“You'll laugh at your fears when you find out who you are……” (Continue down for QnA)… Q1. I like to correct one misinterpretation in my part regarding Frieza’s scaling. I said King Kai “retconned” his statement that only through Frieza’s final form is he universal instead of his second form. However, after rereading his statement, King Kai was saying in a general manner that he possesses the power to destroy the universe. He never specifically claimed that he can in his second form. It was due to the visual imagery that I mistakenly assumed King kai perhaps thought 2nd Form Frieza is Universal. Hence, nothing was retconned, and King Kai was consistent with his belief, and I apologize for any confusion in my part. Q2. Second misinterpretation I should have corrected was that the anime never directly has Future Gohan claim he trained for a year. However, given that both anime and manga timeline still have Future Trunks travel from Age 784 back to Age 764, where he kills mecha Frieza, you could still imply that Anime Future Gohan still trained for a year, since his death occurred in Age 780 but obviously trains with Future Trunks prior to his final battle. Meaning Anime Future Gohan needing to train at all clearly implies Future Gohan was weaker initially but eventually reached the Android level. Even so, the fact he rivaled Future 17’s power, who’s likely superior to Future 18, like how Present 17 is confirmed superior to his sister, still validates the idea of Future Gohan being on par with their level, either before or after his last year of training. Again, a mistake on my part and hopefully satisfying to anyone who wanted a better argument to explain my position. Q3. Why did you lowballed the distance of Namek From Earth? A: Much like the topic regarding Pikkon and Goku traveling across Other World to Hell, the number of different methods to calc said distance can go on forever. Same thing related to Goku dodging a meteor while moving on a ludicrous fast Ship. I don’t want to force an objective claim that Namek MUST be a specific distance from Earth. The Roleplaying adventure guidebook claims Goku travelled across “half” the universe, and other statements like King kai saying Namek is outside his North Quadrant jurisdiction, etc. There is A LOT of tiny specifics that can drastically change how fast Goku and Gohan’s speed can reach, but I mainly want to summarize my point that during this era, they are MFTL+ no matter what. I could have deep dived even further on the topic but considering I brought up King Kai unable to keep up with SSj Goku’s speed, it was a topic that could have dragged the video far longer than it already is. I’ll go over my personal take another time but for the sake of Future Gohan’s scaling, just know that there is plenty room for interpretation for that one feat, so lowballing it was enough to get my point across. Q4. Was there a specific reason you related Future Gohan’s scaling to Future Trunks as well as the Present Androids and Present Z-Fighters? A: Yes. Some of yall may be surprised but there are people a small group of people who believed the Present Androids are not actually stronger than their future Counterparts. Also, people believe that just cuz Future trunks did just as poorly against the androids, means Future Gohan is also weaker. Finally, due to the lack of emphasis on the noticeable power gap during the early Android Saga run, compared to people easily recognizing the levels during the Namek/Frieza arc or especially the Levels of Cell’s transformations, I wanted to hammer where Future Gohan would be placed in comparison. By emphasizing that Future Gohan’s combat experience and mental state made him do better than Future Trunks. As well as proving that having infinite stamina to your stats in vs battles can make a huge difference and that raw power is not ALWAYS the only way you can win a fight. Plus, the Android Saga era of power scaling is often overlooked and somewhat underestimated in terms of growth for the characters at the time. I could have gone more in depth with the android scaling, Like Cell also criticizing Trunks’ usage of Grade 3, however, since this video is obviously focusing on Future Gohan’s abilities, I thought I provided more than enough to at least make people reconsider how one should evaluate the power level for the android saga in a cohesive satisfying manner. Q5. Why did you poke fun of using the Roleplaying guidebooks? A: It’s just me being sarcastic. Obviously, I don’t mind using them myself as well, just that, fans too often OVER rely or prioritize a niche source and somewhat over exaggerate what might be stated, when not all sources is always accurate or inaccurate. It’s a case-by-case situation, but I thought for the fun of it, I include it as a fun fact rather than a primary argument. Q6. Why did you include an outlier section? A: Given the nature of Power scaling and really, narrative interpretation in general, you can unironically put ANY character outerversal or boundless if you can argue a certain way and take a lot of evidence out of context. While again, I’m fine with such interpretations, I mainly want to establish a consistent midball narrative scaling, rather than by default prioritize on a massive, highballed scaling. Especially considering how convoluted Heroes already is with its dimension cosmology, my videos will take hours to break down every single counterargument. So no need to get mad cuz the outlier scaling is not what my actual opinions are. It’s just another way to evaluate the characters to the upmost extreme based on the amount of evidence provided that can support such opinions. Q7. Why the Metal Gear Opening? A: Cuz it’s cool….and cuz shut up. It’s my Video and I can do whatever I want. Lol Show some love to the artists and other buddies down in the video description.
