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I use one pattern for each song, and i use conditionals religiously. I just progress through the pattern by muting and unmuting, each song is like 3 minutes of that and then i start bringing in the next pattern. I do that by juggling between the digi and syntakt, so like progressively muting some tracks on the digitakt and start unmuting them on the syntakt until i’m fully transferred to the syntakt, and then load up the next pattern on the digi and do the opposite. As a dj, this method makes most sense in my mind. The 2 machines are like my turntables and i juggle between them. I really like the “islands” workflow though. I wish that was implemented more often, for some reason i hardly see it. If i could do that on the digitakt2 that would be amazing, like a kind of performance mode where i could load in specific tracks from another pattern and keep doing that with all of them until im fully in the next pattern, and do a live set like that. Thats basically what i’m doing now, except i could do everything on the dt2 which would be nice. And some thoughts on what constitutes a song in dance music; really they arent “songs” per se, but tracks. The structure of techno and house music was developed for the purpose of DJing. You have an intro that you use to mix the track in, then you start bringing the last track out by cutting certain frequencies, and keep doing that until the most prominent sound is coming from the new track. By that point, the new track will have progressed to a point where it has enough energy, or is building its energy up, and then you start taking the old track out and letting it fade into the background. So when i think of “song” i think of something lyrical with discrete chunks where the lyricist and instrumentalists are trying to convey a particular vibe and message. But when i think of “track,” i think of a repetitive pattern that has some progression, but is mostly the same few motifs over and over again. And the reason it doesnt get boring is because its intended to be played in sequence with other patterns with their own motifs
Thank you for all the hard work and deep dives you do. Been watching you for like 2 years now - got into Elektron around 3 years ago after Maschine, a brief MPC disappointment, & turntables - and hope someday I can afford some of your DT2/ST/DN private lessons! I’m originally a rock drummer of 20 years so your approach to composition always makes sense to me - I just struggle to write a great lead like you do, especially the big basslines. Much love from Virginia, Thanks for the many streams of great music and education!
Dude, thank you. I use tons and tons of trigger conditions, and almost no mutes/unmutes in my compositions, and I've been getting increasingly concerned that there's something I'm missing or misunderstanding, since my workflow is completely different than what I see other people doing. I know there aren't any fixed rules for making music, but it's still nice to get a little validation from time to time to let me know I'm moving in the right direction.
I compose deep/hypnotic techno for Digitakt which are intended for live performances. Structure is minimal so no need for huge risers, drops or breakdowns. I'm quite liberal with patterns. 1 hour of playing takes maybe 2 banks (32 patterns) so there is plenty of them still available. No need to cram too much stuff per pattern to make live performance difficult. I use pattern name as a small post-it note area to store my cryptic abreviations about what should be done to the pattern to make it ready to carry on to the next pattern. Patterns are set for pattern mutes which need to be set correctly to move on to another pattern to make it flow. Within a pattern I keep sounds alive byt tweaking parameters. I also detach parts of my live sets as an independent tracks. Usually one track is 3 to 4 patterns long. When composing for good flowing live set usually makes it bit harder to take parts out as an independent track and if having independent track in mind makes it bit more difficult to stich as a part of live set. It is kind of balancing act if you want both.
Very interesting topic, thanks ! I use the Syntakt and the LXR-02 only for my lives. I keep 4 patterns for each song, and use between 2 and 4 patterns. This means that I always know that a song begins using the 1, 5, 9 and 13 buttons. So a project has only 16 songs for me (which is enough for a 45 to 60 mn set for me). Every song is 144bpm. I don't really try to seamlessly go to one song to another like a DJ would do.
