I don't think this is in the notes, but I was watching the devs stream yesterday where they went over all the changes and the reasoning behind them and one that surprised me was Verdant Barrier (also known as the useless mr component of Banshee). They made it good. It's the counterpart to Seekers, but it gives mr instead of armor and the Banshee's shield, but has twice the cooldown as Banshee (60 seconds. Banshee is 30s). That could be the item you asked when vsing ap assassins. Edit: yes, lethality will become flat pen. Right now on live it has small scaling per level to help out with armor per level, but that is getting removed and it's gonna be flat armor pen. However, the reasoning the devs gave for the Seeker's changes have nothing to do with that. They were testing with no Stopwatch on any items, and the feedback they got was that 90% of mage players were really sad they couldn't have that one time use for certain fights, while no other class had many complains about it. So they decided to put the one time use on Seeker's, with a high cost to detour other classes from getting it, and keep it for mages specifically
I think its good for a mix up, since they dont really change much in league other than nerfing/ buffing items /champions. And it will most certainly change and influence how you will play the game compared to before. I think it would be even better if they had a few different maps with different terrains that were random each game so its not the exact same.
After play like 3 games of fizz in the pbe, ive noticed how hard it was to help out top than it is to help bot. Since there were less options of ability haste on items, i had to decide what i item valued more. I feel like the map was made for an assassin. Maybe laning is made for mages but the whole map just feels so huge.
how does this affect the dmg lethality provide? for example a lethality cait vs a mage that dont have more armor than whats in her runes, how is the dmg affected here?
@@icewalldk If everything else in the game stayed the same, this would be an increase to early lethality and not affect late game. As lethality currently is, the buyer gets 60-100% of the lethality from the items they buy, depending on their level, whereas this change would make it so you always get 100%, even at level 1. In terms of the actual numbers it's not tremendous in theory - that first serrated dirk purchase would only give you 2 or 3 extra points of flat armor pen, but it can add up. Doing something like stacking serrated dirks or buying higher lethality builds in general becomes more stat-efficient than it was, particularly at early levels. It also ends up being a slight buff to lethality users in support or ADC, since current lethality items are mathematically just worse on a lower level champions. That said it's really hard to say about how it is going to be balanced overall in Season 14 since there are so many other changes happening. If I had to guess they're going to have to scale back early lethality a little bit to keep every AD champion from buying serrated dirks simply due to how efficient the stat is
If you look at seeker's now and the S14 seeker's, it actually gives the same amount of armor except the armor is up front instead of stacking it on minions. I feel that they wanted to wanted to preserve the single use stasis of stopwatch in a component item but they wanted to limit its availability to those only building Zhonya's, as stopwatch and the commencing stopwatch rune are both completely removed, it's even gone from the Guardian Angel build path as well. I have also heard from multiple circles that the Lethality is no longer going to scale and now be 1:1 with flat armor pen, I just haven't seen a source on it.
Couple things worth mentioning that are on the PBE right now: -Lost Chapter is back up to 1200 gold -A lot of the items are very statted, even the ones they haven't talked about. This includes Verdant Barrier and Banshees as a way to protect yourself against AP assassins. I believe Banshees currently is sitting on 60 MR, though of course there is also more AP so I'm not sure how that balances. -AD Assassins have a secondary early item in Brutalizer which also builds out of pickaxe and gives ability haste. This makes me wonder if they are also planning to pivot Zed and/or Qiyana to early game snowball oriented champions. -Tiamat has the active again so for 1200 gold you can get pretty incredible wave clear and it can build into a new lethality hydra item. I wonder if we'll see the return of a popularized Pyke mid
hey curtis!! love the BCC podcast and the work you guys do for the league community. i’ve been playing for more than half a decade now and i’ll say im very excited for these changes. would you say the best approach starting season 2024 would be to “give it a crack” and just go in no expectations, gaining a feel for how it plays? happy holidays to you and your loved ones!
