Hi Peter, This takes me back to my Uni days and it’s 40 years since I have done these sort of calculations. It is worth noting that Blum hinges use a weight specification up to a maximum width of 600mm. This is because they recognise it as a cantilever at which the force is proportional to its distance away from the hinge. Without going into things like Newton metres etc think of it in the same way as your needing to loosen a stubborn nut on something, if you can’t get enough weight on it to get it to loosen it with a wrench by just increasing the length of the wrench and using the same force you can more easily loosen the nut. The breaking load on your hinge can be thought of in the same way. Especially if people start using storage shelving on the doors.
The Excel calculator is really handy Peter - thank you. I'm busy trying to work out how many hinges I'd need for a 178x31.8 cabinet door, so this is super helpful 🙏
Woodwork and spreadsheets, what a perfect combo! (I’m an accountant and very amateur weekend woodworker). If it’s of use, there is a function in excel that will always round up rather than to the nearest full number. Use =roundup(door weight/hinge capacity,0) and it will always round upwards giving a bit of extra peace of mind for those of us who always over think and over engineer! Thanks for all the great content.
'...because, you know, it's flush!' And the sidelong raised eyebrow glance to camera! Your comedy stand-up debut is when Peter? Cracked me up as it has others I see.
Another super video Peter! If i was that way inclined id easily snog your face off for the effort you put in to share your wealth of knowledge gain over 'many' years! Thanks and pucker up!! 😜
Hi Peter. This is really good info. Blum also provide a cabinet Configurator which will determine the number of hinges for you. Very useful for the kitchen I'm building
Yes indeed, but as I say in the video description, there’s no registration, no login, no account required with this simple spreadsheet. Plus of course, it’ll work with any hardware you can get a weight/rating for. 👍👍
May have been mentioned already but if you used a round up formula on the number of hinges it will round anything over .0 to the next whole number ie 2.2 hinges would become 3 not 2
I feel like this is a moment (or torque) and not a weight question. Assuming doors are symmetrical, that would be halve the width of the door times the weight. That way, you have a moment in Kilogramsmeter. Would that not make it easier to determine the amount of hinges? Do hinges actually come with a maximum Moment?
if one was to start doing basic real wood projects, open back bookshelves or bedside drawers, apart from drop saw and table saw and sanding gear, most of which already have, i'd need a jointer and thicknesser. 20 inch thicknesser enough for such projects? many thanks for any guidance.
Great video Peter and I like having reference spreadsheets like this when making it makes things consistent and easy, so thanks for sharing. I commented on another commenter about my experience as a lad working alongside my dad making cabinets to the System 32 standards with (back then) 434 millimeters being the maximum dimension between hinges. What's funny is I still rely on my hand written notes I made in the mid 80's as referencce and have found very little on-line which answers the obvious question of how many hinges do I need? So a great contribution to the community.
My shed door has 4 hinges, rated at 120KG each. But then it is 3'10" wide, 6'6" tall and is made of 3x2" wood with an 18mm ply face. The plan was to make the shed hard to brake into.
Nicely done Peter 😁. Well done for putting in so much effort for the benefit of others. I'm sure this would be a great tool to have during any design project 👍. But now I just want to make a really long but light door and try out the "one hinge" trick 😂🤣. Thanks for the video 😁👍
Saw a 'telecoms' cabinet door in a building foyer which looked like 18mm mdf with about 8mm acrylic glued on the front (for looks). It looked damn heavy at about 8ft tall and maybe 3ft wide. When opened, it had three sets of three hinges - 9 in total. That's a lotta hinges ... 😉😉😉
What happens when a door is say 2.4m tall and 600mm wide? 18mm mdf. Will this not need about 6 hinges. Its hard to know what to use once the door width possibly gets above the 600mm in width. Say 700mm? The charts online max out at 600mm. Great video and helpful though nice job 👍🏻
Good. Made me think that perhaps a recommendation for maximum distance between hinges would also be a good consideration, like, say at least one hinge per 600 mm, or similar. Like you mentioned, to keep things in line.
