS: [JEHOVAH IS SALVATION] (5) THEREFORE THE TRUTH CONCERNING THE UNIVERSAL FAMILY OF THE FATHER AND HIS SONS: “For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God.” Romans 8:19 (6) ALL OF THIS LEAVES NO ROOM FOR THE SON WHO ALSO IS A WORSHIPERS OF GOD TO BE THOUGHT OF IN ANY RESPECTS TO BE WORTHY OF BEING EQUALITY WORSHIPED: “The one who conquers-I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.” Revelation 3:12 (7) THEREFORE IT IS EASY TO SEE CLEARLY THAT SINCE JESUS IS A CREATION OF GOD THIS ALSO MAKES HIM A WORSHIPER OF GOD BY RECOGNIZING THAT HE HIMSELF HAVE A GOD WHO IS WORTHY OF HIS PRAYERFUL WORSHIP: “Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” John 20:17 (8) THE FIRST CENTRY FOLLOWERS OF JESUS KNEW WELL THE AUTHORITY OF HEADSHIP AS IT WAS PUT IN WRITING: “But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.” 1 Corinthians 11:3 (9) AFTER THE LIE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE MINDS OF ALL HUMANS CONCERNING OUR CREATOR WE ARE TOLD: “Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.” 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.” 1 Corinthians 15:24,28 (10) THERE IS NEVER A NEED FOR GOD TO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE ANYONE ELSE AS HIS GOD THEREFORE THE TRINITY IS NOTHING MORE THEN WHAT IS BEING SAID BY PETER WHEN REFERRING TO HOW THE VAST MAJORITY WILL TREAT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHERS: “Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:15,16 (11) THE VERY CREATION OF THE ONE WE CALL JESUS IS VIVIDLY DESCRIBED FOR US IN THE BOOK OF PROVERBS AT CHAPTER 8:22-36 AFTER READING THOSE VERSES COMPARE WHAT IS BEING TOLD TO YOU AT 1 CORINTHIANS 1:30,31 JUST IN CASE SOMEONE TRY AND TELL YOU THAT PROVERB 8 IS REFERRING TO WISDOM IN THE FACE OF THE FOREGOING WITH THE ERRONEOUSNESS TEACHINGS THAT ARE UN-SCRIPTURALLY MAKING JESUS EQUAL TO GOD IN A GODHEAD OF THREE IN ONE ALL I CAN SAY IS ONLY THE DEVIL HAS THE POWER TO MAKE ANYONE PERVERT THE MEANING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A FATHER AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A SON JUST AS WE ARE TOLD: “If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” 2 Corinthians 4:3,4 BEING THAT THE TRINITY DOCTRINE FAIL TO TEACH THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS YOU ONLY NOW CAN IMAGIN HOW WRONG IT IS CONCERNING THE HOLY SPIRIT BEING A PERSON RATHER THAN AN INTRINSIC PART OF GOD’S OWN BEING I CAN ONLY PRAYER IN JESUS NAME THAT SOME OF YOU WHO WILL OPEN YOUR BIBLES ALONG THE LINE THAT THE FOREGOING IS CLEARLY EXPLAINING WILL HAVE THE VEIL REMOVED FROM THEIR MINDS SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE YOUR VISION RESTORED WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME FOR MORE INFORMATION CONCERNING BIBLE TRUTH PLEASE VISIT JW.ORG
The Trinity was never suppose to be this exact and only view of God's divine nature but an example of His divine nature shared with all. He said I Am, so as to teach us that what He has to give was never meant to be only His but shared with all. Unlike pagan gods they only require whereas the One God only gives!
Excellent! A true living mystery! One way to define 'mystery' is "Shut the mouth." f[rom Greek mysterion (usually in plural mysteria) "secret rite or doctrine," from mystes "one who has been initiated," from myein "to close, shut" (see mute (adj.)); perhaps referring to the lips (in secrecy) The observation that men can define god runs afoul of making an image of god. How does one circumscribe the infinite? In a sense, the Son allows for that, the intimacy of limitation, of the sacrifice of limitation, of the immediacy of love...
As far as the whole "three-in-one" thing goes; the human subconscious is divided into the Id, Ego, and Super-Ego. So forget about asking how GOD is doing that; how are YOU doing that?
@@leahjames6870in that same verse Jesus says he had glory with the Father alongside him (17:5). Jesus also says he is God in John 8:58 and John 10:30.