Do you think the reason Krillian was able to push back against Goku's Kamehameha was also because by choosing to face him directly instead of running away he had an increase in Courage or Yuki
weirdly enough, yes. I'm sure to some, it's a bit of a iffy writing style, but really, most franchises rely on emotional states to buff or nerf a character's ability. Naruto has done it before, Star Wars, Bleach, Etc. now yes, Goku was still holding back but the fact Krillin when properly focused can hold his own a bit only enforces Toriyama's point as to how Ki correlate to the user's mindset. Heck, MUI is the literal manifestation of what Toriyama was going for. Great example you pointed out.
A few things to add that could further hype up Gohan that lead me to believe (in the absolute best case scenario) he'd at least have a chance at killing (post 600K people) Imperfect Cell or Android 16 (with a strong enough blast at best.) 1. Supernova scaling It’s possible to scales the Supernova that destroyed Planet Vegeta was at a power level of before 24,000 since the Raditz’s old model scouter Bulma had broke when Goku used Kaioken x3 to jump to a power level of 24,000+ on Earth and the same happened to Cui’s and Didoria’s when Vegeta did the same on Namek. The only issue with this might be that it’s the speed of the power increase that makes the scouters malfunction and not the actual level of power since Zarbon’s scouter was able to tell Vegeta’s power level. Scouters likely had to be turned on to use, find and fight Bardock (unless he made his presence that well known in what I assume is not-too-deep-yet space.) Also, Raditz is shocked by Goku and Piccolo concentrating their ki into a single point of their bodies and amplifying it for moment to create a stronger blast which could imply that wasn’t the norm for Saiyans. This could imply that Bardock, who was close to a power level of 10,000 and likely received a zenkai boost was had his blast fired at his maximum power level. Going by how it took Goku a 1.33x boost in power to overpower Vegeta in their beam struggle, at a bare minimum Frieza’s Supernova could’ve even been had a power level of 13,333 or less if you don’t think Bardock got a zenkai boost for whatever reason. I do ignore the whole “it takes 200-300 Kiri to destroy a planet” and “V-Jump making 1 Kiri = 50,000 BP” thing though. I think V-Jump likely just wanted to make a reference to Goku’s SSJ power level back on Namek. 2. Potential Unlocked Gohan scaling Krillin's power shot to 13,000 after having his potential unlocked, but by the time they got to Frieza, it was about 75,000. This implies that it may not have been only Gohan's zenkai boost that got him up to 200K but potentially him growing into his own power. It's more of a video game concept initially, though DBS does use that "syncing with the power" type thing for the U6 fused Namekians. 3. Garlic Jr. scaling It’s actually stated by the narrator that Garlic Jr. would was their greatest challenge yet. If this is referring to the trio alone it could mean Garlic Jr. was potentially stronger than 50% Frieza. Or just be more challenging because of his immortality. Goku did believe it was plausible for Vegeta or Piccolo to have defeated Frieza (and potentially King Cold) through other means despite them believing it was over for them. 4. Android 18 scaling I still think it's likely 18 was holding back against Vegeta. Especially if you think she tanked his blast and that Kami-fused Piccolo rivaled either of the Androids according to 16 but not Imperfect Cell who "didn't have a chance" against Piccolo but may have also surpassed Vegeta. Also if you think Krillin turning his ki into discs provides attack power over 10x stronger than him allowing him to cut through 2nd Form Frieza, then Trunks' blade is pretty much also tanked. Also it is stated in Daizenshuu 7 that the future androids are for some reason that's not elaborated on while than manga gives us the idea that the Androids weren't even using half their power and Trunks not know about it. So technically we don't even know if (especially in the manga) Gohan had reach 50% of their strength the last time they met and if they even need to use their full power to kill Future Gohan in the manga, which was implicitly just 17 alone. So Future Gohan might have crossed an even greater gap in power in terms of the anime. 