When I was taught the System 32 cabinet making system by my dad the specification I was working to had a maxmimum distance of 434mm between hinge plate centres. We worked on bespoke cabinets for a group of local housebuilders who, at the time, had a very strict specification. For 3 hinges the third hinge had to be in the middle, for 4 hinges the middle two equidistant between the top and bottom. I've made very few cabinets over the last 30 years and I don't work in the trades anymore, but 434 has stuck in my mind ever since.
@@StrawbyteWorkshop Okay, that seems a bit too extreme though, might be okay if the doors are very heavy and very wide. In my apartment I have three built-in basic cupboards/cabinets that have about 2200x500 mm doors (HxW), and the doors still only have three concealed hinges about 1000 mm apart. It mostly seems okay, but sometimes feels like a fourth hinge might be appropriate. The doors are plain and cheap white melamine-covered chipboard about 16 mm thick. EDIT: Mind you, I would never make any furniture from that generic chipboard shit. It is too unforgiving in every way. I prefer to use full/massive wood for everything. Although for e.g. cabinet doors that has sometimes a problem with warping.
How do you adjust a door with 3 hinges? Do the top the middle or the bottom one first? I've had great problems with that. Idea for a future video. Subscribed.
Thanks! Always the top mine first - then the doors will just hang while you get the bottom one sorted. Then you can get the middle one in line. Same with 4 or 5 hinges - always top first, then bottom, then the others. 👍
Hi Peter I enjoy your videos immensely, I was just wondering if I can make my carcass with 22mm sheets and get a full overlay on the 22mm panel or does it need to be 18 mm? Love the content and learning alot from your work,thanks a million 👍
Hiya, and thanks for your kind comments. Have to confess I don’t know the answer to this one, offhand. There are hinges for thicker doors, but not specifically for thicker carcasses, though in the back of my mind I seem to remember that whilst not it’s intended use a zero protrusion hinge will work with thicker carcasses. But that’s one to direct at Blum technical guys, I think, or one of the hinge suppliers eg trade-hinges or Eurofit direct. 🤷♂️👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks very much Peter,I must do up a mock sample before I build the unit and test it that way,thanks again for the content and videos,and the massive effort and time you put into them,I have done a few technical drawing videos for my students in lockdown last school year and it takes a while to get them even half right,you could have a place in hollywood with your productions.all the best.
Thinking out loud here; we don't know how the hinge folks arrived at their numbers (thinking about the physics of doors, you have a weight with a minor to major moment arm hanging off the hinge so heavy wide doors will stress the hinge a lot more than the same design on a narrow door) but this will only be a problem when doors become really tall or really wide - probably something we can ignore 99% of the time. Since you will need a minimum of two hinges, a table showing when to add a hinge as the the height goes up (to keep things aligned as you mentioned - if not for weight) or when they exceed a certain width. Our double door on the lazy susan, in my opinion, could have used a 3rd hinge due to the long moment arm. Perhaps not a problem in the projects you have done, but the projected use of the door may be a concern too. If the door is going to see a lot of heavy use (commercial, kids etc.) then an extra hinge may be called for if you still want to use the same model of hinge.
As I say, it’s a simple worksheet that suggests hinge numbers for typical cabinet and wardrobe doors based on normal usage ie doors that are taller than they are wide, and requires some common sense to be applied. 👍
PLEASE HELP : looking for some ideas on how to secure melamine cabinets on a wall that has plywood behind it ! My backing for cabs is 3/4 thick I would assume sheetrock is 1/2 and plywood half inch or 3/4 I usually use 3” screws on walls without the plywood directly to studs ANY IDEAS help any info on certain wood screws anything !! Was just thinking to use longer screws and put a bunch on each cabinet for extra strength TIA!! I was also thinking I might add some legs on it but my goal is for it to be floating , thanx!!!