During my time in the evangelic-lutheran chruch shool, It was explained to me like this; Water. God is like water, there are diffrent forms in the teaching of trinity. The father is the water, when the water is frozen it is snow, Snow could be Jesus. When water gets hot and boils, it becomes steam- Steam is the holy spirit. (and we all know the basic chemistry how these exchange with each other). I was an atheist back then but I had no counter-argument to this. It is easy to understand, and I appreciate the teachings of my pastor, even though I have only understood them since I graduated. Im now an evangelic Lutheran. But I had a thick atheist skull back then.
@@dalesajdak422 I guess you are right, never paid much attention to that. I never noticed that in order for the logic to work in the explanation, they nearly never exist at the same time. I think that trinity is just what you there described. Thanks!
Very interesting. While I am not Catholic (or a Trinitarian) this explained very well your beliefs. I have always loved Stephens account of The father WITH the Son on the right hand of the father in Acts 7. Are you saying they are 3 beings with one purpose God at the center? I'm respectfully curious and a little confused. Thanks
Brian Holdsworth thank you for taking time to reply. I'm referring to Acts 7 verse 55. I'm confused by how Stephen saw God and Jesus at the right hand of God. I have a very strong testimony of Christ as the only Begotten Son of God and my Savior. I appreciate your channel so much. Please don't think I am trying to offend
I'm not offended at all. Again, they are distinct from each other as individual persons, so they could be perceived separately. There is also the fact that Christ is human where as God the Father and the Holy Spirit are spirit.
I'm not sure I understand your question. I was pointing out the additional information (fact) that Jesus (the Son) is incarnate as a human which is another way that he can be perceived separately from the Father. I wasn't trying to claim that the Father or the Holy Spirit are abstract, although in a manner of speaking, I suppose that could be considered correct since they are not material.
No it’s not. God is love not because you think he’s triune but because he shows it in every way. God is also Almighty, Wise and Just. He perfectly reflects his 4 main qualities. It’s really got nothing to do with the trinity.
The Tanakh (Old Testament) in Hebrew talks of three persons in one God too. YHWH, Angel of YHWH and the Ghost of YHWH. It was the Angel of YHWH who spoke to Moses from the burning bush not YHWH. There are a multitude of examples of this and even ancient Hebrews talked of the three headed God, etc. and that YHWH created the Universe through the Ghost of YHWH and the word (Logos) of YHWH who was there with YHWH from before the dawn of time.
Nature or substance in material creatures refers to the general nature (the species) or the particular nature (the individual). Humans are consubstantial insofar as each of us is human, but being composed of matter, each of us also has a particular nature not shared with other humans. Spirits, however, have no matter to distinguish them, so for each angelic nature there is but one angel, and the species-individual distinction is meaningless. Now God is Infinite and the Author of all categories, so He Himself cannot be categorized. However, we can speak analogically of His Nature or Substance, Which is Absolutely One, with no distinctions*. Except we do distinguish between the Persons, not as being different beings in one species as humans are, but Each Person being the Nature/Substance - it is true of Each Person that He is God and there is no other. The Persons are distinguished not by having different matter but by Their Relationships - the Father begets, the Son is begotten, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from Both. (These Relationships are also the Same as the Nature.)
I'm confused every religion has a book that they consider it holy and get their fundamentals from it, when it comes to Christians they never use the Bible! But emotions and stories
In christianity, the Church existed before the "book". The Church is the people NOT an inanimate object called a 'Bible". The Catholic Church created the "book" known as the christian Bible in 382AD before Mohammed was born. Therefore within christianity only the Catholic Church has the authority to interpret the Bible because it is a Catholic book. The "book" accompanies/assists the Church in its mission but if all the christian Bibles were burned and the internet was fried, we would still have the Church.
