How Nations Make Up National Identities | NYT - The Interpreter

Подписаться 4,6 млн

Просмотров 284 тыс.

50% 1

Nationality feels powerful, especially today. But the idea of identifying with millions of strangers just based on borders is relatively new. We explain why it was invented - and how it changed the world.
More from The New York Times Video:
Subscribe: bit.ly/U8Ys7n
Watch all of our videos here: nytimes.com/video
Facebook: / nytvideo
Twitter: / nytvideo
----------
Whether it's reporting on conflicts abroad and political divisions at home, or covering the latest style trends and scientific developments, New York Times video journalists provide a revealing and unforgettable view of the world. It's all the news that's fit to watch.

Опубликовано:

4 окт 2024

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 559

@ShadeShake 4 года назад

Just watching this because of online classes

@hannalunetta6766 3 года назад

same

@cuhrt1248 3 года назад

facts

@bagelcrumb8390 3 года назад

@Kariinschii ooooof lol, goodluckk!

@bagelcrumb8390 3 года назад

@Kariinschii niceeee! goodjobbb

@F776-b2s 3 года назад

same here

@sjenner76 6 лет назад

A few points of sharp critique. First, the nation state is not a failure. It’s a stunning success. It has resulted in more material prosperity and stability than anything tried before. Indeed, if it did not it would not have proliferated. The world today is richer and more peaceful than probably any other time in human history. The cited examples of the nation state as failure point to what happens when nation states become empires, and substitute nationalism for patriotism. As such the example demonstrates the horrors that are possible when nation states fail by failing to respect the integrity of the next nation state. Of course, Gengis Khan never had a nation state. And he butchered millions using swords and arrows. And medieval cities certainly were no picnic for Jews. Perhaps it’s less the nation state and more the grotesqueries of the human animal combined with the darker side of technology that explains what happened in the 20th Century. Second, the Soviet Union wasn’t a country. It was an empire. In ignoring the integrity of the nation states forced to be part of that monstrous enterprise, the USSR in fact proved the opposite of the core proposition advanced in this video. Third, the silly claim that America didn’t quite work ... cut to video of silly people ... there argument done is hardly compelling. The United States is the only nation thus far that has posited a workable model for large scale and sustained immigration. Even at our worst, we’re far more diverse than any other major modern country. As of 2010, the U.S. was 12.9 percent foreign born. It may be claimed that Australia and Canada are higher. But when U.K. (and indeed, other Western European) nationals are excluded, their numbers are no better than the U.S. and are likely lower. Just as importantly, the combined populations of Australia and Canada are less than 20 percent that of the U.S., meaning that much lower overall immigration numbers have far more impact statistically. The U.S. is a true success on the concept of open liberal society. It isn’t perfect. But, if perfection is the requirement, then we might as well just trash the whole universe. None of it’s perfect.

@dohacheese 6 лет назад

Here Here! I might add that this essay oversimplifies the construction of national identity to an absurd level. It may be wise for these folks to carefully read or re-read The Nation and Its Fragments by Partha Chatterjee and Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson. No self-respecting academic looks at nation-building as this sort of farcical-nefarious plot to hurt people or to destroy the world: the creation of national identity stemmed from quite organic and modernizing effects, print capitalism being chief among them. But more importantly, national myths often stem from already nascent traditions within the community. There is little evidence to support such a vapid statement like "the nation was made up" when the reality is far more expansive and organic. Most nations derive their identity from a vast archive of texts, documents, stories, and such. And while this archive may have been updated or renovated from time to time, it is still very much a real thing. A modern Spaniard will still refer to Rodrigo El Cid as one of the first great Spaniards, even though El Cid lived nearly 300 years before the first inklings of modern Spain in 1492. Even in nations like Mexico where the government and national identity are fairly young, the people draw upon cultures, histories, languages, and myths that are thousands of years old in order to imagine themselves as something truly unique and beautiful to the world. This video makes a viewer believe that all of this nation building is at best silly and at worst nefarious--honestly a rather lazy reading of cultural studies. Does forming a national identity have its drawbacks? Absolutely. But what these people are implying is that we must neuter ourselves from history in order to forge a new history devoid of those drawbacks. Newsflash: people across vast expanses of history have already tried doing that, and it never really worked out the way they intended. I applaud the effort that the NYT is trying to inform people about national identity, but a 5 minute video laden with ideology and resentment of the nation is not the way to go about doing that. Ok, I will shut up now.

@sjenner76 6 лет назад

Rex Wilkins, couldn’t agree more. Great and informative points. I would also add the idea of subsidiarity, that matters should be handled at the lowest level of governance capable of handling them. The nation-state constitutes the critical organizing factor against which such efforts can be meaningfully measured. When the nation-state is disregarded, it renders local organizing customs and approaches mute, as their sole measure is the state that is the aggregate combined expression of what local means. Thus all your points.

@johnalexander651 6 лет назад

Canada specifically would still have a higher immigration rate than America if you don't count British people and people from the US. Most of our immigrants are from Chinese, the Indian subcontinent (Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka), the Philippines and the Middle East.

@sjenner76 6 лет назад

John Alexander, good to know. Thanks for that. And good on Canada.

@rubbishrabble 6 лет назад

Australia & Canada wouldn't have a higher immigration rate than the US without the Brits. 4%-5% of MA and the Northernmost New England states of ME, NH, and VT identified as Quebecois in 1880. Forgetful of the Canadian-US historical immigration disparity? Besides CA & TX 37% Hispanic/Latino 28/70 million. faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/readings/leaving.htm

@IssaMorphic 6 лет назад

Y'all need to credit Benedict Anderson

@justinyang21114798 4 года назад

"[the nation] is an imagined political community-- and imagined as both inherently limited and sovereign."