I look at wall hanging options in the cabinetry basics series, part 4. French cleats are a solid option, as you can spread the load across several fixings. 👍👍
Hi Peter, I have been binging on your videos for the past year. As an amateur woodworker they're very, very, very informative and fun! Love them. One follow-up question on this video (and haven't actually seen the subject broached on other videos): How tall can you actually make a door without it warping? I'm making cabinet doors for a wardrobe, much like your project in video #344. Basically: i'm not sure if it's a good idea to have 18mm plywood doors measuring 2300mm x 370mm. What does your gut feeling say?
Hi Tom, and thanks! Largest doors I made were 2500 high, and I made those from 22mm for the reasons you state. 2300 will probably be OK, as long as you’re using a nice flat plywood to start with. It’s not a wide door and enough hinges will help keep in line 👍👍
That's a handy spreadsheet. Thanks for sharing. is the MDF you use already coated/painted? I don't see any weight mentioned for paint. I didn't watch the video about adjusting the concealed hinges yet. I should do that asap
Thanks Hans. No, no allowance for paint; we haven’t been able to use lead paint since the 60s... 😂 Seriously though, the weight of paint would be negligible for these kind of calculations - they’re only a guide. 👍👍
Hi Peter. i am a long term subscriber and have loved all your videos for there technical advise and content, you have inspired me to have a go. my wife said why dont you make some wardrobes for our bedroom, so i was going to make some bespoke shaker doors, but then the wife said she saw some she liked in Ikea. so now im stuck as i could of made the doors to fit the carcase, so i was hoping you could give me some advise as you have made many over the years. i am buying (reluctantly) ready made doors from IKEA that are 495mm in width, they come with 4 ikea hinges, i was thinking of using blum hinges like you use on most of your install wardrobes. the question i am stuck on is i want a couple of double wardrobes and one single wardrobe in the middle, i am making the carcase from 18mm MR mdf, what size width do i make the carcase for a double wardrobe and also a single wardrobe if the doors are 495mm each door, as i want enough room for adjustmant and for the doors not knocking each other..........please help, thanks in advance. kevin
Hi Kevin. It’s. It something I’ve ever done tbh, and that’s a more complex question than I can probably answer here tbh, because it depends on the thickness of the material used for the Ikea carcasses, that the doors are intended for - but I’ll do my best! I’d take a look at the specs for the wardrobe carcass (Pax??) that the doors are meant to work with, and take the dimensions from that - just be aware that many Ikea carcasses are 15/16mm thick MFC and not 18mm, which could throw off the measurements. Ikea usually supply Blum hinges, but they sometimes use a slightly oddball positioning, so be a little wary of that, too, as the doors will be ore-drilled for the hinges. IF the hinge positions are standard, then I’d expect a a pair of 495mm doors to fit a 1000mm carcass, with 3mm between the doors and a ~3mm inset in the hinge side. But check the specs - you might fine the standard Ikea double is 998, or 996. 🤷♂️ Personally if I wanted to fit a pair of 495 doors to a double carcass then I’d want it to be closer to 994mm for the carcass, but again, without having the doors and hinges in my hand I wouldn’t commit to that. Hope that’s if some help! Peter
When using three or more hinges. Sometimes I have trouble getting them clipped on. I eventually get them all in, but any advice or tricks. The middle ones seem to fight the other hinges. I’ve found that making sure the horizontal rod in the hinges should all be engaged before pushing to click in. Any other thoughts? Thanks
With more than two hinges, always leave the lower hinge plates loose, then attach the door to the top hinge, and feed the hinges into the lower hinge plates. Then tighten up the hinge plates once the hinges are engaged. 👍👍
Hi Peter, a suggestion for an amended formula which deals with additional hinges based on length. I have picked 500 as a maximum distance between hinges, but you will be better placed to provide an appropriate value: =MAX(2,J4/I4,ROUNDUP(C4/500,0))
Hi, i have cabinet doors for under the sink, each weights 6 KG (542 x 809 mm). With 2 hinges full overlay soft closed i think should be ok, but it is better if i put 3 hinges? With 3 hinges will suffer less? TY
Hi. You’re kind of on the edge of what the hinges are rated at. You’ll probably be fine, but I’d be tempted to add a third, just to be sure. If it was 900 high I definitely would, so no harm in adding one in just as a precaution tbh. 👍
Peter Millard When you paste his formula in remember to check the cell numbers if you just copy it's into each of the options. I didn't at first so it gave the same result in each option!