@@DePeaceHunter Your church is also led by humans and if you don't belong to a church you are led by yourself. You think the davidic kingdoms were a "every man for himself" deal?" No, there was an established hierarchy, people can't just be doing as they please. Jesus as the Son of David established a new Davidic kingdom, He is the King and the. Pope is His steward/vizier. No other church can claim this and they have no documented history linking back to Matthew 16 only the CC. From conception the Church was an OFFICIAL sect within Judaism. When you read Acts 1 and if you are familiar with Halakhah Law you will immediately notice that the Church is a legal entity WITHIN Judaism. There are 3 requirements which are met. Firstly, notice that there are 120 members in this synagogue. Why is this important? It is the exact number of persons in the Halakhah regulations to form a full fledged synagogue. Secondly next according to Halakhah regulations there must be a "beit din" (Hebrew court) formed. We see that there is a beit din and it draws lots and Matthias a disciple is chosen to take over Judas bishopric (episkopen). The first example of Apostolic Succession. So two of the three requirements are met. The third requirement is that there must be a NASI (prince/temporal) and an AB (father/spiritual) appointed. Curiously Peter is filling both these positions in this beit din. Why? In 190 BC the Kohan Gadol (high priest office) fell into apostasy and beit din gadol cast a vote of no confidence splitting the two offices of the kohan gadol into the "nasi" and the "ab" within the Beit Din Gadol. Fast forward to Matt16, in this new Beit Din Gadol (70 disciples) Christ has placed His confidence in Peter (the first AB/father/pope meaning papa) by presenting him the Keys to the temple and bringing the two offices back together the way it originally was. The pope has both temporal and spiritual powers. Peter is the NASI prince of the apostles and the AB/pope (Pope meaning papa - meaning father) as you see even today the pope as Peters documented unbroken apostolic successor is both ‘nasi’ and the ‘ab’ in Catholicism. Christ appointed Peter as His steward with the keys as per Isaiah 22 vs 19-24 and Matt16. Peter is First amongst equals. In the Davidic kingdoms there was always an al-bayith (steward), that is Peters role. Christ also renames Peter (the only Apostle renamed) as Abraham and Jacob were renamed by God in preparation for their specific role in salvation history. Peter's successors (Popes) are first amongst equals ie bishops who make up the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. First book of Kings lists all the Kings and it always has the royal steward/vizier listed next to the King as well because in the absence of the King he was in charge of the Kingdom. The steward is given the sash/robes/keys to the temple because the role is also a priestly role. The steward would wear the keys around his neck so the citizens of the davidic kingdoms knew who he was. (Rashi/Jewish sage writes a commentary on the priestly role of the steward/vizier and the Keys are the keys of the temple and government). Jesus presents the keys to Peter (Pope/ab) and appoints him/his successors as His royal steward to care for HIs flock until His return. The 120 is the Knesset HaGadolah which was supposed to be restored in the Olam Haba. Judaism and Catholicism was born on Shavuot/Pentecost.
@@DePeaceHunter but they claim that the Popes and Fathera are infallible. That's the reason why the corrupted view is also entertained as the teachings of Jesus (which clearly is not)
What do you do when your free will leads you to make bad choices? I’m sorry you felt blackmailed by people claiming to be Christian. Salvation is for all. Consider loving your neighbor as yourself, in all that you do, and you won’t be led astray.
@@jpupp If you make wrong choices, you just repent and turn your heart to God again. Our free will also leads us to make good choices. God set before us life and death, blessing and curse, that we might choose life. Therefore, we have free will so that we can love and serve God by our own choice. May He bless you.
The churchfathers couldn't figure out that the Father - who is a spirit ("God is a spirit") - is inside Jesus and simply is called "Holy Spirit" by Him (see the Jesus' sermon about the TWO blasphemies - directed to Son and Father - where the Father was called "Holy Spirit"). The Father - who is a spirit - helped Jesus in the desert and also later when speaking. Thus no third person exists.
Catholic theology uses “nature” to describe what a living being can do, and “person” to describe who the living being is. John tells us that “God is love.” Love requires a lover and a beloved, a giver and a receiver, a subject and an object. The only one who can be the fitting object of the absolute fullness of God’s love is someone who is exactly like him, the one “through whom he created the universe, who is the refulgence of his glory, the very imprint of his being, and who sustains all things by his mighty word.” (Hebrews 1:2-3) That is why that one is called the “only-begotten” son of God. The Father’s love for the Son and the Son's return of that love to the Father is personified as the Holy Spirit. Because the divine nature is infinite in every way, there can only be one divine nature. Infinity cannot be divided. So each of the divine persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, have the divine nature (the infinite capabilities) in all its fullness. Thus each of the three divine persons are fully God. That is how three separate persons can be one God. The Father did not become incarnate, nor did the Holy Spirit, only the Son. Each is a separate person, while all having the same nature.