@nicholasmckenna8614 3 года назад

Agreed ^^

@radiantsquare007jrdeluxe9 Год назад

no they need to credit your mom

@kiwiopklompen 5 месяцев назад

Yeah - google imagined communities. Or also see Ernest Gellner. Brilliant academics and writers - they both explain nation building.

@1337BananaL33TVostok 6 лет назад

I used be very patriotic of my country until i became an adult. I then began to realize how hollow this feeling was, hollow as a rotten tree. You can conform with the masses or live as individual, but either way you are on your own and the only thing you can physically identify with is family.

@BigBoss-sm9xj 3 года назад

I think you need both, so it’s a balance

@gray3589 Год назад

Bro, tell that to me. I live in Europe, but I can't take the people of this country. They're absolutely trash, and they embrace their wrongdoings. It's super disgusting.

@kirilmkdsrb Год назад

True bro, me at first earlier identify more as Macedonian but now as a Serb, firstly I went through Macedonia and I didn't find myself there, then I belive that when I go to Serbia that I will find myself more but at the end I realise that the only place I'm home is only the place where I'm born and where my relatives and people from the begging are. Also I belive in these myths like religion and nationalism but when I grow up I realised that they only do bad things and just divide people. Greatings to you bro ❤️

@SwedishTards 6 лет назад

Open borders for Israel

@alexduke1950 6 лет назад

Latinos for open borders for israel. Diversity is our strength

@natefoxman 6 лет назад

Israel requires strong borders to prevent it from becoming another shithole country in the Middle East overrun with fanatical Islamists.

@nantzstein3311 6 лет назад

LoNaSwe DEUS VULT

@awyattman 6 лет назад

LoNaSwe Israel must be culturally enriched

@marwan6006 6 лет назад

if thats how you want to destroy israel then thats how

@pedroroque8681 2 года назад

The world is run on stories. Identities, entertainment, social media, mainstream media, cinema, radio, music, politics, sales and business - All based on storytelling

@duesen00 3 года назад

No matter what, I will always love my countries. I had the pleasure to grow up within two cultures. I'd say that I have another view on nationality than other people do. I respect all cultures and dont feel that my countries are superior in any way. But I still love my homes and always will.

@corcaighogormghus4618 3 года назад

Facts. The national identity came before the nation . This video is nonsense. Explain why so many Irish died in the 16th-20th centuries for a nation which did not yet exist

@kiwiopklompen 5 месяцев назад

It isn’t nonsense. History scholarship (and anthropology) shows how nations are built over shared narratives, beliefs and values. They formally were tribes and ‘peoples’ now they are associated almost solely with a portion of land.

@Gilotopia 6 лет назад

I like what you presented but you position yourself as anti nationalist drawing ire and opposition. The birth of nations was a good thing. It united people and in that unity they found the strength to bring our world to new heights. Think of what we can accomplish by uniting nations instead of dismantling them.

@loganhurley5590 6 лет назад

Gilotopia I don't think being skeptical of the ideas of nations means dismantling countries, per se. Another way to think of it is to ask, "What ought to make people have self esteem?" In a nationalistic framework, the answer inevitably has to include "Well, I'm French," or "I'm an American, and we're the greatest country on Earth," or "I'm Chinese and we're strong." It's easy to see why this is problematic. It involves fiction, as the video pointed out. It also allows us to try to claim the virtues of the nation we're a part of as our own. This causes us to stop needing to advance on a personal level. We can be personally ignorant, deceitful, wicked, proud, and crude so long as we believe our nation is good. That's bad, because it distracts us from things that we can help to things that we don't really control, which produces anger, paranoia, and general unpleasantness. Not only that, but it often causes us to view the actions of our nation uncritically, because to say our nation did a bad thing would feel like saying that we ourselves did a bad thing. When our nation's virtue is our only virtue, we can't stand for it to be besmirched. It also means that we feel the need to denigrate all other groups because a group being better than my group means that those individuals are all better than me individually, if I think in terms of nations. Worse yet, it causes us to view those inside our nation who experience it very differently as the enemy. This is not only the root of fascism, but it promotes a kind of reflexivity in national action that only reifies current problems instead of finding solutions to those problems. Yes, the rise of nations certainly consolidated human creative and labor potential to reach new heights. With that efficiency, we almost immediately began two world wars, nearly destroyed the world with nuclear weapons, and have committed atrocities like the purge of the Native Americans, the Holocaust, and the imposed famines of the USSR, among countless others. That isn't to say that nationalism has had no positive impact whatsoever. Rather, I'd had contend that nation's have, from an objective stand point, done more harm than good overall. At the very least, you'd have to agree that even if you believe they're mostly good, they also have an ambiguous-at-best legacy.

@goryounkoyounian9164 6 лет назад

I don't think he's arguing, though, that national identity should be completely dispensed. After all, national identity was an inevitable result of urbanization, industrialization, and economic modernization. For a government to be able to conduct policy, it needs to foster some kind of national identity among the population. His point of view seems to be rather that there's a need for a new national identity that is based more on values than allegedly intrinsic features like ethnicity and religion.

@phm0750 6 лет назад

David Williams What you wrote made no sense. If they‘d actually be in favor of dismantling nation states, the result wouldn’t be open borders, it’d no borders. Also, things like elections wouldn’t exist, so there’s no point in doing this for new voters.

@nnahomm 6 лет назад

imagine how many wars we couldve avoided if we didnt have any nations

@Gilotopia 6 лет назад

nnahomm imagine all the wars that would have happened without nations. Imagine wars between Texas and California. Imagine wars between Bavarians and Saxons. Nations were the best peacemaker we could have come up with at the time.

