You are making some of the best ebike related content on YT. Love your honesty, transparency, and light-hearted presentation style. Keep up the good work. ps - thinking of hiring your services regarding electric trike/bike conversion advice
This was really good, I think i have so much more of a feel for how much this stuff should cost now. Also you sprinkled in some opinions about the brands here and there, thats also really helpful. Keep it going man 👍👍
This is precisely why this conventional bike only mechanic got in to e-bikes. My friends were getting ripped off and I could build better for an average of half the price and convert for the best bike at even less.
I i've been searching for some place in the Long Beach, CA. area to convert my bike to an e-bike places just tell me they don't because they don't want to install torque arms/plates, or there's too much maintenance/cost involved for conversions compared to a purpose built bike.
@@unholyrevenger72 they are ignorant. Torque arms are for hub drives only. If you could get them to remove your existing crank, the rest of the install is a snap on almost all bikes. Feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns as long as godparents planning illegal speeds or a throttle. I will be happy to walk you through it.
@@MHH3180 They aren't ignorant, they just want to sell me a $2K bike, and don't want to spend time maintaining a custom machine that get's brought in, vs the ease of maintenance on purpose built bikes with standardized parts.
@@unholyrevenger72 the reason I can't believe is once again, torque arms are a questionable need for hub drives. Also, Bafsng and Tongsheng are far more off the shelf than any factory e-bikes (I have five brands available to me). You can get internals from Grainger of all places! Bosch, Shimano and Brose don't let their dealers handle warranty work and constantly need updates. They are both ignorant and don't really want to have anything to do with e-bikes.
Hey Johnny, I walked into a bike shop yesterday near my job and the first electric bike I walked up to had a $4,250 price tag!! Am still watching videos and researching. Peace jh
Just look on selling apps like Offerup or websites like Craigslist and search for ebike local sellers, usually these people buy in bulk from China ebike sellers or manufacturers so they will sell it cheaper locally. I live in Sacramento, CA and found a local dealer from Offerup who sold me a ebike $400 off the retail price offered on the brand's website.
Ive ridden my Specialized turbo vado sl for a year with no problems and it's been a blast ! 1200 miles, i have a specialized shop right by me that is super helpful and plans all kinds of rides ! So fun, really the way to go
I (shamefully) bought a Giant Roam E in June for $2200, and I've been very happy with it for casual riding. For a Class 1 bike, I think it's very good. I was happy to see Giant was not one of the highest offenders on your list. I really like the Yamaha controller vs the Bosch. I wanted to build my own, but at the time just too many parts were not available, or were about as expensive as buying one of the "Big 3" bikes (Trek, Giant, Specialized). Thank you for your content. Because of you I totally stopped looking at hub-drives and went straight for the mod-drives.
Great video. I've been watching your channel to learn. I have no interest in building a bike, but trying to make sense of what's out there has been soooo confusing. This is a great help. I'd like to see you assess many more ebikes.
solid video, no suprise that pedego is wayyyy over valued. I have only seen their shops in very upscale neighborhoods. Selling medicore bikes to people who are not caring what the price is. conversions are the best value. bbshd best mid drive motor for the money. hope to see more builds with it on the channel
I'm laid here in my critical care bed after having a brain tumour removed so glad that I'm a subscriber and that I have a full suspension frame and a bdshd waiting for me to build when I get home thanks Johnny I'd be stuck in the house instead of tearing up the trails you're the. Man i love this channel
Have a great Sunday Densel. May that tumor stay away forever n ever... You should make a video when you start your bike conversion. Talk about motivating 💖
Just put together my first e-bike, used 'vary little' Specialized hard rock disc 26 $270, 750w mid drive $489, 48v 20ah, up to 30amp discharge rate triangle battery w/4 amp charger $375, shift sensor $20 total $1154 +$30 for tools. About to go for the maiden voyage. Wish me luck. I have a small MC shop and am looking to branch out into e-bikes.