Peter I am planning on trying to make some faker-shaker window shutters for my flat (1.9 x 1m size with 4 vertical 12mm +6mm MR MDF panels) but can't decide between flush hinges (done previously with moderate success) & Euro style (never attempted). Any suggestions? Thanks in anticipation. PS Your videos are terrific & have helped my very basic woodworking hugely (doing more & making fewer disasters)
Hi Dick, and thanks! Wow, that’s a big old shutter! A metre wide is a heck of a swing - will you keep it as a single panel, or bi-fold it? Most commercial window shutters use flush hinges, but be sure to choose some decent quality ones, not the cheap & cheerful ones like I used in my flush hinges video. I don’t think concealed hinges would be appropriate as I doubt you’d have space for them, though obvs. I don’t know your window recess measurements! A quick fiddle with my spreadsheet suggests it’ll weigh around 22Kg so you’d be looking at 5 or 6 concealed hinges just by weight alone. As I say, I’d look at some better quality flush hinges, and see if you can get a weight-bearing spec from the manufacturer. Fun project! Let me know how you get on! 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop planning on making 4 panels per door (sub 250mm x 1650 approx) set in a poplar frame with 25mm rebate. May use t-hinge/strap-hinges to fix the first panel to the frame but as you note the weight is a real issue. One of the things I'm considering is using Lite MR MDF www.lathamtimber.co.uk/products/panels/mdf/light/caberwood-trade#86 in either 18mm or 22mm. We have some old shutters made by a local joiner that are 22mm and for this project (inner London) the key consideration is noise as it's a listed building with single glazed sash windows (already put in new new staff & parting beads with brushes). My only real concern with the hinges is whether to use 18mm +6mm or just 22m (non faker-shaker) as the later gives more room for the screws. Similarly if I use 22mm I will use 75mm hinges but if I stick at 18mm then I' use the 60mm as you recommend in the video. Thanks for your response and your's is the most pragmatic maker channel I follow. I went to Maker Central but that was early on my making journey and I was so overwhelmed by the tools and gadgets I didn't manage to get to a single talk.
@@richarddicktaylor219 Thanks Dick. I've never used 'lite' MDF so not sure what the weight savings will be, but something to consider carefully. As I say, you'll need to source some good quality flush hinges - Ironmongery direct seem to have a good range - and it's probably worth ordering in a few samples to make sure they'll work out OK. Poplar/Tulipwood frame would definitely help from a fixings point of view too, and unless the shutters are for security, I'd go with the lightest panel I could find. Sounds like a great project, let me know how it goes! 👍
Hi Peter, a very useful video. I know they're not very common, but have you considered the increased cantilever effect of doors that are wider than they are tall, where the Centre of Gravity might be a larger contributing factor?
Thanks! Yes, I do say in the video, and the video description that a wide or 'landscape' door will exert different forces; as you say they are rare, but always worth mentioning! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop They are rare, but I will be needing them for the facing doors of my cat beds that will be running across the top of my cabinets. The beds will have doors that are approx 350 mm x 1000 mm. They have semicircular openings so the cats can look out. I've designed the cabinet front as a door because I want to be able to get in there and clean. I'm thinking that the easiest way to avoid it all ending in tears is to have the doors hinged along the bottom edge rather than at the sides.
