How Much Power Did Goku Gain Between The Frieza Saga and Cell Saga? 

Well enough probably to beat Mecha Frieza with one finger as a Super Saiyan

Just something to note: while Dr Gero didn’t know about super Saiyan, he did know about the Kaioken technique. So he very likely calculated how strong 17 & 18 needed to be from Goku’s base power increase over time, and then a kk multiplier happening at some point. He likely would have determined that being a new technique it could be honed and amped up higher over time, and would only need a second to kill the androids, so would have to make them outrageously strong. It certainly gives a plausible reason why they were so much stronger and didn’t know about super saiyan.

Your making videos about all the things I’ve ever questioned throughout the series😅this is my favorite dbz channel

Yo! he said the finger is a move he learned from Chi Chi 😂😂😂😂 that caught me off guard

Great vid on yet another topic I hadn't seen delved into!

Little gripe/unreleated but No matter how strong he got I'll always like the Namek SSJ design with the fluffy yellowish/white hair more than Mastered SSJ despite Mastered being the better version of the form, I alway's wish they kept that fluffy effect.

Can’t get enough of your videos bro!! Keep ‘em coming 🙏🏽

I used to have Goku becoming twice as strong as he was back in Namek, to be honest. Enough to handle King Cold and Freeza with one hand behind his back, in a manner of speaking.

Yamcha got stronger from that one failed date in the gravity room lol

I was with you up to your thoughts on post-ROSAT levels. You’re definitely correct with the 200-300 million SSJ estimate after the 3 years training. But if you keep scaling through the rest of the arc by the time they fight Cell they are definitely around 4-5 billion in SSJ form

Great video what thoughts dragon ball super returning

I think it would be cool to see a video is Tienshan could have killed Android 17 or 18 with the Neo Tri-Beam that he used against Semi-Perfect Cell

Great video. Your videos lately LSM have been fire!

LAUGHINGSTOCKMEDIA IS ONE OF THE BEST DRAGONBALL CHANNELS ON RU-vid

Two things that really bugged me about the training the character underwent in this arc. Why didn't the humans use grav-training? Even 10x would've made a significant difference. Not saying they needed to go 300 like Vegeta, but just look at what Goku achieved in 6 days under 100g. Based on how well they improved while training with Kami, and with King Kai - if the humans trained under 100g for 3 years, they might've caught up with, or even exceeded SSJ Goku. The other thing: we know saiyans get zenkai boosts, with bigger boosts granted for having taken more damage... you would think they would want to take MORE damage while training. However, Vegeta all throughout this arc, and Goku and Gohan in the RoSaT, trained with armour on. While would reduce the damge they took and thus reduce the zenkai boost. They didn't use weighted clothing either, as the armour was said to be very light. Imagine if Goku and Gohan used weighted clothing in the RoSaT..... they'd both be able to defeat Super Perfect Cell as Mastered SSJ1. All the heroes in this arc severely hindered their own progress. Oh but "plot reasons yaddy yaddy ya".... yeah well, don't introduce a plot device if you're going to ignore it later on.

Even until the very end of the Buu saga, the power levels were still comprehensible, even if they were very high. You could still draw a through line between Frieza, Cell, and Buu and our heroes power-wise without breaking your brain. For whatever reason the writers decided to make these guys into parodies of themselves in Super where they could just punch cracks in the multiverse by flicking their wrist.

12:18 To be fair King Cold was a very knowledgeable man. Throughout his years he learned quite a few things about the universe. He knew of Majin Buu and Beerus. He even warned his son to never challenge them. So who's to say he didn't know of things like the Z sword? The Z sword is said to make the wielder more powerful so maybe that's why he thought taking Trunks' sword would make him stronger than Trunks

Well thanks to Dbs we know now to learn Instant transmission you have to learn to balance your spirit Aka spirit control and by doing that alone it gave vegeta an incredible power boost before he ever learned any of the Yardrats techniques.

Thank you! I enjoyed the reasoning behind this! I know you personally don't like super but, the feats seen near the beginning of the show or even later on would hint that Gokus base isn't that much higher than the freeza arc. Idk what you think Gokus base is at the end of z. But I never believed it to be a crazy amount stronger than his original 3 million.