🔥TT-303🔥 sounds amazing and I enjoy the pattern mutate function for quick variation (because that 303 sequencer…😅) hope you get more use of yours soon & thanks as always for the great content! On the topic of sequencing ‘songs’ and the number of patterns that works, apart from personal preference, it’s interesting to consider the influence the genre you’re playing has on workflow and pattern use. Whereas with my RYTM and *takt boxes playing techno it’s a lot less patterns to get to a decent live show/series of songs, with my OT when I’m playing it’s typically a Jungle set, and the amount of varied break choppage & (slice/sample) sequencing and sheer variety and number of samples lends itself well to flipping between all 16 patterns of a bank (and all 4 parts) for a ‘song’ which makes for enough variety for a comfortable 1h set with 16 banks (and I’ll use the 8 channels of MIDI to send to a multitimbral rackmount ROMpler or synth which makes for a really tidy live setup along with a dub siren just for the hell of it). And to a degree, genre aside, I look at what the OT has to offer for banks/patterns/parts/etc and say… ‘well, why not use it all?’.😅 Cheers again for the vid.
This is a very interesting topic !!! Thanks for tackling this “what is a song in electronic music” I am also comforted knowing the DT2 glitches for you as well… I love it… and have a lot to learn still… but some things do still seem glitchy. I am having the most trouble with the midi channel machine. Often the settings on the midi channels values not staying consistent and often times unlocking themselves. It’s helpful when you point out the glitches you experience to gauge what is more universal vs what is just my own user error.
Thanks for this discussion on song structure, a very interesting topic that is maybe under-discussed in the electronic music world. I especially appreciate the perspective of song structure actively evolving and being invented by the current community of performers
Great insight - I have a similar-ish setup (DT2+ST+DN+AH+fx plus other synths including a TD-3). Very useful info in here. The DT2 is the master in my setup.
So funny how you pointed out how common a setup like this is down to the 303. I feel like getting a hardware 303 clone (a tt-303 mk2 in my case) really took it to a new level. It's exactly the sound it's supposed to be and it just sounds good no matter what.
It's electronic music...You can have a single pattern that bounces all over the place and takes you in a sonic exploration with lfo's, sweeps, filters, delays, reverb, phasers, etc. You can even bounce it from one sound to another, and explore different landscapes and/or sweep between them. You can also play something with melodies interacting with each others with subtle changes in the patterns over time so that you're eventually listening to something totally different without fully understanding how because the changes were sneaky....16 won't cover it. It's all about YOUR workflow...That makes each of us Unique, even with the same tools. Make YOUR sound, at the risk of not sounding good... Nobody is known for having copied what everyone else was doing. Besides, if you play live, you have to play the crowd and be willing to make a quick transition into something else based on the crowd's reaction.... I like the idea of having a couple of pre-prepared patterns to break, get the attention and drop a new high-energy pattern in to get people back on the dance floor. It works in my style, but I don't think you'd get the same results in the chill out lounge... Play your style, be you...Just make sure you have the Patterns YOU need to keep a crowd going for whatever time your set is. I think of it as one long song. If something worked, you can bring it back in the middle of something else 30 minutes later, in the middle of a whole new sonic scape... The Elektron sequencer is so insane though. If you use the arpegio the right way, you can have entire "patterns" on each trig. It makes 4 tracks way more than 4 tracks. Make noise...
Trigger conditions are the reason I bought my digitone. Per trig editing is insane...I just got it, but I'm already very impressed. I resisted Elektron for years. Without trying it, the setup seems daunting with that little screen and unlabeled buttons. Now that I have it, I think the way it works is actually extremely smart and leads to exploration.
Hey Matthew love your work mate, keep up the great work, I have a question how would you feel about doing a tutorial on voice sampling and implementing into some beats with some melodic sounds
I heard you talking about the max for live device again (to connect elektron devices easier. Is there already more information about this available somewhere? I'm so stocked to hear about this again and can't wait to get my fingers onto that!
Syntakt is great central, mix & match with all other Elektrons easily device imo? It's my favourite to start from, or use as the 2nd Elektron I'll add next to pair & development from... If I've started something on another Elektron or groovebox I've acquired by now. It's got 12 tracks to fill out per pattern, & usually I can nail a pattern I love that is the foundation & groove I can explore development around in extra gear thereafter. Digitone usually ends up with 4-8 patterns I can quickly chain in any way from each other... Rytm may have 3-4 patterns & A4 I make 1-2 main patterns usually. If I decide to use up to 12-16 patterns. It usually with Rytm & Digitone... I may have say 4 pattern variations made in both that work. & I'll copy those 4 each across 4 more patterns. But I use the copies to delete out certain tracks from the filled out initial patterns. Then I can quickly chain up variations of each 4... & they are my variations of those with tracks muted in & out for me to use too.