To even question "the Trinity" is like lighting a fuse. Someone's bound to explode with anger and accusations like "cult" and "heretic." But being mortal as we are, we don't "get" what it's like to be spirit and are poorly qualified to explain spiritual things. However: in scripture we can we can find plenty of evidence *against* a trinity. ▬ Most New Testament letters begin with greetings such as "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ." All these greetings *_include both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ._* But *_none of them includes the holy spirit._* Not one of them mentions or includes or addresses the holy spirit as a person. Can we be open-minded enough to consider this as evidence that the apostles - the writers of these letters - did *not* believe the holy spirit was a third person? ▬ John 14:23 shines much-needed light on the topic. Here Jesus explains that both He and the Father would come and dwell in us. *They - the two - would make their "abode" in us:* ⚫ "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23) Jesus said He and the Father would dwell in is. Obviously that's two, not three. ⚫ "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (1 Cor 8:6) Again, it's two: the Father and the Lord Jesus. [It's interesting to note the similarity between this verse, and others which show creation of all things was directed (re: "of whom") by the Father . . . and was executed (re: "by whom") -by or through Jesus. Compare to Eph 3:9, Hebrews 1:1,2 and Col 1:16; only the Father and Jesus are in these verses as well. "And we by him"??? Creation is *still* in process by or through Jesus. Through Jesus sons and daughters for the Fathers eternal family are being created, right now, as they abide in Him.] The two - the Father and Jesus - function as one. Jesus said: ⚫ "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30) Again, that's two -"I and my Father" . . . no mention of a third person. "God is a spirit" (John 4:24) and is holy. When we have the holy spirit in us, we have God the Father and Jesus dwelling in us -just as Jesus said in John 14:23: " . . . and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." Now notice Romans 8:9: the "Spirit of God" and the "Spirit of Christ" both dwell in us (not some sort of third/other person): ⚫ "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" ▬ We see God as "us" back in Genesis: ⚫ "And God said, Let *us* make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." (Gen 1:26) Who are the "us"? The Father and Jesus, as we saw earlier in 1 Cor 8:6 where creation was directed by the Father and executed by Jesus. Here are additional examples: ⚫ "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Hebrews 1:1,2) ⚫ "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ" (Eph 3:9). ▬ Who are the "us"? It is the Father, and the "Word" who was *with* God from the beginning . . . And *was* God . . . and *was made flesh:* Jesus. ⚫ "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him [just like the "by him" we saw back in 1 Cor 8:6] and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-3) ⚫ "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14) Here's another example of "us" in Genesis: ⚫ "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of *us,* to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:" (Gen 3:22). ▬ Although the Father and Jesus are "one," they seemingly can have separate identity or person: ⚫ "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (John 17:5) What about the favorite trinitarian verses? ▬ 1 John 5:7-8 has questionable origin. Look up the "Johannine Comma" ("comma" referring to the phrase in 1 John 5:7,8) to get the detail on that. 1 John 5:7-8 is apparently not found in the majority of early Greek texts, but appears in later Latin texts . . . causing great controversy back in the early 1500s. ▬ Matthew 28:19 is also questionable: ⚫ "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" Why is it questionable? Because what the apostles actually *did* was baptize *in Jesus' name only:* ⚫ "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38) ⚫ "(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)" (Acts 8:16) ⚫ "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." (Acts 10:48) ⚫ "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." (Acts 19:5) ⚫ "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Romans 6:3)
If we're not smart enough to make "sense" of God then why do we insist on trying? Why do we slice & dice one God into three and call it One? The Trinity makes perfect sense (to me anyhow) as a hybrid of mono- & polytheism.
there is not, and never exists and never will exist, a single person on the planet earth who can explain the inexplicable paganism camouflaged as monotheism. simply GOD's religion purpose is guiding humanity not confusing it. Just that simple.