500 million is a good estimate considering he was 120 while basically half dead before he transformed and then multiple years of train plus zenki

i am proud to be the reason he fixes things in his videos. as im always pointing things out that he missed/got wrong. and i have to say for this video? you got everything. i have nothing to complain about. subscribed and liked.

If Tienshan didn't always train with chiaotzu and instead trained with Yamcha, Krillin, Piccolo and Base Goku he would be a lot stronger

I think if not for the heart virus already beginning to hurt Goku before his fight with 19 began (Piccolo notices Goku breathing heavy), Goku would have been about equal to Super Saiyan Vegeta; perhaps slightly stronger and would have easily defeated 19! The reason Vegeta was able to close the gap between them is he was only focused on making himself stronger, training like a madman to not only become a Super Saiyan, but also to be stronger than Goku. Whereas Goku spent much of his focus on helping Gohan and Piccolo get stronger, not just himself.

"He probably could have cut Frieza in half with a pool inflatable noodle" my dude.

Laughingstock can you do a video of.Who would win piccolo or android 19?

You know Mike I never actually read the Book Journey to the west. I have watched the film adaptation Journey to the West Conquering the Demons and watched a few episodes of the anime series Saiyuki and Saiyuki Reload online and I might get back to the rest of the Saiyuki Episodes and Saiyuki Reload episodes online in the Future.

The fact that Dr. Gero thought he could surpass SSJ Vegeta by absorbing the energy of characters like Krillin or Tien has always intrigued me. I believe that Toriyama, at the beginning of this saga, wanted to do a sort of reboot regarding the power levels of the characters to try to equalize them a bit, but ultimately, he didn't achieve it.

LSM it’s quite literally the equivalent of going from 300 pounds to 1 pound for Vegeta’s training. I don’t think anyone believed that all the Z warriors were stronger than frieza going into the androids saga. Piccolo’s statement served to highlight just how serious of a threat they would be dealing with and was the impetus fig the warriors to take their training more seriously than ever. Although in reality vegeta seems to be the only one who took his training to the degree necessary to keep up with 14 and 15. His determination was fueled by the humiliation and anger he experienced witnessing 2 others attain ssj before him.

Hey, I know you probably won't see this, but I'd love a video from you about what F. Trunks did during the 3 year time skip. Did he go back to hid timeline, or did he just leave the scene telling everyone and move forward 3 years? This is there biggest issue with the multiple timelines IMO. Because the only explanation that works is that he went back to his timeline, waited 3 years then went to the normal timeline. If he just met Goku and said okay time machine now go FWD 3 years, why could he not do that in his OG timeline.

Piccolo was nearly as strong as Vegeta and Goku on namek toward the end. Piccolo grew strong enough to take Android 20. Are we gonna assume that piccolo grew his base power by 100 fold, and the Saiyans gained like 10-20%? 50 times 1/5 if your power level is still a 10x increase in base

What if Goku went in the HBOT with future Trunks for 2 years when Trunks first arrived.

So glad you explained to the nimwits that thinks goku could easily handle trunks when trunks was only holding back. Plus saying goku got really strong on yardsat when getting strong wasnt even his goal.

I always thought that Trunks and Goku were probably fairly even when they first met, with Goku maybe being a bit stronger. Though, I would say that in terms of pure skill, Goku was definitely better simply because he'd been fighting since long before Trunks was even born

Totally agree

At the very least Goku is 2x stronger than on Namek, basically Goku should be around 6-7 million in base, Trunks being around 6-7 million if we assume he caught up with Goku, with Piccolo being somewhere around 180-240 million if Dr. Gero and Android 19 should be somewhere around Goku's level on Namek, somewhere between 160-230 million seeing as Piccolo alone could fight against Dr.Gero/Android 20 and actually pressure him, Vegeta in base being around 7.5-8 million since they say he's stronger than Goku, Gohan should be around 6 million if we're to believe he's close enough to Goku in power he could go back and forth a bit, Tien is around 6 million, Krillin 3-5 million, and Yamcha around 3-5 million (I do believe Tien might be stronger, he had a partner to train with and his power growth in underrated..) Chiaotsu probably around 1-2 million, so overall everyone is fairly relative aside from Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo..but then the power jump from them to 16, 17, 18, and Cell is insane..18 should be at around 700-800 million, 17 is around 800-900 million, Kamiccolo should be around 1-1.2 billion with 16 being about 1.5 billion and Cell being 1.4 billion, I got these numbers through multipliers and how they compare against Vegeta, Goku, and Trunks in Super Saiyan, 50 times Goku and Trunks should be at 300-350 million with Vegeta being at 375-400 million which if we take Trunks' example, he could fight one of the androids from the future and they're weaker than the ones in the present, so the math adds up that they are around that level in this timeline, I could get into the levels for after Imperfect Cell, but the levels are ridiculous..the multiplier for Neo Tri Beam is over a thousand times, if we say Semi-Perfect Cell is even 3-4x stronger that makes sense since it damaged him..making Tien's strongest move's multiplier at this point 6 billion..so I can see why they stopped trying to record power levels at this point...

