I studied music tech for 4 years, and after a long break from music production, I decided to get a refresher. Your video is exactly what I needed, added bonus that you are a Logic user too. I look forward to checking out the rest of your content!
You have resolved a battle I've had with this particular song I'm working on that has lasted MONTHS!!! I love you I love you I frickin love you dude!!! ❤🔥 I'm subbing and donating
Good walk through. But there is one detail I'm missing: I have seen many translate gain staging/ normalization @ eg. - 12dBFS meaning that you should record/track to peak level @-12dB, but if you do so, you loose some dynamic range because the noise floor is constant. I always track to approx - 3dB and in the edit process reduce the gain to - 12dB. By that I also reduce the noise floor by 9dB, thus gaining 9dB dynamic range compared to just tracking to - 12dB
Some good info on here, some not so good info. It’s a lot easier to use clip gain in logic than using the gain plug-in. Why use an additional plug-in on every single track when you can just select them all and turn them all down at once to give you some headroom? Also -12dbfs on the stereo output is way more than you need. Each plug-in has its own sweet spot with regards to how hot you hit it. If you stereo bus type plugins at -12dB you’ll probably not be hitting them close to the sweet spot. If you’re going for a super clinical sound I think it’s good advice, but generally speaking most plugins know people will be hitting them hot and they’re designed for that (again this is a generalization like the one you made). Also if I’m real honest you don’t need to worry about gain staging or clipping the output too much in a floating environment like all modern DAWs. I think this video is ok for beginners who are learning the basics of gain staging but I think there’s some misleading information and this workflow is a bit of a waste of time. Sorry just my honest opinions. Also in this video there’s lots of audible distortion on your voice. Shoulda gain staged your mic pre or watch your amount of limiting on the output 😂 Just busting your chops man, don’t give up, keep doing your thing.
Thanks for the detailed reply! And thanks for watching! You made some good points! The gain plugin isn't necessary on every plugin -- that's for sure! You're totally spot on with the distortion in my voice haha, I didn't do a good job in post on the microphone! Implementing this workflow takes a little time, but it gives better audio results down the line. Also, IMO -12dbfs leaves a good amount of headroom for the mix and master. I'm not gonna be obsessive about getting the out bus to sit under that range the whole time, but it's a great ballpark range to aim for! I'm curious, what dbfs range are you shooting for on a stereo out? BTW, I just took a look at your channel! Keep up the good work man! Love the videos.
Hey bro, I run a pretty heavy mix bus and also mix into a limiter. Also, my mix IS my master. I definitely consider how much level I run into each plug-in on the master bus… whatever sounds right is how loud it ends up being. Being conscientious about how much you’re loading level into a plug-in with regards to what it sounds like is the most important thing imho. Some food for thought. There are no rules, only what sounds good.
He assumes that your tracks are not well recorded, too low, too loud, and the solution is to apply offline dsp in the gain stage to get them to level where they would mix together without using large fader moves and not overload mix bus. Sure, that is one approach, assuming tracks were terribly recorded or processed but using faders or gain plugins in realtime is just as fine in a 32 bit world. No matter how your tracks are recorded in loudness, getting to the output channel is where you need the headroom. Save time and unnecessary adding of math to your audio and just use faders and plugin gain. I do however, recommend freezing tracks with plugins during mixing as this will give you better resolution of plugins, fades, etc, of the audio IF you record through analog gear at mixdown. If you bounce your final mix, then you are good. And always use linear phase and higher quality processing in your mastering plugins before bounce 👍
lmao I love how your mic is clipping while your talking about gain staging. but fr doing a whole mix with individual gain plugins on each track with all faders at unity is absolutely unhinged behavior
Some people just like to give the idea what they do requires some special skill and knowledge - in fact, i'd say 70% of 'producer' vids on RU-vid are total BS.
Do you do gain staging before bouncing to audio? As in gain staging software instruments while in MIDI. I find I need to balance each instrument track while still composing with their individual EQ, fx etc (before bouncing anything). Just wondering if the -14dB applies then as well?