Great video. I did basically the same thing very recently and just thought I was being cheap, lol. So I bought a retrofit fit. It provides me so many more usage options and generally a lighter bike. Build strength/longevity is yet to be determined.
Wanted to thank you for helping out getting my BaFang config driver problem sorted out. Well done. Also want to thank you for all your videos as it definitely kept me moving in the right direction with my BaFang 750w mid-drive kit build on my wife's old department store mountain bike. Cheers.
After watching your channel, I decided you were RIGHT! Got my ‘90’s Giant Rincon out of storage and started the retro fit. This is NOT my dream bike, but am keeping an eye on the cruiser of my dreams. Bought a guy’s experimental 1,000 watt rear hub, 48v/20ah battery with throttle only. It was on a WallyWorld “MTB” with NO BRAKES!!! Got that for 400 bills! Giant will have all new shifters, brakes, cables, bars, tires, chain and custom pedals(disabled vet). I don’t think I will have 600 into it, to find out if I like it enough to go balls out with one of your projects. Definitely NOT buying a factory ebike…..thanks to you!
People are scared to convert their own, they think I'm amazing for for doing mine for £300 when in fact it was pretty easy just gotta pay attention to the torque arm fitting especially. Ebikes are in fashion and prices are whatever the manufacturers think they can get away with but they have to honor warantee repairs and run shops paying staff etc etc.
Great Video! I got a Giant Roam E for my son, its a great bike however they are all speed limited. I paid $2,250 for it from a local bike shop. I like it alot and now I want an ebike HOWEVER, I am not going to spend that kind of money again, I am building a Bafeng HD powered bike from my old Giant hard tail. Thanks for the inspiration Mr. Nerdout 👍
I got a Giant Roam E for my son, its a great bike however they are all speed limited. I paid $2,250 for it from a local bike shop. I like it alot and now I want an ebike HOWEVER, I am not going to spend that kind of money again, I am building a Bafeng HD powered bike from my old Giant hard tail. Thanks for the inspiration Mr. Nerdout 👍
Depends on the dealership, I got a good deal on a e bike from the local shop. $2000 off the MSRP of $5000. That was a special sale. You can haggle with this shop too. From the owners, they like getting more bikes sold because they can get more accessories sold and Service maintenance. Never pay retail.
@@stanhry Not-knowing what you got probably $5,000 was a bit overpriced for what it is but $3,000 is pretty-much the minimum for a decent bike so sounds like you got a good deal 🤗
Purchased a pre made thinking it would better than my build but I was wrong. I would suggest taking the time to plan a self build. Thanks for the info!
Ditto about your content: it's terrific! Your comparison vids are proving a great help as I debate whether to buy a completed one or the kit so as to upgrade one of current bikes. Thanks!
Golly, they really are ripping off many people. I'm glad I found your video, you and Ride MTB Every Day, are among those who have pointed out, these are all the same bike with very small differences and large marketing budgets. Because of you I've realized I can totally take one of the bikes I already have and upgrade it into an E bike.
Good way to break it down so people can see just how much they really rip you off. And when you buy a pre fabricated ebike your now stuck with that size battery.😁 Thanks for the video
I may be 73 in July but as we communicated with your consultation I am determined to build my own even with the shipping problems I have here. Putting funding together and will be back in touch.
I've got a 3rd hand 2017 cube hybrid thats had 3 frames, 2 motors(manufacturers free replacement) 2 forks...etc, etc...original battery.It cost me £1000 pounds..It is the most expensive yet best bang for the buck bike I've ever used!
Late to the game here, but the Trek is full suspension, about 100 mm of rear travel, as I recall. They marketed the bike as a e-cross country racing bike.