You should make a video on how Goku refused Purunga bringing him to Earth. Is it as simple as Purunga asking Goku hey you want to come back to Earth? Did they have some sort of communication. 😅

Correct me if I'm wrong but in battle of Gods doesn't it say goku in base isn't stronger then 100% Frieza

Me personally i in the cell saga i would put Tienshan at 3 million, Krillin and Yamcha at 1 to million for powr level at least

Far as I’m concerned 😂…Yamcha got his power boost from trying to make it to the power button to turn it off…when he was messing with the gravity machine on the capsule corp.ship😎😎😎

I think Goku knew about basically everything on Namek after he read Krillins mind if I’m correct. So i think he was more angry about him losing his friend again not that he couldn’t be brought back.

Wish they would have made an episode or 2 of him training

I got a question, was it just a simple art style change with no story relevance that Goku's ssj form from namek looks quite different from his ssj form from the cell saga and so on from there or is there some other explanation for Goku's ssj hair changing it's look? Maybe mastered ssj is why it looks different?

You should cover what if Bulma made the z fighters all gravity chambers to train in or what if Krillin Tien and Yamcha trained together rather than separately. or both and they trained together in a gravity chamber. and what if piccolo used his 2nd year in the Time chamber to train up Tien as it tri beam is insane and Tien then split his last year to train year to train up krillin and then yamcha and after they would use their remaining time to train together. so all the z fighters used 2 years in the time chamber imagine the different they could make in the anime when blasting super perfect cell during the beam struggle.

Even though we are at God levels now at Super. I always loved how much he grew between the Frieza and Cell sagas.

I have a hart time believing that the SS1 transformation is a 50x multiplier or at least not consistantly (we are talking about Toriyama after all). Goku was very heavily battle damaged and worn out when he first transformed and Toriyama wanted a final epic fight. I personally believe that the SS1 transformation is more then a 50 times multiplier but that is just me.

My problem is you don’t think Base Goku and Vegeta in the Buu arc are above Namek Frieza in base

Y'know as much as Chi Chi's sword gag from Master Roshi's joke of her being why Goku isn't coming back comes out of nowhere because haha... Chi Chi owning a sword to begin with makes sense considering her being the Ox King's daughter. I don't doubt Ox King would have had more than just an axe in an armory, and also it would have been cool if Chi Chi actually knew how to wield a sword. Maybe Gohan would have been a swordsman himself, or used any other number of weapons if Chi Chi thought bare martial arts would be great supplemented by weapons usage.

Hey Mike, what do you think about the power levels in the databooks? Goku jumps from 80 thousand to 3 million it's too difficult for my suspension of disbelief to accept.

This aint a big deal in terms of this video, but it’s always bothered me how, after such a massive jump in power in the saiyan arc, how the Earthlings NEVER train together 😂

Chi Chi definitely has the strongest back in DB

the other thing is though, it's stated in universe that Gero's spy drone that was watching Goku witnessed and collected data from his fight with Frieza, are we to believe in the main timeline that the drone was not there to witness Trunk go super saiyan and kill him with ease? was Gero not able to collect data from the drone/s in that 3 years?

I'm commenting this before the video starts but I always assumed Goku got a Zenkai boost from recovering from the Heart Virus as well. I feel like someone might have covered this already.

Can you do a video on if Vegeta could beat Frieza and King Cold after Namek but before he turns SSJ?