@NoGodsNoMasters1885 6 лет назад

A neoliberal critic might argue that large, multinational corporate interests have replaced both the power of religion and government. I wonder what will take their place.

@sakurasam420 6 лет назад

This comment section is a real treat

@mattyhartley9079 6 лет назад

Nations are the biggest success in uniting a group of people together, more so than religion and bigger than any tribe, clan ever can be. I agree some nations are completely made up and usually lead to it not working or a war until military force or pure exhaustion from conflict forces it to make or break such as Yugoslavia breaking up...BUT a lot of nations have formed more naturally, where a shared struggle and history, sense of commonality makes it one big community. Shared language, values, ethnicity (sometimes quite loosely). We have yet to make anything else work better, the USA is doing well as a "anyone can become american" type nation and i hope it works out, but it will be severely tested as a nation over the next century...im optimistic though!

@МатвейВолтов Год назад

No one could say it better, nations were made up when we look at France in 1800 or Rodesia for ex. but now myth became reality, I do share a lot of values and other cultural things with my countriemen and I'd love to see our society develop without falling apart, and the nation(not the country) unites us

@epaburke 6 лет назад

Nation-states are not new. You can read about them in history going back more than 2,000 years. Even modern Western European nations are generally considered to have origins that go back about 1,000 years. Germany and Italy are the most notable exceptions to this-- Germany and Italy unified as nations in the late 19th century. The problems the narrator cites--dictatorship, racism, and genocide--were not caused by the German people defining themselves as citizens of a nation. They were caused by their refusal to do this. They wanted to continue to define themselves racially--to remain tribal--which won't really work in any large modern state, as none are homgeneous enough for that. Defining oneself as a citizen of a nation, and a member of the society that makes up that nation, is the basis for civilization and the rule of law. Deciding to give it up, in favor of defining oneself only as a member of a religion, ethnic, professional or political group would take us back thousands of years, not forward.

@boio_ Год назад

Modern Nationalism is new, the existential roots that make up national identity stretch deep into history

@giwrgosn8413 2 месяца назад

Greece preserved its cities that were also states, so they had control, on the contrary, empires needed a model for the world to believe

@vehement-critic_q8957 6 лет назад

Nationality and nationalism in some states is a way to liberate people from dictator rulers and fascist regimes. Nationality and nationalism is a preservation of people's heritage in a certain region. Nationality and nationalism is not a myth, but the birth of a new united identity that reflects the sovereign of a particular community.

@vehement-critic_q8957 6 лет назад

Dave Kumar So if nationalsim doesn't work well with you in India or Italy, it's not a deductive argument to generalise on all states.

@correctionguy7632 6 лет назад

Karol Karpiński thats the lazyest definition of fascism as of far

@antoonluyckx1430 Месяц назад

It is at least as much a way for fascist and dictatorial regimes (in general) to rise to power. There are several definitions and misconceptions of fascism, but no fascist regime has ever ruled without being nationalist at its core.

@kaiserdamasus1978 3 года назад

A lot of lies in this video. Nationalism is the answer, not globalism.

@meerpirat508 3 года назад

Some way, but he's referring way too much to the USA. People like the Germans, poles etc had a national identity since ages already. The Germans identify themselves as Germans since someone united the Germanic tribes under the name Germania.

@mekingtiger9095 2 года назад

How about we reject both of them? Nationalism has always been toxic for insiders just as much as it has been for outsiders. It's just a mini globalism in my eyes.

@MrMobe127 6 лет назад

1:11 never heard of a language called Fleming. Do you mean Flemish?! 4:15 come on the Romans have been integrating people from other regions ages ago!

@omerkaya545 3 года назад

4:15 Switzerland did the same thing since 1291

@golubhimself 6 лет назад

You do realize that of the countries you showed as an example, the de facto citizens of the respective countries have something in common? France is a Catholic country based on Enlightenment principles, which population is genetically Gaulish and Frankish, with some Northern populations identifying as Norman (Nordic) or Breton (but they don't consider themselves French as-is). The United Kingdom of Great is a country with it's own Church which serves solely it's own country, and is founded by two Germanic tribes (The Angles and thr Saxon) which fused into one tribe or tribal group, the Anglo-Saxons. Scots and other celtic peoples like Welsh and Manx don't even consider themselves purely British because Britain is runned by an English aristocracy line, but the people who do care about nationality and aren't English reject the British crown Whereas India is a conglomerate of multiple peoples and it's quite artificial, but the fact is that they are all united by Hindu religion and common culture, with some minorities like Sikhs, who are just overly spiritualistic to care about nationality but don't identify as Indian but Sikh, and Indian Muslims who identify as themselves, that is Pakistanis. Just because the U.S. is a conglomerate of incoherently intermixed cultures doesn't mean the whole world is. Even the United States could be divided into as much as 11 cultural entities, and 50 legislative ones. They're not called the United STATES for nothing, as other than the international level, all of the states enjoy a high degree of autonomy, so much so each has it's own army, known as the National Guard.

@Colin-ut6cm 3 года назад

Everything made sense until the part where you talked about india. Everything you spoke about is objectively false in the indian part but everything is right.

@HemantKumar-id3jg 8 месяцев назад

Sikhs don't identify as Indian 😂😂and Muslims identify as themselves that is Pakistanis 💀. Dude, just don't ever talk about India. 😂😂 And India is not "artificial" when British arrived on it's shores India had existed for 6 centuries (3 under mughals and 3 under the Delhi sultanate). That's longer than most European nation states.

@jameshiler7830 6 лет назад

The best thing about this video was all the footnotes.

@hiitsme4877 Год назад

Yet alone knowing this fact does make one feel different. Unfortunately, it does not change anything. However, this is a great video to demonstrate what's the most powerful and destructive weapon of humanity. Thank you for this video I will always keep it in mind.