Hi Matthew sorry to bother you mate, I bought a Digitakt 2 which after watching your kids it's an amazing synth. I watched a video you did 9 months ago called the infinite random melody generator for the first digitakt and have tried to go through the steps so I could do that on the digitakt 2, it's a bit of a minefield for a beginner like myself, could you do a video the same for the digitakt 2 ? I think a lot of crew would love it especially me 😁 if you don't have time I would understand, those beautiful sounds that you produced on the digitakt are so beautiful and I really want to learn some of those techniques you use to get those sounds. I'd do a one on one but the time differences here in Australia is probably not going to allow that. Hope you can help cheers
I tell folks to listen back to the best techno pioneering acts & their initial tracks & lps etc... They are the best examples of electronic tunes made before the DAW age... & often are xoxbox tunes & jams cut into final mixes & tracks. Listen to REZ by Underworld, that track is the foundation & beginnings of their classic Cowgirl. U don't need a heap of patterns to do this & most of the xoxboxs, step sequencers or Samples cut for the tracks have more than 1 or 2 bar limitations in use for the gear or sample memory they could exploit at the time, creating tunes at that time?
Who is Dean and what is his patreon? Can someone give me me a link. Driving a garbage truck at the moment and I don’t want to forget to check out his sample packs later. Cheers
Hey EZBOT, just wanna say that it wasn't my intention to create "drama" in chat; in my opinion the reactions I got were quite exaggerated. As soon as I joined I merely replied to the "what is considered a song" part of the title by stating that a song has singing in it: an instrumental track/piece is not a song, for instance. That's the meaning of the word. Anyway, three or five+ people strongly disagreed (which to me is akin to disagreeing that the sky is, generally speaking, blue in the daytime) and from there on out anything I said was deemed to be "trolling", lol -- even if it was just stating that I'm fine with only having mono capabilities (as on the Digitakt I) -- adding that if it's good enough for Autechre, it's good enough for me -- or that I prefer listening to the Beatles in mono (that is to say the original mixes, and, even after stereo was introduced, the mixes that were afforded most attention by George Martin and crew). That would be some really weak trolling if I was actually trying to do that. Anyway, I appreciate your work, thanks.
I think you are too hang up on terms and genres as a whole. IMO “a song” is a pop music - linear progression that requires a said structure - intro, chorus, verse etc. This structure itself requires melody or phrasing that falls into its own rules. Pretty quickly, you are framed into conventions, where, to be honest is hard to innovate. There are whole musical styles that try to break free from the typical call-response formula and that should inform this discussion. Electronic music in its essence is a reaction against that - music concrete, abstract music, Steve Reich, etc. Electronic music is repetitive, hypnotic and evolving. The emphasis is on evolving sound rather than melody. Hear Erik Satie’s Gymnopedies, which is regarded as an proto-ambient music. I especially like ex-elektron’s Ess approach, inspired by instagram reels, where he plays 1 minute sketches by pressing stop in between and switching abruptly, while manipulating sound in between. Another example is Allesandro Cortini from NIN, who often talks about pop vs abstract. Mistabishi has very evolving DnB sets where each pattern is a variation of the previous and in that sense it doesn’t have structure. Drops - yes, but not pop structure.
I am not sure at what point while watching this video you wrote your comment, but we talked about this during the stream. I am aware these streams are long, so it's easy to miss whole discussions. The analogy was improvised music vs classic song structures. I enjoy discussing genres and using them as a focal point to anchor discussion. I do appreciate your lengthy response to my stream, it's well thought out, but your opening statement feels a bit condescending.
@@EZBOT_ ah my fault - I didn’t hear that part. I do think though that you pay too much attention to genres:) It’s not my intention to insult you in any way!
@@EZBOT_ just a lot of rehearsal finding the right tricks to make my music less static. I use 24 mb of one-shot samples max on a Digitakt MK1 and that´s all. I also use a Faderfox controller to maximize the performance. This little setup rocks