Senzu Beans… The ultimate performance enhancing drug…

If SSJ grade 4 Son Goku was able to use the Kaio-Ken as well could he beat beat Perfect Cell or if Goku use the spirit bombs or absorb it

i think when goku was training gohan and piccolo, he went super saiyan. but when he was training himself, he fought gohan and piccolo at base

Mike, I just realized that the androids were surprised Goku could become super saiyan, however both trunks and goku went super saiyan after frieza amd king cold arrived on Earth. Dr. Gero obtained Friezas DNA to create Cell so they should have had knowledge of the SSJ transformation right?

I'd argue that the humans always got more out of training than Goku did, all the humans were stronger than raditz besides Chiaotzu in the Saiyan Saga so it might be a bad argument. Both the cell and Frieza Saga imply that Goku had gained self-mastery, meaning there was no master above him that he could learn from. This is probably true for the Z Fighters as well. This is of course retconned in super but not really, even the manga implies that ultra instinct is just stuff Goku's already learned. The room of Spirit and Time gravity levels are lower then the gravity chamber. The room of Spirit and Time is just an asspull. Technically these characters had around 5 years of training as Goku didn't return for around 2 years.

Mike do think SSJ grade 4 Son Goku or Gohan could have beat Perfect Cell taking energy from Super Vegeta, Ultra Trunks, Kamiccolo, Tienshan, Krillin, and Yamcha they would win? Like how Broly was defeated

So i would love to see a video honestly power scaling the humans. I would say at the beginning of the android saga Piccolo could take freeza on Namek. Based on that filler fight in the anime which i say still counts yamcha and Tien were easily in the hundreds of thousands so its not unreasonable to think Krillin and them cleared 1 million by the time the androids showed up. Now by Buu could Tien or Krillin hang with Freiza? Sadly i dont think so, but they would have had a better showing than they did in the Freiza saga

The first character that logically may have broken a billion, would be either Semi Perfect Cell, or Trunks and Vegeta after they left the RoSaT.

I was always confused if ther was a Kaio-Ken x2 because in the games there is but like Kaio-Ken is already double the power of a base from what does x2 mean then

King Cold drinking that Copium.

I thought Prince Vegeta train in 500x gravity

Power Level..Lets See(Daizenshuu States That if you take no damage from the attack then you are at least twice as stronger as you opponent or the Ki Blast attack your Oppenent is outputting. Based On Power Scaling 1: The Andriod 18 and 17 future or Current I bare minimum twice as Strong Namek SS1 Goku. Over 300 Million. 2:Imperfect Cell absorbing so Many Humans Tanked Piccolo Ki attack without Damage That Even 17 Ducked for cover..Over 600 Million. Suppressed Semi Perfect Cell Tanked Andriod 16 Punch without Damage: Over 1 Billion and 200 Million Super Vegeta Between 1.3 and 1.5 Billion. Semi Perfect Cell at Full Power was Able To Damage and Slightly Make Vegeta Bleed..But Damage Was Minimumal. Suppressed Perfect Cell: Betwen 2.6 and 3 Billion. Tanked Vegeta Kick with Do Damage. 50% SS Full Power Goku: (Guide Book States Its Ten times a stronger the unmaster SS1 Form): Stronger Then Super Vegeta by Huge Margin and Korrin Had to put Thought if 50% Goku Could Win oe not against Supprssed Perfect Cell: Bare Minimum/Lowball: Over 2 Billion 100% SS Full Power Goku: Over 4 Billion Full Power Perfect Cell: 6 Billion Suprssed Rage Boosted SS2 Gohan Tanking Perfect Cell Punch Without Damage: Over 12 Billion Mentally Nerfed SS2 Gohan with Broken Arm: Held his Own against Super Perfect Cell.. Was 50% Due to Be mentally defeated: 10 Billon Super Perfect Cell: Over 12 Billion Enraged SS2 Gohan at Full Power Finish Cell: Over 24 Billion. In the original translation Goku after 7 years of Training Rival or Surpass Rage boosted SS2 Gohan in Cell Games. Buu Saga Base Goku: 25 Million SS grade 4: 12.5 Billion SS2 Goku: 25 Billion SS3 Goku: 100 Billion. So Base Buu Saga Goku is over 8 Times Stronger then Namek Base Goku. While Buu Saga SS Grade 4 Goku is over 83 Times More powerful then Namek SS Goku.