@corcaighogormghus4618 3 года назад

What nonsense. national identity came before the nation not the other way around

@joshuawaring4180 3 года назад

Many historians would disagree with you.

@josephang9927 6 лет назад

Nations states are news, but states are not. City states are very old. Empires are nothing new. A nation is a balance between these two. Perfect? Not at all, but globalism is not different from imperialism, and it always ends the same way: 200 years and the empire falls apart, divided in many countries.

@danielgorzel7222 6 лет назад

Life and career Max Fisher was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Russian Jewish immigrant parents and grew up in Salem, Ohio EVERYTHING IS CLEAR NOW.

@danielgorzel7222 6 лет назад

0:40,it's him.

@alexduke1950 6 лет назад

oy vey, shut id down....

@alexduke1950 6 лет назад

Easy, it's because Jews aren't white... they only claim to be it when fits their interests...

@danielgorzel7222 6 лет назад

Written by neo nazis because it says if someone is jew or not? lol

@AliTheHighest 6 лет назад

twoja stara oooooh oooh, I found the neo-Nazi! Do I get a prize or something?

@thribhuc2827 Год назад

Europeans do nationalism against immigrants, minorities, etc. Nationalism in post-colonial societies pits native against colonizer.

@Tremoloist 5 месяцев назад

Then let's take France and the UK responsible for their colonial past. Why should Norway, Sweden, Poland, Ireland, Finland, Denmark have to take these aliens?

@MuhammadShafiqShafiqx 6 лет назад

In my opinion,national identity is based on how powerful your country. I’ve seen most of world power such as the U.S and the U.K feel proud to their countries whereas the developing nations such as Malaysia and Indonesia, they’re less proud of their nations because they aren’t first world. But we still need more research about this ideology:)

@andikawardhana9616 6 лет назад

Muhammad Shafiq not really nationalism isn't about the rich or the level of the state it's about our love and loyalty over our country how bad it is.

@n25783 3 года назад

No, no, no, not at all!! I am from Bangladesh and my country is nowhere near as developed nor powerful as other countries, and we are WAAAYY more patriotic than US or UK. You just don't know because when we're patriotic we're speaking bengali. You think US and UK are patriotic because they speak English and their patriotic messages don't get lost in translation like ours do.

@pyrofut7105 2 года назад

I think there is not just one answer like you commented. To start, whether people feel connected to their country has to do with the history. Some countries only recently erupted out of different nations. These nations will keep feeling connected to their region more, rather than the new country. A factor that helps keeping a country divided is language. Another one is economic division or wealth. When the situation is equal throughout the country (all people speak the same primary language, the economy flourishes, there is hardly any economic division), people from one region will not need to see the rest of their country as "them" but rather as "one of us"

@zhutwo 2 года назад

A healthy dose of national shame can do wonders in humbling a national ego.

@giwrgosn8413 2 месяца назад

@@n25783 the answer was given by the Greek Isocrates, the ethnic group includes common traditions, common religious and common ancestry, if any of these are absent then you lose balance and there is division

@amatya.rakshasa 3 года назад

Can you guys please suggest some books, papers , and other sources which explore these ideas? Thank you!

@emilylouise05 2 года назад

hi, this is pretty late but i’m currently writing an essay on this for my degree so can definitely give some suggestions!! here are some important works on this idea: imagined communities - Benedict anderson inventing traditions - Eric Hobsbawm Myths and history in the construction of national identity - Stefan Berger the nation and its fragments - Partha Chatterjee The age of empire - eric hobsbawm ch6

@amatya.rakshasa 2 года назад

@@emilylouise05 Thanks for the reading list Emily!! I’d gotten hold of Hobsbawm’s “On Nationalism”. I’ll go look up the rest you’ve recommended. Thank you. What’s your essay topic?

@30secondsflat Год назад

The works of Benedict Anderson are extremely relevant (“Imagined Communities”)

@TheKukun123 6 лет назад

It's human nature to flock with the similar kind. And if we've moved ahead from "race/religion" identity into a country specific "national" identity .. it's better, a step ahead honestly. Sure, there's a long way ahead when we look at ourselves just as Earthlings. But that day is yet to come, until then cherish your "national" roots

@zhutwo 2 года назад

It would sure be easier if we had people from other planets to help level up our tribalism one order of magnitude higher.

@kosatochca 9 месяцев назад

⁠⁠@@zhutwo The discovery of a “nefarious” alien life on a planet orbiting Proxima b would surely be a seminal step towards finally establishing global peace

@_ata_3 8 месяцев назад

Why not cherish our earthling roots?

@max05003 6 лет назад

I agree with everything this video says 'xcept one. It is implied that diversification in race, religion or culture is enough to avoid nationalism. The question is, is there any way to fight against it ?

@zackariyafarah7630 2 года назад

There is! But it depends....

@laurisolups6563 6 лет назад

I think the issue is identifying not with values, but with names. Step one - we associate good qualities with nationality X (ours, obviously), and inferior qualities with nationality Y. Then we proceed to get emotional highs of validation whenever our nationality is praised, or some other is denigrated. But, if we skip that arbitrary step and solely identify with values (like kindness, wisdom, strength, compassion), we can't go wrong.

@_ata_3 8 месяцев назад

And how values match nationalities? Do you think kindness is exclusive to one nationality only?

@ObliviouslyAware 6 лет назад

I'm a black transsexual muslim woman with a violent history, how can I immigrate to the holy land of Israel back to where ALL of our tribes came from?

@Earth098 6 лет назад

National Identity has nothing to do with racism. In fact, it enables different races to form a common identity. For example, one might pride oneself as 'American', instead of, white, black, brown, etc. In that sense it's a positive thing. But, at the same time we need to understand it's we are all global citizens.