5. Trunks scaling Even more impressive, while Trunks in the manga was estimated by Gohan to surpass him in a of months, in the anime he speculated to do so in years. Although Bulma really can't sense ki and therefore tell how strong Trunks should even be after the time skip, her estimation might be more in the context of the anime where his power is more inflated. 6. Blasts scaling It's confirmed by Piccolo that Imperfect Cell could only do a Kamehameha at a "Raditz Arc" which is why Cell could do nothing to him with him initially fear a blast at the same output as Goku's current "Android Arc" one. Daizenshuu 7 also states Cell's Special Beam Cannon had the same relative power it did as the first one used against Raditz. This implies that with the power of their blast does increase with training. If Future Gohan had around 13 years of training (give or take a year given manga inconsistencies and guidebooks statements because Toriyama had to do time travel) then it's possible his blast are potentially way stronger than those in the main timeline.
Underrated? People overrate him because they want present timeline version to be like him, and I'm here thinking they want present timeline gohan to be a veteran with PTSD, survivor's guilt, and being forced to fight a battle he literally cannot win? He isn't underrated. He's overrated
@@lapplandkun9273 1. I meant in terms of power. 2. I don’t where you go that idea of the fanbase but I think you might be exaggerating a little but that’s just my opinion.
@@Enerjjak I'm referring to the forums and the YT fanbase of DB. They keep saying teen gohan/future gohan is their favorite versions of gohan because it's his peak, and it's obnoxious to hear them literally repeat garbage information that has been stated for years because Buu saga gohan wanted a peaceful life yet didn't train, but they blame him being the great saiyaman for that when goku and vegeta stated gohan wasn't as strong because of his lack of training and not because of his studies or the great saiyaman
@@jschannel6319 I probably can guess that it's probably due to his personality. Because I just felt like a rehash to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan from the cell saga. Thank the Lord that Super fix that.
@@mugenuchiha5335 that’s exactly why. And SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan is actually right behind Ultimate Gohan as my least favorite Gohan. The best thing he contributed IMO, is one of the best songs in all of DB: Unmei no Hi.
@@jschannel6319 that's why I said thank God super fix this problem at least ultimate Gohan has more sense in Dragon Ball Super, if I have to talk about my most favorite so far it's probably Beast Gohan.
its important to know that the bardock movie and trunks movie are technically "anime specials" and are thus anime canon. toriyama even included bardock in his manga due to the bardock movie.
Nice video, the info and scaling made sense, the editing was great, this was great, keep it up, and if you can, can you please do a bardock powerscale?
As for why anime future gohan can make sense being stronger than trunks when it was stated he was on pqr with gohan besides being inexperienced is that gohan might have ended up getting a rage boost or something and started showing his latent power in that fight Also i do have using anime future gohan probably vaguely above kamicollo but below super Saiyan grade 2 vegeta and trunks
when it comes to extra materials that bring back future Gohan for fanservice, always remember, future Gohan after dieing would be allowed to train in the afterlife the same as Goku, but this time with the ability to train with partners and teachers unlike when he was struggling to survive in the apocalypse. This means that anytime mainline Gohan scales up after an afternoon of training, future Gohan who never would have decided to stop training in the first place due to the life he lived by all means should be just as strong or stronger than mainline Gohan. They could even break out future Gohan with a "mastered" beast form and it wouldn't even feel like it doesn't make sense.