It would have been interesting to see an "Lectric XP 2.0" in the bunch. Good specs and value - easy to see why they sold so well. I tell XP owners to get a 2nd battery if they want to run it hard, it's @ 68 lbs and will use up batteries on steep hills. An e-bike is just motor and battery. Buying an extra battery is the easiest way to boost Range and performance
Tire pressure is the surest way to maintain range. Sane tire widths and tread second. Quality components, generally not available on factory e-bikes, is third. Take a look at most factory e-bikes. They'll have stamped steel hubs and old fashioned screw on freewheels intead of cassettes (kind of weak).
I am waiting for my Lectric XP 2.0 to ship in two weeks -- on second round of "upgrade" shipments. Hopefully you can include Lectric 1.0 too. Keep up the good work!
I think other stuff like fancy materials, exotic manufacturing techniques, custom software/apps, factory location, marketing and general overheads are a big factor for some of these. But I really love the custom builder perspective on this. It's something I never really considered outside of Louis Rosmans exploding bike🔥! Still, it's all academic this side of the world, no way we could pay anything close to retail without getting runners to smuggle parts or whole bikes from South Africa.
I would love to build my own . But lack the expertise and for that matter the patience . But 3 of the companys you listed that were not that far off , just so happen to be bikes im interested in . So i do not feel so bad . That being said . You have me looking at Sondors now too . Nice bike .
Love your videos and analysis of each one. So, you are the GoodRx of electric bikes and stuff? So what is a "good" profit? How much does a company deserve for ROI on a factory, staff, their benefits, a real parts department, etc. How would your analysis work on Radpower, Bolton ebikes and The Electric Bike Company? Is it really practical for us average ebike users to source our own components and build a bike? Just some random thoughts.
Great questions! Yes it is absolutely easy for an average person to build an amazingly better ebike at a fraction of the cost. “Good” profit is totally relative. 30%? My estimates include margins though. They are retail prices I quote, not wholesale.
Great video man. I had an ecotric fat bike 36v 500w that was $849 and the himiway cruiser which is now $1599 both seem like good value for the money. Ecotric is nice and the himiway has more power as well as great range.
I saw your mid-drive vs hub motor e-bike kit comparison. Because of that, I ended up buying a mid-drive kit and I love it. I noticed why hub motors suck, and they truly do for my purposes lol. Thx.
when the pedelec trend took off here and i saw the first prices in stores i felt cheated, the cheapest ones are about the same price as a fully stocked and insurance included 2stroke skooter
Pretty good comparative, however in fairness you missed on the Biktrix Juggernaut Duo. Mine has a center drive 750w motor. And you missed the second battery. Mine has matching 17.5 watt hour batteries.
Looks like they have several variants under the “duo” name. Mid drives and hub drives, single and dual batteries. Very confusing. I had the same thought.
@@JohnnyNerdOut The duo series are either hub or mid drive but all have 2 batteries. Hence the name duo. They also make versions with only one battery but they don't call them duo's. It's my second ebike, so I'm no expert. Really liking the mid drive motor. It's much better than my hub drive by Ariel Rider.
I'm looking bro buy a E bike so this was helpful. I don't want a mountain bike but I want something with a little more suspension than a rigid frame. There are so many of them out there.