When Trunks tested Goku: Goku: 210 million Trunks: 180 million

I absolutely agree Goku does not reach the billion mark at that, i however think he is stronger than what you think because you forgot a key point: the zenkay boost he got after Namek. He nearly died in tha explosion so even withouth training he got stronger because of that, let's add the 3 years training, i believe his power level is now in the 400-500 million range... maybe closer to 400 million.

what I don't get is, when Goku is healed after his battle with vegeta in the saiyan saga, why do people still say his power level as being 8k? he should have zenkai'd from that healing, right?

20:00 I think besides maybe Piccolo none of them Z-fighter was even close to Frieza's 1. form and forget his true Form. I don't even believe than any of them could have beat Frieza during Boo Saga.

Plot twist just because we didn't see the whole training the humans did. What if the humans excluding Chaozu and Yajirobe were training under a higher gravity. There is always the possibility of them using a higher gravity as well as Gohan and Piccoro Jr. and not just sparing with Kakarrot. Now don't attack me in the comments because I know nothing is proven it's just a theory. Also I know the movies are on a separate timeline, however if some of them were cannon then movies 4 & 5 could easily fit into the timeline as well as 8 later. So there was a potential here for getting a power boost.

Make the video: Why Goku did not took his medicine given by Trunks?

When Goku fought Frieza, he had a power level of 3 million. When he originally transformed it was likely 2-2.5 million from being in a weakened state and slowly crept back up as he continued to fight Frieza. When Trunks arrives, Goku likely has a base power level of approximately 3.5-4.5 million to Trunks’ 3-3.5 million When the Androids arrive, Goku & Vegeta have base power levels of approximately 6-8 million, which might not seem like much but is basically double (or triple-quadruple in Vegeta’s case) what they accumulated throughout the series to that point. The others all likely doubled or tripled their powers as well, with the exception of Piccolo, who benefited greatly from training with SSJ Goku and likely even put himself above Frieza. This makes perfect sense to me because in creating Android 19, Gero likely expected Goku to have a base power of 6-15 million and the ability to perform a 15-20x Kaioken, which is why he is so surprised but not completely intimidated by the Super Saiyan form, because he actually expected Goku to be as strong as he was in base form. When fighting Cell, Goku likely has a base power level of approximately 27 million and Gohan is upwards of 30 million, which would put their ascended SSJ forms (x75 multiplier) in the 2 billion to 2.4 billion range. Not even a year of actually training against another Super Saiyan allowed them to surpass both Vegeta & Trunks quite easily. This also makes sense to me because in creating Androids 16, 17 & 18, Gero was likely prepared for Goku to have a base power of 20-25 Million and the ability to perform a 20-30x Kaioken. He needed Androids that could defeat a Goku fighting at power levels of 400-750 million for brief periods of time. He could have no way of knowing that Goku could discover forms that would give him 50-75x multipliers.

Who's lore on the saiyans is more accurate? Vegetas? Namekian book of legends? or Zunos?

Here's a discussion. How much of a Zenkai boost did Goku get when he recovered in the hospital before he left for Namek?

I think the official power levels are inconsistent. Here are the figures I came up with for Goku... FRIEZA SAGA Goku, Suppressed: 3.6 million Goku, Base: 4 million Fights at this level against Frieza for the most part. Goku, Base: 4.8 million Power increases after recovering. Comes back from near-death after Frieza connects with the Nova Strike. Super Saiyan Goku: 240 million Goku's power as a Super Saiyan Goku fluctuates heavily throughout the fight. This is the final power level I have him at. One year later.... TRUNKS SAGA Goku: 6 million Super Saiyan Goku: 300,000,000 Three years later... ANDROID SAGA Goku: 18 million Super Saiyan Goku: 900 million This is if he's healthy, of course.

Hi

Post Namek pre RoSaT Goku was so fkn hot

I've always assumed that he first gained then actually LOST strength right before Androids 19 & 20 showed up as he started being symptomatic for the Heart Virus.