As an ADC Main, I'm always loving when Coach Curtis publishes a video on Midlane. Knowing that my Support won't be leaving lane to contest Herald at 08:00 means that my MID won't have pressure on them from the Enemy SUP either. That prevents snowballing from happening, since only dives behind tower (Pink Ward stops this) and deep from River can interrupt their lane. Also, as an Ezreal player, seeing all these Mage Items looks pretty solid. I can't wait to go RoA + TForce, having a juiced HP Bar and zero downtime on my abilities, with a massive proc for healing myself just adds to my pool of items.
i read this as: adc and sup will be toplane to secure the voidlings, toplane will have to go bot. then at around 15min, when the voidgrubs are killed (and topturret is pushed) they will switch back down and contest the second drake as well as push bot turret with the voidling buff. I see no reason to be botside as either adc nor support to contest the firstdrake when so much gold and pushing power is ready for pickup on topside.
I think they are trying to drag game pace from objetives to lanes. They essentially make herald spawn later but they also open up the map by a lot. This way instead of just using the herald as a magnet you will have to make a proactive play, maybe invade the enemy jungler or dive botlane as mid+jungle etc. I am ok with this. Snowbally early game fighting champions now have to actually make setups instead of just contesting an objective against a scaling hyper carry.
Counterpoint to Curtis about mid lane, they can just peak by the wall near the turret and just throw a ward over the edge of the wall and hug the right side, they don't have to walk directly to the river from mid. The other issue is that tanks and adcs with knockback or linear cc will benefit from terrain than assassin's do plus support tanks getting more access to gold is going to weaken assassin meta immensely.
From a Qiyana lense, the map changes really excite me. I can already see some advantages and disadvantages. The new items and duskblade being removed does make me wonder how everything is gonna pan out. However I think playing towards that skirmish/roam/dive/invade playstyle rather than the scale with tear+ firstrike + tp would work very well.
Do you know how the bush distance will affect Qiyana? I don't really play Qiyana, but I was wondering if they'd be far enough away that it's now problematic to try and get brush element.
@@simone8172 i was also thinking about that, but truly the bush around tower is still there and the w range of qiyana is enough to be able to get the grass from hovering on one side it looks like, it will be WAAY EASIER to set up ganks now because the water is so close u W on it and hop closer to your enemy at the same time .
You should record timing changes from going from lane to lane. like tier 2 mid turret to tier 1 side lanes, what changes. Or mid to baron and daragon pits
With respect to the comment around 15 mins: I've actually been starting to wonder if top should become the duo lane and bot should be the solo lane now. With Voidgrubs spawning at 5:00 and potentially respawning as early as 9:00-10:00 (read: before 2nd dragon can possibly be on the map even if the first were instantly killed), and also giving tower damage to the team (means more gold from plates), I really think contesting those is far more valuable than contesting a single early game dragon. Bot lane is only the duo lane because traditionally that's where the most important early game objective was... I don't think that's the case anymore and actually believe those two lanes should be switched now so you have 2 champions closer to grubs. I say this because I was also contemplating for a bit if mid should be the duo lane to allow the support to affect either objective, but I then realized it wouldn't be as beneficial as having a farming champion in a safe lane able to affect the map.
swapping top and bot used to be a popular strategy even in pro. riot nerfed it by making it so turret plates bot lane don't make the turret take reduced damage. if u send 2 top the 2 bottom will permashove and get plates faster than the 2 top will. there might be some situations where its worth it but with gold being more localized now i'm not sure how worth it it'll be
@@nothoughtsheadem Yeah I had considered this... It's just that you can get all 6 void grubs before the second dragon can even spawn, and a single dragon compared to 6 void grubs just seems entirely worthless, which really makes me believe you want as much prio top as possible in the early game now.
I recently picked up smite support in plat and specialize in invading. I honestly don't know what to do when enemy midlaner has essentially 5-10 sec walk to blue buff lol. Like you said, while I have a lot of paths to exit and escape from, it's a double edged sword. Even the brush position is awkward, definitely best invade angle is blue side banana bush to enemy red or red side tribush to enemy blue side tribush. Oh, also im 100% ready to camp those void babies as soon as they spawn, every support is going to abandon their ADC XD.