Excellent video and channel. I’ve learned so much and appreciate all you do. Gracias! I have a question about ensuring an add-on is legal here in CA. In general, class one and class two bikes are legal but not class three. From Wiki - A "class 2 electric bicycle," or "low-speed throttle-assisted electric bicycle," is a bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour. Can you buy add on motors that are governed not to assist beyond the limit? Also, here in the Golden State, there has to be a sticker affixed stating what class the bike is. Do you happen to have any information about how to do that if governed motors are available? Thanks so much. 🤙
Johnny.. have you noticed that the really good Schwalbe marathon PLUS, BigApplePLUS, and BigBenPLUS on the market are all out of stock..? You can't find a 20"x 1.75 or higher, a 26x1.75 or higher anywhere on the market.. I use to order them out of London UK, because the USA Schwalbe market was out of stock for the last year.. Now you can't even find these quality high grade tires anywhere.. get out the penicillin the world has run out of rubber. What are your thoughts..? I know that the ebike market is all coming from China/Thailand.. And the shipping containers have doubled in price and there are mass shortages across the world.. Good thing you can yake a regular bike and convert it to assist... :) Are you having trouble sourcing Bafang Mid-drive kits to do conversions..? Hopefully you are stocked up before the last of the supply dries up.. Robb PDX
My bike still ended up costing me quite a bit to make, all in cdn funds: $1100 bike $1000 bbhd $500 52v battery $300 lekkie bling 40t $60 luna bbshd frame mount $30 kmc chain $75 gear and y splitter $12 bafang spacers $23 kickstand $100 tools $3200 x 2 is $6400 cause I did one for the wife too Then stuff I needed to upgrade lol, $1150 1up bike rack, $210 ebike repair stand
Johnny, I want a bike or trike for hunting in some trashy (limbs, blowdowns, ets) woods with many animal trails. I know you prefer e-bikes. I am considering one. I am 71, have bad legs but can get around, and am basically lazy when I can get away with that. Would an e-bike or e-trike...or a non e version work best for me? I want to pull a small wagon behind the bike/trike. I will also use it for fishing along a few lakes, rivers and ponds. Thanks Ron PS is there any such thing as a bike rack for a trike, besides the roof of a car or the bed of a pickup?
All European e-bikes with quality parts and 250W motors (cant get more than that due to restrictions) and 500Wh batteries seem to be at least 2200 - 2700 $
This proved that many bikes are far overpriced for their actual components. Sellers (especially local bike shops) deserve to make a good profit, but integrity should dictate that they don’t “rob” buyers (even in this crazy market).
Where would the labor cost of assembling / converting/ adjusting the bike fit in? Are you including that as part of your “bike” price estimate? I’m curious How do you price that particular aspect.
@@JohnnyNerdOut In this video you’re talking about the cost of ebikes based on the components, and the cost of the motor and battery. and then comparing that to the MSRP of the bike. Where does the cost of labor, assembly, etc fit in? When you do conversions what is the typical cost of your labor? My point is that you’re comparing the cost of components to the MSRP of a fully assembled ebike, if that makes sense. Even if i have a bike, battery, and motor, i don’t quite have a fully assembled ebike until yknow, someone converts & assembles it. Unless you factor in the cost of conversion , its a somewhat apples and oranges comparison
@@soandsononame8750 im sorry but your wrong. at most 500$ would be the laborer cost. not a excess of 1000$. especially when these bikes are designed for electrical application which means assembly is even easier than a bike not designed to fit diy kits. take a look at the market and how labour cost are already priced in with in the DIY space and how you get the same bike essentially but with out the extra $$$$$. if you prefer a big name brand like bosch to be on your motor then so be it but your paying for the name.... not labour or assembly.
@@victorokeahialam8925 victor mate, i didn't put any numbers or price on the labor. That was my question; I'm curious about how much is the cost of labor/assembly. I'm still wondering how much johnny charges for his services, because that would factor into the cost as well. I am more of a DIY person myself, but i dont think DIY is for everyone.
Would a Mongoose Terrex 27.5 be a good bike to turn into an ebike? I can get the Mongoose for $200. Just don't know much about bike prices. I want a mid drive kit
I'm convinced I need a " mid - drive ." How about the " Rambo 750 Ryder 24 " ? I rode it and the bigger ( Ugh) model. OR the" Rad 750 Rover " ? But they don't make a mid - drive it seems (?)
This is a question, I’m new to the E bike I just finished watching your video on the values and type of components on several different E-bikes. There’s one you didn’t mention and it’s the ZOOMO SPORT can you or someone with the knowledge help learn the pros and cons of it?