@@lapplandkun9273 that's what I said...for fanservice....in extra media....like how Xeno time patrol Trunks still has a home timeline only Super Trunks timeline was erased, or the GT version where there's still a parallel timeline for Trunks because they never had an omniking to erase the timeline.
Manga: somewhere between Yardrat Goku and 3-year timeskip Goku. Probably Android saga Piccolo level. Anime: =/> Kamiccolo. Thats how strong I think Future Gohan is.
Goku had teleportation, he could have scaped the androids if felt he couldnt win to later train and come to figt them again another day. So is not accurate to say Goku would have died, Gohan and Trunks didnt have teleportation and still managed to scape the androids one time and another
6:55 I wouldn't rely on the text that much, it claims that Garlic Junior was in the Dead Zone for ten years. Does Gohan look ten years older between the movie and the GJ saga to you?
Ten years is different for each planets. Saiyans also literally age younger than humans, or apparently toriyama's interviews and vegeta's statements about them remaining in their primes wouldn't matter
Honestly, I like him, but he's definitely overrated and overhyped by the fanbase. This guy was a war veteran with PTSD and survivor's guilt, and they want present timeline gohan to be like that?
16:17 it is pretty unecessary to argue this for the anime as the anime timeline version of Gohan who is just a lot stronger and cooler than his manga counterpart,also Bulma's and Trunk's statements about his strengh are also not acurate as the last time this Gohan went all out is on thier first encounter with the android's were he almost defeated 17 with barely no effort by himself until 18 joined the fight from what we see and this statement also loses a lot of points specially for Bulma who can't sense ki and while Trunks can he was knocked out before he could even sense gohan fightting the android's,Trunks is also really unreliable for the future android's scalling too as they never fought him at full power but to kill gohan in a fight it was required for both to be at full power where Gohan was mostly dominating until fatigue and the energy drain of super saiyan killed him *there is also guides statements that the gap between both future and present androids are small or a moderate diference as stated by daizenshuu 7 meaning a fight between both versions comes down to mostly strategy something the future android's had shown to be more deadly and capable of going for quick killing blows while the present android's during the android/cell saga barely show any sign of having a equal or better teamwork*
@@lordlittletoeq8537uh.... Krillin, yamcha, and hell even chaotzu can 😭 Krillin by the end of the namek saga had surpassed every ginyu force member except ginyu Yamcha was fodderizing recoome Tien is stronger than yamcha Chaotzu beat guldo There's also the fact the humans still came for the androids and were prepared to fight them even though they knew they could one shot super saiyans 💀. Possibly implying the humans at that point in the story had surpassed at least mecha frieza or even dare I say, yadrat ssj goku
The hybrids do NOT know how to train properly. It's like irl. If you train under a professional, he will draw out most if not all of your potential because he knows best how to do it. You on the other hand can't and will take more than triple the amount of time
Unless you do some meta-scaling with DBZ and Dr.slump type stuff, probably not. Only through a lot of convoluted composite canon scaling can you imply that to be the case.
Definitely. Doesn't matter how niche, obscure, or absurd the series is, I will do a scaling video or at least do some overview of it. I'm down for any suggestions, look forward to more goofy content from me. 👍
scale characters from: one piece, naruto, bleach, jjk, fairy tail, and black clover. like for example make a video showing how strong shanks from one piece is currently from all we've seen, you could even use film red since he's very important in that.@@Numbers2133
Bro is stronger than a universal frieza as it was stated that frieza is capable of destroying the living universe in his second form and its infinite so frieza is universal and his third form have the power of higher dimension
to be fair in the manga canon trunks encounter would likely be against the androids using half their power since he is on the level of future gohan. which explains why he keeps saying the future timeline androids were weaker than the main timelines androids since like gohan trunks could have never fought future androids at full strength and survived.