If I play Xerath mid into Fizz, I would certainly rush a Banshees as a first item. Its now 120 AP, 50 MR and blocks one spell for 3100 gold. Else Fizz will have too easy a time snowballing since Rocketbelt is 2500 only.
One thing that may not seem big but to me as an Anivia OTP is the placement of turrets. No longer can Anivias block the wave with wall to freeze, I wonder how else this will effect the game.
I"ve been playing mid for about a year, I main Yasuo but I also play Yone, Talon, Akali, Ahri, when they ban / pick my preferred champions... It's been very very difficult to get used to the new midlane for me... I feel like all the progress I've had in the past year (leaving botlane) is mostly lost... the mid, new mage / assassin items, matchmaking... It's just too much at once!
I'm not sure about the Void Grubs, but I think between the Herald change AND the item changes, the game pace will slow down significantly. You have to get a lot more items to get the stats you need for team fighting. You can't just build a mythic and then be fine for a while. I'm sorta fine with that. With this blinding fast game pace, champions that have a poor early game but scale really well are just unplayable at high ELO, so this gives them a fighting chance
I played on the patch a bit. The void grubs are more important than early dragons for sure as far as I can tell especially if you get more than 3 the true damage applies for everyone so it’s kinda rifting every lane at once that being balanced by the fact that you can’t hit turret all the time but it scales incredibly well too now that all turrets are worth so much gold so definitely an objective to fight over . Game pace felt the same but pibe games are not that good of an indicator so will have to wait and see once the season begins
What the most broken role in 14 season you think will be? I think, that changes make top and mid the most strongest roles in the game, like jungle is nerfed, and mid and top have more pressure on early game.
On jg perspective map changes around mid make Tower dives easier. More ways to go in and go out. As nunu main i can snowball straight under Tower from River
The one change to blue side middle (or bottom side middle lane) is diving that tower will be insanely more easy. That old wall meant that either they had to hard commit and go behind the tower, or had to go over/through the wall IE Aurelion Sol, or Rek'sai. Now, I know warding will help with this, as it always has, but i'm a low elo player. Getting a jungler at my elo to buy wards is like pulling teeth, and having them actually use it to help you if they do buy a ward almost needs and act of god. To me that wall on left side of the tower was a bastion to fall back on, with it not there you will have more of an ability to dodge that way, but i'm not sure if more room to dodge will be as big a benefit as a hard wall to keep most champions out.
The thing is, due to how wide the lane is and how open it is, I feel like you will a) see the dive coming from 3 miles away and b) you will have the entirety of lane to put between you and the oposition. For example, now the only hidden entrance to mid is through chicken camp, so if you see someone coming from bot side, you just sit and chill near the wraith wall and have a lot of spacing to work with. But I would have to play it a lot to reach any definitive stance to be sure.
They just buffed turret local gold for split pushers. The void grub dot is pretty shit but the zzrot you get if you get them all is big. They really want a split pushing meta which is going to snowball off grubs. Game pace should be fairly quick in higher ELO. Especially with the Scuttle Shuttle Herald Sled.
Regarding the Void Grubs/Rift Herald question about game pace...I'm wondering if this also benefits ranged mid laners/scaling mages. Since the extra damage to towers from Grubs would require attacking the tower, might that be more difficult for melees/assassins to utilize?
I think the void grubs are going to have a huge impact on the game. If i'm correct (I very well might not be), the grubs spawn in at 5-6 minutes which is quite early. If you can get them on spawn/early on every winning lane starts to snowball significantly. With rift you can accelerate one lane with plates, with the true damage on grubs you can potentially snowball all of them. The damage isn't insane, I believe 2 damage per grub? but this is important for heavy pushing lanes, things like double ranged bot can potentially take an extra plate. When junglers gank they can take an extra plate super easily, especially on attack based JG like kindred, xin'zhao etc. 2nd thing I'm a little worried about is assassins' in the mid lane. I think that itemization is going to be very important and mages may have a really hard time dealing with assassins now. Tldr: I think the grubs will allow pushing lanes/winning lanes to be way more punishing, but I could just be full of it. I need to actually play with it before I make a decision lol.