Looks like manufacturers are doing 150 mark up and the retail are doing the same 150 mark up. Instead of a typical 100 and 100 mark up. Which seems to be the mark up most retail uses. Time to buy out city bike auctions convert them all to basic bikes and list some store stock. I was a bit mad i couldn't just buy a basic conversion used bike from you. Build up some stock for us. Wife and I need some starter mountian bikes for the rv. Local bike shop is only stocking a $10k ebike. But we do live in Fruita though. Come down for the headless chicken fest and take everyones spare bikes back to your shop and convert them. One trip back to dropp of 20-40 convertions. Thanks and I love what youre doing. We do want you to make money and have a good direct to buyers Internet shop.
Is there a value for support? I have built 5 ebikes and also have a Stunner X bike from Biktrix for my wife. Yes it was a bit more in price but it is a quality bike with integrated,battery,lighting,hydraulic braking,rack adjustability etc. There support is second to none, they even reprogrammed the BBSO2 on line for me. That has got to add value to a quality ebike company. That said, for me personally I enjoy the process of the build and will keeping on doing so! Enjoy your videos and like this change up on your content.
Old geezer looking for a trike to haul his wife around on. Campgrounds - steep hills in my neighborhood - etc. - (rickshaw trike) . Any recommendations. Thanks for your time - bill
I have a friend who has a 30 year old ebike made by General Motors with acid batteries 🔋 he is looking to upgrade his battery to lithium batteries what do you suggest
Hey Johnny I am a one off person, and I be honest. I probably am going to very easy to please with little power and speed for what I NEED. I am a disabled veteran. I actually have a pride power chair. That has only been charged twice because I only need help getting around instead of walking. I have even a simple design. And would like to have you give me an estimate on one please. I am foreal and am not some person just fooling around. I have been interested in trying to build myself one. But I would rather trust someone who knows a lot more about everything electric that I don’t
Have you taken a look at Tern's vektron line in any videos? They're interesting folders I've been considering for commuting. Bit easier to take on a train.
Awesome video. What’s the most powerful bicycle mid-drive motor that I can can online right now? I was gonna order one but now I’m thinking about converting an old bike from my dad.
There are kits up to 5,000w that I know of. (Cyc) you can go higher but I wouldn’t. Put that amount of power on the wrong frame and it could be disastrous/deadly. Not in the good way 😀
I want to know what you think of the Aventon pace 500..I tried to do as much research..concidering I knew nothing about ebikes..I payed 1500. What's ur thoughts.
I almost bought a QuietKat Apex back in 2019, but I am glad I didn't, it was so overpriced. Since then they have upgraded the forks and the wheels but even so I am thinking 3400.00 tops. They are selling them for 5199.00 Ouch! Back in 2019 I bought a BikTrix Juggernaut HD instead for 2599.99 because at the time it was nearly the same bike.
The "bike" valuations are really all over the place (not really any other way to do it IMHO) but I think you nailed the general theme. These e-bikes are *massive* ripoffs most of the time. All these cool bikes and here I want to get a radrunner. Hahaha
The batteries are still a stupid price. The replacement price for my ebike battery (13 AH 36 V) when I bought it 10 years ago was 400 euros. It has scarcely fallen since. Meanwhile ev car battery prices have fallen over 80% So what’s keeping the price so high?
Just gonna make a point here. All your evaluations are missing one key component. Customer service. If u fuck up ur DIY after busting hours of your time making it, you are shit out of luck if u can't diagnose it. You buy from biktrix (I work for the r&d and production section) you are getting top notch help on your problems. Just food for thought ( I know I sound biased but you can look up the customer service ratings for each company yourself )
I definitely think customer service/warranty play a huge part in this for sure- however, for the purposes of this video, it is hard to really determine how good the customer service is for each bike. I've heard that Biktrix has great customer service, as opposed to Juiced, who you are basically SOL with- but I don't have enough experience with any of these bikes to talk about the warranty in detail.. I offer video support for $15 on any bike brand. Even/especially DIY builds 😀
You mention belt drive. I understand the appeal, but because they engage and disengage over a much larger area they do have more friction. You won't feel it as much as on a conventional bike, but you'll notice it in range. Same with just the bend in the belt. The entire width becomes like a link shim rather than a small contact patch on a chain. Finally, they are more prone to fouling off road or Winter riding in slush and such (they don't like sticks). They are more quiet and take less to maintain, but I think few, especially who would watch this channel, would be willing to pay more for less performance, just for convenience.