@bob15479 6 лет назад

Yeah, no one said national identity included race except the dude in the movie

@vietmypham9019 6 лет назад

Anyone know the name of a painting at 02:31 ? I like it :))

@wilberthidalgo_3176 4 года назад

Liberty leading the people , by Delacroix

@abdullahibrahim8938 5 месяцев назад

But is it really a problem to make up a national identity? I think connecting people together by a shared national identity (even if it's fake) is better than connecting them by race, religion, political ideologies...etc The American national identity is amazing (I'm not an American but the way), because it's based on values that anyone can hold thus allowing new immigrants to be assimilated and be proud of being Americans only by holding these values. whereas some nations like Japan made up its national identity around being ethnically Japanese which made it difficult to them to assimilate new immigrants, and this is why Japan is now dying (shrinking economy and population) and their GDP per capita is around half that of the US after it was higher than the US 30 years ago

@souvikdeb2523 6 лет назад

Loved this video. I sort of had a similar theory in my mind but this video encapsulated the ideas wonderfully!

@justiniani3585 8 дней назад

That is all a bunch of lies. If language is what ties countries together then why is Germany and Austria different? Why aren't all the Spanish speaking countries merged in one? And on the flipside why are Belgium, India and South Africa each unified countries given the diversity of languages within them? National/racial identity has been around forever. The ancient greeks, despite being organized in city-states believed they all had a common ancestor named "Hellen" from which the word "Hellenes" comes from. For a long time the Jews had no state but they shared an identity strongly enough to build a country from scratch.

@yoavyoav9722 6 лет назад

why are there so many comments about jews and Israel? there wasn't a single word said about either of them. these are just pure hate comments.

@flemishnationalist-prayfor9809 2 года назад

The journalist is Jewish.

@pietroercolano7130 2 года назад

I do not agree with the identification of nationalism (0.44 - 0,48) with totalitarianism and genocide: nazism and communism were ideologies based on race and class, both rather different ideas from that of nation, which had existed before and continued to exist after their demise. You can still be an Aryan without being german, while, tragically, many jews who felt to culturally belong and had fought in the German army during WWI were later perceived as 'biologically' different.

@samrezvani3299 2 года назад

Nazism was Nationalist since there idea of a nation was different to other countries, Nazis believed that a nation is a racial community (volksgemeinschaft), this view was completely different to the nationalist movements everywhere else. for example in fascist Italy if you where a Jewish Italian you could join the fascist party, there were also Libyan Fascists too, because for them the nation was any community with a common ideal and myth.

@johnnyhaigs243 4 года назад

Max Fisher, are you of Ashkenazi descent?

@flemishnationalist-prayfor9809 2 года назад

He indeed looks Jewish...

@TheKGiannis 6 лет назад

Well in Greece even in the 5th- 4th there were cries for unification of all Greeks. So I guess in my country national identity isn't something new.

@corcaighogormghus4618 3 года назад

This video is nonsense dont worry about it

@blackcitroenlove 3 года назад

It's a primitive concept best left back then. A cosmopolitan attitude, being a citizen of the world, is better.

@emilianomerkaj9059 2 года назад

It´s funny seeing comments like this because if you could just time travel in the 5th - 4th century the people that populated greece wouldn´t even understand your language

@vagp928 2 года назад

@@emilianomerkaj9059 Actually no...... Ancient Greek had many dialects but the most widely used the Attic dialect which is later used with micro adjustments as Koine Greek or Biblical Greek so yes a somewhat trained Greek would be able to hold a conversation with an ancient Greek

@giwrgosn8413 2 месяца назад

@@emilianomerkaj9059 Greek is Greek and the letters are Greek since then until today Albania has the Latin alphabet but believe me it once used Greek

@Tonixxy 6 лет назад

Then Black, Asian, Jewiah identity also do ot exist. But guess what, even the Jews and Egyptians and Mongols and Greeks from thousands of years ago had pretty defined self identity.

@brainxtc2171 6 лет назад

Tonixxy yes. They don’t exist.

@josephang9927 6 лет назад

If countries are not important, then borders are not important. If borders are not important, then laws are not important. If laws are not important then democracy is not important, so there is no point on voting. Therefore, if nations are stupid, so is democracy and so is going to the polls.

@omerkaya545 3 года назад

You had racism before the nation state too, the vid is misleading lol

@paulaharrisbaca4851 4 месяца назад

I watched as a whole huge mass of shoppers, me included, at the Tanforan Park Mall, around a stereo and music shop was showing off their big screen TV by playing Rocky IV. I can't believe only men watched Rocky IV. Men do like to fight to protect their women.

@samshane9135 6 лет назад

This sound like a high school essay. Oversimplified points and the lack of evidence.

@ALurkingGrue 6 лет назад

I was alive when Rocky IV came out and is also male and to this day have never seen it. (Or the original for that matter)

@cuhrt1248 3 года назад

Why you gotta dog on everything man just let me love my country in peace.

@corcaighogormghus4618 3 года назад

Ikr.The national identity came before the nation . This video is nonsense. Explain why so many Irish died in the 16th-20th centuries for a nation which did not yet exist

@Ian-jg6pj 5 месяцев назад

Now do one on Israel.

@ozgeuslu2003 5 лет назад

Where can I find the mentioned study concerning American's attitudes towards movies?

@nickbrowning3270 6 лет назад

Max Fisher- born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Russian Jewish immigrant parents and grew up in Salem, Ohio. :^D

@correctionguy7632 6 лет назад

Imagine my shock

@flaviaocopeiro 5 лет назад

so?