My irrelevant thoughts: 1. the terrain changes are buffs to assassin's when it comes to fights (Akshan can swing more freely around former choke points) + less room to get trapped and punished for lots of assassins. 2. the grubs or whatever are gonna give more attention to top side, their damage is pretty good to miss out on. 3. top lane is gonna be either a: 1v1 lane kingdom, or a 30 min farming simulator. ganking top is going to be significantly harder. 4. bot is gonna be a 4v4 5. Eve is the META, thus control wards are also the META. The items are probably going to get adjusted a lot before the official competitive season starts, rn they're overtuned af.
(For full clarity I’m currently a OTP Illaoi in Plat) something to keep in mind from a midlaners perspective is that the terrain in toplane has changed for the worse for Illaoi, because it’s more spread out, she can’t get multi-tentacle combos as easily anymore… sooooo maybe Illaoi will have more presence in midlane, I’ve done it before and its a lot of fun, but it’s just something to think about
I played a lot of illaoi mid (Em2 player here) mostly playing Akshan/Illaoi/Azir mid. I don't have a pbe account but illaoi mid strengh was: 1) could get 4 tentacles ready to fight close to you (now the walls are quite far away it seems) 2) A shorter lane to keep you safe in bad matchups. Not sure illaoi mid benefits a lot from all those changes. It may even be quite the opposite to be fair! But yet, not tested! Neither items or map change.
It is a big anivia otp nerf. There was a pathing exploit when you wall t1 turret,which anti-pushes your lane/alters the lane state by blocking minions. That is gone noe
Hi Curtis, can i ask a quick question regarding what i should do if my bot lane stomps hard, pushes their lane in and rotates mid. The enemy bot laner then freezes near their inner turret, what do i do in this situation? If you already covered this in a video can I applogise - if you count point me in the right direction here i'd be most greatful. Thanks.
@Coach Curtis do you have any recommendations for a Jungle coach? I really like your vids and the podcast, but I would like to find someone specific to jungle as well. ty
A very high-level take on map and objective changes imo is that they wanted to reduce jungle agency by making mid plays and invades more risky, reduce roaming support agency by putting more attention on top-lane objectives in the very early game, increase the difficulty of locking out mid as an assassin player, and give mages and scaling lanes a bit more room to breathe.
Few interesting takes: Kassadin with multiple Mana items Vladimir rushing the new non AP burst items Skirmishers gonna need to get nerfed (looking at yone yas, irelia) since the lane is way longer (Looking from a neutral wave state)
Hey, I'm coming at this from an ADC perspective here(even if I had a long time playing mid way back in ye olden days). Is it just me or is it a much better idea with these map changes to send your bot lane mid? Allow me to elaborate. The bush you're pointing at 7:26, that bush is VITAL to ward now for taking any dragon. Are you going to ask your Akali or Xerath or Vel'koz(if those buffs go through maybe) to walk into that river, through all that distance, then put a ward down there? That's a big ask, and with ANOTHER objective on the map (Those little rift things, whatever they're going to be called) that is also CRITICAL(the tower kill speed is insane) you're then going to have them also march up that way to ward that? Or ask your jungler to do both of those, and gank the lanes, and maintain jungle control, and objectives? I'd rather assign that to a competent support/bot duo who can watch eachother's back in a risky move like that instead of putting a full gold and XP lane's neck on the line. Especially with the structure of the lane. I know you're talking rotate speeds for jungle fights around 2:00 and the same thing, would your rather have a support and an ADC coming to help whatever struggle the junglers are in, or just the mid laner? Expand that thought out a little further, you already know as a mid-focused channel that a good roaming support can straight up win your lane on your behalf at times. Imagine if it wasn't just mid that had to worry about the support roaming in for a huge gank like that? Top laners rarely see more than a lane-gank from a support, the pressure that a missing support can exert on the map if their typical lane is middle is huge(especially on someone like Pyke). I've been shopping around for people to talk about this concept to and I've yet to come up with anyone who has something convincing to say mid and bot might not just trade places this season. I want to know what someone who focuses on analysis might think about this concept. I'll actually be shocked if we don't see this very strategy emerge from the pro scene after some time given the way it's shaped, and the general macro play at that level. It might even lead to strange lanes like running a typical assassin alongside a support in the lane. Am I losing my mind thinking like this or is this making any sense?