For person like me (all thumbs), how much will these built bikes cost if bought fully assemble from you? I suspect that you will charge some money for assembling them.
Anyone know if the Benno Boost 9D is worth the money? It’s 4,100 350w mid drive, 400wh power pack. Frame is unique, hydraulic brakes, anti theft lock seats
Johnny wondering if you have ever done a Bafang motor and batteries for a catrike expedition would be interested in getting prices for all materials to add 750 W motor to my bike would need a heavy duty battery because I do some long trips on bike trails
@@JohnnyNerdOutI went and rode the bike and really liked it. 5 year warranty and complete bike replacement if it's stolen using their bike lock. I'm doing research on what would be a comparable bike for less.
Great. You are very informative. Total like on this video. Will you or anyone reading please tell: If I install a 250w midrive on my mountain bike how much harder will I pedal if the drive is not engaged. And suppose the battery is removed. In other words: how much resistance does the drive have relative to the normal crank setup before conversion ?
Johnny get some used bike conversions in stock so I could pick one up impulsively. I wouldnt have even gone into local shops to look at them if i saw you had a stock of good used conversions. Found you the first night i started researching ebikes for our rv. Yep that means 10-30k in road and mountain bikes in stock. The trick is for you to make all the right desions first. Then i would just trust you that the bike cost x in parts and you just add a set $500 or whatever you need to on it. You will be waaaaaay more productive in your billing hours. Reach out to me if you would like some business mentoring. I'm sure many others here will help you and even help float a stock of bikes.
Really would like to hear what you have to say about the Dengfu E 06 I played 4800 Canadian dollars for it . And its stuck on a container ship that is anchored at port due to covvid.
@@knockhello2604 wtf, wtf? acoustic bike... not electric, like guitars. 2-7 grand... $2,000 to $7,000. $ = dollars; a unit of exchange in America. Central Massachusetts... buy an atlas (a book with lots of maps).
Another good video, Johnny, that unfortunately shows the ugly truth and reality. For example a Trek 970 from 1991 was USD 1'500,-. Today, 2021, it is still running and can be repaired. So, it was worth every penny. One can put a BBSHD on it and can change this motor to other bikes and so on. Just a very great system! Today e-bike manufacturers are mainly ripping off customers, because it's good business for them. And if the motor breaks down, maybe is hard to get a replacement motor, because specific motors do only fit in specific frames. We are always talking about saving resources and energies.... climate change and so on. Premade e-bikes can be such a waste! Such things shoukd be prohibited to produce. There should be standards in the industry that say that an e-bike must have for example the warranty to run at least 100'000 miles. Also it would be good to have e-bikes "Made in the USA" or at least frames and forks built in the USA. Frame & fork of the mentioned Trek 970 from 1991was "Made in the USA". An extremely well made and long-lasting bicycle. Something to really be proud of. The USA have to find back to this excellent work. BAFANG BBSHD is a premium Chinese product. The USA could produce it too. Would it be way more expensive? Maybe. But BAFANG BBS series were not invented and engineered in the USA. Something like this sould be possible to create in the USA. BOSCH is o.k., but they have this throw-away-one-way mentally and customers and dealers are not really allowed to work themselves on BOSCH motors. Something breaks and customers wait months on their e-bikes. BOSCH offers mostly weak performances, batteries with low capacities and only BOSCH and a few others can repair the motors and electronics. Very bad! Everything that goes against the idea of a good e-bike.This would never happen with BAFANG BBS/HD.
Ever since I made my first inquiry into ebikes, this outfit Cyrusher has been bombarding my inbox. Should I give them a look, or do they just have the world's biggest ebike advertising budget?