The Godhead and Godhood Christians do love their spiritual jargon, especially when it is has the epic overtones of the King James Version. Jargon is only useful when we properly know what it means. One such theological word found in and popularised by the KJV is “godhead.” The problem I have with it is that it is used synonymously for the Holy Trinity. As far scripture is concerned it isn’t. The word “godhead” appears only three times in the KJV at Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20 and Colossians 2:9. [1]The word is from Middle English and means the same as godhood, that is, the state of being god. The -head suffix is the same as -hood which we still use in modern English in words like fatherhood, the state of being a father. [2]Three different Koine Greek words, theion, theiotēs, and theotēs, in order of their appearance in the KJV, were translated as “godhead”. Modern translations of the Bible do not use godhead but tend to use words like deity, the divine nature, or divine being depending on the context. The Greeks used such words to talk about god without referring to any specific one in particular. This particularly makes sense in Acts 17 at the Areopagus where Paul was addressing a Greek audience and presenting his arguments on the true nature of God. Even in somewhat formal English today we refer to God in sort of an impersonal manner by calling him the Deity. So where did this association with the Trinity come from? On account of the continued popularity of the KJV, the word “godhead” continues to stay in currency. The word was actually introduced into English translations by John Wycliffe, the great English Bible translator and Reformer. [3]As early as the 12th century B.B. Warfield remarks that it was used as a technical term used to refer to the ousia or the substance of God in the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Since this predated Wycliffe it was probably an influence on why in his translation of the New Testament the term. It was chosen because of its Trinitarian connotations. The KJV was heavily influenced by Wycliffe’s why is why the godhead was probably used in the translation. Its popularity continued in later documents like Thirty-Nine articles of the Church of England and the Westminster confession. Even though godhead is used to refer to Trinitarian doctrine, in the KJV it is used to translate words that have nothing to do with later theological developments. Even the basic meaning of the word is not Trinitarian and just means being divine. I fully recognise the meaning of a word is determined by how it is used and the word has for a long time assumed that technical theological meaning. All I am saying is whenever we pick up the KJV and read the word, we should not immediately assume it is a reference to the Trinity
Jesus debunks the Trinity by saying the Father is greater than I and I do nothing of my own authority but whatever I hear from my Father. Apostle Paul in his letters to the churches would greet the saints in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ but not the Holy Spirit. If Jesus was begotten then he had a beginning but the Father was not begotten. As far as God is love, when he begat Jesus long before everything else existed there was love, love between Father and Son.
How it "works" is beyond our understanding. The best answer I can give you is to look at our Lord Jesus Christ in the Bible, how He acts and communicates towards God.
Brian didn't really explain anything. Also, I don't find correct the one argument he finally made, that since God's principle quality is love, he couldn't have ever been alone, but must have always had other persons to love. One's loving nature isn't dependent on others. A man could lose his longtime wife in death. He can still feel love for her, even if she is not around to receive and inspire that love. A person stuck on an island all alone can still by their nature be a loving person, even if they must wait many years to express that love. An unmarried woman is capable of love long before she meets her future partner. If she wasn't already capable of love she wouldn't suddenly gain that ability when she meets someone. She already has it as part of her nature. If all others somehow suddenly ceased to exist, would God lose his ability to feel love that very instant? If this very obviously wrong analogy is the best explanation Brian can come up with, then the concept is on very shaky ground. If something doesn't make sense, then it couldn't have come about by understanding something from the Bible. It must merely be a doctrine of men. Why devise such a construct? Because they really wanted to believe Jesus was God even though his Father Jehovah already was God. That's why they came up with this weird duality. The holy spirit wasn't even added until much later after Nicaea. www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20091101/myth-god-is-a-trinity/
Men have made up a word to call God something he never called himself “triune” I may not understand the trinity but I know God never called himself three. God bless you🙏
High Five Cryptoctopus- For a scholarly analysis of this, check out chapter 7 of J.C. O'Neill's 1995 book "Who did Jesus think He Was?" I think the entire text is viewable at Google Books. For a fun and instructive Bible study, type "The Angel of the LORD" into your favorite Bible software (Logos, Accordance, Biblehub.com, BlueletterBible.com,etc.) This "messenger of YHWH" is not like anyone else. He is distinct from YHWH yet He receives worship and blesses people. At times (read the account of Gidean in the book of Judges) the biblical writers are intentionally vague about "which YHWH" is in view. In Exodus 23:20-21, YHWH says that He will send an angel before the israelites in whom is His Name. This "angel" is identified as Jesus in Jude 1:5. Yet in Isaiah 42:8, YHWH says that he does not give his name, his glory to another. Add to that the fact that "no one has seen God except the one who came down from Heaven" yet "Yahweh is often seen in the Old Testament, particularly with the Patriarchs.
God is not complex. Divine realities are too simple for complex minds. The Trinity is not God, but a way in which we try to understand God. In this, I think it's helpful to look at us as a unit too, for whereas there are billions of persons there's only one humanity. From this perspective it's not difficult to conceive that there are three persons and only one divinity. The challenging question question to me would be "why only three persons", that we could precede by the just slightly less challenging one of "why only one divinity".