you could also if you were a two-premade with adc and mid jam it anyway. Have the "midlaner" run a mage with good waveclear and just farm under tower surviving their bot- and dominate 2v1 with adc and support midlane. If the enemy dont match their mid is gonna get killed, and your support will have a better presence than theirs ( along side all the better presence too objectives early and mid)
@@fmb6945 to be frank the only possible way to get out of mana on azir is either spamming Qs off cooldown or getting ganked 3 times in 1 minute mana has never been an issue for me even without lost chapter
@@andreas1235578 to be honest I never had mana problems on azir even without lost chapter, having either one of presence of mind, manaflow or biscuits is enough. More often than not, summoning a new soldier is better than Q-ing when csing or skirmishing, and sometimes a basic WE is sufficient to evade a gank (you don't always need to drift out). As long as you don't spam Qs off cooldown or drift over the nexus if you leave fountain at 80% HP & mana, you mana bar will always be in the safe zone
I dont understand why riot us removing so much haste from mage items when the ability to cast again is the only way to deal with ad bruisers and assassins that ubdeservably has access to very low cooldowns.
Hey Coach Curtis, i love your content mate. Sadly you're not appreciated enough. People don't appreciate high quality content. They would rather watch useless and clickbait videos made by Skillcapped and ProGuides rather than videos of a highly respectable coach who's results speak for themselves. Anyways, have a good day. Would love to see more from you!
and void grubs are going to be as effective as rift herald, just not giving you free tower plates for no effort if you just happen to secure a herald. too much hinged on that first herald. now you can still burn up a tower but you still have to lane and push your waves and fight to get to the tower. not just drop a bug on it and walk away
I think Qiyana will neef massive buffs on this patch. The global AH reduction nerfs her perma stealth viability and the wall placement derails her lane trade and all in patterns significantly.
I don’t think the game pace will slow down too much- I’ve played a couple games on PBE and fighting over grubs seems pretty important, kinda like that meta where the mid/jg 2v2 was always fighting over scuttles. Getting all 6 of the grubs spawns little ZZ’Rot-esque minions while an allied champ is attacking towers for the rest of the game in addition to the tower damage bonus, and these are both team-wide effects, so I think grubs will be a pretty big priority. Or at least, it’ll be important for each team to try to get at least one of them to ensure that the enemy team doesn’t get all 6.