@giwrgosn8413 2 месяца назад

the answer was given by the Greek Isocrates, the ethnic group includes common traditions, common religious and common ancestry, if any of these are absent then you lose balance and there is division

@lucas4177 3 года назад

For that women I guess that she also has to leave america since they all speak English wrong

@nantzstein3311 6 лет назад

*Isntreal*

@desp8161 6 лет назад

Has never heard of ethnicity in his life

@QwertySystemNL 6 лет назад

National identity isn't made up. Although you might think for example that The Netherlands and Germany are very similar, and although your genetical, ethnic or social researches may all conclude that they are indeed very similar, there's still a sensible, very real tension that can be felt once one visits either one of these countries and proclaims that "The Germans and The Dutch are the same!". They are not that different on paper, in numbers, on a graph, but a huge part of nationality, often overlooked, is the feelings that are evoked by it in it's carriers.

@loganhurley5590 6 лет назад

Thomas White I think that's what they're saying, though. There's no reason for that animosity to exist except that the two have been fictionalized into discrete nations.

@phm0750 6 лет назад

If it’s a feeling of nationality, it isn’t real, because feelings can change within different environments.

@alexg4711 6 лет назад

i would say that all the greater german people (dutch, austrians, german swiss, southern tyroliens, the germans of now and maybe even the denes) should be united in one country

@ConstantinKlose-sj4mb 6 лет назад

alexg4711 why not all the humans? I'm german and I don't like other germans more than any other humans

@alexg4711 6 лет назад

because it is extremly unefficent. first of all you cant just mix people with diffrent cultures, not even regarding ethnicity, without major conflicts. it is easy to unite the german people as they are genetcly and culturly similair. you can make the case for countries like netherlands and danemark to not unite there as they have a somewhat diffrent language. you just have to look at the us. when whites were a supermajority that country was "the dream". a place were you could go and achive what you want, as long as you tried hard enough. now that they are about 55% whites the systems became less efficent as they were made for just whites and have to be altered for many diffrent races, cultures and religions. than you also have the fighting between the groups. the outcomes of groups will never be the same to do genetic and external factors and so there will always be fighting between the groups as every group will think they are being treated unfair (eg: whites get taxed more than blacks, their tax money goes to blacks -> they think that is unfaire, blacks have a lower average iq and therefore earn less money -> they think that is unfaire, these are just examples, there are many problems with groups, not even starting with jews and mexicans) it is just the easier solution to stay with homogenius countries. there is not much reward for too much cost. maybe in 1000 years or even 100 years we can unite the human people effiently. but today is defently not that day and it will just lead to more harm. doesnt really matter what people you like more.

@robertortiz-wilson1588 Год назад

That has to be some of the most modern-day reductionist framing I've ever heard. National law, values, celebrations, heroes, pain, and victory are real. People came together and made up the game of baseball. That doesn't mean the game or the concept of the game isn't real. National myths also all have starting points in one way or another, so that's another falsehood presented here.

@giwrgosn8413 2 месяца назад

Greece preserved its cities that were also states, so they had control, on the contrary, empires needed a model for the world to believe

@sudiptaranjanpatra1876 6 лет назад

Well friends when you become too smart you often tend to make mistakes and those who made this video had terribly failed.

@auroraorha 3 года назад

Yeah, India is a failed country for sure.

@sudiptaranjanpatra1876 3 года назад

@@auroraorha LOL replying to a 2 year old comment shows you have nothing to do and your intellect which is non existent.

@XavierKatzone 6 лет назад

Wow - now there is some real horsesh*t! Well, let's go back to regional warring tribes, then - eh? Shed this veneer of civility? Seems to work so well for Africa and the Middle East, right? This is a prime example of why I'd NEVER PAY for the NYTs!

@sohambanerjee99 2 года назад

Neither is ultra Nationalism good nor is Elon Musk !

@jiboyoseo3128 2 года назад

loved this!

@xXxSkyViperxXx 6 лет назад

i wonder why they picked france, britain, and india

@vikasmehta3420 6 лет назад

you may call nationality a myth but it binds a lot of scattered individuals together towards a common goal and gives them purpose. however we should keep in mind that our humanity does not get lost in keeping up with nationality. long live the humanity.but i am proud of my nationality. anyways why does not newyork times help people commit to sense of humanity i see a lot of twitter hash tag this hash tag that like feminism this ism that ism what about #humanism.

@deader6 6 лет назад

Also stop being buzzfeed, it wont end well for the NYT

@miriamdiedrich7524 6 лет назад

>If you don't speak English, and you don't contribute, get out! Nothing actually wrong with this. Nationality is a complex issue, that much is true. It's also true, though, that people in a certain nation have things in common and that nationalism can be a good thing - and by that I mean civic nationalism. Civic nationalism is a great idea, and racism doesn't take away from that. In fact, civic and ethnic nationalism are two different things. Ethnic nationalism isn't a weakness of civic nationalism. Also, SJW "patriotism" to look morally cute isn't all there is to patriotism. What about the French WWII resistance, or European immigration-reducing politics, or post-colonialism Namibians creating wealth for the sake of Namibians?

@classicmovielover2 6 лет назад

the melting pot is a lie

@socialistsolidarity 6 лет назад

Very well explained. We share the same world! Rather than working together to create a better world for all not just for humans we have decided to create barriers and borders is just that.

@umairhusain8174 3 года назад

True what you are saying but this is the process to future. Just like our world started with clans (smaller groups), we coalesce to bigger groups (religions) to national identities now. Soon the earth will be united, but not in our lifetimes though. 🙂

@dustypaladin6923 6 лет назад

so this national culture and identity isnt formed from people living in a a certain way and a certain place for a long time, passing on their way of life. good to know, mr fisher, i'll tell my friends what you've said. i feel so much smarter now. open borders for isreal, its not really a nation anyway.