I do agree Goku was stronger after Namek and the 3 years training for the Androids but I don't think by leaps and bonds the two biggest improvements were obviously Vegeta who became a Super Sayisn and was probably stronger than Goku on Namek whereas Piccolo was probably on par with Goku on Namek if not out right stronger. I do think Freiza got stronger as one of the Freiza Force bases was monitoring the battle which we see and it even measures both Freiza and Goku's power levels so chances are Freiza is roughly as strong as Goku was on Namek if not maybe a little stronger to make sure he would win. But also given who what Cell is maybe up of Dr. Gero knew who Freiza and King Cold were as Cell clearly knows some of Freiza's techniques and even has some of Freiza's personality.

Goku was not more powerful than Trunks when they sparred. They were the same strength. He was just far more skilled due to way more training and experience.

I can't wait for part 2 as I'm surprised u scaled Soo low For my scaling Htc trained SSJ in 10s-100s millions As I have perfect cell/gohan in hundreds of millions I've never scaled this high back in the day You'd be surprised the Namek saga broke Dragonball scale even more than android saga Here how I scale Goku 90k to 150mil is 1,666.67 times increase on namek 875mil v androids 160bil vs cell Meaning from namek to cell Only 1,066times increase Don't get me started on gohan

Yeah, the thing Frieza wasn't taking into account was the fact that Goku was injured during their fight on Namek. Goku wasn't even close to his full power during their battle.

How long was trunks a super sayian before he went back in time?

Trunks testing Goku is the Vegeta side in Him Wanting to Test Kakarot

Personally, if the statement in bog is accurate. Goku in base would be weaker than Final Form Frieza. So anywhere between 90-110 mill. High ball estimate. Now, Goku trains for a year or so on Yardrat. Goes maybe from 3 million to 6 million. After three years training with a weaker piccolo and Gohan, he would have gained a bigger boost but not that much. Prob went to 12-14 million base. About double to what he had after returning from yardrat. Which was difficult training there. And training with Gohan in hyperbolic time chamber would he substantial. Probably would be around 24-32 million. So double or more. Add in a stronger super Saiyan form. Would make sense and this could fit in line with BoG statement from Beerus.

He probably got stronger, but not very much. And yeah, I think King Cold has to be weaker. Freeza implies it himself, that he will prove that he's the strongest in the universe, which only makes sense if he's stronger than Cold. In the anime it's said that Cold is stronger, but Freeza probably wasn't using his full power yet (since he needs some time to power up), and that would also explain why he went down so easily. And weirdly enough, I don't think he got that much stronger in the three years of training either. Like, after Trunks came back, was there anything that actually implied that Goku and Vegeta were that much stronger than him? If they were still relative, then Goku didn't get that much stronger. Which is kinda silly, because three years is a lot of time, and in that same amount of time, Piccolo went from a power level of like, 1 million, to SSJ levels. So, he became over 150 times stronger between fusing with Nail and 19 and 20 showing up, and that was after, in a short amount of time, going from Raditz level to getting strong enough to impress Nail, who was like, Ginyu Force level. Piccolo's potential is insane. Imagine if he actually learned the Kaioken. And trained with Whis in Super. With Kaioken x20 Ultimate Orange God Ultra Instinct Piccolo, on top of an SSJ-tier base form, there would have been no plot.

Hey I got a question so do you think spear control make you stronger or helps you control your power better can you do a video on that or how much stronger did Vegeta get after spear control with yardrat

I have it like this Goku(Vs Freeza)=3.000.000 Goku(Kaioken x10)=30.000.000 Goku(Kaioken x20)=60.000.000 Goku(Super Saiyajin)=150.000.000 Goku(Post Yardrat)=4.000.000 Goku(Super Saiyajin)=200.000.000 Goku(3 Years later)=6.000.000 Goku(SS,Sick)=150.000.000-300.000.000 Goku(SS,Not Sick)=300.000.000

How strong was Goku post Vegeta battle before training on the ship with gravity? He should have gotten a zenkai boost

I can clearly see in the manga in the Video when I pause here. Goku saying "I just won't let you.. you're not gonna get away with this" when Goku saw Frieza killing his best friend Krillin by exploding him from the inside in the air. I know in the original Z dub Goku says "I won't let you get away with this" and in the Dragon Ball Kai dub I guess because the Kai dub producers wanted to make it more dramatic they make Goku say "you ruthless heartless bastard! I will make you suffer! I prefer Sean Schemmel's Performance in the Kai dub."