Essential yes, what I would recommend is bouncing each instrument / track into its own audio track, for many reasons. Once you're done creating the sound with vst, the vst is only using extra memory, and can reset to default settings ruining your sound. If you turn the midi into an audio file, then you can edit the audio itself and deal with actual audio to edit
Gain in the analog world = electrical/voltage. Gain in the digital world = NOT electrical/voltage. In the digital world, "gain" is Trim- the digital equivalent. Which does not behave the same as actual gain- because it is binary, not electric.
When you say at 3:30 that the plug-ins "were designed to perform their best with a distinct gain or input signal going into them." You're talking about a specific gain level, right? A specific level at which we want to set our gain so that the plug-in processes the signal the best that it can.
Ok, let me see if I got this right. I have to put every single source ( sound ) around -18db, but then make a rough mix that goes to about -12db using a gain plugin and then make my final mix without touching a fader and if so make very little adjustments using the faders?
I m confused ....if we set all faders to unity and set the sweetspot zero on vu meter ...thn how will we balance the volume of tracks....coz if we will change gain.. again they gonna loose sweet spot.
This video is really excellent because it untangles gain issues when working in Logic. Super smart. Keep making videos please. Subscribed. (I watched it three times).
So when you go through and you add the utility gain on each track are you adjusting up or down based on what you hear only or do you look at what the stereo out is reading too?
the problem I have although I continue with gain staging is I find myself obessive with it and disrupts my creative process. I struggle to separate this process whilst producing and using plugin fx.
0VU = +4dBU = 1.23v = -18dBFS RMS With a 1kHZ steady state tone. A couple of points: Just watched your video, and I like what you're trying to do. However, you're a bit off on the science. First, if you're going to do a video on Gain Staging, when there's probably hundreds of videos on Gain Staging, you have to get a couple of things clear. Peak levels vs Average levels. Specifically 'Sample Peak' ( what your DAW meters are showing) and 'RMS' ( or Root Mean Square averaging). In theory, Peak meters are instant, and RMS meters average over time. Most Average Meters are 'V.U.' (Volume Units) and they average over time with an EQ curve similar to human hearing, and I believe have been around since the 30's. dBFS is Decibels relative to Full Scale, and in a 'fixed point' digital system, there's nothing over zero. The most common calibration level between the Analog world and the Digital is: 0VU = -18dBFS That means a signal at 0VU has 18dB of headroom before Digital Clipping. 0VU in the Analog only domain is most commonly referenced to +4dBU which is it self calibrated with a 1kHZ steady state tone at 1.23v on a voltmeter. 0VU = +4dBU = 1.23v = -18dBFS RMS Next, Inside of your DAW you're running 'Floating Point Math' which essentially means that the DAW itself has unlimited headroom. Except for three primary points: 1) Your A-D Converters will clip on the way In (likely at -18dBU in most Pro-Sumer interfaces, +24dBU or higher in a fully Pro system) 2) Your D-A Converters will clip on the way out. That will happen when your DAW tries to convert anything over 0dBFS from its internal floating point math, to your interface's fixed point math. You are monitoring with Heaphones or Speakers, and if your Output goes over 0dBFS, before your Interface turns that signal to Analog, you'll clip. 3) Your DAW likely Won't clip internally, and you can boost a signal 100dB and then cut it -100dB and end up exactly where you were, bit for bit. However any additional processing may actually behave differently. In Analog, nothing has infinite headroom, everything has an electrical ceiling, and most things have a limited operating range that was roughly "Linear". If an analog piece of gear has 100dB of Dynamic Range, between its noise floor and distortion 'ceiling' that's a good piece of gear. In Digital, a 24-bit file has a theoretical 144dB of Dynamic Range, perfectly linear. In the beginning of the digital revolution, we had 16-Bit, Fixed Point not floating DAWs. That was a theoretical 96dB Dynamic Range, that very much Did clip internally, anywhere in the signal path that you went over 0dBFS. And plenty of platinum records were produced that way. That's because anyone coming From Analog, already religiously Gain Staged Everything. We spent half of our time trying to get our signals as far away from the noise floor as possible. And the other half of our time seeing What happens to our signal as we push it above 0VU, into the Red, and into distortion. We were always looking for the 'Sweet Spot' that was unique to Every Single piece of equipment in the signal path. Gain Staging is Optimizing the Level for Every Stage in the Signal Chain. Now Back to your video and the idea of Gain Staging in a modern DAW centric studio. 