@@10MinuteWorkshop If i split that door in the middle making it 3.5 foot high and 2 foot wide. Would 2 concealed hinges hold it and avoid bending in long term?
When you put, say, three hinges, do you install them evenly considering the height of a door (for example around 1800 mm), or do install the hinges according to the cupboard? (I hope this makes sense)
Usually if there are three hinges for a taller panel door, there'll be a mid-rail so I put the centre hinge there. If it's a flush door, then I make them even. 👍
It's worth noting that this is really just for "portrait" doors with a limited width as the shape of the door and moment of inertia is much more important than weight. My 900x600 Birch ply flush doors work fine with just two hinges (though I would actually recommend 3), but the half height door (450x 600) needed 4 hinges to ensure it does not sag, despite being half the weight ! Maybe some clever person here could upgrade the excel spreadsheet to measure force rather than weight...
As I only do this on a amateur basis, I'd rather stick another one in if it "looks" a tad on the weak side. Also surely the width of the door comes into effect due to Mr Archimedes' law of levers. Obviously in a production environment you would be trying to minimise costs, but I don't want mine blowing out. I've noticed recently that many heavy doors seem to have three hinges, but not spaced equidistant, the third hinge being higher up toward the upper one. Not exactly sure of the ratio, but by eye seems to be 1/4 to 1/3 down from the top hinge (as a ratio of the distance between top and bottom hinge). Looking at it, it seems obviously to be a good solution, but I'll leave it to others as the the reasoning, and especially the mathematics behind it. 😃'. I'm sure the door material takes its part too. Solid wood Vs MDF for example. Keep it up Peter, good info and something to think about. Over here in Australia, MR MDF is as rare as Rocking Horse Poo to find, and isn't anywhere as stable as the stuff you have over in Great Britain, which is also a consideration.
I think in a production environment I’d rather whack another hinge in there rather than risk a complaint, as well! And yes, I think I did mention the effect of a ‘landscape’ door rather than ‘portrait’ . Sorry - though fascinating - to hear the MR MDF is harder to find in some parts of the world! 🤷♂️👍
Good to know. I'm building wardrobes at the moment and I will have a glass door on my shoe cabinet that will be 1800 mm x 700 mm (full overlay). I was thinking 5 hinges. I hate it when euro hinges sag.
Hello, I am not great at woodworking, so please someone tell me if I am thinking of this backwards, but I am sure 'the weight' is not the "end all and be all" of this.. I would think 'distance from hinge' the opposite edge would make a difference? 1000x500 requires 2 hinges, but a 500x1000 (eg, landscape door) would add much higher stress on the hinges? the whole "long lever can lift the world" type of situation? Even though the door weighs exactly the same no matter if you turn it portrait or landscape, but if you tried to hold the door with just two points on the same edge, it landscape one would be prettier hard to hold straight for any length of time. Or am I just thinking too much into it?
You know if you watch the video, I say exactly that - that if someone is having a ‘landscape’ door is hinged on the short side, then those stresses are totally different. Again, as I say in the video, it needs to be used in conjunction with with some common sense. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I might have to watch the video again.. I don't remember that part.. Though I was working while listening to your video, so I guess I wasn't 100% on everything.. Sadly if "common sense" is required for the maths/calculations, we are all doomed.
It’s the “Common Sense” thing that gets them every time. It gets harder to find the older I get! (Just having a bit of fun here now). But I think I’ve used too many hinges over the years!
I have questions about the hinges: what do you think of the "Clip top" series ? there are 2 types of carcass supports for those hinges, one that has the screws above and under the hinge, and one that is totally hidden by the hinge, have you tried both ? (this style www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FMM2NWI )
I’ve only ever used the cruciform shaped hinge plates, never the in-line versions. All my marking guides and templates are for the cruciform type - they’re more common tbh, but no reason the inline ones won’t work well. 👍
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