@sorzin2289 6 лет назад

Isn't a clan just a really large family.

@giwrgosn8413 2 месяца назад

the answer was given by the Greek Isocrates, the ethnic group includes common traditions, common religious and common ancestry, if any of these are absent then you lose balance and there is division

@TheMasterWizar 6 лет назад

You just made the best case for ethnic Nationalism ever. Thanks guys!

@rockrl98 5 лет назад

Nationality is so new, yeah exactly, we lived under imperialism we fought it, we kinda not really won it, and now you wanna return us to that degenerative state of tyranny and terror...What happens to our nation, happens to our people/land, you walk the land and you feel it,... Minorities and migrants, if people feel that way, it's likely that they happened, when they were ruled by third party... Countries are much needed, just like any other, removing everything and turning the world into massive anarchy would be catastrophical, there needs to be order, and borders on many different levels, borders don't mean segregation, just organisation, just imagine not having folders on your computer, with all the files in one directory, productivity would plunge and people would lead meaningless lifes...

@DwAboutItManFr 3 года назад

Clans, religion, language, race, culture, sexuality, social class or family and any and all descriptivez also do not mean anything, our identity is never connected to anything, i am always i and thou are always thou. We should crush these stupid ideas, it MATTERS.

@haydensmith1691 6 лет назад

I've noticed they invoke several images of Napoleon when specifically referencing French national identity. Could someone please enlighten me?

@josephang9927 6 лет назад

Don't identify with strangers as a nation (clans and gangs are the natural state of humans)... except for refugees and immigrants that has nothing to do with you.

@josephang9927 6 лет назад

Beautiful words, but please be reasonable about this. I understand your point, it it thought in virtually all schools, so please consider mine, at least. There is no way a human mind could love everyone as they love their partner, family, friends, etc. There is no way you could, as a human, even know the name of all 7 billion humans on earth. No way. It is inhumane and unnatural to ask someone to love the world as their own people (globalism), also insane. Therefore, as humans we have to discriminate in a way or another: who we prefer to pass time with? what country we choose to live, die, vote in? Can we really choose that? -- Everyone must be discriminatory to simply be human, because there is no way to love everyone, there is no way to tolerate everyone. There will never be enough welcome immigrants and refugees to ever help a significant portion of people without sacrificing something equally important... you will only move poverty to other place. People do not change mind or values by simply moving some miles from their homes. You are not helping anyone without sacrificing others or their rights, because those people often do not believe in the same human rights and progress of the West. That does not make them "inferior", but also that does not make them suitable or compatible with western lifestyle. They want just to survive, and naturally they move to rich countries for that reason, but that does not mean they will ever agree with western ideas, specially if we say that "integration" is just discrimination, as some people say.

@metatron4890 6 лет назад

Take your internationalism elsewhere.

@Red-nt3ut 6 лет назад

*Insert meta comment about the people who made this video: being part of a large publication (With vast amounts of resources and professionals) yet display a clear bias and little understanding of Nationalism; a subject many Historians have dedicated years of study only to be condensed and twisted into a quick 5 minute video that misinforms and misleads the viewer about the Nationalism* Thanks New York Times, you don't mind explaining why you keep treating these complex subject matters with little caution? Also, its just about time these videos come with sources.

@guiller2371 5 лет назад

You missing the point of United States not being America as the new world, but a fragment of it. Even when the idea of national Americans started first in United States, the concept spanded to all America. It's not exactly an identity, but an ideal of free nations what United American countries and separated them from the European control. However, it seems many countries had gone back in different proportions to the idea of nationality based on identity rather than ideals. Nationality based on identity is racism, nationality based on ideals is a republic. America is meant to follow principles and ideals instead of racial identity since America is founded from many nations, races and languages.

@technodestination4763 6 лет назад

Just wondering how India fits in any of the definition here?? It has tons of culture,cusinie,caste,colour,creed and yet almost everyone feel proud when some indian achieve something. India has all religions of the world except those shinto, 22 official language and total 772 languages spoken by atleast 0.1 million people. Weird

@bhanupratap1063 3 года назад

Civilizational State.

@HeadhuntexGamer 2 года назад

Lol

@boio_ Год назад

Bless India, love from Chile 🇨🇱❤🇮🇳

@impwendel 6 лет назад

What about Israel?

@alenngk 6 лет назад

You can turn anything to bad. NI is part of the synergy and that is the way the we works.

@KyleNewton-zo1wy Год назад

(FACTS OVA FEELINGS). The NATION Behaves Well if it Treats it's NATURAL RESOURCES az ASSETS which it Must Turn Ova to the Next GENERATION Increased and Not Imparied in Value

@JS-ob5rn 6 лет назад

Open ALL borders in the world now

@daniely8350 4 года назад

@@ulviqitliyev1456 Thank you. I'm so sick of this "open borders" nonsense.

@narendrapanse7844 6 лет назад

My dear - The current system of nation states is known as the Westphalian architecture derived from the Peace of Westphalia, 1648. The principles of nation states, sovereignty, balance of power, et al arrived from there (ref. Kissinger). it was a European solution to an European problem. One of the points was to prevent hegemony of any one nation on continental Europe and try and maintain a balance-of-power amongst various states. Since Europe went on the rule most of the world they applied it globally as well. The video above is just ideological propaganda with blatant disregard for history and it's implications.

@reststop4834 3 года назад

What is this propaganda

@corcaighogormghus4618 3 года назад

Ikr

@reststop4834 3 года назад

@@corcaighogormghus4618 My teachers forcing us to use this video as a source for our current assignment. Can you believe it ?