4) While your DAW won't clip, your Plugin Folder likely contains quite a bit of plugins that are a) perfectly Linear. Push most digital EQs as far as you can and stay ruler straight. b) but what about your Dynamics processors? Where do you set the threshold on a Compressor if your levels are out of wack? c) you probably have a bunch of "Analog Emulations" as well. If they were emulated at all, they are Definitely Non-Linear and should react to signal levels Exactly the same as their Analog counterparts. If not, it aint an emulation. d) and finally, what if you still USE Analog Equipment in you modern Hybrid Studio. Well then you're hitting the D-A Converters, AND you're hitting the Analog Gear, then you're likely hitting the A-D Converters again! So while yes, DAWs now work with virtually unlimited Dynamic Range, so too did your XLR Cables. That's about as relevant as Floating Point is to Gain Staging. The Cables, or Code 'between' your processing can be disregarded, but Everything Else still lives here on Earth. And Gain Staging is about ALL the Stages. Last Point, I know you were actually advising people TO do their Gain Staging. And rightly so. However, the first part of actually doing that is really understanding what all the terms mean, and exactly What all the possible gain controls are, and how they effect every stage in the system. For example, you mentioned the Fader as not being a Gain. There's a way that's true, but not in the way you described and not in a Gain Staging context. Actually the Faders are one of the Primary Gain Staging tool in the hands of the Audio Engineer. Lets take a mix that has just 24-tracks, 8 of those being drums. You can mix 24-tracks into 2 on the master bus. Or you can route the 8-Individual Drum Tracks into a Drum Bus, maybe create a Vocal Bus, and whatever other Busses, and then mix those 4 or 8 Group Busses into the Master. So [ 24 > 2 ] or [ 24 > 8 > 2 ] Those two stages are now three stages of processing and control. Let's say you add Bus Compressors to those 8-Group Busses, and another to the Master Bus. Then those 8 Drum channels are going to push into that Drum Bus Compressor, and the Individual-Drum "Volume" Faders are sending that Gain into that Drum-Bus Compressor. And specifically it's threshold level, which will be at a specific dBFS level. Same for all the Vocals, and Guitars, Keys, etc. Each one being fed from its Individual Channel Faders, into its Buss Processing Chain. Now, you have just 8 Group-Bus Faders to push into the Master Bus Compressor and Processing. This is a big part of how you "Glue" the mix together, and the Faders are your primary tool for doing it. In the end, Gain Staging is as much about feeling as numbers. Each stage has it's mostly linear range that turns into a non-linear area that possible makes the signal coming out better than what went in. That's the Sweet Spot. Finding all the Sweet Spots with your fingers, is what Gain Staging is really all about. You telling me that ain't sexy?
Oh it's sexy all right! Haha thanks a ton for this comment! I appreciate the detail you're throwing my way! I agree. If you're using bus tracks, the fader becomes an essential part of the gain staging process, effecting the the way plug-ins process the signal! My main point was to encourage people to think of the the input signal gain and the output signal volume as separate things so they can better work with it in their DAW! And like you said, it's a lot about feeling too!
Iv lowered the gain to -18 on all my tracks but they aren’t very loud? Should I maybe higher them to -10? But would this make the overall output too loud for mastering? Cheers
Hi Mattie,thanks for your kindness share and yr video let me learn a lot ! One thing I would like to ask is if I only mixing one song and no need to mastering.Do I still aim for -12db on the stereo output channel?Or it can aim for louder level ,maybe -7db?Hope you can answer my question.thank you so much mate!:)
Is it necessary to gain stage just mixing a beat for presentation/shopping, and is it necessary to gain stage if most if not all of your sound sources is coming from a digital source?
Can you explain what you meant around 12:16 with that vocal level? If it’s peaking at -7db how is the master output with all tracks playing still hovering around -12?