We see more range of power in SSJ1 than the other transformations. By the time Toriyama got to SSJ2, he seemed to have kind of abandoned the concept of unlocking different "grades" or gaining mastery over a transformation (at least, we never hear the characters explicitly state anything about mastering SSJ2, there is some dialogue that may suggest it). By Buu saga, if a saiyan needed more power they'd just gain a totally new transformation or y'know, fuse. But the thing that always kind of seems strange is that going from SSJ1 to SSJ2 simply doubles the power (SSJ is widely considered a 50x multiplier, SSJ2 is 100x), but it seems like the feats accomplished by SSJ and its different sub-grades require the power to have been multiplied by many-fold before SSJ2 was ever introduced. 100% power Frieza on Namek was able to hold his own a bit against SSJ Goku. The battle was more back-and-forth in the anime, but Frieza seemed comparable in power to a "newbie" Super Saiyan. Then when Trunks is introduced, SSJ can now merc two characters stronger than that with minimal effort. If Goku was equal or a bit above Trunks, that suggests his power had at least doubled when he arrived back on Earth, from fighting somewhat evenly with 100% Frieza to defeating someone of that power level with ease. I also remember in the Funi dub when Vegeta and Trunks emerge from the Spirit and Time chamber Vegeta states he can beat Cell by himself, Goku says something to the effect of _"Your power would've had to at least tripled to do that"_ I don't recall what the line was in the original manga (it was probably something completely different and the Funi statement thrown in there to be dramatic), but it was weird hearing a line suggesting that going from SSJ to SSJ Grade 2 triples the power of a Super Saiyan while it's stated SSJ to SSJ2 just doubles it. But at the same time, it made sense because Cell was already much, much stronger than the Androids, who were way stronger than the Super Saiyans. Someone only twice as strong as SSJ Goku on Namek couldn't possibly win against Semi-Perfect Cell let alone Perfect. I can only assume that SSJ2 actually doubles the power of a SSJ Grade 4/Full Power Super Saiyan and that a Full Power SSJ's power has already been multiplied several times from that of a newbie Super Saiyan, but we never find out exactly how much the power increase is from SSJ > SSJ Grades 2 and 3 > SSJ Grade 4 which really would help get a grasp on the amount of power Goku gained.

I feel like the human characters are approaching Final form frieza levels by the end of their 3 years training, but that's about it. (keep in mind these goofballs rapidly surpass whoever the last major villain was at great speed, going from below Young adult Goku to surpassing Raditz in a year) but yeah, I don't think Goku at this point was like several times stronger than the previous saga just yet.

I like to think trunks and Goku are roughly the same in power during the beginning of the android saga.

Both Lord Frieza & Perfect Cell where turned into jobbers after Thier sages and were made examples out of by Future Trunks and Pikkion

Post 3 years; SsVegeta-340 million Ss Goku- 320 million Ss trunks- 250 million Piccolo- 85 to 150 million Gohan- maybe 4 million Tiens- 3.5 million (tri beam many hundreds times stronger) Krillin- 3.2 million Yamcha- maybe 2 million

This title should be changed to Android Saga and not cell

Well strength comes from Ki control, not weight. We don't know what training they did. These guys sensed Goku before, and trunks, and they still thought Goku was in another level. There's always the debate about whether Vegeta was stronger. Piccolo seems unsured at first. But then seems more sure. But it's possible Goku never showed him his full power. The difference was probably not huge if there was one. Either way there's benefits to teaching in real life and benefits to training with others. If Goku thought increasing gravity was viable, he could have done it himself. It was his idea. Gero had a predictive model for Goku's strength. Fact that yamcha set it off, it's reasonable to think they got significantly stronger. Seems Gero was wrong about all of them even without ssj.

Goku definitely had a PL over 8k when he started his trip to Namek. Vegeta got a massive Zenkai from the fight, why would goku be the same, when with even your own relative Zenkai theory, which i love, means Goku faced a being with a PL of ~180k

I want to see the AU where Trunks cut Frieza in half with a pool noodle

As a kid when I power scaled I didn't increase the z fighters power that much from the Frieza saga now( androids-19/20 300-500mil.....17-18 400-900mil.... .but now with more understanding 19-20 in range as above but 17/18 now in 2-4 billion. Earthlings are in the 10s of millions but not FP frieza