@corcaighogormghus4618 3 года назад

@@reststop4834 Really? Whats the assignment on?!?!? What nonsense

@nikrose5229 Год назад

Nationalism and Patriotism is a good thing. I am so tired of Western media trying to tell us we can't feel love or pride for our nation and culture. Just because you are boring and self hating doesn't mean we all have to be.

@hamletprinceofdenmark5896 6 лет назад

open borders for everyone, that totally wont destroy small ethnic groups and cultures that have existed for tens of thousands of years

@ladycatfish2896 6 лет назад

#OpenBordersForIsrael

@majicaldonut 6 лет назад

Have you ever heard of the Romans?

@deader6 6 лет назад

Almost there.....Civic nationality doesn't make much sense, nationality based on culture and ethnicity does make sense.

@ShnoogleMan 6 лет назад

National identity shouldn't be based on race. It should be built on the preservation of culture and values. If a group of people came from another country and tried to overturn our system and values that would be a problem, but if someone comes in peace, is willing to accept the values of liberal democracy, and respects the history of the country, it doesn't matter what their race, religion, or ethnicity is. I would rather have a nonviolent group of Muslim migrants willing to accept the values and ideals of liberal democracy than white nationalists opposed to our values of freedom from some country in Europe.

@alexandervonsolo5172 4 года назад

A nation has laws, a nation has a culture, a nation has borders, a nation has people whom on some level are apart of that nation, and a nation has one or two languages (usually one) which also bind the people's communication with each other such as in business, private life, & or government. But also to add to this, greater nations, such as America have a foundation based on an idea. Ours is liberty, and justice for all the citizenry the best that any human society can practice it although never perfect. The French Revolution brought the world anarchy, hate, violence, oppression, tyranny, ensalvement, and misery but the American one did none of those things. A nation whom is a free Constitutional Republic, especially the American nation, is the best of them all.

@EVG_Channel 3 года назад

Kind of missed the whole point of this video it seems

@boio_ Год назад

@@kompo1012 It's almost as existing in a certain place with certain fellows across generations develops an identity, say, where are most sports teams developed anyway? It only proves the naturality of caring those you share a history and a tomorrow with

@nicholasballard2403 6 лет назад

I really expected him to have something new and insightful to say...

@mariabeusterien5629 6 лет назад

hmm not Eurocentric at all. Nations (and nationalism) being imposed upon formen colonies is so important to this discussion. Wish it had been mentioned

@f8ofk8 6 лет назад

Congrats NYT. You still have more subs than Faux News.

@Mohamed-jb9yx 6 лет назад

They becoming Jewish propaganda really

@proudkuffar9890 6 лет назад

Any channel that spew hatred and propaganda against US have a lots of subscribers. That's a well known fact.

@lucazza3159 6 лет назад

You guys keep confusing patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism unites people, you talk about the birthing of nations of multiple ethnicities like a problem. Anyone can be American, that's patriotism. I'm white and I'm American, that's nationalism. You can't fuse them together and say it's nationalism, especially since the UN definition of a nation is an ethnic group (we Americans use it wrong).

@Wimpiethe3 6 лет назад

National identity stems back thousands of years. You think the ancient greek states did not have 'national' identity? They competed with eachother specificly because of it. Borders are ancient. That they expand beyond one's own small world like a town does not mean there is no broader national identity. At the end of the day people will still understand to what group they belong to at a certain point in time. S It's both human nature to identify with the tribe and collectively look out for it's interests. Also there is no reason why a state with several languages and races cannot have one national identity to wich they all identify. There will just be subcultures. All this video did was rewriting the definition in such a way that it only includes recent examples. Revisionism. Now i do agree that a national identity get's harder to hold on to or define when a country get's bigger. So more subcultures will exist. Essentially people throw up borders like city, province (dialect) etc. If anything that suggests a global identity and thus a global 'state' is impossible. And as such is an argument Against globalism. 'Migrants that don't fit the national myth? Full stop. You are speaking about national identity, Not about the culture. These things are different. Take two neighbouring european countries, both have a different subculture/nationality but are both part of western culture. Now put someone in not from the countries with western culture and ofcourse people want them to adapt, they are wildly different. This is not just nationality, this is culture. This is the same bogus as giving foreigners a nationality and pretending they are from that country. No. Perhaps these people should look into American history and check wheter immigration from non western countries was the innitial aim. (hint; it was not).

@RudieObias 6 лет назад

If you want to learn more about national identity, watch STARSHIP TROOPERS. No, seriously! That movie is full of national identity problems are caught up in war and pride, and how individuals are less important than the state.

@kailoa1498 6 лет назад

Its about time we accept the reality that we are different. Some how our differences should not be a wall but a bridge.

@m.s.r.s-9495 6 лет назад

IQ difference should be a wall

@-delilahlin-1598 2 года назад

Let’s go to Mars

@goldknox9629 2 года назад

National - Nation - Natal - Birth. A nation isn't people in a border, it's the same family/tribe/ethnicity. And yes historically Nations are formed around individual ethnicities in spite of your misunderstanding and silly inaccurate map you displayed.

@sy-en 6 лет назад

funny enough the map shown at least 4 French and UK countries can come within Indian border but it shown comparable. Alsob why don't you show USA map it's States are also divided as any other federation

@correctionguy7632 6 лет назад

How do we know national identity was made up and not some we organically developed to the changes noted in the video (+some others probably).

@hitormisshuh 2 года назад

nationalism basically roots to wanting a better home. this place is your home, and you have come to love your home. you of course, want the best quality for your home that is why you fight for it, and stand up for it. I'm very patriotic/nationalistic because I want my home to be a better place for other people who also live in it. it's simple really. nationalism is love for your country/home. if you don't love your country, then you probably don't think of that place as your home. even if you do, you probably don't like it.