Also, another thing was that the perfect set up for the hardware was -18 or 0 VU, it was the perfect level to get "the best result" cleaner/max result.... the point was to maintain -18 the whole chain before getting to the fader. Nowadays DAW's fix this with 32 bit floating avoiding distortion, and it's a new realm for many (if you use hardware there is no escape or emulations), also emulations says you need -18, but people don't know it and use plugins like WAVES and doesn't get any trouble, because companies know their consumers better, and they won't lose any money because you didn't get the right results setting the right levels, it's a shady move for sure. And at the end we are in a very strange point, for sure I can say that it's still applicable for mastering or mixing, this way we will get the correct headroom or not ? I think that gain stage is a very old practice, but if you are or someone using hardware, it's still applicable, and a must it's to think at last to have -6dbs of headroom in your stereo output signal, master channel...... 32 bit floating are saving everybody for sure from getting distortion or taking care of headroom. Also, the 32 bit floating mics are coming to help people avoid saturation signals, that's awesome, you will be able in the future to do everything without thinking about a healthy signal and just buy your first mic and DAW and do the magic that we all want to make..... In the end, it is an amazing tip to know how to normalize those tracks in one click, then if you like you can help yourself to use a GAIN utility to have a great control over your fader and move it with smaller fractions and not whole dB steps when you have around -20 dB on the fader, I hate that. Lastly, this for sure will become handy to have at max -6 dB to -12dB on your master fader for sure, I won't disrespect mastering plugins because they are super sensitive, no doubt, and for sure you won't like extra distortion on your last chain while mastering. With all that said my tip is to try to set a gain utility at the master with a +6.... in that way you get -6 at the end because you avoid 0 on the master, and you remove the utility, and you get -6... good headroom for mastering (Only for in the box!). Great video, and great information, I would love to have hardware someday, but my wallet is not that big.
Great comment. The 32 bit float makes it less important, but it's still a great thing to know about. Thanks for adding all that! I too would love some hardware, but my thin wallet won't let me haha. I'll keep saving up lol
@@Music-By-Mattie I will still follow your video instructions and use gain staging every day. I don't really fully understand 32-bit float realm, and I still need cleaner mixes, I was thinking that after my comment, re-watch your video, that maybe I don't hear clear distortion while mixing, BUT if every plugin may add a very low distortion signal even if it is not recognizable, maybe when I use the maximizer it brings up all the mud, not to be clearly heard, but it could for sure saturate the signal and that stop me from getting a very sweet crystal clear master, Thank you Mattie,
do you also gain stage while adding plugins? for example lets say you add an 1176 compressor, do you set the output so the channel strip is back to its original volume when you initially gain staged??
great video! could you tell me if the normalise feature just reduces the peaks so they don't over the assigned vol, or does it change the whole signal? cheers
Thanks for watching! Haha I'm not sure I totally understand this question. If you're asking on how to reset the gain if you've just done it, you can hit command-z on the keyboard to undo it!
I know you said that Logic will scan all tracks and if the tracks are louder than -14 peak, then Logic will lower it to -14. What if it's not peaking at -14? Will Logic raise the gain automatically?
So, do you recommend -12 on the stereo buss before sending my songs for Mastering ? I get confused when the advice is usually ' between -6 and -3 '. Thanks
Get your mix sounding amazing before sending it to mastering. That is absolutely the most important aspect of mixing. None of the numbers or techniques matter if the result doesn’t make something sound good or better than when you started. That said, -6 dbfs is where most mastering engineers want Tracks to be hitting when they receive them so it gives them 6db of headroom to make any final volume/loudness adjustments necessary for the mastering process. All that said, with 32 big floating audio now, a mastering engineer can go back turn down your track even if it’s clipping into the master before they apply their own processing so that why my first advice of “just make it sound good to you” is the most important.
Gain staging? Not for me. I just had a 3X Grammy Award winner critique a track I’d produced and mastered. His verdict? Flawless. He couldn’t find a single thing wrong with the track. I just don’t want the extra steps.
Also why add the gain plugin to each channel? There’s already a gain control at the top of each channel. Up there by transpose in the properties usually collapsed at the top of the channel.
@@Music-By-Mattie thanks! I noticed someone's the channel’s native gain control is missing. Not sure why. Maybe Drummer session tracks don’t have it either.
If I’m running let’s say a Synth VST and I’m using a preset. Should I add a gain plugin to raise and lower sound? Or use the volume inside the plug in. While I’m leaving my main volume at unity.
'How to Gain Stage like a pro.....' 'Gain Staging in 5 Easy steps...' 'Why you should gain stage...' All you need to know about Gain staging....' Meanwhile, cut to Andrew Scheps - "... for a start I never gain stage..." There you go. Doesn't get any easier than that.