i feel vs assassins banshee and zhonya will be 2nd item , they are buffing both items stats .. both will give over 100ap.. removing hp and stopwatch is good change its reverted to what mages items used to be...and that was more ap and no hp in builds....random hp made assasins rly hard to play..now im scared ad,ap assassins will be especially strong in the jungle and oneshot mages without counterplay,...new assassins items seems rly strong especially all those out of comabt passive that benefits. junglers.... maybe they gonna need to add some hp per lvl to mages or nerf those lethality items...cause it seems its gonna be super hard to survive oneshoot my only complain is that now 90% of ap champs on mid will rush same 1st item...cause there is only 2 mana items..(3with roa, but i feel roa stats are super bad) if they add 300 mana to lich bane it would be good option for some champs ...like it used to be on fizz back in the day ..now you can never go lich bane
Curtis İ think this is the best time to update your Irelia guide , since the itemization has changed twice , Irelia got reworked and meta changed a lot , your guide feels kinda outdated for now, I hope to see you updating that guide , since I really love that champion and if having a mage was not necessary in mid lane I would DEFINITELY otp'ed her.Love you ❤❤❤
maybe we also start to see more ad assassin guides ? Like zed or talon for example . Especialy zed is the champion that all of low-mid elo players have no idea how to use properly @@CoachCurtis
Also team red top is damn near impossible to gank even with dash champs diving has to be coordinated af. Red top just needs to ward the corner just outside the tri bush and they're golden if they can freeze lane. Zac and kayne might be acceptations but even so top lane is gonna be so much harder to play tbh #myworstrole
From the few games I’ve played on pbe, ap burst damage seems wayyyy to strong. Things like veigar with the new items having high ap scaling is just too strong. New items will need tuning for sure
I think the changes are to avoid bot going to top to fight for herald early on. Top laners dont go to fight early drake so why should bot go top? Instead they put an objective that benefits split push by doing true dmg to turrets and thats exactly what top/mid laners want to have. Instead of an herald which gives gold in general. It seems a nice change but well see
hey guys i bit of a random question but im having real problems with it. I have never had a main position in lol and i had never climed elo( hardstuk silver 4 years). But recently because of a bet with friends i have played 2 straight months of adc, and i have reached gold4. I like adc but i love mid too, is the position i have played the most. I dont know how to chose between one of them and i dont wana play both cuz i would be going back to my old days of perma-swiching positions. Any help, really anyone
No clue how good they will be with the new season, but there are plenty of adcs that are played mid currently. Akshan is an adc designed to play mid as his role. Others include Tristana, Kai’sa, Varus, Caitlyn, Corki, Kog’maw, Twitch, Ezreal, and arguably Vayne. Some build AP, but they’re still marksman mid options. The big thing you’d have to keep in mind though is good mid lane players know when and where to roam. Akshan has good roaming potential, so do some marksman champs, but some will have a harder time. ADC as a role doesn’t usually roam for ganks, they group for objectives and lane swap at different stages of the game. The other side of that is some mid lane champs can be played bot; Yasuo, Syndra, Veigar, Karthus, and Seraphine are pretty common. The question I’d ask you; do you enjoy mid lane because of where it is in the map, or the champs you play in it? And what are you good at in the ADC role, playing those marksman champs or something else?
bro if your bet with friend is to see who can climb higher, def go play mid, and stick to one champ that you like the most (snowballing champs will make you climb fast esp.)
As an assassin player I personally like that there will be no crowns or everfrost. I`ve always considered those items too much of a safe item that you really can`t do anything about it as an assassin. I understand that mages needed some kind of a defensive option, but that combined with zhonya just resulted in a really p*ssy build :D They never entered a fight without that and when you found one opening... no damage. So I`m glad that they can`t hide their lack of skill behind items that win the games for them.
I'm calling league of assassins. People are so focused on mages because they finally get some items that are not just pure stat sticks or give a DoT. But Assassins will reign supreme. Noting it down here so I can say "told you so". :d
I play ekko mid a lot. Ekko seems like he doesn't always belong in mid lane anymore. Now seeing 2024 update, I think Ekko is going to excel in mid again. He is technically a mage, but he also has good movement and is considered as a assassin. I think Talon will be no longer a champ to be played in mid cause there's not a lot of escape for him with how the walls are set up in mid.
bros talking about "nuanced itemization" because you cant get every stat in the game on one item anymore kekw bro, if u havent yet.. try dota 2. then talk about nuanced itemization.
I don't believe the game will go slower if the grubs buff is as relevent as it is right now in PBE. The game is even more Snowbally in its current form. Also, it's really tough for champs that want to scale, because many objectives, including the grubs, are too relevent to be missed. You less and less can let go of one or two before fighting for them. The walls near dragon and baron are terrifying for immobile champs like most controle mages and adc.