I hear 2 sides saying that Jesus is literally god the one who created everything or they r 2 different ppl. I wanna believe the truth but I don’t know which one is and I’m sad and lost abt it. Plz help me :(
Learn about the council of Nicea. Read On The Incarnation, by St. Athanasius. Or, for something a bit easier, CS Lewis has a chapter about the Trinity in Mere Christianity.
In 5:25 you state that father and son exchange love through the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is just a means of communication, not god. That can be applied to what the Holy Spirit generally does. It is god's way to give love to everyone, be it through revelation or enlightenment or epiphany. Also what makes god, as he revailed himself to Abraham or Moses, different from Jesus and not worthy to be in the holy trinidy??? Is jesus superior to the other ways god revails himself and is he not just one of them? In my mind, god is what in the holy trinidy is called 'the father'. Anything else is just a means of communication.
The Holy Spirit, as His name indicates, is Holy in virtue of His origin, His spiration; now holiness resides in the will. the Father and the Son love one another from all eternity, with a perfect ineffable love; the Spirit is God's love, the eternal manifestation of God's own affection for Himself.. This is why St Augustine gave the analogy of the Father as the lover, the Son as the beloved, and the Holy Spirit as the love between the Father and the Son.
> Is God just a blob that transforms into 3 different people? No, that's not what the doctrine of the Trinity describes. > Where does the Bible mention the trinity Where does it say the doctrine of the Trinity is not true?
Trinity is not really that bad--- it is just 3 aspects of GOD. There is no worship of IDOLS--- so no idol worship. GOD is ONE. The word ONE has three letters---- but ONE is still ONE ---- even though it has 3 letters. That way 1 in 3 , and 3 in 1 is ok.
When talking about the Holy Trinity, Muslims usually say that it's too complex or that it doesn't make sense, as if God had to be simple and be perfectly understood by our limited mortal minds. That would be like asking your cat to understand quantum physics. God has revealed himself to us this way and Christianity just accepts it.
we dont criticise what is beyond reason but what is against reason. and this critisim is based on biblical evidence and the doctrine itself to name a few.
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:3 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Corinthians 14:33 "Father... This is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent" John 17:1-3 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." Revelation 17:5
No muslims said trinity is too complex. We do however think it's illogical or against sound reason. It's logical impossibility. I have come to conclusion that those who believe in it has thrown away their logic and only use their faith. So It is useless to angage with them.
Do not try to explain God. God is. God has revealed Himself in scripture in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. All play their part in the redemption of fallen mankind. The non believer will always question and reject what the scriptures teach. So what. We believe it to be true by a God given faith and we know it is true personally because God's Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. Can we prove it? No. Do we doubt it? No. God is real and He reveals Himself to Faith. When we think that we can explain God, then what we have is not God, because God cannot be explained by the natural mind.
3:12 sound logic, Except for this ... The bible states at various points (and i won't cite them all) "Every knee will bow and every tounge confess" Meaning... it will not be beyond us but instead it will be self evident (Self evident being a figure of speech for plainly obvious) i can accept that there are creatures out there not of this earth that we cannot comprehend and perhaps we are the dumbest species in the universe which may also be reason as to why no one (aliens) has come to earth to say hi (we are certainly not the only one's in the universe) AND THIS NOW BEGS A VERY INTERESTING POINT so even though i accept that we are likely not smart enough to grasp everything , we still have the inaccuracy of the bible (at least what it states) but then there is this God created the heavens and the earth he then goes on in detail about how he populated it with all manner of beasts so.. he created the planets and all planets and stars BUT THE BIBLE MAKES NO REFERENCE TO GOD CREATING ALIENS ON OTHER PLANETS so here is food for thought Scenario 1 - God creates everything and earth and populates only earth THE PROBLEM : Why create multiple universes and planets if you only plan to populate 1 of them ? Scenario 2 - God creates everything and earth and populates earth and all other planets THE PROBLEM : it is not mentioned in the bible PROBLEM 2 - If the bible is god's word, WHY IS IT NOT MENTIONED ? PROBLEM 3 - is there therefore a bible for each planet with beings on it to give them the word of god if so.. is it the same word PROBLEM 4 - This would then prove the bible inaccurate because it makes no mention of creating aliens. and we know that ALL THINGS COME FROM GOD strange that god would not go into any detail as to what exists on other planets
@@BrianHoldsworth i know what it is , but the obvious question is how will it be revealed to all if "supposedly " we are not smart enough to understand it
